dalaman:


They all use the bible don't they? Pastor Oyaks gets his inspiration from the bible, so does the pope, TD Jakes and Kumuyi of deeper life and all other christian sects out there, yet their messages and doctrines are all contrary to each other. Have you ever seen any of them preach from any other book beside the bible? All the thousands of sect of christianity with different doctrines and theology all use the bible and make the same claim that the holy spirit ministers unto them. So what exactly are you talking about. Your confusion and delusion knows no end.

KingEbukasBlog:


Some people use the word "deluded" without even knowing it means :

We say God exists and 6.5 billion people out of a possible 7.2 billion know he exists because of the numerous physical/natural and supernatural evidences - supernatural encounters , miracles , NDEs , healings . The miserly <500 million who fail to acknowledge this hold a false belief and still remain obdurate about it without seeing the need why these myriad of people hold unto their belief - that's delusion or being deluded



It was a joke get over it . Sulking over a joke shows your level of maturity



Defending ? We have been giving a mandate and people like you who fail to see the reason why you should know the consequence of their actions . So there wouldn't be excuses when they face the punishments . Letting them know that they'll account for their actions here on earth and these punishments are deterrents for them to live a good life



This Supreme being - God - plays different roles all out once - Father , Judge , Creator , Miracle Worker , Guardian etc

A father wouldn't be mindful of his son's behavior ? As far as you are under the care of your dad , you play by his rules . Sulking or being rebellious over what daddy does not want you to do shows you are the one who is the child and not your dad . Your little fish brain does not see how powerful he is that he is so concerned about the way you live your life . Your little cockroach brain sees it as being childish . Again your little brain will see a rich dad who refuses to buy a toy for his kid at the mall as wicked or foolish . You fail to see his own reason for his action .

Better still you are so angry with Him for trying to restrain you from living the life you want to live . You ignorantly resent Him . But off course you can if you are willing to face the consequences of your actions - its that simple .

A Judge decides cases in a court . He issues whatever punishments to the offender supposedly according to his actions . If He sees you are evidently guilty he punishes you and if you are not he lets you go . At the end of your lifetime , this Being will be the Judge - to judge you according to your works .

Stop sulking and being rebellious and live a good godly life - its that simple .

PS : The Almighty owes you no explanation

Statement 1 :


@ bold Wow ! At least you admitted you had a small brain which presumably limits your ability to reason and draw logical conclusions
Statement 2 :


Looking at statement 1 and 2 , Frank317 possesses a troubled debased confused depraved mind . After typing this "well-thought-out " post , he failed utterly in drawing a logical conclusion - which proves he holds a false belief of the non-existence of a creator . At least I can draw the best inference with his first sentence on this post



Indeed you are deluded

dalaman:


They all use the bible don't they? Pastor Oyaks gets his inspiration from the bible, so does the pope, TD Jakes and Kumuyi of deeper life and all other christian sects out there, yet their messages and doctrines are all contrary to each other. Have you ever seen any of them preach from any other book beside the bible? All the thousands of sect of christianity with different doctrines and theology all use the bible and make the same claim that the holy spirit ministers unto them. So what exactly are you talking about. Your confusion and delusion knows no end.

shiinihost:


The road that leads to destruction is wide, vast and smooth.

That many people believe a concept doesn't make it true. Almost the whole world used to believe that the earth is flat.

All what I see from your arguments are pre-concieved ignorance. I'm a Christian But you are really not presenting sensible dissertation to this dialogue.

KingEbukasBlog:


He told you that the bible warns of false prophets obviously with false doctrines

Matthew 7:15

15 Beware of false prophets , which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.


... and you called him confused and deluded

You are the one confused ... very confused

shiinihost:


The road that leads to destruction is wide, vast and smooth.

That many people believe a concept doesn't make it true. Almost the whole world used to believe that the earth is flat.

All what I see from your arguments are pre-concieved ignorance. I'm a Christian But you are really not presenting sensible dissertation to this dialogue.

KingEbukasBlog:


Nice

So please where exactly ?

But I hope you are not Jehovah's witness ... just asking

shiinihost:


If all these men are false prophets, who then are the real prophets? No matter the doctrine you put out, you must find at least one Christian that would use the same bible and the same holy spirit to disprove you. If the Bible is the word of God, is the word of God confused?

winner01:
You might need to rephrase the bolded statement, Cos in your own words, billions of people around the world are nut cases. Thats very stup1d and myopic. You and the other minority atheists are the ones who need to check yourselves...

