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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Islam for Muslims / Stoning At Jamarat Is Not Stoning Shaytaan (1219 Views)
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Stoning At Jamarat Is Not Stoning Shaytaan by closetoyou(f): 4:45pm On Sep 29, 2015 |
Stoning the Jamaraat is not stoning the Shaytan!Explained by Shaykh UthaymeenMany of the common people believe that stoning the Jamaraat is stoning the Shaytan. And they say: ‘Verily we will stone the Shaytan’. And you will find some of the people coming with extreme violence, anger and rage, shouting, cursing and insulting these Jamaraat; and with Allah refuge is sought. It is to the extent that before the bridge was built around the Jamaraat I saw a man and his wife standing in the gravel using their sandals or their shoes to beat this fixed column while they were insulting and cursing it. And what is amazing is that the stones (thrown by others) were hitting them and they did not care about this. And this is from great ignorance.Indeed the stoning of the Jamaraat is a great act of worship.The Messenger of Allah peace be upon him said about it:إِنَّمَا جُعِلَ الطَّوَافُ بِالْبَيْتِ وَبَيْنَ الصَّفَا وَالْمَرْوَةِ وَرَمْيُ الْجِمَارِ لِإِقَامَةِ ذِكْرِ اللَّهِ“Tawaaf around the House and (Saa’i) between al-Safa and al-Marwah and the stoning of the Jamaraat have only been prescribed so that remembrance of Allah will be established.” (Sunan Abi Dawud 1888)This is the wisdom for these Jamaraat. For this reason the person says ‘Allahu Akbar’ with every stone’s thrown. He does not say, ‘I seek refuge with Allah from the accused Shaytan.’ Rather he says, ‘Allahu Akbar’; exalting Allah the One who prescribed stoning these Jamarat.And it is in reality—meaningthe stoning of the Jamaraat—the utmost devotion and humility to Allah the Exalted. This is because the person does not know the wisdom for stoning these Jamaraat in these places except that it is general devotion to Allah the Exalted, and the person submitting to the obedience to Allah, thus it is the utmost in humility and devotion.As it relates to acts of worship; some acts of worship the wisdom behind it is known to us and it is apparent, thus the person submits to it worshipping Allah and obeying Him, and then following what he knows of it benefits. And there are some acts of worship in which the wisdom behind it is not known; but the fact that Allah ordered with it, and to devote oneself to it is worship; this is wisdom. As Allah the Exalted said:وَمَا كَانَ لِمُؤْمِنٍ وَلَا مُؤْمِنَةٍ إِذَا قَضَى اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ أَمْرًا أَنْ يَكُونَ لَهُمُ الْخِيَرَةُ مِنْ أَمْرِهِمْIt is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. (Soorah Al Ahzab 33:36)And that which occurs in the heart from turning to Allah withrepentance and devotion, humility, and acknowledging the perfection of the Lord and the deficiency of the slave and his complete need of his Lord; this is from the greatest and best benefits.Questioner: Isn’t this the place where Shaytan stood appearing to Ibrahim Al Khaleel peace be upon him?Shaykh Uthaymeen: This has been narrated in a hadith and Allah knows best concerning its authenticity. Even if we say it is authentic, this does not mean we do that as it was done by Ibrahim. Do you see that the origin of the Saa’i between al-Safa and al-Marwah is the Saa’i of the mother of Ismael after they were stricken with hunger and thirst, thus she began searching to see if anyone was in the area. We do notperform Saa’i for this purpose, we only perform Saa’i as worship of Allah the Exalted, and to exalted Him, and draw near to Him, so He may forgive us and have mercy upon us. Therefore even if the origin of an act of worship was for a particular reason it is not binding that this reason remain until the Day of Judgment.[ Narrated by At Tabaraani, Al Haakim, and Al Baahayqi from the hadith of Ibn Abbas: When the Khaleel of Allah came to perform the rites, Shaytan appeared to him at the Jamarat ofAl ‘Aqabah thus he threw seven stones at him until he sank into the earth. Then he appeared to him at the second Jamarat, so he threw seven stones at him until he sank into the earth. |
Re: Stoning At Jamarat Is Not Stoning Shaytaan by alexis(m): 5:14pm On Sep 29, 2015 |
If stoning satan is an act of worship as you claim, can you throw light on the following: 1. Why do we have to go to mecca alone to perform this worship? satan is a jinn, he is not physical even though he can take physical forms 2. Did Allah ever instruct muslims to do such? The Quran is the ultimate and final authority on everything Islamic. Allah never endorsed such practice. Hundreds of million of muslims travel to mecca to perform these rites; the kissing of stones and other forms of worship of inanimate objects. Allah forbids such in Surah 5:90 and Surah 21:66 However, Muhammad kissed and worshiped these objects in Mecca directly disobeying Allah. The question now is - is Mohammad word greater than that of Allah instructions of Allah? 1 Like |
Re: Stoning At Jamarat Is Not Stoning Shaytaan by Nobody: 5:34pm On Sep 29, 2015 |
alexis:hmm, this ur conclusiob sha.! if i may ask, are u muslim or non muslim? Cos u dont semm knowledeablevenough to have the authority to proclaim such judgements |
