dmandy:
You know that you can go to God direct (which of course through Jesus), why do you ask your pastor to pray for you about something? The prayer of the righteous availeth much and if she is heaven with Jesus who save her I can ask her to help me in the prayers....just like I can ask you or my pastor. You see...its all scriptural.

BTW I don't go to my pastor to pray to God for me.

There's diff BTW meeting ur pastor or elders to anoint you with oil for healing and praying to God for maybe a car or something.

dmandy:


I think this is jealousy...you asked and was not granted but she did and you are sorry.

Jesus turned and said to them, "Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me; weep for yourselves and for your children.

Look at the mirror and see whom to be sorry for. Jealousy and envy kills.

I am the way, the truth , and the light, no one comes to the Father except through me.....

Jeromejnr:


Still didn't answer what I asked.

I was talking about praying to Mary and not God answering your prayers.

You said before you Catholics believe in other traditions. So I want to know where those traditions are? Where are the written? Where did you get them from?. That's all.

I never made mention of any traditions... all I have said to you I say from the scriptures which is the word of God.

What you call other traditions are word of God taught by word of mouth and not a magical wand that stems from nowhere. Listen to what St. paul said... So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter. 2Thess 2:15.

So they are the sacred scriptures taught by word of mouth. Don't force your own words on me. I never said anything about tradition.

dmandy:


I never made mention of any traditions... all I have said to you I say from the scriptures which is the word of God.

What you call other traditions are word of God taught by word of mouth and not a magical wand that stems from nowhere. Listen to what St. paul said... So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter. 2Thess 2:15.

So they are the sacred scriptures taught by word of mouth. Don't force your own words on me. I never said anything about tradition.

Okay,

So the teaching by word of mouth on praying to Mary who said it?

Was it Paul, or John or one of your Popes?

BOWOTO:
I am the way, the truth , and the light, no one comes to the Father except through me.....

No one. Jesus is the only way.... but someone can lead me to Jesus. Can't you lead a brother to Jesus? Does that create another way? Mary leads me to Jesus who is the only way and no other. She led the disciples to Jesus at the wedding at Cana. She led John the baptist (in the womb) to Jesus... he can lead me to him.

She is born again and received the holy spirit.... and spoke in tongues.... and she prays... why wont she be able to lead me to Jesus.

Jeromejnr:


Okay,

So the teaching by word of mouth on praying to Mary who said it?

Was it Paul, or John or one of your Popes?

Praying to Mary and the saints is in the scriptures... Paul admonished us to pray for one another right? I can pray (beg) my pastor to pray for me, as member of the body of Christ. If you believe that the saints in heaven prays that shouldn't be a problem (they are among the one another) we are one body of Christ (unless you want to count the saints in heaven out of the body of Christ which is not scriptural). Remember the 24 elders bowing and saints in heaven taking our prayers in form of incense to God. It is in the bible its not any vague tradition or whatever.

Be guided.

Jeromejnr:


Nothing scriptural about that.

It didn't say the prayer of a righteous man will avail more if we pray to Mary to help us. I still need where the dogma was found.

Well to you Mary is not righteous and her prayer does not avail anything... but the bible teaches otherwise. She was made righteous by grace.... and she explains my soul magnifies the lord my saviour. And do you think that soul has stopped magnifying the lord? Unless you believe that souls die.

dmandy:


Praying to Mary and the saints is in the scriptures... Paul admonished us to pray for one another right? I can pray (beg) my pastor to pray for me, as member of the body of Christ. If you believe that the saints in heaven prays that shouldn't be a problem (they are among the one another) we are one body of Christ (unless you want to count the saints in heaven out of the body of Christ which is not scriptural). Remember the 24 elders bowing and saints in heaven taking our prayers in form of incense to God. It is in the bible its not any vague tradition or whatever.

Be guided.

So how do you want me to take you seriously when you just said killing an ant is a sin.