So which discovery of the following; Nicholas Copernicus, Sir Francis Bacon, Johannes
Kepler, Rene Descartes, Blaise Pascal, Isaac Newton, Robert Boyle, Michael Faraday, Gregor Mendel, William Thomson Kelvin, Max Planck. ran against their belief in God.

Hear what you say; I need to show you your Creator and describe Him to you. Use your brains please.

winner01:
The devil posed as a pro-God friend to Eve. So tell us what we need to know.

shiinihost:


I'm a Catholic. All your arguments.

A complex universe didn't come by itself, right? How come a complex God that made that universe just puffed out of nothing?

Like a Ferrari.... a super car....can it just be made by a JSS 1 naija guy? no it must be made my an even super team of engineers. and those engineers didn't just sleep and wake up super engineers.

KingEbukasBlog:


I never called anyone a false prophet . Some people bring up non-scriptural concepts of God's nature .

KingEbukasBlog:


God has always been existing

dalaman:


1. The majority of the people that believe in the Gods believe in different Gods and Goddesses. All of which depend on the place and family you are born into. Your God is a false God according to the beliefs of other people. Belief has nothing to do with reality and reality does not depend of what people believe neither does it also depend on the number of people that believe in anything. At a time most people believe that evil spirits causes diseases until someone discovered that diseases were caused by mindless microscopic organisms. Most people also believed the earth was the center of the universe until a single person against all odds showed people that they were wrong. Reality has nothing to do with belief, because about a 1.7 billion muslims believe that if you take pebbles and stone some elusive devil in Mecca you will prosper in all you do, but does the reality we see around us agree with that belief? Reality has nothing to do with numbers.

2. Which of their inventions or discoveries has anything to do with God? Where does your God mention gravity in his story book? A lot of Islamic, Hindus, Buddhist etc also made scientific discoveries that also had nothing to do with their religious beliefs. Science has nothing to do with any God. They did not read any part of the bible before they discovered anything, in fact all the things they discovered had nothing to do with all the myths and fiction written inside the bible. You think if the writes of the bible knew anything about gravity they wouldn't have included it inside their creation mythology?

3. Which creator are you talking about? My creator is Brahma, can you show that to be false?

winner01:
Show me where the Bible supports the pope or masturbation or forever remain silent. And please go look up the word delusion and confusion cos clearly you are unintelligent.
Since the universe created us, I posted a picture which you and your friends have kept mute to, answer it if you feel your brain is more developed than theirs

shiinihost:



pastor chris, TD Jake's, oyedepo, TB joshua all bring up non scriptural concepts?

Like seriously? Even the Catholic doctrines are also rubbished by holy spirit inspired Christians. So who then are we to believe?


This is the main reason Why I do not go to church.

shiinihost:


guess what? and So is the universe. How do you prove that God's being always existing? There surely must be a way to prove I somehow. Other than that, then it's an illusion we've all being alluded to.

KingEbukasBlog:


He told you that the bible warns of false prophets obviously with false doctrines

Matthew 7:15

15 Beware of false prophets , which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.


... and you called him confused and deluded

You are the one confused ... very confused

KingEbukasBlog:


How do you prove the universe has always been existing ?

KingEbukasBlog:


Do you worship your church or God ? Do you follow the teachings of Christ or of men ? If you are confused , pray to God to lead you in the right path . Bros why you dey for my hand na

Currently in south America , Catholicism is dying - for obvious reasons - and is a thing of worry to the pope . Pentecostalism is growing rapidly there . He visited there recently to address various issues though

dalaman:

Your picture is clearly thrash because I have never claimed that the universe created us or that if you throw grains sand into the air it will turn into a living being. Can you show me where any athiest here on naira land has ever made such a claim? You are obviously obtuse and not sound enough with this kind of ridiculous logic you are bandying.

KingEbukasBlog:


How do you prove the universe has always been existing ?

KingEbukasBlog:


If a creator did not create the living then the universe - according to its own will. You cant stand in between - its either God or the universe did .

shiinihost:


honestly I've being trying to follow the teachings of Christ. They sure do have powerful tenets to live by. As a philosophical book, it's a goldmine. But as a fact book? I guess not.

More that the philosophy, I need to know more about me and the life in living So I can find a more purposeful way to apply myself into making my world a better place.

shiinihost:


verifiable scientific methods have being innovated for this purpose. Keyword: verifiable.

