Proverb 8:22 said wisdom ( Jesus) was created , the LXX agrees with that rendering . So when we read at proverb 8:24 that wisdom is been given birth to , thats very easy to understand and perfectly agrees with proverb 8:22

THE CONTRADICTION :

Most modern translation disagree with the LXX septuagint " created " because it contradict their theology , so They Render Proverb 8:22 as
" wisdom was possessed " .. This raise the QUESTION : How can wisdom be GIVEN BIRTH TO if its already possessed ?

Proverb 8:22 " wisdom is possessed"

Proverb 8:24 NO , " wisdom is given birth to"

Can someone explain this contradiction ?

Jozzy4:
Proverb 8:22 said wisdom ( Jesus) was created , the LXX agrees with that rendering . So when we read at proverb 8:24 that wisdom is been given birth to , thats very easy to understand and perfectly agrees with proverb 8:22

THE CONTRADICTION :

Most modern translation disagree with the LXX septuagint " created " because it contradict their theology , so They Render Proverb 8:22 as
" wisdom was possessed " .. This raise the QUESTION : How can wisdom be GIVEN BIRTH TO if its already possessed ?

Proverb 8:22 " wisdom is possessed"

Proverb 8:24 NO , " wisdom is given birth to"

Can someone explain this contradiction ?

The word 'possess' is also used in relation to being brought forth in Psalm 139:13
For thou hast possessed my reins:
thou hast covered me in my mother’s womb. AKJV

Consider this passage in Amplified

13 For You did form my inward parts; You did knit me together in my mother’s womb.

Meaning the hebrew word there used still talks of the process of being brought forth as Psalm 139 shows.

Scholar8200:
The word 'possess' is also used in relation to being brought forth in Psalm 139:13
For thou hast possessed my reins:
thou hast covered me in my mother’s womb. AKJV

Consider this passage in Amplified

13 For You did [size=26]form [/size] my inward parts; You did knit me together in my mother’s womb.

Meaning the hebrew word there used still talks of the process of being brought forth as Psalm 139 shows.

Thanks for this analysis .

From the above , God possessed my reins means God formed my intestines , right ?

Then that means wisdom been possessed in Proverb 8:22 means it was FORMED .

Jozzy4:


Thanks for this analysis .

From the above , God possessed my reins means God formed my intestines , right ?

Then that means wisdom been possessed in Proverb 8:22 means it was FORMED .

Notice that Psalm 139 describes the art of possessing as part of the process of being brought forth; it will then be wrong to single out that word and ignore the context or the part played by that verse in what is being described therein.
Both the OT and the NT agree to the fact that He is the Only Begotten!

Scholar8200:
Notice that Psalm 139 describes the art of possessing as part of the process of being brought forth; it will then be wrong to single out that word and ignore the context or the part played by that verse in what is being described therein.
Both the OT and the NT agree to the fact that He is the Only Begotten!

Whats your point ? Because possessing my intestines simply means God Create them . Are you now saying wisdom was possessed means wisdom is created ?

Jozzy4:


Whats your point ? Because possessing my intestines simply means God Create them . Are you now saying wisdom was possessed means wisdom is created ?

My point is that we read the passage in its context, appreciate the usage of the word 'possess' with respect to the process of 'bringing forth', vis a vis the usage of that word with reference to the same process in a similar passage, in order to be objective and fair in our analysis.
Holding to 'possess' while ignoring the others that set things in the right perspective is to distort the thought given by both passages.

Scholar8200:
My point is that we read the passage in its context, appreciate the usage of the word 'possess' with respect to the process of 'bringing forth', vis a vis the usage of that word with reference to the same process in a similar passage, in order to be objective and fair in our analysis.
Holding to 'possess' while ignoring the others that set things in the right perspective is to distort the thought given by both passages.

Appreciating possess in the light of proverb 8:24 , been GIVEN BIRTH to simply means Jesus is created . Do you agree ?

Jozzy4:


Appreciating possess in the light of proverb 8:24 , been GIVEN BIRTH to simply means Jesus is created . Do you agree ?

Your conclusion contradicts other portion of Scripture that call Him the Only Begotten.

