alexis:
If stoning satan is an act of worship as you claim, can you throw light on the following:

1. Why do we have to go to mecca alone to perform this worship? satan is a jinn, he is not physical even though he can take physical forms
2. Did Allah ever instruct muslims to do such?

The Quran is the ultimate and final authority on everything Islamic. Allah never endorsed such practice. Hundreds of million of muslims travel to mecca to perform these rites; the kissing of stones and other forms of worship of inanimate objects. Allah forbids such in Surah 5:90 and Surah 21:66

However, Muhammad kissed and worshiped these objects in Mecca directly disobeying Allah. The question now is - is Mohammad word greater than that of Allah instructions of Allah?

enieme:

hmm, this ur conclusiob sha.!
if i may ask, are u muslim or non muslim? Cos u dont semm knowledeablevenough to have the authority to proclaim such judgements

Proffdada:
so who is being stoned out of confusion?

alexis:


My conclusion? So, what is written in the Quran is now my conclusion abi? Have I stated or written anything that is incorrect?

I don't seem knowledgeable to pass judgments? What is wrong with you? I am stating what the Quran said and the authentic narrative from Al-Bukhari on the events discussed; can't you review what I have said and let Allah guide you to draw the right conclusion? Why are you being biased even before you looked at the evidence?

I am a human being, I believe in Almighty God and His prophets - you go figure whether I am a muslim or not

It is to the extent that before the bridge was built around the Jamaraat I saw a man and his wife standing in the gravel using their sandals or their shoes to beat this fixed column while they were insulting and cursing it. And what is amazing is that the stones (thrown by others) were hitting them and they did not care about this.

Wallahi Sheikh Al-Uthaymin had some humour, very funny but true. Masha'Allah sister, may Allah reward you for this!

alexis:


My conclusion? So, what is written in the Quran is now my conclusion abi? Have I stated or written anything that is incorrect?

I don't seem knowledgeable to pass judgments? What is wrong with you? I am stating what the Quran said and the authentic narrative from Al-Bukhari on the events discussed; can't you review what I have said and let Allah guide you to draw the right conclusion? Why are you being biased even before you looked at the evidence?

I am a human being, I believe in Almighty God and His prophets - you go figure whether I am a muslim or not

carinmom:


If truly you are a muslim, why are you claiming that the Prophet SAW disobeyed Allah? You know that could get you out of Islam.

alexis:


Brain-washed individual. Did Allah tell us to worship any objects? Is the prophet greater than Allah?

Qr 21 vs 66 suratul al-anbiya says: he said, "then do you worship instead of Allah that which does not benefit you at all or harm you?

Nd it is explaining what happen between Ibrahim and his family.

Qr 5 vs 90 suratul Al-Ma'idah says: o you who have believed, indeed, intoxicants, gambling, (sacrificing on) stone alters (to other than Allah) and defining arrows are but defilement from the work of satan, so avoid it that you may be successful

So what's d correlation with the hadith u quote which is not even completed my dear if u want to know more abt islam move closer to d knowledgeable ones and not under d tree discussion sorry if I sound harsh but that's d truth.

carinmom:

He is Allah's messenger and definitely the best of mankind.

Salaam

alexis:
personal59

Pls where do u see ur own quran nd its meaning

I read the same Quran you read



That is true and I am not doubting that. What I am saying is that Allah give instructions to Ibrahim first and then to all Muslims including the prophet not to worship any idol or stone. Here is the full context from Surah 21:55-66:

[b]And certainly We gave to Ibrahim his rectitude before, and We knew him fully well. When he said to his father and his people: What are these images to whose worship you cleave? They said: We found our fathers worshiping them. He said: Certainly you have been, (both) you and your fathers, in manifest error. They said: Have you brought to us the truth, or are you one of the triflers? He said: Nay! your Lord is the Lord of the heavens and the earth, Who brought them into existence, and I am of those who bear witness to this: And, by Allah! I will certainly do something against your idols after you go away, turning back. So he broke them into pieces, except the chief of them, that haply they may return to it. They said: Who has done this to our gods? Most surely he is one of the unjust. They said: We heard a youth called Ibrahim speak of them. Said they: Then bring him before the eyes of the people, perhaps they may bear witness. They said: Have you done this to our gods, O Ibrahim? He said: Surely (some doer) has done it; the chief of them is this, therefore ask them, if they can speak. Then they turned to themselves and said: Surely you yourselves are the unjust; Then they were made to hang down their heads: Certainly you know that they do not speak. He said: What! do you then serve besides Allah what brings you not any benefit at all, nor does it harm you? Fie on you and on what you serve besides Allah; what! do you not then understand? They said: Burn him and help your gods, if you are going to do (anything). S. 21:51-66 Shakir[/b]