KingEbukasBlog:


outline these methods

Many independent measurements have established that the Earth and the
universe are billions of years old. Geologists have found annual layers in
glaciers that can be counted back 740,000 years. Using the known rate of
change in radio-active elements (radiometric dating), some Earth rocks have
been shown to be billions of years old, while the oldest solar system rocks
are dated at 4.6 billion years. Astronomers use the distance to galaxies and
the speed of light to calculate that the light has been traveling for billions of
years. The expansion of the universe gives an age for the universe as a
whole: 13.7 billion years old.
In Detail
Introduction
Astronomers and geologists have determined that the universe and Earth are
billions of years old. This conclusion is not based on just one measurement
or one calculation, but on many types of evidence. Here we will describe just
two types of evidence for an old Earth and two types of evidence for an old
universe; more types can be found under Further Reading. These methods
are largely independent of each other, based on separate observations and
arguments, yet all point to a history much longer than 10,000 years. As
Christians, we believe that God created the world and that the world declares
his glory, so we can’t ignore what nature is telling us about its history.
Age of the Earth from seasonal rings and layers
If you’ve ever seen a horizontal slice of a tree trunk, you’ve seen how a tree
forms a new growth ring each year. In years of drought, the tree grows less
quickly so the ring is narrower; in good growing seasons the ring is thicker.
A tree’s age can be found by simply counting its rings. By comparing the
pattern of thick and thin rings to weather records, scientists can verify that
the method is accurate. This method can even be used on dead trees that
fell in a forest long ago. For example, the last 200 rings in the dead tree
might match up with 200 rings early in the life of the living tree, so the two
trees together can count back many years. In this way, multiple trees can be
used to build a master chronology for a forested region. European oak trees
have been used to build a 12,000-year chronology.
The annual ice layers in glaciers provide a similar method that goes back
much further in history. Each year, snowfall varies throughout the seasons
and an annual layer is formed. Like the tree rings, this method can be verified
by comparison to historical records for weather, as well as to records of
volcanic eruptions around the globe that left thin dust layers on the glaciers.
Scientists have drilled ice cores deep into glaciers and found ice that is
123,000 years old in Greenland and 740,000 years old in Antarctica. These
annual layers go back much farther than the 10,000 years advocated by the
young earth creationists. The Earth must be at least 740,000 years old.
Age of the Earth and solar system from radiometric dating
In your high school science classroom, you may have seen a large poster of
the periodic table hanging on the wall. The periodic table shows the types of
atoms that make up the world around us. An element in the periodic table
can come in different flavors called isotopes. Some isotopes are unstable,
and over time these isotopes “decay” into isotopes of other elements. For
example, Potassium-40 is unstable and decays into Argon-40. As time
passes, a rock will have more and more Argon-40 and less and less
Potassium-40. Radiometric dating is possible because this decay occurs at a
known rate, called the “half-life” of the radioactive element. The half-life is
the time that it takes for half the radioactive sample to change from one
element into the other.
Some isotopes have short half-lives of minutes or years, but Potassium-40
has a half-life of 1.3 billion years. Radiometric dating requires that one
understand the initial ratio of the two elements in a given sample by some
means. In this case, Argon-40 is a gas that easily bubbles out and escapes
when it is produced in molten rock. Once the rock hardens, however, all the
Argon-40 is trapped in the sample, giving us an accurate record of how
much Potassium-40 has decayed since that time. So, if we find a rock with
equal parts Potassium-40 and Argon-40, we know that half the
Potassium-40 has decayed into Argon-40, and that the rock hardened 1.3
billion years ago.
It’s hard to find rocks on the surface of the Earth that have not been altered
over time. Most old rocks have been eroded by wind and water or
submerged by continental plates. The oldest reliably dated rock formation is
in Greenland, where several different isotopes were used to find an age of 3.6
billion years. Scientists also recently dated zircon grains (which resist
erosion) in Western Australia to 4.4 billion years old. To find older rocks
that haven’t been eroded, we need to look beyond Earth. Meteorites are
rocks from the solar system that have fallen to Earth recently and haven’t
suffered much erosion. Their pristine interiors give an age that dates back to
their formation at the beginning of the solar system. Nearly all meteorites
have the same radiometric age, 4.56 billion years old. Thus, the solar
system, including the Earth, is about 4,560,000,000 years old.
Age of galaxies from the travel time of light
What about the ages of stars and galaxies, and the age of the whole
universe? One way to measure these ages is with the travel time of light.
Light travels incredibly fast – 300,000 kilometers per second, or 186,000
miles per second. On Earth, the delay due to light travel time is a tiny
fraction of a second. But in space, the distances are so vast that the light
takes a substantial amount of time to travel to us: 8.3 minutes from the Sun,
4.3 years from the nearest star, and about 8500 years from the center of the
Milky Way galaxy. That delay means that we don’t see these objects as they
are right now, but as they were when the light left. The universe actually
works as a sort of “time machine,” in which we can see into the past simply
by looking far away.
The calculation of the light travel time is simple once you know the speed of
light and have a measurement of the distance. The speed of light is well
known from experiments on Earth, and various astronomical observations
confirm that the speed of light has not changed over the history of the
universe. But measuring distances in astronomy is not trivial – you can’t
just string a measuring tape from here to the center of the galaxy! Instead,
astronomers use several interlocking methods to determine the distances,
such as geometric calculations and brightness measurements. For example,
some galaxies look much smaller and fainter than other galaxies of the same
kind, showing they are much further away.
The Andromeda galaxy, a near neighbor to our own Milky Way galaxy, is 2.3
million light years away. That is, we are seeing it as it was 2.3 million years
ago. But that is just our local neighborhood. In recent decades, astronomers
have detected galaxies located several billion light years away. If the light
has been traveling billions of years to reach us, then the universe must be at
least that old. This is completely independent of radiometric dating of the
solar system, but both methods point to an age of billions of years, not
thousands.
Age of the universe from expansion
Not only can astronomers measure the distance of galaxies, they can
measure how galaxies are moving. Galaxies are not holding still in space, nor
are they moving randomly. Some galaxies are moving towards their
neighbors, attracted by their mutual gravity. But the biggest pattern we see
is that galaxies are moving apart from one another. This motion apart is not
all at the same speed; instead it follows a pattern where galaxies that are
further apart are moving more quickly.
This particular pattern indicates the whole universe is expanding. To see
why, consider a loaf of raisin bread. The raisins are like galaxies and the
dough is like the fabric of space in the universe. As the dough rises, it carries
the raisins along, pulling them apart from each other. Raisins that started
out on opposite sides of the loaf will be a few inches farther apart after the
dough rises, while raisins that started out near each other may only move
half an inch. So, the speed of their motion is proportional to the separation
between them. In the same way, the space of the universe pulls galaxies
further apart as the universe expands.
Astronomers detect a galaxy’s motion by looking at its light spectrum. When
a galaxy is carried away by the expansion of space, its light waves are
stretched out, making it appear redder. The change in the galaxy’s color is
called the red shift, and can be used to calculate its velocity. From the
measurements of many galaxies, astronomers can accurately measure the
expansion rate of the universe as a whole.
The age of universe can be determined by imaging what the universe looked
like in the past, “rewinding” the expansion. In the past the galaxies must
have been closer together, and in the distant past they would have been
packed together in a tiny point. If we assume that the expansion rate is
constant over time, the age for the universe as a whole is about 10 billion
years. However, astronomers have been working over the last 20 years to
determine how the expansion rate changes with time. We now know that
early in the universe the expansion was slowing down, but now it is speeding
up. Using careful measurements of this change in expansion rate, the age of
the universe is now known quite precisely to be 13.7±0.13 billion years.