NO TRUTH IN SCRIPTURE CAN BE ESTABLISHED INDEPENDENT OF OTHER PORTIONS AND ANY BELIEF THAT CONTRADICTS OTHER PORTIONS IN THEIR CONTEXT AND INTENT, IS ERRONEOUS

Besides, Proverbs 8:24 says:

In there being no depths, I was brought forth, In there being no fountains heavy with waters,
Youngs' Literal Translation.

It seems the highlighted is a conclusion you strongly (and wrongly) want to achieve and its apparent that you are determined to rewrite that Proverbs 8:24

Consider this:

mā·yim.
מָֽיִם׃
with water


niḵ·bad·dê-
נִכְבַּדֵּי־
abounding

ma‘·yā·nō·wṯ,
מַ֝עְיָנ֗וֹת
[there were] fountains

bə·’ên
בְּאֵ֥ין
when no

ḥō·w·lā·lə·tî;
חוֹלָ֑לְתִּי
I was brought forth

tə·hō·mō·wṯ
תְּהֹמ֥וֹת
[there were] depths

bə·’ên- 24
בְּאֵין־ 24
When no

biblehub.com

It will be wrong and misleading to separate 'possess' from the 'bringing forth' process!

Besides I find the contradiction in your post quite indicative of bias:

"Appreciating possess in the light of proverb 8:24 , been GIVEN BIRTH to simply means Jesus is created"
If you agree that 8:24 means giving birth, how come your conclusion contradicts your premise?

Jesus was, is and will ever be the Only Begotten of the Father, according to the scriptures!!!

Scholar8200:


Your conclusion contradicts other portion of Scripture that call Him the Only Begotten.

NO TRUTH IN SCRIPTURE CAN BE ESTABLISHED INDEPENDENT OF OTHER PORTIONS AND ANY BELIEF THAT CONTRADICTS OTHER PORTIONS IN THEIR CONTEXT AND INTENT, IS ERRONEOUS

Besides, Proverbs 8:24 says:

In there being no depths, I was brought forth, In there being no fountains heavy with waters,
Youngs' Literal Translation.

It seems the highlighted is a conclusion you strongly (and wrongly) want to achieve and its

Imagine ! After you quote psalm 139 to prove that possess can mean FORMED (amplified) , anything formed is created .

apparent that you are determined to rewrite that Proverbs 8:24

Consider this:

mā·yim.
מָֽיִם׃
with water


niḵ·bad·dê-
נִכְבַּדֵּי־
abounding

ma‘·yā·nō·wṯ,
מַ֝עְיָנ֗וֹת
[there were] fountains

bə·’ên
בְּאֵ֥ין
When no

ḥō·w·lā·lə·tî;
חוֹלָ֑לְתִּי
I was brought forth

tə·hō·mō·wṯ
תְּהֹמ֥וֹת
[there were] depths

Bə·’ên- 24
בְּאֵין־ 24
When no

biblehub.com

It will be wrong and misleading to separate 'possess' from the 'bringing forth' process!

Besides I find the contradiction in your post quite indicative of bias:

"Appreciating possess in the light of proverb 8:24 , been GIVEN BIRTH to simply means Jesus is created"
If you agree that 8:24 means giving birth, how come your conclusion contradicts your premise?

My conclusion doesnt contradict , God give birth to the earth means God form/create it (psalm 90:2) the same hebrew word is used

A right thinking person know God is not a woman that he should give birth , that expression refer to creation ! that means the septuagint LXX rendering @ prov 8:22 is correct

Jesus was, is and will ever be the Only Begotten of the Father, according to the scriptures!!!

Man beget through se.xual intercourse leading to birth , tell me how he was begotten ?

Philippians tells us explicitly how Jesus is the eternal God who took on the form of a man:
Philippians 2:5-7
...Christ Jesus, who, although He
existed in the form of God, did not
regard equality with God a thing to be
grasped, but emptied Himself, taking
the form of a bond-servant, and
being made in the likeness of men.

The prophecy in isaiah9:6 say He is mighty God who is eternal Father (i.e.,
eternal indicates that He is not created).
John 1:1 indicates that Jesus is God, who
was present in the beginning (again,
indicating that Jesus was not created).

