Garri no get advertisement, but E sell pass indomie.


Religious evangelism and apostasy don't seize to amaze me. Christians definitely do not want atheists, buddhists, Mormons, etc. converting them to their world views, yet they see no problem evangelizing. Really, this goes for everyone; I do not want to single out Christianity.

Muslims are so curious to welcoming the day the whole heads on the planet earth will be Allah's minions.

To be fare enough, If atheists do not want Christians converting them to Christianity, then why do they try to convert Christians to atheism? (Some atheists do this, and I do not understand it). You get my point – trying to conform people to your beliefs and worldview (regardless of those beliefs) when you do not want the same to be done to you is hypocritical. Moreover atheism entails just disbelief in god/s claims. Positive atheism advocates rationally and voluntarily becoming an atheist(disbelieving) after being convinced of the crappy ideas of religion. I envisioned the reasons why some atheists do engage in such hypocrisy, it is a kind of fighting back mechanism against Christians evangelical disturbances and interferences to public affairs.



Gold, a precious heavy yellow elemental metal of great value. I had a dream yesterday night, there was this scene where some persons were begging and convincing huge cloud of people to come and claim a huge pack of gold but in reality, such phenomenon is far fetch.
Precious and good news about a god or gods, claimed to be more valuable than gold should be an object of strife by people to attain and sustain rather than a struggle to indoctrinate, convince and coax people into joining and believing such concepts.

Christian apostasy

Apostasy is a theological category describing those who have voluntarily and consciously abandoned their faith in the God of the covenant, who manifests himself most completely in Jesus Christ. The punishment for apostasy in Christianity is death and curse.

Deuteronomy 13:6-11
If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter or the wife you embrace or your friend who is as your own soul entices you secretly, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which neither you nor your fathers have known, some of the gods of the peoples who are around you, whether near you or far off from you, from the one end of the earth to the other, you shall not yield to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him. But you shall kill him. Your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. ...

2 chronicles 15 :13
But that whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman.

Other similar verses that bears death sentence or curse

Hebrews 10:26-29
2 Timothy 3:1-9
Hebrews 3:12
Etc

Apostasy in islam

The apostasy in islam is death

Bukhari, volume 9, #17
"Narrated Abdullah: Allah's Messenger said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Messenger, cannot be shed except in three cases: in Qisas (equality in punishment) for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (Apostate) and leaves the Muslims.


"Whosoever turns back from his belief (irtada), openly or secretly, take him and kill him wheresoever ye find him, like any other infidel.


Other religious believes have their various punishments awaiting any possible apostates.

Human brain (and other animals) are predisposed to go after things that are beneficial to their welfare and wellbeing. Human and other animals species look for food even against all odds.

Religion is the only proclaimed beneficial and benevolent concept or idea that human don't discretionarily go into without some forces compelling them to do so. Those forces can range from indoctrination, forced worship, disingenuousness, threats and many other mechanisms it left at it doorstep.


If religion is such a force for good and an ideal, worthy of acceptance, shouldn't we be the ones to willfully embrace it rather than the other way round.
I doubt if there could ever be any sane mind that will be left behind in the pursuit of such over exaggerated concept of a god and religion.


djdoxxx

Kai, these theists are cruel. WTF? They actually want to kill people for not believing in their imaginations.

Chai!

OP, you are misquoting Christianity. what you read was an old testament law practiced by Judaists as recorded in the bible in the new testament, Jesus said, love your enemies, bless those that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them that despitefully use you and persecute you.." (Matthew 5:44). Jesus corrected and balanced the scriptures.

so your notion of Christians killing or hating unbelievers is a LIE, Jesus our lord never commanded us to do such. we are Christians, christian means Christlike, we are followers of Christ. APOSTACY has consequences, but killing and hating those involved is OUT OF IT.

stop misrepresenting christianity....its called blackmail....STOP IT!

SonOfEl:
OP, you are misquoting Christianity. what you read was an old testament law practiced by Judaists as recorded in the bible in the new testament, Jesus said, love your enemies, bless those that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them that despitefully use you and persecute you.." (Matthew 5:44). Jesus corrected and balanced the scriptures.

so your notion of Christians killing or hating unbelievers is a LIE, Jesus our lord never commanded us to do such. we are Christians, christian means Christlike, we are followers of Christ. APOSTACY has consequences, but killing and hating those involved is OUT OF IT.

stop misrepresenting christianity....its called blackmail....STOP IT!