The verse 66 clearly states; "Do you then worship beside GOD what possesses no power to benefit you or harm you?" S. 21:66 Khalifa

Allah has told us never to worship - "ANYTHING", no matter what it is except Him. He is the Almighty and no stone can represent Him. This is what I am trying to explain to you guys. So, except you are saying this is not the word of Allah or you are saying it's not true. Is that what you are saying?



Surah 5:90 has instructed Muslims that any kind of worship to anything else other than Allah is the work of satan. Is Allah in the stone in Meccah? Where in the Koran did Allah tell us as Muslims to kiss or worship any object apart from Himself?

You are ignoring the Quran and the implication it has. Look at what Al-Bukhari said:

Narrated Salim that his father said:

I saw Allah’s Apostle arriving at Mecca; he kissed the Black Stone Corner first while doing Tawaf and did ramal in the first three rounds of the seven rounds (of Tawaf). (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 26, Number 673)

Here is another one:

Narrated ‘Abis bin Rabia:

‘Umar came near the Black Stone and kissed it and said, "No doubt, I know that you are a stone AND CAN NEITHER BENEFIT ANYONE NOR HARM ANYONE. Had I not seen Allah’s Apostle kissing you I would not have kissed you." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 26, Number 667)

Here is Umar saying the samething - I know it's wrong to kiss and worship stone but because the prophet did it; I am doing it as well.

Narrated Zaid bin Aslam from his father who said:

"Umar bin Al-Khattab addressed the Corner (Black Stone) saying, ‘By Allah! I know that you are a stone AND CAN NEITHER BENEFIT NOR HARM. Had I not seen the Prophet touching (and kissing) you, I would never have touched (and kissed) you.’ Then he kissed it and said, ‘There is no reason for us to do Ramal (in Tawaf) except that we wanted to show off before the pagans, and now Allah has destroyed them.’ ‘Umar added, ‘(Nevertheless), the Prophet did that and we do not want to leave it (i.e. Ramal).’" (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 26, Number 675)

Here it is again.

So my friend; perhaps you are the one that doesn't know how to read your Quran and the Hadith. Idolatry in Islam is a sin against Allah.

personal59:


Mr u are mixing the point here he kissed d stone doesn't mean he worship it get that right if u adore something it doesn't mean u worship d stuff now haba unless u have something else u want to prove o bt with this nah u get it wrong the prophet never worship it

alexis:


Let me get this straight - millions and probably a billion Muslims travel from all over the world every year to one stone that is in Meccah (in the process they enrich the Saudi Monarch) to kiss a particular stone and you call that what? Kissing an object that everybody kisses is a sign of respect, reverence and worship. The idea is that you have given an object more respect than anything else. Only Allah should have our respect or worship.

If there was a certain tree in your village that all Nigerians visited every year and paid hundred of thousands of naira to touch it and kiss it and pray to it - you will call that adoration? Only Almighty God demands our adoration, no one else. The problem here is that Muslims like you will not think objectively. Thousands of Muslims die so often at this event especially at the stoning of satan that it has become a night-mare. satan is a jinn; he is not a physical being so I find it hard to understand why supposedly intelligent muslims think they are stoning satan. I am sure he has the best laugh every year because it is muslims that die in the hundreds and thousands when they go to stone him because he is never there.

Also, Allah never instructed this - never! This pagan ritual was incorporated into Islam and it hurts me because only Allah should be worship and no one else. Allah never told mohammed or anyone else to kiss the Kabbah or adore it; he expressly and explicitly forbid it. May God Almighty guide the ignorant

personal59:



Its not writing anywhere that if u don't touch or kiss it it invalidate ur hajj anyhow sha Ur opinion and understanding is urs and only urs and likewise mine and I don't force it on u just saying mine base on what I know and trying to let u see it from different perspective and so far u are bent on urs I don't think u should av mk it look like u want to rub mind at first so brother thanks for ur time am not quoting u to open ground for argument bt for us to learn bt think I got it all wrong may Allah be with us all and increase our knowledge and understanding in his deen thanks once again brother as salam alaykum waramotulah wabarakatu