Sto derailing the thread man .

malvisguy212:
Philippians tells us explicitly how Jesus is the eternal God who took on the form of a man:
Philippians 2:5-7
...Christ Jesus, who, although He
existed in the form of God, did not
regard equality with God a thing to be
grasped, but emptied Himself, taking
the form of a bond-servant, and
being made in the likeness of men.

The form of God is SPIRIT ( John 4:24), even angels are spirit .

The form of a servant refer to Human Flesh.

Simple things yet you dont understand

The prophecy in isaiah9:6 say He is mighty God who is eternal Father (i.e.,
eternal indicates that He is not created).

The verse said : " he will be Called ... " , which reveal he has not always been eternal father .
thats why you need to study proverb 8:22,24

John 1:1 indicates that Jesus is God, who
was present in the beginning(again,
Indicating that Jesus was not created).

God has no beginning (ps90:2

Focus on the OP ! And stop derailing pls .

Jozzy4:

Imagine ! After you quote psalm 139 to prove that possess can mean FORMED (amplified) , anything formed is created .

I quoted Psalm 139 to establish the fact that 'possess' is used in inseparable connection with being 'brought forth'.

My conclusion doesnt contradict , God give birth to the earth means God form/create it (psalm 90:2) the same hebrew word is used

NO WAY! A different word is used! Do your research properly.

A right thinking person know God is not a woman that he should give birth , that expression refer to creation ! that means the septuagint LXX rendering @ prov 8:22 is correct

A right thinking person also realises that God is not man and is not bound by the copulation-to-conception ordinance! Again reading our meaning to vs 22 while ignoring the context, vs 24 and other parallel passages is wrong.

Man beget through se.xual intercourse leading to birth , tell me how he was begotten ?

I can only go as far as the Scriptures. Attempting to mentally fill in the gaps and condemn or accept is the recipe for erroneous teachings.

Scholar8200:
I quoted Psalm 139 to establish the fact that 'possess' is used in inseparable connection with being 'brought forth'.

Forget the grammar ; do you agree with amplified "FORMED" ?

NO WAY! A different word is used! Do your research properly.

Formed (chuwl) the earth " psalm 90:2 , i was given birth (chuwl) ? The ball is in ur net .

A right thinking person also realises that God is not man and is not bound by the copulation-to-conception ordinance! Again reading our meaning to vs 22 while ignoring the context, vs 24 and other parallel passages is wrong.

I can only go as far as the Scriptures. Attempting to mentally fill in the gaps and condemn or accept is the recipe for erroneous teachings.

How was Jesus Given Birth To ? Proveb 8:24 Explain .

Jozzy4:
Sto derailing the thread man .



The form of God is SPIRIT ( John 4:24), even angels are spirit .

The form of a servant refer to Human Flesh.

Simple things yet you dont understand



The verse said : " he will be Called ... " , which reveal he has not always been eternal father .
thats why you need to study proverb 8:22,24



God has no beginning (ps90:2

angels are spirit but the bible say "ALL things were created through Jesus:
Colossians 1:16
For by Him all things were created,
both in the heavens and on earth,
visible and invisible, whether thrones
or dominions or rulers or authorities--
all things have been created through
Him and for Him.

In other word, both visible(human) and invincible (angels) were created through Him (Jesus) .

Jesus was present together with God from the beginning of the world,the verse was not talking about God or Jesus had a beginning, the verse was saying, as the world began to exist , Jesus was present there:
"And now, Father, glorify me in your
presence with the glory I had with
you before the world BEGAN." ( John
17:5)

Jozzy4:

My conclusion doesnt contradict , God give birth to the earth means God form/create it (psalm 90:2) the same hebrew word is used

A right thinking person know God is not a woman that he should give birth , that expression refer to creation ! that means the septuagint LXX rendering @ prov 8:22 is correct

I can't just stop laughing the way you hold Septuagint LXX whereas when we look at other Septuagint LXX rendering in other verses about the Messiah your argument will be forfeited.