Conclusion

Many different and complementary scientific measurements have established
with near certainty that the universe and the Earth are billions of years old.
Layers in glaciers show a history much longer than 10,000 years, and
radiometric dating places the formation of the Earth at 4.5 billion years.
Light from galaxies is reaching us billions of years after it left, and the
expansion rate of the universe dates its age to 13.7 billion years.

shiinihost:


dude I'm a Catholic seeking to solidify my faith.....That's If it's worth it.

dalaman:


It is not God or nothing. [size=16pt]I do not know and as such I will not make any assumption. I will wait till evidence is provided[/size] you claim a God you can not even describe created the universe and you can not even provide a single evidence for it. All you have are just some assumptions. If I say that the universe was created by a group of Gods that later died or left like some deist believe where is your evidence to show that it is not true?

respect80:


If you know this, then why are you so obsessed about God's existence perhaps this same scientists may discover the truth sooner or later...

dalaman:


I am not obsessed with God's existence, I am obsessed with human beings that buy into the idea. Gods do not exist, but humans that think and assume that Gods exist is whom I interact with. [size=16pt]Scientist will never discover any God,[/size] not the Gods of man made religions, those Gods are all man made.

AMP And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God or consider Him worth knowing [as their Creator], God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do things which are improper and repulsive

winner01:
you're seeking to solidify religion. Ill handle you and the others when i return from service.

shiinihost:




The universe is as old as time itself.

How do we measure the age of Go?

shiinihost:


handle? That's a strong world. I Don't think you have what it takes. you keep going round in circles, dribbling yourself and discreetly accepting your ignorance. You've not made a single viable point here.

KingEbukasBlog:


Lol

Sorry for the laughter .

13. 7 billion years old shows it has a beginning . God has no beginning because He is outside time.