italo:


How did you conclude the bold? 1. What proof do you have of that assertion?

2. Where did Jesus tell you that anybody asking a saint to pray to Jesus the High Priest is assigning the role of High Priest to the saint...and that it is idolatry?

3. Did the bible say these things or they are your own man-made doctrines?

1. What proof to the contrary do you have?

2. Where did He enjoin intercession to God through saints/angels? I quoted three passages on this, give us your own too?

3. The man-made doctrine here is intercession to saints for which not a faint hint is given in the Bible! What? Have ye never read:

14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
Hebrews 4:14-16

19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 by a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21 and having an high priest over the house of God;
22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, ...
Hebrews 10:19-22a

Scholar8200:

1. What proof to the contrary do you have?

You're the one who made assertions that no one ever asked the intercession of those people. And you can't show where the Bible says so. Do you still believe in sola scriptura or not.

Scholar8200:

2. Where did He enjoin intercession to God through saints/angels? I quoted three passages on this, give us your own too?

You didn't quote one single passage to support your assertion that anyone asking a saint to pray for him has given Jesus' role to the saint...and is guilty of idolatry.

Scholar8200:


3. The man-made doctrine here is intercession to saints for which not a faint hint is given in the Bible! What? Have ye never read:

14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
Hebrews 4:14-16

19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 by a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21 and having an high priest over the house of God;
22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, ...
Hebrews 10:19-22a

There is nowhere in that passage that says Saints don't intercede.

Stop trying to force your man-made doctrine into the passage.

If you can't find a place where the Bible says Saints can't intercede, just say so instead of this scriptural gymnastics you're doing.

italo:


You're the one who made assertions that no one ever asked the intercession of those people. And you can't show where the Bible says so. Do you still believe in sola scriptura or not.

And if you claim someone did then show us proofs from scripture!

You didn't quote one single passage to support your assertion that anyone asking a saint to pray for him has given Jesus' role to the saint...and is guilty of idolatry.

There is only One High Priest named and identified as Intercessor/Advocate before the Father! No other one was thus mentioned! If you know of any, give proofs! Why pray to a departed soul to do for you what Jesus is declared to be already doing in Heaven? And since Bible says:
4 And no man taketh this [size=13pt]honour[/size] unto himself, but [size=13pt]he that is called of God[/size], as was Aaron.
5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
Hebrews 5:4,5
The honour given to Jesus as High Priest is being shared with the souls He saved! God will never share His Glory with man. Did you notice Who selects High Priest,as per the highlighted?

There is nowhere in that passage that says Saints don't intercede.

And there is no where that say they do? Hence it's safer to stop where the Bible stops!

Stop trying to force your man-made doctrine into the passage.

Praying to/through Mary etc is a man-made practise bereft of scriptural antecedence whatsoever! If you have one, give it!

Scholar8200:
And if you claim someone did then show us proofs from scripture!

There is only One High Priest named and identified as Intercessor/Advocate before the Father! No other one was thus mentioned! If you know of any, give proofs! Why pray to a departed soul to do for you what Jesus is declared to be already doing in Heaven? And since Bible says:
4 And no man taketh this [size=13pt]honour[/size] unto himself, but [size=13pt]he that is called of God[/size], as was Aaron.
5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
Hebrews 5:4,5
The honour given to Jesus as High Priest is being shared with the souls He saved! God will never share His Glory with man. Did you notice Who selects High Priest,as per the highlighted?


And there is no where that say they do? Hence it's safer to stop where the Bible stops!

Praying to/through Mary etc is a man-made practise bereft of scriptural antecedence whatsoever! If you have one, give it!

Let's be clear.

You cannot provide a verse where the Bible says saints don't intercede for others. Agreed?

Then I can show you why intercession of saints is a Christian practise.

*and pls let me know if you believe that all Christian teaching must be explicitly stated in the bible...and anything not explicitly stated in the bible is a false teaching. It is very important.

italo:


Let's be clear.

You cannot provide a verse where the Bible says saints don't intercede for others. Agreed?