For instance;

In Psalm 45:6-7 was rendered in Septuagint as 6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a sceptre of righteousness. 7 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity: therefore God, thy God, has anointed thee with the oil of gladness beyond thy fellows.

Whereas the author of Hebrew applied this verse to Jesus Christ when the Father is addressing His Son in Hebrew 1:8 and an organization rendered it as God is your throne! Which is one is the correct one, the Septuagint or that organization?

Again, in Micah 5:1 Septuagint rendered it as "1 And thou, Bethleem, house of Ephratha, art few in number to be [reckoned] among the thousands of Juda; [yet] out of thee shall one come forth to me, to be a ruler of Israel; and his goings forth were from the beginning, [even] from eternity.

And an organization rendered it as from time indefinite! even though the same Hebrew word was used for the Father in Psalm 90:2.

Is Septuagint or that organization the correct one?

So look at the context of Proverb 8:22-end and see what the writer is saying, like I told one JWs the context of that Proverb 8 will contradict some Christian Greek scripture if being reading out of context because if you read it down the Speaker didn't claim to be used for the creation but just beside Him but Christian's Greek Scripture says everything was created through Jesus.

Let me stop here first, but if you want more explanation about Proverb 8 let me know.

I know the next thing you will do is to strike through my post.

Jozzy4:

Forget the grammar ; do you agree with amplified "FORMED" ?

Remember the context!

Formed (chuwl) the earth " psalm 90:2 , i was given birth (chuwl) ? The ball is in ur net .

The bone of contention here is 'possess' and I dont find it in Psalm 90. Besides, unlike Proverbs 8, Psalm 90 refers to non-living things hence it cannot be used in comparison here.

In fact, that a different word is translated brought forth in Psalm 90 and Proverbs 8 shows the intent of the hebrew to differentiate one from the other. While the word can be used to personify the act of creation, the fact of Only Begotten stays only with Jesus as both testaments affirm.

Another example of such obvious personification is Isaiah 59:4


Besides, 'chuwl' is purposely used in Proverbs 8 because the word expresses and confirms its subject removing any possibility of assuming personification; thankfully, the records in the NT confirms the fact that the process described is literal as regard the Subject.

Proverbs 8: 22-30
22The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way,
before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting,
from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth;
when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled,
before the hills was I brought forth:
26 while as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields,
nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27 When he[b] prepared the heavens[/b], I was there:
when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28 when he established the clouds above:
when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 when he gave to the sea his decree,
that the waters should not pass his commandment:
when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30 then I was by him, as one brought up with him:
and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

Here things are set in their proper perspective, He that was brought forth is differentiated from the elements and mountains that were prepared, created, established,appointed, made etc. In fact He repeats 'brought forth twice in that passage to clear your doubts!

Scholar8200:
Remember the context!


The bone of contention here is 'possess' and I dont find it in Psalm 90. Besides, unlike Proverbs 8, Psalm 90 refers to non-living things hence it cannot be used in comparison here.

In fact, that a different word is translated brought forth in Psalm 90 and Proverbs 8 shows the intent of the hebrew to differentiate one from the other. While the word can be used to personify the act of creation, the fact of Only Begotten stays only with Jesus as both testaments affirm.

Another example of such obvious personification is Isaiah 59:4


Besides, 'chuwl' is purposely used in Proverbs 8 because the word expresses and confirms its subject removing any possibility of assuming personification; thankfully, the records in the NT confirms the fact that the process described is literal as regard the Subject.

Proverbs 8: 22-30
22The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way,
before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting,
from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth;
when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled,
before the hills was I brought forth:
26 while as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields,
nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27 When he[b] prepared the heavens[/b], I was there:
when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28 when he established the clouds above:
when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 when he gave to the sea his decree,
that the waters should not pass his commandment:
when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30 then I was by him, as one brought up with him:
and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

Here things are set in their proper perspective, He that was brought forth is differentiated from the elements and mountains that were prepared, created, established,appointed, made etc. In fact He repeats 'brought forth twice in that passage to clear your doubts!

Continue to contradict yourself

Proverb 8:22 said wisdom is possessed in the beginning

Proverb 8:24 said wisdom is brought forth /given birth to .

