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Was Satan By Default An Angel? Prove It If You Think Jesus Never Exist As Angel by BERNIMOORE: 2:06pm On Oct 24, 2013 |
satan was not mentioned in the bible to be 'an angel' by default or originally (i dont mean metaphorial usages), and if you can show me where it was mentioned that satan was created an angel, show it pls. This argument is informed by the persistent shoving aside of all Overwhelming evidences that pointed to the fact that jesus exist as servant of God right there in the heaven and was even called 'my servant' 'im calling you in righteousnes' by God Almighty himself in the heaven, in a vision shown to isaiah the prophet before jesus came to earth in the book isaiah 42.OLD TESTAMENT. angels are known to be supernatural beigns (invincible) that are servants/messengers of God. but before then(coming to the earth), it was decreed thus; Hebrew 1:6; And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him philipians 2:10 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. but when jesus was just about to start his ministry, satan approached jesus, and demand for jesus's worship satan knew jesus 'only as Gods son' and NOT GOD ALMIGHTY HIMSELF!(trinitarians should note that before muddling jesus as God Almighty himself) Mathew 4: 6........... and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. Again; Mathew 4:8-9; 8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.” but jesus told satan to worship God in heaven and NOT JESUS HIMSELF. Satan is a powerful beign and was even reffered as 'god'/God of this world(hebrew words does not recognise uppercase/lowercase in the use of god/God.) in the book of john. now, show me in the bible with strong verses DIRECTLY where satan was said to be 'an angel' by default or originally constructive comments pls 2 Likes |
Re: Was Satan By Default An Angel? Prove It If You Think Jesus Never Exist As Angel by BERNIMOORE: 8:31pm On Oct 24, 2013 |
jesus was called God's son, hebrew 1:5; “You are My Son, Today I have begotten You” the Angels too are called 'God's son' in genesis, and even when Gods angels gathered satan was present but the phrase 'sons of God' was not used to describe satan so, jesus and angels share beign called 'Gods son' moreover 'an angel of his presence' was said to be people's redeemer and savior isaiah 63:9 9 In all their affliction He was afflicted, And the Angel of His Presence saved them; In His love and in His pity He redeemed them; And He bore them and carried them All the days of old was satan reffered to as an angel by default in the bible?, prove it, if you believe that jesus was did not pre-exist as angel in heaven 2 Likes |
Re: Was Satan By Default An Angel? Prove It If You Think Jesus Never Exist As Angel by Jozzy4: 8:26am On Oct 09, 2015 |
Good One |
Re: Was Satan By Default An Angel? Prove It If You Think Jesus Never Exist As Angel by MuttleyLaff: 9:02am On Oct 09, 2015 |
BERNIMOORE:First, you do know that god and God are nouns also that God isnt a personal name, but is a pronoun, right? BERNIMOORE:Secondly you do know that angel actually in the original form means messenger or sent one, right? Then thirdly, you are aware that Satan is a spiritual being just like others like the celestials, seraphims, cherubs etcetera, whom at one time or the other have being sent out on errands etcetera, right? BERNIMOORE:Once you define what God is, what a god is, then this will unravel without hitches Take note of Exodus 4:16 and Exodus 7:1, FOR a flavour of what the word God means Aaron will be your spokesman to the people. He will be your mouthpiece, and you will stand in the place of God for him, telling him what to say. - Exodus 4:16 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Pay close attention to this. I will make you seem like God to Pharaoh, and your brother, Aaron, will be your prophet. - Exodus 7:1 BERNIMOORE and Jozzy4 What is your understanding of what the word God means and/or what the word, God is all about? 3 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Was Satan By Default An Angel? Prove It If You Think Jesus Never Exist As Angel by Jozzy4: 9:44am On Oct 09, 2015 |
@ Mutteylaff What exactly is your point ? |
Re: Was Satan By Default An Angel? Prove It If You Think Jesus Never Exist As Angel by Tjayjosh(m): 11:21am On Oct 09, 2015 |
