scholes0:
^^ None.
Yorubas have lived in West Africa, before Arabs even entered Sudan.
Group 2 might just be as old, but unrelated.

MisterG:


Can you tell me a point of time when large migration of Arabs entered in Sudan? Inquiring minds like to know? Actually what is Sudan today, is pretty much a created country, just like Nigeria in some respects.

scholes0:


I know Yorubas are native to West Africa, while Arabs are not native to Sudan.

scholes0:


I know Yorubas are native to West Africa, while Arabs are not native to Sudan.
You can open a new thread about it and tag me, but I do not want to contribute to the continuation of the OP's title, which is just being deliberately stupid and misleading.

MisterG:


There is a big difference of being racially arab, and being Arabized. It is similar to Nigerians speaking English, but does speaking English make you Englishmen?

scholes0:


Yes, maybe.
but those first group are basically hybrids. A mixture of two or more races. Which simply means that they are a mixture of an indiginous population, and something foreign.
Just look at this man

MisterG:


What is so mixed about Omar Bashir? Can you explain this picture of the Christian period of their country?

Can you explain these similarities?

scholes0:


Modern Sudanese, are simply a mixture of various populations.
Some are at the extreme ends of each spectrum, like the very Arab looking ones, and the very Nilotic looking ones. Omar Al bashir looks something like a Black man, with some Arab ancestry...... If the look of a population is not uniform, then know some mixing has happened somewhere.

Look at this Arab



Look at this other Arab



And this



And finally this



All are classic signs of population mixture.


Although, the mix of some other groups are much older, making them look more like an authentic 1 lineage ethnicity.

MisterG:


The girl is from the Rashaida tribe which is a recent tribe that arrived to Eritrea and Sudan during the 18th century, who i am familiar with. The first guy you posted is obviously from Darfur, who is genetically link to West Africans.

The guy wearing jallabiyas is from the Shaigiya, but you have not answer the other question above.


I will say this and not going to further arguments. Sudan is basically the fault-line of various different people on the Continent. It borders Egypt, so you will have Egyptian looking people there, Eritrean and Ethiopian which mean you have many that look horners, Chad which means we have many people that look like Chadians, South Sudan etc.

[img]http://sites.duke.edu/stefanijones/files/2011/12/Map-of-Sudan-UN.jpg[/img]

It is very different from the Nigerian reality.

scholes0:


They are all sudanese Arabs, a Population mix. The guy you say is from Darfur, can actually be Arab from anywhere in Sudan. Even Nubian!
I answered your question, I said the mix of those guyz are very old, and variances in their looks have stabilized.... It can deceive some people.

Radoillo:
Can someone help me reconcile something here? The 'Sudan' theories say the Ijebu are an offshoot of 'the Wadai Empire in Sudan'. But Wadai straddles Chad and the Central African Republic, and so technically isn't in Sudan.

Who made the connection with Sudan, and how did he (they) go from Chad-CAR to Sudan?

TerraCotta:


Good question. This 'Sudan theory' is boosted by people with a poor understanding of geography. Until the creation of the modern nation of the same name, the Sudan was a generic Muslim term for the savannah belt of central Africa, from Senegal to parts of Ethiopia. Bilad Al-Sudan ("land of the blacks" is an Arabic phrase for the region, and much like modern Ghana or Benin Republic took their names from larger, distinct historic areas, the contemporary country reflects this older term. The "Waddai" of the myth is a reflection of the region, and not the modern nation.

This myth is likely to reflect the 19th-century southward of Yoruba-speakers moving away from central Nigeria during the jihad--Old Oyo reached into present-day Kwara State, and the Niger River was one of the most important trading posts for Ile-Ife at its economic height--as Old Oyo fell to Ilorin. This southward movement of non-Muslim groups had been going on sporadically for hundreds of years as Muslim political power expanded and non-Muslims sought refuge away from these developments. The same thing was happening in Northern Africa and southern Spain as the Moors and Almoravids established themselves. It may also be a genuine reference to some portion of the population immigrating from the area around Bornu, which was a recorded claim by colonial-era Yoruba historians in 1910s Lagos. There are superficial similarities between northeastern Nigerian facial markings and some of the bronze/brass/copper Ile-Ife heads, for instance, so the Awujale has used this to support his claims of Sudanese origins in the early 1980s.