1. Can you give birth to what you already possess ? Funny

2. What does it mean that Jesus was given birth to ?

malvisguy212:
angels are spirit but the bible say "ALL things were created through Jesus:
Colossians 1:16
For by Him all things were created,
both in the heavens and on earth,
visible and invisible, whether thrones
or dominions or rulers or authorities--
all things have been created through
Him and for Him.

In other word, both visible(human) and invincible (angels) were created through Him (Jesus) .

Jesus was present together with God from the beginning of the world,the verse was not talking about God or Jesus had a beginning, the verse was saying, as the world began to exist , Jesus was present there:
"And now, Father, glorify me in your
presence with the glory I had with
you before the world BEGAN." ( John
17:5)

No bible verse can contradict proverb 8:22,24
Kindly explain what it mean that Jesus Was Given Birth To ?

Emusan
I can't just stop laughing the way you hold Septuagint
LXX whereas when we look at other Septuagint LXX
rendering in other verses about the Messiah your
argument will be forfeited.
For instance;
In Psalm 45:6-7 was rendered in Septuagint as
throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy
kingdom is a sceptre of righteousness. 7 Thou hast
loved righteousness, and hated iniquity: therefore God,
thy God, has anointed thee with the oil of gladness
beyond thy fellows.
Whereas the author of Hebrew applied this verse to
Jesus Christ when the Father is addressing His Son in
Hebrew 1:8 and an organization rendered it as
God is
your throne! Which is one is the correct one, the
Septuagint or that organization?

I can see you are indeed a frustrated man , how does your post address the op , meanwhile regarding psalm 45:6,7 arent you aware that
The renowned trinitarian Bible scholar, B. F. Westcott, wrote:

" The LXX [Septuagint] admits of two renderings [at Ps. 45:6, 7] : [ho theos] can be taken as a vocative in both cases (`thy throne, O God, .... therefore, O God, thy God...') or it can be taken as the subject (or the
predicate) in the first case (`
God is Thy throne,' or `Thy
throne is God...'), and in apposition to [ho theos sou] in The second case (`Therefore God, even Thy God...') .... It is scarcely possible that [elohim] in the original can Be addressed to the King. The presumption therefore is against the belief that [ho theos] is a vocative in the LXX [Septuagint]. Thus on the whole it seems BEST to Adopt in the first clause the rendering: `
God is thy Throne' (or, `Thy throne is God'), that is, `Thy kingdom Is founded upon God, the immovable Rock.'" -The Epistle to the Hebrews, London, 1889, pp. 25, 26.

Jozzy4:


Continue to contradict yourself

Proverb 8:22 said wisdom is possessed in the beginning

Proverb 8:24 said wisdom is brought forth /given birth to .

1. Can you give birth to what you already possess ? Funny

2. What does it mean that Jesus was given birth to ?

listen, Mary given birth to Jesus without the agency of a man proved Jesus exist long before he was born, that why john say "the word become flesh and dwell among us" and in john 3:16 it indicate, the birth of Jesus is a gift to the world. So this mean Mary was only the recipient of that gift. She is not the source of that gift.

Emusan

"1 And
Again, in Micah 5:1 Septuagint rendered it as
thou, Bethleem, house of Ephratha, art few in number to
be [reckoned] among the thousands of Juda; [yet] out of
thee shall one come forth to me, to be a ruler of Israel;
and his goings forth were from the beginning, [even]
from eternity.
And an organization rendered it as from time indefinite!
even though the same Hebrew word was used for the
Father in Psalm 90:2.
Is Septuagint or that organization the correct one?

But Time indefinite was used both at psalm 90:2 and micah 5:2 , stop this lies . They render it the same way .

Meanwhile , its interesting that Micah 5:2 in the LXX says " whose going forth were from the beginning" , going forth refers to ORIGIN " ; the ONLY God dont have an origin .

So look at the context of Proverb 8:22-end and see
what the writer is saying, like I told one JWs the context
of that Proverb 8 will contradict some Christian Greek
scripture if being reading out of context because if you
read it down the Speaker didn't claim to be used for the
creation but just beside Him

Beside him AS A MASTER WORKER !

but Christian's Greek
Scripture says everything was created through Jesus.
Let me stop here first, but if you want more explanation
About Proverb 8 let me know.
I know the next thing you will do is to strike through my
post.