I understand it is hard to accept change. But deep down look into your heart, you know you just misconstrued those scriptures. And they don't mean what you said they mean.

Its not scripture, you just believe it because you heard it right from when you were young. So if the Pope wakes up tomorrow and says you can pry to Mohammed, that is a word from a mouth right and you must obey.

I mean because of the articles. I see nowadays of the Pope or cardinal saying some funny tins.

dmandy:


Well to you Mary is not righteous and her prayer does not avail anything... but the bible teaches otherwise. She was made righteous by grace.... and she explains my soul magnifies the lord my saviour. And do you think that soul has stopped magnifying the lord? Unless you believe that souls die.

So your own soul is not magnifying the Lord?

Abeg free Mary alone o. She is busy enjoying heaven.

Jeromejnr:


BTW I don't go to my pastor to pray to God for me.

There's diff BTW meeting ur pastor or elders to anoint you with oil for healing and praying to God for maybe a car or something.

Your cup of tea.. I do go to my pastor to pray for me to God... I call my mother at home on phone to pray for me. I believe God will answer them as well.

You can forget going to your pastor to anoint you pray to God and anoint yourself... I bet you if you believe you will get your annointing.

It is not against the scripture, you chose not to. And you want me to choose the same before you can agree with me that we are worship the same one and true God who gave us Jesus Christ. No na.

Jeromejnr:


So your own soul is not magnifying the Lord?

Abeg free Mary alone o. She is busy enjoying heaven.

She is complaining to you that I am disturbing her? Well she said all generations will continue to call her blessed. If don't want to worry her don't get jealous if you see someone who wants to. Christ said she should take me as a son if she complains of my worry... I will report her to Jesus.

dmandy:


Your cup of tea.. I do go to my pastor to pray for me to God... I call my mother at home on phone to pray for me. I believe God will answer them as well.

You can forget going to your pastor to anoint you pray to God and anoint yourself... I bet you if you believe you will get your annointing.

It is not against the scripture, you chose not to. And you want me to choose the same before you can agree with me that we are worship the same one and true God who gave us Jesus Christ. No na.

I don't even go to a pastor for any of those because I do them myself. I have my own faith.
Stay away from doctrines of men my friend, and don't be deceived.

After all this talk, none of you has even provided a scripture to back up ur claim.

Jeromejnr:


So how do you want me to take you seriously when you just said killing an ant is a sin.

I understand it is hard to accept change. But deep down look into your heart, you know you just misconstrued those scriptures. And they don't mean what you said they mean.

Its not scripture, you just believe it because you heard it right from when you were young. So if the Pope wakes up tomorrow and says you can pry to Mohammed, that is a word from a mouth right and you must obey.

I mean because of the articles. I see nowadays of the Pope or cardinal saying some funny tins.

And there you judge... don't. If pope tells me to pray to Mohammed, I won't okay because I don't know him. Nothing of him is written in the bible. But I think he existed like all of us...if someone believes he is a prophet of God, why will I fight? Are there no prophets of God in Nigeria today nothing of whom was written in the bible. I won't judge. I only know myself and those whom the bible said worked with God and were called by God.

Well as for the killing issue... I think you are the one who is adding to the word of God. The bible says though shall not kill.... and to kill is to take away life? Does ant have life? Was it created by God? Did you give it the life you take away?

You went back there because you want me to leave Mary to rejoice in heaven and I said no where she is I will be...her people will be my people and her God will be my God.

dmandy:


And there you judge... don't. If pope tells me to pray to Mohammed, I won't okay because I don't know him. Nothing of him is written in the bible. But I think he existed like all of us...if someone believes he is a prophet of God, why will I fight? Are there no prophets of God in Nigeria today nothing of whom was written in the bible. I won't judge. I only know myself and those whom the bible said worked with God and were called by God.

Well as for the killing issue... I think you are the one who is adding to the word of God. The bible says though shall not kill.... and to kill is to take away life? Does ant have life? Was it created by God? Did you give it the life you take away?