The bible never really kept us in the dark as to if satan was an angel. Metaphorically speaking, we were made to understand that satan was not just an ordinary angel, he was a cherubim. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and i have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou was perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore i will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and i will destroy thee O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire (Ezekiel 28:14-16). Note, here "stones of fire" denotes Angels. THIS IS WHAT LEAD TO HIS FALL. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou has said in thine heart, i will ascend into heaven, i will exalt my throne above the stars of God: i will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the side of the north: i will ascend above the heights of clouds; i will be like the most high (Isaiah 14:12-14). Satan as an angel, and fall from heaven is symbolically described in Isaiah 14:12-14 and Ezekiel 28:12-18. While these two passages are referring specifically to the kings of Babylon and Tyre, they also represent the spiritual power behind those kings. 5 Likes |
Re: Was Satan By Default An Angel? Prove It If You Think Jesus Never Exist As Angel by MuttleyLaff: 11:59am On Oct 09, 2015 |
Jozzy4:My point is simple and it isn't a trick question. What is the word God and/or what is the word God all about? Bear in mind the noun and adjective observation I earlier hinted about of the word before answering back please |
Re: Was Satan By Default An Angel? Prove It If You Think Jesus Never Exist As Angel by Jozzy4: 3:54pm On Oct 09, 2015 |
MuttleyLaff:Off-topic , re-read the thread title and content . 1 Like |
Re: Was Satan By Default An Angel? Prove It If You Think Jesus Never Exist As Angel by Jozzy4: 4:00pm On Oct 09, 2015 |
Tjayjosh: Whats the meaning of the word "ANGEL" ? 1 Like |
Re: Was Satan By Default An Angel? Prove It If You Think Jesus Never Exist As Angel by MuttleyLaff: 4:19pm On Oct 09, 2015 |
Jozzy4:Re-read the topic yourself, then follow how the original post was broken down with my relevant responses about what ANGEL is really about or what it means, before asking about the word GOD, as the original post obviously has a misconceived idea of what the word God means or is, which is why angel and God is "abused" in the original post. 1 Like |
Re: Was Satan By Default An Angel? Prove It If You Think Jesus Never Exist As Angel by truthislight: 4:55pm On Oct 09, 2015 |
MuttleyLaff: Here(in Nairaland), we do appreciate evidence, like quoting what you are referring to to buttress your point and drive home your msg, hence, our minds will not be running halter skelter. So, where does the above referenced abuse mentioned by you took place? |
Re: Was Satan By Default An Angel? Prove It If You Think Jesus Never Exist As Angel by MuttleyLaff: 8:24am On Oct 10, 2015 |
truthislight:truthislight, please never mind, as I've come to realise the original post is a 2-year old ''dead post'' I however am curious to know what your take is on the word GOD What is your understanding of what the word GOD means and/or what the word, GOD is all about? truthislight:BERNIMOORE uploaded this post in October 2013, 2 a month before correctly agreeing on another thread in November 2013, that Jesus was an angel and that ''angel is a task not a different form/nature but apply to both human and spirit sons of God'' also that ''the word itself Angel was derived from latin, which means messenger, it was'nt limiting this to only spirit beign but also human'' When I typed ''abuse'', obviously it means/indicates ''abnormally used'' but it seems a month down the line, the original poster confirmed what angel is, means and what angels siginifies I am yet to read any of his, confirming or agreeing that Satan was once an angel, Mind you Satan wasnt an ordinary angel but was an archangel - Satan is a celestial being, a renegade, an ex-Archangel, God made man in His image, David was a man after God's heart but Satan was an Archangel of own's inverted invention |
Re: Was Satan By Default An Angel? Prove It If You Think Jesus Never Exist As Angel by ATMC(f): 9:41am On Oct 10, 2015 |
MuttleyLaff:You interest me. Throw more light pls. |
Re: Was Satan By Default An Angel? Prove It If You Think Jesus Never Exist As Angel by Tjayjosh(m): 12:13pm On Oct 10, 2015 |
@Muttleylaff. I'm impressed at the way and manner at which you try to analyse the scriptures. Your precision amazes me. May God increase you with wisdom and striength. However, we must treat the "Angel" concept with care, so as not to mix up the whole thing with human assumptions, for our knowledge is quite vague when it comes to that. The term or prefix "arch" is Greek for ruling or chief. Archangels are only mentioned twice in the bible, and only one angel is specifically called an archangel, micheal. The only other time the archangel appears in the bible is to do with the end of time. Both of these cases, speak of a singular archangel which could suggest that there is only one arch or ruler angel and that is micheal. The bible never specifically stated if satan was an ex-archangel. We only know, he was called a cherub. 1 Like |
Re: Was Satan By Default An Angel? Prove It If You Think Jesus Never Exist As Angel by paulGrundy(m): 1:05pm On Oct 10, 2015 |