The LXX directly said jesus is created ! Proverb 8:22 , do you agree ?

Jozzy4:

No bible verse can contradict proverb 8:22,24
Kindly explain what it mean that Jesus Was Given Birth To ?

psalm 104:24
How many are your works, LORD! IN
wisdom you made them all; the earth is
full of your creatures.

The verse say LORD IN WISDOM , in other wrod, it was God Himself who possessed this wisdom to create the world.

The eternal Wisdom and Word, which was in the beginning with him, John 1:1, and in him, John 14:10, and was afterward made flesh, and dwelt among men, as the only begotten of the Father, full of truth and grace, John 1:14. Before his works of old, His works of creation, as it follows.

Jozzy4:
But Time indefinite was used both at psalm 90:2 and micah 5:2 , stop this lies . They render it the same way .

Meanwhile , its interesting that Micah 5:2 in the LXX says " whose going forth were from the beginning" , going forth refers to ORIGIN " ; the ONLY God dont have an origin.

In the first place how do you know the organization I'm talking about?

You need more of basic English, I didn't compare the two verse BUT HOW THE VERSE WAS TRANSLATED IN LXX and their own.

Lol...going forth refers to ORIGIN but the ONLY God is the beginning (ORIGIN). So what about the second phrase? "FROM EVERLASTING" Does EVERLASTING mean ORIGIN too

Beside him AS A MASTER WORKER!

When He was actually not the one doing it according the that chapter.

The LXX directly said jesus is created ! Proverb 8:22 , do you agree?

The LXX directly said Jesus is from EVERLASTING Micah 5:1, do you agree?

Jozzy4:
I can see you are indeed a frustrated man , how does your post address the op , meanwhile regarding psalm 45:6,7 arent you aware that The renowned trinitarian Bible scholar, B. F. Westcott, wrote:

Yeah and I'll continue to be frustrated over the kingdom of darkness who trying to twist the Word of God.

The next thing is to run back to Scholars, please what does this scholar say about John 1:1 and Proverb 8:22?

" The LXX [Septuagint] admits of two renderings [at Ps. 45:6, 7] : [ho theos] can be taken as a vocative in both cases (`thy throne, O God, .... therefore, O God, thy God...') or it can be taken as the subject (or the predicate) in the first case ('God is Thy throne,' or `Thy throne is God...'), and in apposition to [ho theos sou] in The second case (`Therefore God, even Thy God...') .... It is scarcely possible that [elohim] in the original can Be addressed to the King. The presumption therefore is against the belief that [ho theos] is a vocative in the LXX [Septuagint]. Thus on the whole it seems BEST to Adopt in the first clause the rendering: `
God is thy Throne' (or, `Thy throne is God'), that is, `Thy kingdom Is founded upon God, the immovable Rock.'" -The Epistle to the Hebrews, London, 1889, pp. 25, 26.

I think you're missing the point here and this is another way to deviate from the point you raise in the OP.

The point here is HOW SEPTUAGINT LXX RENDERED A VERSE not HOW PEOPLE INTERPRETED IT? so if you can be fair enough I challenge you to provide how scholar, B. F. Westcott interpreted Proverbs 8:22 whether he interpreted it as the Wisdom being created or not

English Septuagint I read on Psalm 45 rendered it as "Thy throne, O God..." now compare this with how an organization rendered it in BOTH PSALM 45 and Hebrew 1 where the writer applied it to Jesus.

malvisguy212:
listen, Mary given birth to Jesus without the agency of a man proved Jesus exist long before he was born, that why john say "the word become flesh and dwell among us" and in john 3:16 it indicate, the birth of Jesus is a gift to the world. So this mean Mary was only the recipient of that gift. She is not the source of that gift.

MARY ! , so mary gave birth to Jesus before the oceans came into existence ? Proverb 8:24

Emusan:


Yeah and I'll continue to be frustrated over the kingdom of darkness who trying to twist the Word of God.