Lol. If the old testament is irrelevant then why is it still a part of the bible?

hahn:


Lol. If the old testament is irrelevant then why is it still a part of the bible?

because it gives a historical and symbolic view of God's dealings with his people. the new testament means the new covenant. old testament means old covenant. Jesus came to fulfil the law by becoming the sacrifice for sins, thus ushering us into the new covenant.

the old covenant allows us to see the terrible weight of sin through its consequences by the law, while the new covenant allows us to appreciate the power of mercy and grace to live above sin or anything abominable before the sight of God.

SonOfEl:


because it gives a historical and symbolic view of God's dealings with his people. the new testament means the new covenant. old testament means old covenant. Jesus came to fulfil the law by becoming the sacrifice for sins, thus ushering us into the new covenant.

the old covenant allows us to see the terrible weight of sin through its consequences by the law, while the new covenant allows us to appreciate the power of mercy and grace to live above sin or anything abominable before the sight of God.

This is confusing. God is supposed to be the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. Are you trying to say that after givin those commandments in the old testament, he changed , realised that his commandments were too brutal and inhuman and sent his son to earth to die for sins that are still committed today?

You make it sound like god is confused

hahn:


This is confusing. God is supposed to be the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. Are you trying to say that after givin those commandments in the old testament, he changed , realised that his commandments were too brutal and inhuman and sent his son to earth to die for sins that are still committed today?

You make it sound like god is confused

No. He isn't. his actions in the old testament only shows HOW GRAVE the consequences of sin can be, so that we won't take his grace in the new testament for granted. if you don't know the how grave the weight of being guilty is, you won't appreciate the power of grace and mercy. if you don't fall sick or have life threatening diseases, you WONT REALLYVappreciate the importance of medicine. got it?

SonOfEl:


No. He isn't. his actions in the old testament only shows HOW GRAVE the consequences of sin can be, so that we won't take his grace in the new testament for granted. if you don't know the how grave the weight of being guilty is, you won't appreciate the power of grace and mercy. if you don't fall sick or have life threatening diseases, you WONT REALLYVappreciate the importance of medicine. got it?

That's true.

But he created sin, why then should I be punished for it?

hahn:


That's true.

But he created sin, why then should I be punished for it?

No he didn't. Satan conceived it. freewill gives one the right to chose good or bad and bear their respective consequences. just as a bleeding nose is a natural consequence of ones nose being punched, so is death the natural consequence of sin.

GOD REPRESENTS ALL THAT IS GOOD, ANY CHOICE MADE OUTSIDE HIM BECOMES EVIL, AND SATAN CHOSE THE LATER.

SonOfEl:


No he didn't. Satan conceived it. freewill gives one the right to chose good or bad and bear their respective consequences. just as a bleeding nose is a natural consequence of ones nose being punched, so is death the natural consequence of sin.

GOD REPRESENTS ALL THAT IS GOOD, ANY CHOICE MADE OUTSIDE HIM BECOMES EVIL, AND SATAN CHOSE THE LATER.

How can Satan chose something that doesn't exist? If god didn't create sin(he created all things, right) satan wouldn't have sinned. God is actually responsible for satan's problems.

Besides, god is both good and evil. Not so?

hahn:


How can Satan chose something that doesn't exist? If god didn't create sin(he created all things, right) satan wouldn't have sinned. God is actually responsible for satan's problems.

Besides, god is both good and evil. Not so?

No. anything that is NOT good, IS bad. any thing that has the absence of good, is bad. BAD means THE ABSENCE OF GOOD.

God giving us the freewill to make decisions does not make him responsible for our actions, we are responsible for our own actions. for instance, in your country, when the law of the constitution highlights ALL that makes you a GOOD citizen, and you do the exact opposite, is your country responsible for YOUR action?

SonOfEl:


No. anything that is NOT good, IS bad. any thing that has the absence of good, is bad. BAD means THE ABSENCE OF GOOD.

God giving us the freewill to make decisions does not make him responsible for our actions, we are responsible for our own actions. for instance, in your country, when the law of the constitution highlights ALL that makes you a GOOD citizen, and you do the exact opposite, is your country responsible for YOUR action?

Of course I am responsible for my actions. But the government didn't create the sins, god did. If your android phone blows up in your pocket as a result of a malfunction won't the manufacturing company take responsibility for it?

hahn:


Of course I am responsible for my actions. But the government didn't create the sins, god did. If your android phone blows up in your pocket as a result of a malfunction won't the manufacturing company take responsibility for it?

...that is, if I had a manual for the android but neglected its instructions, then its my fault, not the company's. company give manuals for complex or important devices, or don't you agree?

also, God has a manual he placed in us alongside freewill. its our responsibility whatever we make of the freewill.