You went back there because you want me to leave Mary to rejoice in heaven and I said no where she is I will be...her people will be my people and her God will be my God.

Wonders shall never end. How did you even know Mohammed is not mentioned in the scriptures.

You see the circle goes round.

This your ant issue get as e be. Lol.

Okay let's leave dat side. Do you speak in tongues?

Jeromejnr:


I don't even go to a pastor for any of those because I do them myself. I have my own faith.
Stay away from doctrines of men my friend, and don't be deceived.

After all this talk, none of you has even provided a scripture to back up ur claim.

Did God command you not to go to your pastor? Or did you choose to limit yourself..that is the problem when you limit yourself you want others to join you by fire by force nnah nawa o.

They bible say pray for one another.. if you don't pray for somebody i don't think you have committed a sin but God knows anyway... but nobody forced you not to. It is your choice. If you don't want anybody to pray for you accept it as your choice. And don't see anyone who does as commit crime against heaven and earth. God bless you for keeping it civil

dmandy:


Did God command you not to go to your pastor? Or did you choose to limit yourself..that is the problem when you limit yourself you want others to join you by fire by force nnah nawa o.

They bible say pray for one another.. if you don't pray for somebody i don't think you have committed a sin but God knows anyway... but nobody forced you not to. It is your choice. If you don't want anybody to pray for you accept it as your choice. And don't see anyone who does as commit crime against heaven and earth. God bless you for keeping it civil

I still want proof tho. On saints in heaven interceeding.

Jeromejnr:




Wonders shall never end. How did you even know Mohammed is not mentioned in the scriptures.

You see the circle goes round.

This your ant issue get as e be. Lol.

Okay let's leave dat side. Do you speak in tongues?

Well if he is in the bible the least you can do is show me.. that I may believe. My ant issue.... God did not create them for you to be killing them ruthlessly unless you want to eat them or they pose a danger. If God did not wipe them with the flood...why murder them in cold blood for no reason.

I speak in tongues... yes.

dmandy:


Well if he is in the bible the least you can do is show me.. that I may believe. My ant issue.... God did not create them for you to be killing them ruthlessly unless you want to eat them or they pose a danger. If God did not wipe them with the flood...why murder them in cold blood for no reason.

I speak in tongues... yes.

That's good. So why do you speak in toungues?

Jeromejnr:


I still want proof tho. On saints in heaven interceeding.

Well these are saints in heaven which carried the prayers of God's people including me...,... And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God's people.


Now this is St. Paul praying to God for someones soul who has died.......the Lord grant to him to find mercy from the Lord on that day-- and you know very well what services he rendered at Ephesus.

If they died in Christ.. they are in heaven... and the are the body of christ including me and you if you believe.... so pray for one another.

Jeromejnr:


That's good. So why do you speak in toungues?

I do because I have the holy spirit of God in me. It feels good...real good. I imagine what it could have felt like when she was overshadowed by the holy spirit. God loved her indeed... May He forbid that I hate her whom He has shown great love and mercy.

dmandy:


No one. Jesus is the only way.... but someone can lead me to Jesus. Can't you lead a brother to Jesus? Does that create another way? Mary leads me to Jesus who is the only way and no other. She led the disciples to Jesus at the wedding at Cana. She led John the baptist (in the womb) to Jesus... he can lead me to him.

She is born again and received the holy spirit.... and spoke in tongues.... and she prays... why wont she be able to lead me to Jesus.

I can lead a brother to Jesus, but he doesn't have to worship me, Ya'll worship Mary, you even pray to her statue, seems idolatry to me, I know My God does not like idol worshipers.

The thing Jeromejnr is,

I am not forcing you to pray to Mary or your pastor.... but accept that we are one body of Christ. You dont belong to Paul and I to Appollos no. You chose not to...fine. Don't mark me off as being against the scriptures as clearly God allows me to pray for others and for others to pray for me. As we have seen in the scriptures that it is a commandment that we should take her as our mother and take her home. You can leave her... I won't force you. But I heeded that command.