The next thing is to run back to Scholars, please what does this scholar say about John 1:1 and Proverb 8:22?



I think you're missing the point here and this is another way to deviate from the point you raise in the OP.

The point here is HOW SEPTUAGINT LXX RENDERED A VERSE not HOW PEOPLE INTERPRETED IT? so if you can be fair enough I challenge you to provide how scholar, B. F. Westcott interpreted Proverbs 8:22 whether he interpreted it as the Wisdom being created or not

English Septuagint I read on Psalm 45 rendered it as "Thy throne, O God..." now compare this with how an organization rendered it in BOTH PSALM 45 and Hebrew 1 where the writer applied it to Jesus.

Can you imagine the underlined ! The septuagint or english translation you read , had it been you paid attention to the literal rendering of that passage in the septuagint , you will realize why its said that the LXX greek admit two renderings

" the throne of you the God into the age of the age" .

This literal reading permit it to be rendered " God is thy throne" as seen in many english translations . And this is the most correct because the person been addressed has a God . (verse 9 ) .

How can God have a God ? God's God ? God annoint God ? God have God ? this is serious .

Jozzy4:


MARY ! , so mary gave birth to Jesus before the oceans came into existence ? Proverb 8:24

compear proverb 8:24 with Genesis 1:2, it say:
Now the earth was formless and empty,
darkness was over the surface of the
deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

The earth was formless and empty ,why ? Because the earth was NOT frame yet by the WORD (Jesus) , how the earth BEGAN to exist ? The answer is in Hebrew 11:3

" By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible."

The word was God,that was made flesh (john1:1) . Proverb 8:24 talk about Jesus pre-existence, men only BEGAN to see Him when He was given birth to. NO one has ever see Jesus in His true NATURE.
When I say given birth to I mean , when the father speak the word at his command.

malvisguy212:
compear proverb 8:24 with Genesis 1:2, it say:
Now the earth was formless and empty,
darkness was over the surface of the
deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

The earth was formless and empty ,why ? Because the earth was NOT frame yet by the WORD (Jesus) , how the earth BEGAN to exist ? The answer is in Hebrew 11:3

" By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible."

The word was God,that was made flesh (john1:1) . Proverb 8:24 talk about Jesus pre-existence, men only BEGAN to see Him when He was given birth to. NO one has ever see Jesus in His true NATURE.
When I say given birth to I mean , when the father speak the word at his command.

The given birth to in proverb 8:24 didnt happen when Mary gave birth to Jesus . The Oceans are formed then .

So explain how Jesus was given birth to with labour pains before the springs are formed ? Proverb 8:24

Emusan:


In the first place how do you know the organization I'm talking about?

You need more of basic English, I didn't compare the two verse BUT HOW THE VERSE WAS TRANSLATED IN LXX and their own.

Lol...going forth refers to ORIGIN but the ONLY God is the beginning (ORIGIN). So what about the second phrase? "FROM EVERLASTING" Does EVERLASTING mean ORIGIN too



When He was actually not the one doing it according the that chapter.



The LXX directly said Jesus is from EVERLASTING Micah 5:1, do you agree?

The greek word used in the LXX conveys " days of age" not everlasting ! Check Micah 7:14 where the same greek word appears in the septuagint , it doesnt mean isreal have been feeding on bashan and gilead from everlasting .
It depicts ancient times since the context indicates he has an ORIGIN .


Whereas the greek word used at proverb 8:22 directly mean CREATE ! LXX

Jozzy4:


Continue to contradict yourself

Proverb 8:22 said wisdom is possessed in the beginning

Proverb 8:24 said wisdom is brought forth /given birth to .

1. Can you give birth to what you already possess ? Funny

2. What does it mean that Jesus was given birth to ?

You appear to be eager to edit that passage.

Already I highlighted how 'brought forth' was repeated twice therein and also drew on a parallel verse in Psalm 139 to show that the word possess is used in relation to the 'brought forth' process. Thankfully, both passages were referring to living beings!

If you will single out 'possess' and throw away the 'brought forth' repeated twice, you are a free moral agent but you would have diminished from the word, deleting vs 24 and 25 because you feel your thinking supersedes the Word!!!

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