Then I can show you why intercession of saints is a Christian practise.

*and pls let me know if you believe that all Christian teaching must be explicitly stated in the bible...and anything not explicitly stated in the bible is a false teaching. It is very important.

Present the christian teaching in the Bible as it is in agreement with the definition of whatever concept/word is used to describe it

Scholar8200:
Present the christian teaching in the Bible as it is in agreement with the definition of whatever concept/word is used to describe it

1. Can we agree that you cannot provide a verse in the bible that says saints cannot intercede for christians?

2. Please let me know your belief. Does every Christian belief have to be explicitly written in the Bible...and is any teaching that is not explicitly written in the Bible a false teaching?

You shouldn't be afraid to clarify these is your mind is clean.

italo:


1. Can we agree that you cannot provide a verse in the bible that says saints cannot intercede for christians?

YES. Because none exists!

2. Please let me know your belief. Does every Christian belief have to be explicitly written in the Bible...and is any teaching that is not explicitly written in the Bible a false teaching?

You shouldn't be afraid to clarify these is your mind is clean.

As long as the definition of whatever concept/word is used agrees with the christian teaching in the Bible.

Scholar8200:
YES. Because none exists!

As long as the definition of whatever concept/word is used agrees with the christian teaching in the Bible.

What if the Bible is silent on a teaching or practise...

...does that make it a false teaching or practise?

Coming to my defense for intercession of Saints:

1. I believe you consider yourself a saint. The bible asks you to intercede for me. Yes or no?

2. The bible say that Saints will live forever. Yes or no?

3. Can Angels intercede for us? Yes or no?

4. Saints in heaven are like angels. Yes or no?

*please don't leave any of the 5 question unanswered. It's just yes or no. It won't hurt.

italo:


What if the Bible is silent on a teaching or practise...

...does that make it a false teaching or practise?

As it relates to our salvation/redemption, spiritual life and practices in worship, relationship with God, destinations when life is o'er, any teaching on these that has no Biblical bases should be rejected!

Coming to my defense for intercession of Saints:

1. I believe you consider yourself a saint. The bible asks you to intercede for me. Yes or no?

2. The bible say that Saints will live forever. Yes or no?

3. Can Angels intercede for us? Yes or no?

4. Saints in heaven are like angels. Yes or no?

*please don't leave any of the 5 question unanswered. It's just yes or no. It won't hurt.

Our focus here is on seeking intercession from departed souls. Now to your questions:
1. Yes. As long as I'm on earth and the Bible is my guide. Over there, we wont need the Bible as our guide. Just as the saints in heaven dont need to ,"hold fast to the faith", "preach the gospel", they do not mediate/stand in the gap for others etc

2.After death, they live on a plane much different from ours; they become a cloud of witnesses but not a team of prayer warriors.

3. NO! Neither did ANYBODY in the Bible intercede to/through them!

4. Yes. The more reason why they would no longer be under the command to pray one for another.


Now we all know that Abraham while on earth interceded for Lot; why did the Israelites, in all the prayers recorded in the OT, never implore him to do same for them after his death?

Moses interceded while on Earth for Israel; why did the Israelites, in all the prayers recorded in the OT, never implore him to do same for them after his death?

Samuel while on Earth interceded for Israel and Saul;why did the Israelites, in all the prayers recorded in the OT, never implore him to do same for them after his death? Saul sought to get a prophecy from Samuel but that had to be through witchcraft/necromancy! What then?

italo:


So you go to your sinful pastor (who might be heading for hell) to heal you...

...but when we go to Mary in heaven to pray for us, you suddenly throw tantrums...

Read what I told your fellow. I don't go to nobodody for nothing. I have my own faith for healing.

So its Mary that's in heaven that will cone down and heal you? SMH.

italo:


Rev 6:10 is already proof that Saints in heaven can pray to God to inflict vengeance on the people on earth. No?

Even if what you said is true, did they say "italo prayed to to us o Lord help please avenge him?"