Muttylaff=BERNIMORE=truthislight=loveroftruth? ![]() ![]() ![]() I always knew something was fishy. |
Re: Was Satan By Default An Angel? Prove It If You Think Jesus Never Exist As Angel by MuttleyLaff: 2:36pm On Oct 10, 2015 |
Tjayjosh:TJ, ex-, as in no longer a messenger, not an ordinary cherub but a chief celestial one for that matter, who incidentally deserted the office or post and led a rebellion or an unsuccessful coup d'état |
Re: Was Satan By Default An Angel? Prove It If You Think Jesus Never Exist As Angel by MuttleyLaff: 2:37pm On Oct 10, 2015 |
paulGrundy:This comment is a good candidate for April 1st. 2 Likes |
Re: Was Satan By Default An Angel? Prove It If You Think Jesus Never Exist As Angel by MuttleyLaff: 2:42pm On Oct 10, 2015 |
Re: Was Satan By Default An Angel? Prove It If You Think Jesus Never Exist As Angel by ATMC(f): 7:51pm On Oct 10, 2015 |
MuttleyLaff:Gerarahere!! |
Re: Was Satan By Default An Angel? Prove It If You Think Jesus Never Exist As Angel by MuttleyLaff: 10:14pm On Oct 10, 2015 |
ATMC: ![]() 1 Like |
Re: Was Satan By Default An Angel? Prove It If You Think Jesus Never Exist As Angel by BERNIMOORE: 12:08pm On Oct 11, 2015 |
@MuttleyLaff thank you for responding to my old post, but then i will appreciate if your intention is not to change or divert us from the original topic which is about (1) 'showing a verse where satan was directly called an angel without 'juxtaposing' in anywaywhatsoever! all your post has failed to achieve that! and now you brought this post below which seem to divert us from the issue MuttleyLaff: (2)Again show a verse where satan was 'pronounced' an archangel as you stated or opined in your post below; MuttleyLaff: i am expecting answers to 1 and 2 above 'with Direct bible verses' in your response, thanks 3 Likes |
Re: Was Satan By Default An Angel? Prove It If You Think Jesus Never Exist As Angel by MuttleyLaff: 3:05pm On Oct 11, 2015 |
BERNIMOORE:No thanks to whoever ''bumped'' (i.e. Bring-Up-My-Post) this 2 year old dead post Trust me, if I had known it was a 2-year old post, I wouldnt have in the first place responded to it BERNIMOORE:Intention was hoping you'll see how recklessly and carelessly the topic and original post were worked. Conscience wouldnt permit overlooking or turning a blind eye to the naiveté in the original post. It will be a disservice to be passive gloss over the bloopers in the post BERNIMOORE:First spare me the exclamation. Not that there isnt any verse to show satan was directly called an angel, as there are verse(s) but hypothetically speaking, just because there’s a lack of verse showing satan was directly called an angel doesn’t mean, it isn’t true satan was an angel (i.e. a malaika in Hebrew/Arabic, angelos in Greek, a messenger, effectively a celestial being sent to errand(s)) Satan is now an ex-Archangel because satan since after the botched coup detat no longer runs errands or messages for God Satan ''upgraded''. Satan now has own angels, confirmed in 2 Corinthians 12:7 Satan, like all other invisible beings, are first created as celestial beings before becoming angels When angels or an Archangel vacates the post or office, they no longer are angels of God or an Archangel of God but now become angels of whom they have allegiance to or become an adversary of God Lest I be lifted up by the abundance of revelations, a thorn for my flesh was handed over to me, an Angel of Satan to buffet me, lest I be lifted up. - 2 Corinthians 12:7 DRUM ROLL: and here is THE COVETED verse you're so much after And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. - 2 Corinthians 11:14 BERNIMOORE:Already remarked about this above BERNIMOORE:Yes, and I make no apologies about it. You banded the word GOD about in the original post obviously without any idea what the word means or what the word is all about. If you do know/did know, the word wouldnt make appearances in the manner it was abnormally used and taken advantage of, in the original post, all in order to score or make cheap points BERNIMOORE:You think, its beans to stage a coup d'etat. Shey na ordinary foot angel dey carry out coup or stage coup d'etat things? Abeggy, make we hear word jor. SMH BERNIMOORE:Answers to 1 and 2 'with Direct bible verses' are already above As it is, I have indulged this 2-year old post enough. Now be the judge, after reading the below which was posted two months or so after the original, if ''Angel is a task not a different form/nature but apply to both human and spirit sons of God'' then why cant Satan be an angel of God or why wasn't Satan one before? - you should recognise or be familiar with the below and remember who wrote it Angel is a task not a different form/nature but apply to both human and spirit sons of God |
Re: Was Satan By Default An Angel? Prove It If You Think Jesus Never Exist As Angel by BERNIMOORE: 8:03pm On Oct 11, 2015 |