Re: Stoning At Jamarat Is Not Stoning Shaytaan by alexis(m): 7:40pm On Sep 29, 2015 |
enieme: My conclusion? So, what is written in the Quran is now my conclusion abi? Have I stated or written anything that is incorrect? I don't seem knowledgeable to pass judgments? What is wrong with you? I am stating what the Quran said and the authentic narrative from Al-Bukhari on the events discussed; can't you review what I have said and let Allah guide you to draw the right conclusion? Why are you being biased even before you looked at the evidence? I am a human being, I believe in Almighty God and His prophets - you go figure whether I am a muslim or not 1 Like |
Re: Stoning At Jamarat Is Not Stoning Shaytaan by Proffdada: 12:40pm On Sep 30, 2015 |
so who is being stoned out of confusion? |
Re: Stoning At Jamarat Is Not Stoning Shaytaan by alexis(m): 6:06am On Oct 01, 2015 |
Proffdada: satan is the one being stoned |
Re: Stoning At Jamarat Is Not Stoning Shaytaan by carinmom(f): 6:26pm On Oct 04, 2015 |
alexis: If truly you are a muslim, why are you claiming that the Prophet SAW disobeyed Allah? You know that could get you out of Islam. |
Re: Stoning At Jamarat Is Not Stoning Shaytaan by Demmzy15(m): 6:41pm On Oct 04, 2015 |
It is to the extent that before the bridge was built around the Jamaraat I saw a man and his wife standing in the gravel using their sandals or their shoes to beat this fixed column while they were insulting and cursing it. And what is amazing is that the stones (thrown by others) were hitting them and they did not care about this. Wallahi Sheikh Al-Uthaymin had some humour, very funny but true. ![]() 1 Like |
Re: Stoning At Jamarat Is Not Stoning Shaytaan by personal59: 7:47am On Oct 05, 2015 |
alexis: Pls where do u see ur own quran nd its meaning Qr 21 vs 66 suratul al-anbiya says: he said, "then do you worship instead of Allah that which does not benefit you at all or harm you? Nd it is explaining what happen between Ibrahim and his family. Qr 5 vs 90 suratul Al-Ma'idah says: o you who have believed, indeed, intoxicants, gambling, (sacrificing on) stone alters (to other than Allah) and defining arrows are but defilement from the work of satan, so avoid it that you may be successful. So what's d correlation with the hadith u quote which is not even completed my dear if u want to know more abt islam move closer to d knowledgeable ones and not under d tree discussion sorry if I sound harsh but that's d truth. |
Re: Stoning At Jamarat Is Not Stoning Shaytaan by alexis(m): 6:56pm On Oct 05, 2015 |
carinmom: Brain-washed individual. Did Allah tell us to worship any objects? Is the prophet greater than Allah? |
Re: Stoning At Jamarat Is Not Stoning Shaytaan by carinmom(f): 7:06pm On Oct 05, 2015 |
alexis:He is Allah's messenger and definitely the best of mankind. Salaam |
Re: Stoning At Jamarat Is Not Stoning Shaytaan by alexis(m): 7:20pm On Oct 05, 2015 |
personal59 Pls where do u see ur own quran nd its meaning I read the same Quran you read Qr 21 vs 66 suratul al-anbiya says: he said, "then do you worship instead of Allah that which does not benefit you at all or harm you? That is true and I am not doubting that. What I am saying is that Allah give instructions to Ibrahim first and then to all Muslims including the prophet not to worship any idol or stone. Here is the full context from Surah 21:55-66: [b]And certainly We gave to Ibrahim his rectitude before, and We knew him fully well. When he said to his father and his people: What are these images to whose worship you cleave? They said: We found our fathers worshiping them. He said: Certainly you have been, (both) you and your fathers, in manifest error. They said: Have you brought to us the truth, or are you one of the triflers? He said: Nay! your Lord is the Lord of the heavens and the earth, Who brought them into existence, and I am of those who bear witness to this: And, by Allah! I will certainly do something against your idols after you go away, turning back. So he broke them into pieces, except the chief of them, that haply they may return to it. They said: Who has done this to our gods? Most surely he is one of the unjust. They said: We heard a youth called Ibrahim speak of them. Said they: Then bring him before the eyes of the people, perhaps they may bear witness. They said: Have you done this to our gods, O Ibrahim? He said: Surely (some doer) has done it; the chief of them is this, therefore ask them, if they can speak. Then they turned to themselves and said: Surely you yourselves are the unjust; Then they were made to hang down their heads: Certainly you know that they do not speak. He said: What! do you then serve besides Allah what brings you not any benefit at all, nor does it harm you? Fie on you and on what you serve besides Allah; what! do you not then understand? They said: Burn him and help your gods, if you are going to do (anything). S. 21:51-66 Shakir[/b] The verse 66 clearly states; "Do you then worship beside GOD what possesses no power to benefit you or harm you?" S. 21:66 Khalifa Allah has told us never to worship - "ANYTHING", no matter what it is except Him. He is the Almighty and no stone can represent Him. This is what I am trying to explain to you