LASTLY, freewill is not a licence to sin. Grace is not a license to commit sin and apologize later, (after all, God is gracious and merciful right?) besides, the last example you gave refers to we (now) imperfect humans, how much more a perfect being who created everything good and give it a 'manual' to remain good?

hahn:


Lol. If the old testament is irrelevant then why is it still a part of the bible?

I just laugh when christians disown the old testament, even though the old testament is used every single hour to evangelize.

The other day, one of my christian friends, after being cornered with biblical verses, finally admitted that god had REPENTED in the new testament.

I couldn't believe my ears.

SonOfEl:


...that is, if I had a manual for the android but neglected its instructions, then its my fault, not the company's. company give manuals for complex or important devices, or don't you agree?

also, God has a manual he placed in us alongside freewill. its our responsibility whatever we make of the freewill.

LASTLY, freewill is not a licence to sin. Grace is not a license to commit sin and apologize later, (after all, God is gracious and merciful right?) besides, the last example you gave refers to we (now) imperfect humans, how much more a perfect being who created everything good and give it a 'manual' to remain good?

Isaiah 45:7

KJV: I formed the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the lord do all this things.

NIV: I formed the light and create darkness: I bring prosperity and create disaster: I, the lord do all these thing.

NLT: I create the light and make the darkness. I send good times and bad times. I, the lord, am the one who does all these things.

ASV: I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace, and create evil. I'm jehovah, that doeth all these thing.

So, explain that

plaetton:


I just laugh when christians disown the old testament, even though the old testament is used every single hour to evangelize.

The other day, one of my christian friends, after being cornered with biblical verses, finally admitted that god had REPENTED in the new testament.

I couldn't believe my ears.

Stop! Don't kill me. Lol

He had a change of heart

Hahahahahahahaha

I wish all these consumers of religion would ask themselves why a self-evident creator of the universe should be Marketed like a fake product of late night infomercials.

Things that have real value, like the op rightly pointed out, do not need aggresive (in the case of Abrahamic religions, often bloody) perpetual marketing campaigns.

I still, for all my adult life, haven't figured WHY I need to believe that god exists, without any proof.

hahn:


Isaiah 45:7

KJV: I formed the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the lord do all this things.

NIV: I formed the light and create darkness: I bring prosperity and create disaster: I, the lord do all these thing.

NLT: I create the light and make the darkness. I send good times and bad times. I, the lord, am the one who does all these things.

ASV: I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace, and create evil. I'm jehovah, that doeth all these thing.

So, explain that

I think you need to balance these scripture.

check out Ezekiel 28:15, Ezekiel 14:2-5, Leviticus 20:26, 1 john 1:5, James 1:13-15,

when you balance these scriptures, you will understand that God created satan and also freewill, that is why he claims responsibility for evil, yet, God is NOT evil, NEITHER DID HE IMPUTE EVIL IN SATAN, Satan simply chose evil.

also, freewill tests our faithfulness. you being around ladies and yet not being unfaithful to your spouse makes you worthy of her and earns her love right? so it is with us and God. the CHOICE of evil was there and Satan took it. mind you, taking it MEANS ignoring that which is good. its not that there is a created thing called evil, NO. absence of good IS evil

SonOfEl:


I think you need to balance these scripture.

check out Ezekiel 28:15, Ezekiel 14:2-5, Leviticus 20:26, 1 john 1:5, James 1:13-15,

when you balance these scriptures, you will understand that God created satan and also freewill, that is why he claims responsibility for evil, yet, God is NOT evil, NEITHER DID HE IMPUTE EVIL IN SATAN, Satan simply chose evil.

also, freewill tests our faithfulness. you being around ladies and yet not being unfaithful to your spouse makes you worthy of her and earns her love right? so it is with us and God. the CHOICE of evil was there and Satan took it. mind you, taking it MEANS ignoring that which is good. its not that there is a created thing called evil, NO. absence of good IS evil

Balance the scriptures?

God created evil. It's his responsibility. Why didn't he create good and leave it at that. First, he created evil, put it in satan and when the guy misbehaved he punished him. Satan is actually the victim of this story and god is the true evil one here

hahn:


Balance the scriptures?

God created evil. It's his responsibility. Why didn't he create good and leave it at that. First, he created evil, put it in satan and when the guy misbehaved he punished him. Satan is actually the victim of this story and god is the true evil one here

I MEANT BALANCING YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE SCRIPTURES. have you read those scripture I listed? you shouldn't cherry pick a portion of the bible and use it out of context.

SonOfEl:


I MEANT BALANCING YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE SCRIPTURES. have you read those scripture I listed? you shouldn't cherry pick a portion of the bible and use it out of context.

Please, stop projecting contradictions as "balance".