And besides all of them where martyrs, was Mary a Martyr?.

italo:


Even the Bible you hold on to is from Catholic tradition.

The Catholic Church compiled and canonized it in the fourth century...

Just as it did its other doctrines.

Judas too was a disciple of Jesus. He healed the sick, preached the word and casted out demons.

Demas who was Paul's partner also was used by God. But what happened?

They later went out of the Way.

So that the Catholics were used by God to put the bible together does not mean they are right in all they do. it does not mean they have not gone out into strange doctrines in some areas.

Better watch watch you believe.

italo:


The bible tells me that satan is my adversary...so I don't pray to him.

Moreover, I'm not the one who believes that everything in Christianity must be explicitly stated in the bible, that's you and your like. So you have no business asking me that.

Yes that's why someone in your camp can wake up tomorrow and say that he just discovered that you can also pray and be devoted to the the sky and you will fall for it.

SMH.

Please how can these saints hear our prayers...it kinda sounds ridiculous!..#justsayin

italo:


1. I didn't turn anything. I gave you the verse as St. Paul wrote it. Or you don't believe the Bible anymore?

2. Here are some Church Fathers who spoke about Marian intercession:


"For as Eve was seduced by the word of an angel to flee from God, having rebelled against His Word, so Mary by the word of an angel received the glad tidings that she would bear God by obeying his Word. The former was seduced to disobey God, but the latter was persuaded to obey God, so that the Virgin Mary might become the advocate of the virgin Eve. As the human race was subjected to death through [the act of] a virgin, so it was saved by a virgin." Irenaeus, Against Heresies, V:19,1 (A.D. 180).

"Under your mercy we take refuge, O Mother of God. Do not reject our supplications in necessity, but deliver us from danger,[O you] alone pure and alone blessed." Sub Tuum Praesidium, From Rylands Papyrus, Egypt (3rd century).

"Let, then, the life of Mary be as it were virginity itself, set forth in a likeness, from which, as from a mirror, the appearance of chastity and the form of virtue is reflected.... Nor would I hesitate to admit you to the altars of God, whose souls I would without hesitation call altars, on which Christ is daily offered for the redemption of the body. For if the virgin's body be a temple of God, what is her soul, which, the ashes, as it were, of the body being shaken off, once more uncovered by the hand of the Eternal Priest, exhales the vapor of the divine fire. Blessed virgins, who emit a fragrance through divine grace as gardens do through flowers, temples through religion, altars through the priest." Ambrose, On Virginity II:6,18 (A.D. 378).

"Recalling these and other circumstances and imploring the Virgin Mary to bring assistance, since she, too, was a virgin and had been in danger, she entrusted herself to the remedy of fasting and sleeping on the ground." Gregory of Nazianzen, Oration 24:11 (A.D. 379).

"For it is said that he [Gregory the Wonderworker] heard the one who had appeared in womanly form exhorting John the Evangelist to explain to the young man the mystery of the true faith. John, in his turn, declared that he was completely willing to please the Mother of the Lord even in this matter and this was the one thing closest to his heart. And so the discussion coming to a close, and after they had made it quite clear and precise for him, the two disappeared from his sight." Gregory of Nyssa, On Gregory the WonderWorker (A.D. 380).

3. Marian intercession is directed to and subject to God.

4. Mary can handle all the prayers because she is now like God, as the Bible says.

5. Can you now admit that the Bible never said Saints in heaven can't hear prayers? Or show me where it says so.

Oga! Where did they get their own revelation from that they can pray to Mary?

Anyone can wake up one day and just say anything. Provide documents from apostles of Jesus or disciples of the apostles of Jesus.

Or ppl that followed the great commission (healing the sick, raising the dead e.t.c) and not pointless religious services.

Even Greek scholars will tell you after Jesus was born Mary had other children through Joseph. So I don't know what you are saying.

The bible was not written in Latin but Greek and Hebrew.

chikweezy:
Please how can these saints hear our prayers...it kinda sounds ridiculous!..#justsayin

That is what I've been trying to get them to prove for me since ysday o.