bolded below in your response Affirm my point Already; MuttleyLaff: The question again is 'did bible directly call satan an arch-Angel? No! you want us to believe that because satan has angels 'followers' means that he is an arch-Angel, hence [s]Lest I be lifted up by the abundance of revelations, a thorn for my flesh was handed over to me, Using same analogy (strictly) Revelation 22:16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things..... Que(3)Can we conclude that jesus was an Arch-Angel? DRUM ROLL:lets see the verse; And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.(NIV) 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light Another Translation used 'masquerades as an angel' so when you 'disguise' or 'masquerades' as a lion you are already a lion in 'essence' get a life my brother that verse does more damage to your strawman's claim you already have a drum rolling, i guess you have to stop dancing now due to the expose ![]() ![]() if you still doubt that the verse does not support your notion Notice the parallel the writer was trying to strike by comparing verses 13 the preceeding verse with verse 14 that you quoted 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising Themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Now be the judge, after reading the below which was posted two months or so after the original,My answer to you querry above will depend on the outcome of your response to Que 3 that is; Que(3)Can we conclude that jesus was an Arch-Angel? Using same analogy in 2 Corinthians 12:7. |
Re: Was Satan By Default An Angel? Prove It If You Think Jesus Never Exist As Angel by johnw74: 12:14am On Oct 12, 2015 |
Where in the Bible does it say Satan was once a glorious angel in Heaven? “Thou wast created.” Ezekiel 28:13, 15. “Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth.” Ezekiel 28:14. “Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty … every precious stone was thy covering … the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. … Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.” Ezekiel 28:12-15. Lucifer was created by God, as were all the other angels (Ephesians 3:9). Lucifer was a “covering” cherub. There was one great angel that stands on the left side of God’s throne and another on the right (Psalms 99:1). Lucifer was one of those highly exalted angel leaders. His beauty was flawless and breathtaking. His wisdom was perfect. His brightness was awe-inspiring. Ezekiel 28:13 seems to indicate that his throat was specially prepared to make him an outstanding musician. But pride, jealousy, discontent, and self-exaltation arose in his heart. And he decided to attempt to unseat God and then demand that all worship him.”Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness.” Ezekiel 28:17. “For thou hast said in thine heart, … I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: … I will be like the most High.” Isaiah 14:13, 14. Then, “there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Revelation 12:7-9. Lucifer won the support of one-third of the angels (Revelation 12:3, 4) and caused an insurrection in heaven. God had no choice but to oust Lucifer and his followers. This was the greatest battle, by far, ever fought. Lucifer’s aim was to usurp God’s throne, even if it might eventually lead to murder (John 8:44). After his expulsion from heaven, Lucifer was called Satan (adversary) and devil (slanderer), and his angels were called demons. http://proof.directory/where-in-the-bible-does-it-say-satan-was-once-a-glorious-angel-in-heaven/ |
Re: Was Satan By Default An Angel? Prove It If You Think Jesus Never Exist As Angel by MuttleyLaff: 8:18am On Oct 12, 2015 |
johnw74:Am inclined to believe Satan is more of a Seraphim than being a Cherub or Cherubim johnw74:I admit this piece isnt your work but are you agreeing with the author of that piece that Satan was one of the cherubs standing or guarding the throne of God? ![]() Remember the ark of covenant, depicting cherubs guarding etctera |
Re: Was Satan By Default An Angel? Prove It If You Think Jesus Never Exist As Angel by MuttleyLaff: 8:26am On Oct 12, 2015 |