guys. So, except you are saying this is not the word of Allah or you are saying it's not true. Is that what you are saying? Qr 5 vs 90 suratul Al-Ma'idah says: o you who have believed, indeed, intoxicants, gambling, (sacrificing on) stone alters (to other than Allah) and defining arrows are but defilement from the work of satan, so avoid it that you may be successful Surah 5:90 has instructed Muslims that any kind of worship to anything else other than Allah is the work of satan. Is Allah in the stone in Meccah? Where in the Koran did Allah tell us as Muslims to kiss or worship any object apart from Himself? You are ignoring the Quran and the implication it has. Look at what Al-Bukhari said: Narrated Salim that his father said: I saw Allah’s Apostle arriving at Mecca; he kissed the Black Stone Corner first while doing Tawaf and did ramal in the first three rounds of the seven rounds (of Tawaf). (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 26, Number 673) Here is another one: Narrated ‘Abis bin Rabia: ‘Umar came near the Black Stone and kissed it and said, "No doubt, I know that you are a stone AND CAN NEITHER BENEFIT ANYONE NOR HARM ANYONE. Had I not seen Allah’s Apostle kissing you I would not have kissed you." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 26, Number 667) Here is Umar saying the samething - I know it's wrong to kiss and worship stone but because the prophet did it; I am doing it as well. Narrated Zaid bin Aslam from his father who said: "Umar bin Al-Khattab addressed the Corner (Black Stone) saying, ‘By Allah! I know that you are a stone AND CAN NEITHER BENEFIT NOR HARM. Had I not seen the Prophet touching (and kissing) you, I would never have touched (and kissed) you.’ Then he kissed it and said, ‘There is no reason for us to do Ramal (in Tawaf) except that we wanted to show off before the pagans, and now Allah has destroyed them.’ ‘Umar added, ‘(Nevertheless), the Prophet did that and we do not want to leave it (i.e. Ramal).’" (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 26, Number 675) Here it is again. So my friend; perhaps you are the one that doesn't know how to read your Quran and the Hadith. Idolatry in Islam is a sin against Allah. |
Re: Stoning At Jamarat Is Not Stoning Shaytaan by alexis(m): 7:21pm On Oct 05, 2015 |
carinmom: You didn't answer me - is he greater than Allah? |
Re: Stoning At Jamarat Is Not Stoning Shaytaan by personal59: 5:36am On Oct 06, 2015 |
alexis: Mr u are mixing the point here he kissed d stone doesn't mean he worship it get that right if u adore something it doesn't mean u worship d stuff now haba unless u have something else u want to prove o bt with this nah u get it wrong the prophet never worship it |
Re: Stoning At Jamarat Is Not Stoning Shaytaan by alexis(m): 6:42am On Oct 06, 2015 |
personal59: Let me get this straight - millions and probably a billion Muslims travel from all over the world every year to one stone that is in Meccah (in the process they enrich the Saudi Monarch) to kiss a particular stone and you call that what? Kissing an object that everybody kisses is a sign of respect, reverence and worship. The idea is that you have given an object more respect than anything else. Only Allah should have our respect or worship. If there was a certain tree in your village that all Nigerians visited every year and paid hundred of thousands of naira to touch it and kiss it and pray to it - you will call that adoration? Only Almighty God demands our adoration, no one else. The problem here is that Muslims like you will not think objectively. Thousands of Muslims die so often at this event especially at the stoning of satan that it has become a night-mare. satan is a jinn; he is not a physical being so I find it hard to understand why supposedly intelligent muslims think they are stoning satan. I am sure he has the best laugh every year because it is muslims that die in the hundreds and thousands when they go to stone him because he is never there. Also, Allah never instructed this - never! This pagan ritual was incorporated into Islam and it hurts me because only Allah should be worship and no one else. Allah never told mohammed or anyone else to kiss the Kabbah or adore it; he expressly and explicitly forbid it. May God Almighty guide the ignorant |
Re: Stoning At Jamarat Is Not Stoning Shaytaan by personal59: 7:54am On Oct 06, 2015 |
alexis: Its not writing anywhere that if u don't touch or kiss it it invalidate ur hajj anyhow sha Ur opinion and understanding is urs and only urs and likewise mine and I don't force it on u just saying mine base on what I know and trying to let u see it from different perspective and so far u are bent on urs I don't think u should av mk it look like u want to rub mind at first so brother thanks for ur time am not quoting u to open ground for argument bt for us to learn bt think I got it all wrong may Allah be with us all and increase our knowledge and understanding in his deen thanks once again brother as salam alaykum waramotulah wabarakatu |
Re: Stoning At Jamarat Is Not Stoning Shaytaan by alexis(m): 8:42am On Oct 06, 2015 |
personal59: May Allah open our eyes to the truth that He wants us to see - salam alaykum waramotulah wabarakatu |
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