All they say is someone somewhere said....

And twist scriptures.

italo:


I would pray to you if I were sure you were a Christian, but I don't think you are.

Then pray to the nearest Christian you know to provide for you grace to live above sin na.

Mr italo, I fear for you. The sooner u dispel the notion of Mary and other saints mediating on yr behalf, the better for you. All scripture points towards Jesus as the only way to God. Sincerely speaking, even the bible u catholics carry does not reference Mary or any of the saints as intercessors.

chikweezy:
Mr italo, I fear for you. The sooner u dispel the notion of Mary and other saints mediating on yr behalf, the better for you. All scripture points towards Jesus as the only way to God. Sincerely speaking, even the bible u catholics carry does not reference Mary or any of the saints as intercessors.

Thanks for your concern bro. But the bible didn't say there's no way to Jesus. It was explicitly written that Jesus is the only way to God.

1. can you lead someone to Jesus?

2. if you answer yes to #1 above, are you mediating between the one and Jesus?

3. if u answer yes to #2 are you undermining the power of Jesus to reach the person Himself.

4. having a mid man between himself and Jesus, does ur convertee worship idol?

5. You answer no to #4 above and you believe that saints in heaven are alive in the spirit, But if they should lead one to Jesus then Jesus is no longer the only way. I call that hypocrisy.

Bros it appears u have misconstrued my position on this - Jesus is our only intercessor. We don't nid a mediator to Jesus for us. Infact, that is wat he came to fulfil wen he said "I am the way, truth,....no one comes to d Father except thru him". He came to abolish the whole "priest intercedes on behalf of pple with animal blood" thingy in the holy of holies. Now, every1 will talk to God only thru d name of Jesus.

dmandy:


Thanks for your concern bro. But the bible didn't say there's no way to Jesus. It was explicitly written that Jesus is the only way to God.

1. can you lead someone to Jesus?

2. if you answer yes to #1 above, are you mediating between the one and Jesus?

3. if u answer yes to #2 are you undermining the power of Jesus to reach the person Himself.

4. having a mid man between himself and Jesus, does ur convertee worship idol?

5. You answer no to #4 above and you believe that saints in heaven are alive in the spirit, But if they should lead one to Jesus then Jesus is no longer the only way. I call that hypocrisy.

Jeromejnr:


So what if I just prayed and God told me you are wrong? How will you know if I heard from God or not? Because I know you will still find something else to say.

Lol

But anyways, Shalom.

If sincerely did... I will believe you.

Jeromejnr:


So what if I just prayed and God told me you are wrong? How will you know if I heard from God or not? Because I know you will still find something else to say.

Lol

But anyways, Shalom.

If you sincerely did... I will believe you.

dmandy:


If sincerely did... I will believe you.

But seriously, I understand it's hard to accept the truth because of being brought up in a particular way. Just the way its hard for you to persuade Muslims concerning what they believe in.

You know its not scriptural on the saints interceding issue. There was never any command. But it was suggestion from one of the catholic father's which later became a dogma.

Just the same way I am sure you don't agree with the JW on Jesus being angel Michael. You see how they twist scriptures to suit the purpose.

Open your eyes and see broda.

Jeromejnr:


But seriously, I understand it's hard to accept the truth because of being brought up in a particular way. Just the way its hard for you to persuade Muslims concerning what they believe in.

You know its not scriptural on the saints interceding issue. There was never any command. But it was suggestion from one of the catholic father's which later became a dogma.

Just the same way I am sure you don't agree with the JW on Jesus being angel Michael. You see how they twist scriptures to suit the purpose.

Open your eyes and see broda.

But I just proved to you that it is scriptural.... I think the problem with christians is we believe our own dogma is always the best and whoever does not follow me its a candidate of hell. You have made up your mind to believe its not scriptural and whatever I say will not hold water.

If I should ask u... how have u made up ur mind on the following subjects
1. is it scriptural to pray for the dead to rip.
2. to use wedding ring in marriage
3. not to smoke cigarette
4. is it necessary to circumcise a baby, baptise a baby, pay tithe?

your answers will tell u something about choice to or not belive that something is scriptural. When next u study try to be open and accommodating.