God is perfect but he created an imperfect world.

God is good but evil.

God created sin but will punish us for sin.

God loves us but will burn us in hell fire if we don't love him back.

God performed miracles 2000years ago but couldn't avert the disaster in SCOAN or even the disaster in Saudi Arabia.

God created a physical world but can't be seen.

These are contradictions and not balances

hahn:


Please, stop projecting contradictions as "balance".

God is perfect but he created an imperfect world.

God is good but evil.

God created sin but will punish us for sin.

God loves us but will burn us in hell fire if we don't love him back.

God performed miracles 2000years ago but couldn't avert the disaster in SCOAN or even the disaster in Saudi Arabia.

God created a physical world but can't be seen.

These are contradictions and not balances

why are you still hitting and dancing around that quotation? IS THAT HOW YOU READ THE SCRIPTURE? if so, then you have missed it completely. Or were you all this time looking for a perceived loophole to hit at? pls balance your method of reading. THE BIBLE IS NOT SOME NOVEL, pls read the scriptures I have given you before commenting...

SonOfEl:


why are you still hitting and dancing around that quotation? IS THAT HOW YOU READ THE SCRIPTURE? if so, then you have missed it completely. Or were you all this time looking for a perceived loophole to hit at? pls balance your method of reading. THE BIBLE IS NOT SOME NOVEL, pls read the scriptures I have given you before commenting...

Indeed, the bible is not a novel. If it was, it would have made more sense.

hahn:


Indeed, the bible is not a novel. If it was, it would have made more sense.

....coming from a mind that lacks spirituality.... I understand your ignorance.

SonOfEl:


....coming from a mind that lacks spirituality.... I understand your ignorance.

Ignorance?

Coming from a guy who believes in fairy tales

hahn:


Ignorance?

Coming from a guy who believes in fairy tales

really? so it was not all about trying to understand all this while, it was all about looking for 'loopholes' to downplay God.....anyway, am not here to throw torrents of rants at you...if you truly studied the scriptures I gave you, you would have your question answered, but of course, what you wanted all along was to downplay scripture.... sorry, it won't fly...

GOD IS LOVE, REJECTING HIM MEANS EMBRACING HATE. SATAN REJECTED GOD, THUS HATE WAS BORN!

SonOfEl:
GOD IS LOVE, REJECTING HIM MEANS EMBRACING HATE. SATAN REJECTED GOD, THUS HATE WAS BORN!

It piss off whenever i hear people who really understand what love is, how we feel love and affection to our fellow human, even to other animals species will start to formulate a difference sort of "love" to address a nonsensical stuffs. We all feel love, stop eventing another set of love we don't feel.

menesheh:


It piss off whenever i hear people who really understand what love is, how we feel love and affection to our fellow human, even to other animals species will start to formulate a difference sort of "love" to address a nonsensical stuffs. We all feel love, stop eventing another set of love we don't feel.

you don't feel this kind of love because you simply DONT KNOW IT. its agape love, a God kind of love. and what you don't know, you don't understand. The love you feel is human, but the God kind of love is perfect, unbiased, and pure. other kinds of love are mere subsidiaries of the agape love that comes from God.

SonOfEl:


you don't feel this kind of love because you simply DONT KNOW IT. its agape love, a God kind of love. and what you don't know, you don't understand. The love you feel is human, but the God kind of love is perfect, unbiased, and pure. other kinds of love are mere subsidiaries of the agape love that comes from God.

You claim god's love is pure but he will punish those who don't love him back. Balances?

hahn:


You claim god's love is pure but he will punish those who don't love him back. Balances?

not loving him means not loving all that is good and embracing evil. YES, God will punish evil.

SonOfEl:


I think you need to balance these scripture.

Ezekiel 28:15

New International Version
You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you

Who created wickedness? God

Ezekiel 14:2-5

2And the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 3“Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their hearts and have put right before their faces the stumbling block of their iniquity. Should I be consulted by them at all? 4“Therefore speak to them and tell them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD, “Any man of the house of Israel who sets up his idols in his heart, puts right before his face the stumbling block of his iniquity, and then comes to the prophet, I the LORD will be brought to give him an answer in the matter in view of the multitude of his idols, 5in order to lay hold of the hearts of the house of Israel who are estranged from Me through all their idols.”’

Leviticus 20:26

New International Version
You are to be holy to me because I, the LORD, am holy, and I have set you apart from the nations to be my own.

1 john 1:5

New International Version
This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.

James 1:13-15

13Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. 14But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. 15Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

Isaiah 45:7

KJV: I formed the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the lord do all this things.

Apparently, this verse nullifies all the verses you put up there. As far as I can see, it is well balanced.