Of course, any right-thinking person who can read would see that virtually all Ijebu cultural markers--from language and government to religion and food--align with all the other Yoruba groups.

It's in recent years that the modern nation of Sudan has become the focal point for this particular myth, rather than the earlier reference to the broader region.

This is all nice to discuss but the fracturing of identities is a reflection of current politics and has little to do with history. Obafemi Awolowo is the quintessential modern Yoruba and a founder of the Egbe Omo Oduduwa, but he regarded himself as an Ijebu from Remo. These days, Remo indigenes themselves often wish to be regarded as an independent group from Ijebu. The aim of the thread itself is inherently political and I'm fairly sure the originator has little interest in factual Yoruba history and is more focused on petty propaganda.

francizy:


Sudanese doctor!

KingTom:

Emi niyen

2prexios:
In Oladipo Odeogbolu's voice, 'where is the mastermind and the arrowhead of this phantom' thread? Op come an finish what you started o. Lol, the coward is nowhere to be found. I thing the thread is now starting to making sense, thanks to those 'proffesor chindrens' that are now making input.

KingTom:

See are you people mad? Shey eyin ti ya werey Ni? See Awujale Sikiru has spoken! All the professor chindrens should shut up!! We are Sudanese period!!!

TerraCotta:


Good question. This 'Sudan theory' is boosted by people with a poor understanding of geography. Until the creation of the modern nation of the same name, the Sudan was a generic Muslim term for the savannah belt of central Africa, from Senegal to parts of Ethiopia. Bilad Al-Sudan ("land of the blacks" ) is an Arabic phrase for the region, and much like modern Ghana or Benin Republic took their names from larger, distinct historic areas, the contemporary country reflects this older term. The "Waddai" of the myth is a reflection of the region, and not the modern nation.

This myth is likely to reflect the 19th-century southward drift of Yoruba-speakers moving away from central Nigeria (the tenuous edge of the 'Sudan' region) during the jihad. Old Oyo reached into present-day Kwara State and even further north, while the Niger River crossing around Jebba Island (present Kwara/Niger state border) is believed to be one of the most important trading posts for Ile-Ife at its economic height. This steady southward movement of non-Muslim groups had been going on sporadically for hundreds of years as Muslim political power expanded and non-Muslims sought refuge away from these developments. The same thing was happening in Northern Africa and southern Spain as the Moors and Almoravids established themselves in earlier periods of expansion. It may also be a genuine reference to some portion of the population immigrating from the area around Bornu, which was a recorded claim by colonial-era Yoruba historians in 1910s Lagos. There are superficial similarities between northeastern Nigerian facial markings and some of the bronze/brass/copper Ile-Ife heads, for instance, so the Awujale has used this to support his claims of Sudanese origins in the early 1980s.

Of course, any right-thinking person who can read would see that virtually all Ijebu cultural markers--from language and government to religion and food--align with all the other Yoruba groups.

It's in recent years that the modern nation of Sudan has become the focal point for this particular myth, rather than the earlier reference to the broader region.

This is all nice to discuss but the fracturing of identities is a reflection of current politics and has little to do with history. Obafemi Awolowo is the quintessential modern Yoruba and a founder of the Egbe Omo Oduduwa, but he regarded himself as an Ijebu from Remo. These days, Remo indigenes themselves often wish to be regarded as an independent group from Ijebu. The aim of the thread itself is inherently political and I'm fairly sure the originator has little interest in factual Yoruba history and is more focused on petty propaganda.








No homo but i L*** You. throughout today all i've been seeing is idiotic comments from crackpots like yorubatic and some other NL Hooligans but i finally saw knowledge. 100%

laiperi:
TerraCotta,

Thank you for your input. Some of those Ijebu claiming Sudan origin also pointed to some Ijebu tribal marks similar to some Sudanese.

I am also mindful of how you explained some Kanuri or around Borno marks similar to Yoruba.

We have so many bogus stories to disclaim their Yoruba culture, even claiming Yoruba got their culture