Today is sunday... how scriptural is that? I know it is, but most don't know because it is not explicitly written in black and blue. But it is.

Happy sunday

chikweezy:
Bros it appears u have misconstrued my position on this - Jesus is our only intercessor. We don't nid a mediator to Jesus for us. Infact, that is wat he came to fulfil wen he said "I am the way, truth,....no one comes to d Father except thru him". He came to abolish the whole "priest intercedes on behalf of pple with animal blood" thingy in the holy of holies. Now, every1 will talk to God only thru d name of Jesus.

Why do you go for evangelism if u believe you don't need anybody to lead you to Jesus? How did you get to hear about him? I am thinking somebody lef you to Jesus. Be open and don't just chose to believe whatever makes you ferl good.

you make the biblical injunction 'go and make disciples of all nation' a mere joke if u say u don't need anyone to point u to Jesus.

Be open....

chikweezy:
Please how can these saints hear our prayers...it kinda sounds ridiculous!..#justsayin

Bros, its ridiculous to you and so he errrs to whom it doesn't sound ridiculous. Tell you what? that is what the atheists do...for they ask how can there be a God who loves us and yet allows such evil and wickedness on the world which He loves? Its ridiculous and anybody who belibleves such is foolish.

And you say how can there not be a God when upon all these evil and wickedness... we a preserved? Why can't these people be open and not just be one sided?

Some Christians say there is definitely no hell becsuse God loves mankind and won't inflict harm on them. They cite the Bible passage.... after death the body returns to earth and the spirit returns to God from where it comes period. And you start masturbating saying why can't these people see what I see for they are already condemned in hell. And then that gives u more hope of making heaven since to u more and more people are already headed to hell.

dmandy:


But I just proved to you that it is scriptural.... I think the problem with christians is we believe our own dogma is always the best and whoever does not follow me its a candidate of hell. You have made up your mind to believe its not scriptural and whatever I say will not hold water.

If I should ask u... how have u made up ur mind on the following subjects
1. is it scriptural to pray for the dead to rip.
2. to use wedding ring in marriage
3. not to smoke cigarette
4. is it necessary to circumcise a baby, baptise a baby, pay tithe?

your answers will tell u something about choice to or not belive that something is scriptural. When next u study try to be open and accommodating.

Today is sunday... how scriptural is that? I know it is, but most don't know because it is not explicitly written in black and blue. But it is.

Happy sunday

The problem. With Christians is that most don't follow the teaching of God.

What about this scripture:

2Tim 3:16
15and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

So won't going outside the scriptures to establish you own dogma be against this scripture.

Praying to Mary or saints was it a sacred writing?.

You talked about today being Sunday if scriptural: but the issue is discussed in the word. Where?

Roman 14

1Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

5One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone.


So you see, all this talk of whether a day is holy or not is unscriptural.

For the cigarette:

1Cor 6:12
You say, "I am allowed to do anything"--but not everything is good for you. And even though "I am allowed to do anything," I must not become a slave to anything. (NLT).

Jesus also said

matt 15:11
"Hear and understand. 11"It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man."

You see all things needed are in the scripture.

But where do we see praying for the dead or to Mary or the saints. Stick to the word.

Jeromejnr:


The problem. With Christians is that most don't follow the teaching of God.

What about this scripture:

2Tim 3:16
15and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

So won't going outside the scriptures to establish you own dogma be against this scripture.

Praying to Mary or saints was it a sacred writing?.

You talked about today being Sunday if scriptural: but the issue is discussed in the word. Where?

Roman 14

1Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

5One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone.


So you see, all this talk of whether a day is holy or not is unscriptural.

For the cigarette:

1Cor 6:12
You say, "I am allowed to do anything"--but not everything is good for you. And even though "I am allowed to do anything," I must not become a slave to anything. (NLT).

Jesus also said

matt 15:11
"Hear and understand. 11"It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man."