Thanks and God bless you... If you still think I err pray to God to confirm if I truely do. Then come back to tell me.

Good night and have a sound night rest.

BTW Olaadegbu, thanks for asking? She hears my prayers and direct them to the appropriate chambers which is the one and only way Jesus (whom she bore and who saved her).

Peace!!!

BOWOTO:
I can lead a brother to Jesus, but he doesn't have to worship me, Ya'll worship Mary, you even pray to her statue, seems idolatry to me, I know My God does not like idol worshipers.

Fine I can ask her to pray me, but I shouldn't worship her. God bless you. I promise you I won't worship her and you know what I have never ever done so. I worship the Lord my saviour who is also her saviour. I won't worhip a creature, she is a creature (handmaid of the lord...she called herself).

But do I look at her picture and statue? Yes I do. What am I doing when I am looking at it? I am mediating about her humility, about her obedience and total submission to the will of God. I am mediating about her raising Jesus, searching for Him, feeding Him, and even asking Him to help those who have no wine. I wonder if I could attain the level when God's angel can address me as full of grace. I imagine how best I can take her as mother as Jesus commanded us at the cross.

You see I don't worship her I worship God who made her so beautiful not forgetting to call her blessed as she said 'henceforth all generations shall call me blessed".

BOWOTO:
I am sorry for you

Thank you.. Shalom

dmandy:
The thing Jeromejnr is,

I am not forcing you to pray to Mary or your pastor.... but accept that we are one body of Christ. You dont belong to Paul and I to Appollos no. You chose not to...fine. Don't mark me off as being against the scriptures as clearly God allows me to pray for others and for others to pray for me. As we have seen in the scriptures that it is a commandment that we should take her as our mother and take her home. You can leave her... I won't force you. But I heeded that command.

Thanks and God bless you... If you still think I err pray to God to confirm if I truely do. Then come back to tell me.

Good night and have a sound night rest.

BTW Olaadegbu, thanks for asking? She hears my prayers and direct them to the appropriate chambers which is the one and only way Jesus (whom she bore and who saved her).

Peace!!!

So what if I just prayed and God told me you are wrong? How will you know if I heard from God or not? Because I know you will still find something else to say.

Lol

But anyways, Shalom.

Jeromejnr:


You try so hard to turn the scriptures to your favor.

So part of the tradition they passed down is praying to Mary? I have not still seen your proofs O.

Because even the Traditions you talked about by speech was still based on the scriptures.

Okay, lets go to traditions actually passed down. Men Like Josephus, Clement, and some disciples of John e.t.c wrote down what they were taught from the Apostles.

I have gone through some of them and no where do any of them say Pray to the saints.

I am still waiting for your proofs o. And what Mary has done for you.

So lets think logically here now:

If God said when Husband and Wife are in strife that even if they pray He wont hear. He also said it to the unforgiven person" So if that same person turns to Mary,Is it Mary that will now hear? And If she hears what will she do.

Now again, With the millions of Catholics on the earth today all praying at the same time to Mary who is in heaven trying to enjoy her Mansion, How will she handle all those billions of prayers Is she Omniscient?

Does she have the complex mind and ability that God has to exist in all places at once and do a million things at once? You know sometimes, all people need to do is think.

You remind me of your brother up there that said killing an ant is a sin. So that means Jesus committed sin by killing a fish to eat. SMH.

1. I didn't turn anything. I gave you the verse as St. Paul wrote it. Or you don't believe the Bible anymore?

2. Here are some Church Fathers who spoke about Marian intercession:


"For as Eve was seduced by the word of an angel to flee from God, having rebelled against His Word, so Mary by the word of an angel received the glad tidings that she would bear God by obeying his Word. The former was seduced to disobey God, but the latter was persuaded to obey God, so that the Virgin Mary might become the advocate of the virgin Eve. As the human race was subjected to death through [the act of] a virgin, so it was saved by a virgin." Irenaeus, Against Heresies, V:19,1 (A.D. 180).