You see all things needed are in the scripture.

But where do we see praying for the dead or to Mary or the saints. Stick to the word.

why not answer these questions.


Well according to u praying for the dead is not in the bible and anybody who does it is already in hell.

I pray for my dead ones and St. paul whom u quoted prayed for a dead friend. And by ur judgement he is roting in hell.

happy sunday

dmandy:


why not answer these questions.


Well according to u praying for the dead is not in the bible and anybody who does it is already in hell.

I pray for my dead ones and St. paul whom u quoted prayed for a dead friend. And by ur judgement he is roting in hell.

happy sunday

Why put words in my mouth. Its not right man

So why don't you recite the Prayer Saint Paul prayed. Let's move from there.

And BTW, why are u guys going round in circles. What is the similarity BTW praying to saint in heaven and praying for the dead?

And why don't you guys give scripture backing instead of saying what one cardinal or bishop said one time?.

Jeromejnr:


Why put words in my mouth. Its not right man

So why don't you recite the Prayer Saint Paul prayed. Let's move from there.

And BTW, why are u guys going round in circles. What is the similarity BTW praying to saint in heaven and praying for the dead?

And why don't you guys give scripture backing instead of saying what one cardinal or bishop said one time?.

I was just showing u ur rigidity. I didn't put words into ur mouth...you said praying to or for the dead Is not scriptural.

Well read 2 tim 1:16. and tell him how paul erred

dmandy:


I was just showing u ur rigidity. I didn't put words into ur mouth...you said praying to or for the dead Is not scriptural.

Well read 2 tim 1:16. and tell him how paul erred

Lool. Na wa o. Why will you twist scriptures?

Even the way you wrote the scripture was with apprehension knowing I will prove your point wrong.

2 Tim 1:16"You are aware of the fact that all who are in Asia turned away from me, among whom are Phygelus and Hermogenes. 16The Lord grant mercy to the house of Onesiphorus, for he often refreshed me and was not ashamed of my chains; 17but when he was in Rome, he eagerly searched for me and found me--…"

That's your scripture. Please tell me How in God's name did you come to the conclusion that Onesiphorus was dead? was paul praying for the dead in that scripture? Was he even praying to a saint in heaven concerning Onesiphorus who was on earth? Because I saw he prayed to the Lord.

This is 2Tim 4:19 which was later in the scripture:

"Greet Prisca and Aquila, and the household of Onesiphorus."

So was he dead that Paul prayed for him? You just shot yourself in your own foot.

Come on man. The truth is you believe all this things because you grew up that way. And as a result it is hard for one to change his way of thinking. But God has called you to:

Rom 12:2 "Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God's will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect."

Renew your mind with the undiluted word and stop listening to dogmas of men.

Jeromejnr:


Lool. Na wa o. Why will you twist scriptures?

Even the way you wrote the scripture was with apprehension knowing I will prove your point wrong.

2 Tim 1:16"You are aware of the fact that all who are in Asia turned away from me, among whom are Phygelus and Hermogenes. 16The Lord grant mercy to the house of Onesiphorus, for he often refreshed me and was not ashamed of my chains; 17but when he was in Rome, he eagerly searched for me and found me--…"

That's your scripture. Please tell me How in God's name did you come to the conclusion that Onesiphorus was dead? was paul praying for the dead in that scripture? Was he even praying to a saint in heaven concerning Onesiphorus who was on earth? Because I saw he prayed to the Lord.

This is 2Tim 4:19 which was later in the scripture:

"Greet Prisca and Aquila, and the household of Onesiphorus."

So was he dead that Paul prayed for him? You just shot yourself in your own foot.

Come on man. The truth is you believe all this things because you grew up that way. And as a result it is hard for one to change his way of thinking. But God has called you to:

Rom 12:2 "Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God's will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect."

Renew your mind with the undiluted word and stop listening to dogmas of men.

Waoh... I really shot myself....now I'm sure u use Niv so v.18.... may the lord grant that he will find mercy.....on that day. Was his friend alive when the above prayer was made?