"Under your mercy we take refuge, O Mother of God. Do not reject our supplications in necessity, but deliver us from danger,[O you] alone pure and alone blessed." Sub Tuum Praesidium, From Rylands Papyrus, Egypt (3rd century).

"Let, then, the life of Mary be as it were virginity itself, set forth in a likeness, from which, as from a mirror, the appearance of chastity and the form of virtue is reflected.... Nor would I hesitate to admit you to the altars of God, whose souls I would without hesitation call altars, on which Christ is daily offered for the redemption of the body. For if the virgin's body be a temple of God, what is her soul, which, the ashes, as it were, of the body being shaken off, once more uncovered by the hand of the Eternal Priest, exhales the vapor of the divine fire. Blessed virgins, who emit a fragrance through divine grace as gardens do through flowers, temples through religion, altars through the priest." Ambrose, On Virginity II:6,18 (A.D. 378).

"Recalling these and other circumstances and imploring the Virgin Mary to bring assistance, since she, too, was a virgin and had been in danger, she entrusted herself to the remedy of fasting and sleeping on the ground." Gregory of Nazianzen, Oration 24:11 (A.D. 379).

"For it is said that he [Gregory the Wonderworker] heard the one who had appeared in womanly form exhorting John the Evangelist to explain to the young man the mystery of the true faith. John, in his turn, declared that he was completely willing to please the Mother of the Lord even in this matter and this was the one thing closest to his heart. And so the discussion coming to a close, and after they had made it quite clear and precise for him, the two disappeared from his sight." Gregory of Nyssa, On Gregory the WonderWorker (A.D. 380).

3. Marian intercession is directed to and subject to God.

4. Mary can handle all the prayers because she is now like God, as the Bible says.

5. Can you now admit that the Bible never said Saints in heaven can't hear prayers? Or show me where it says so.

Jeromejnr:


Nooo! you didnt say anything here na.

You asked that guy to show you scripture where they said don't pray to Mary.
And I said show us where it said don't pray to Satan.

It's all about common sense.

The bible tells me that satan is my adversary...so I don't pray to him.

Moreover, I'm not the one who believes that everything in Christianity must be explicitly stated in the bible, that's you and your like. So you have no business asking me that.

Jeromejnr:


You should also pray to me because Jesus said to that "catholic" woman in the bible:

"More blessed are those....."

I am sure by now you know that scripture.

So therefore adore me and express your devotion to me like I saw one of your fellows do to Mary.

I would pray to you if I were sure you were a Christian, but I don't think you are.

OLAADEGBU:


Where in what you've quoted proves that Mary or any of the "dead" saints hear our prayers?

Nowhere. Wait for Jesus to come down and tell you that Saints in heaven who talk, think, have feelings and know about happenings on earth...are also aware of prayers on earth.

Jeromejnr:


Okay so let me help you small.

Since you believe in not sticking to the scriptures. Why don't you provide the dogma or tradition where it was taught that we could pray to Mary.

I am sure right now you just realised you never even knew where the tradition came from in the first place. You just grew up in that environment so because of that you just believe it.

Even the Bible you hold on to is from Catholic tradition.

The Catholic Church compiled and canonized it in the fourth century...

Just as it did its other doctrines.

Jeromejnr:


I still want proof tho. On saints in heaven interceeding.

Rev 6:10 is already proof that Saints in heaven can pray to God to inflict vengeance on the people on earth. No?

Jeromejnr:


BTW I don't go to my pastor to pray to God for me.

There's diff BTW meeting ur pastor or elders to anoint you with oil for healing and praying to God for maybe a car or something.

So you go to your sinful pastor (who might be heading for hell) to heal you...

...but when we go to Mary in heaven to pray for us, you suddenly throw tantrums...