BERNIMOORE:You must be kidding yourself Exactly what in the bolded affirms your point already and where exactly in the bolded affirms your point already? Is there a chance of Satan ever running errands for God before or not? Answer with a Yes or No BERNIMOORE:Satan used to be an arch-Angel bro, right now, Satan aint no ones ArchAngel, not anymore If 2 Corinthians 12:7 doesnt do it for you, how about Revelation 12:9 then? And the great Dragon was cast down, that Chief Serpent, which is called The Devil and Satan, which deceives all The Earth, and it was cast down unto The Earth and its Angels were cast down with it - Revelation 12:9 Hey, let's repeat these, here again for your attention: Secondly you do know that angel actually in the original form means messenger or sent one, right? Then thirdly, you are aware that Satan is a spiritual being just like others like the celestials, seraphims, cherubs etcetera, whom at one time or the other have being sent out on errands etcetera, right? Not that there isnt any verse to show satan was directly called an angel, as there are verse(s) but hypothetically speaking, just because there’s a lack of verse showing satan was directly called an angel doesn’t mean, it isn’t true satan was an angel (i.e. a malaika in Hebrew/Arabic, angelos in Greek, a messenger, effectively a celestial being sent to errand(s)) Satan is now an ex-Archangel because satan since after the botched coup detat no longer runs errands or messages for God Satan ''upgraded''. Satan now has own angels, confirmed in 2 Corinthians 12:7 BERNIMOORE:There you go again, its another one, it Drum rolls are used to introduce an announcement or event, that drum roll was done when about presenting 2 Corinthians 12:7 has nothing to do with dancing BERNIMOORE:Bro, I'll wipe that grin of my face, if I were you, because Bro, you missed the point in presenting 2 Corinthians 11:14 Satan cant eat cake and have it too. Satan would have at some time be an Archangel of some sort, who without a doubt would have been used to running errands for God Satan ceased to be an angel, the moment that post and office was vacated So Satan, the ex-angel, still a celestial being, now masquerades, disguises to be an angel of light Why, what's the other reason for pretending to be an angel? Maybe because Santan missed being a former angel? Why did Paul to have mention that Satan now masquerades, disguises to be an angel of light? Was it because Paul knew Satan used to go on errands for God before, and doesnt anymore but now masquerades, disguises to be an angel of light, to deceive some? What was Jesus trying to get his disciples infer when He said: ''I watched Satan fall from heaven like a lightning flash'' (i.e. Luke 10:18) Was Jesus trying to get his disciples know Satan is a celestial being originally from heaven? You know what, go do some research on celestial beings and angelic hierarchy then return here with your findings about which rung on the ''ladder'' Satan fits BERNIMOORE:Let's get this straight bro, shall we? FACT: Angels are whatever invisible spirits sent on errands by God, call them messengers, if you like FACT: An Arch-Angel, is just a step above your average angels on the block If you want to debate 2 Corinthians 12:7 or Revelation 12:9, it wont remove the fact that Jesus wasnt the average In this context and in Jesus' capacity where it applies, Jesus would have to be an Arch-Angel I am aware of Revelation 22:16, hence the ''in this context and in Jesus' capacity where it applies...'' caveat emptor Bottom line bro, anyone, and I mean anyone, like you've earlier agreed with somewhere else, can be an angel - it dont matter if one is visible or invisible Lastly, everyone can refuse to be an angel or can refuse to be sent by God on errands I am of the mind that Satan, before, used to run errands for God (i.e. Job's case would be an example) but Satan had since stopped running errands for God this prompts nullifying calling Satan an angel or arch-Angel as Satan doesnt run errands anymore for God |
Re: Was Satan By Default An Angel? Prove It If You Think Jesus Never Exist As Angel by Tjayjosh(m): 10:23am On Oct 12, 2015 |
MuttleyLaff:Let us critically examine this: Based on the bible, there are only three kinds of angels that have the awe-inspiring privilege to stand in the presence of God. 1. Seraphim: Literally translated "burning ones," the word seraph is a synonym for serpents when used in the bible, mentioned in isaiah 6:1-7. Seraphim are considered to be the highest angelic class and they serve as the caretakers of God's throne and continously shout praises to God. 2. Cherubim: They are four facet, one of a man, an ox, a lion, and an eagle. They have four conjoine wings covered with eyes, a lions body figure with ox's feet (Ezekiel 1:4-27; Rev 4:6- ![]() 3. Thrones: The twenty four elders, are class of celetial beings mentioned by paul in colossians 1:16, and in Rev 4:4. The most influential christian angelic hierarchy was that put forward by Peudo Dionysius the Areopagite in 4th or 5th century, in his book De Coelestia Hierarchia (on the celestial Hierarchy). First Sphere. 1. Seraphim 2. Cherubim 3. Thrones Second Sphere 1. Dominions 2. Virtues 3. Powers Third Sphere 1. Principalities 2. Archangels 3. Angels The saga for the control and kingship of the kingdom of heaven is the bible's core theme from Genesis to Revelation. In Genesis God sent cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life Genesis 3:24. Whenever there is war, one Archangel comes on the scene (Micheal). |
Re: Was Satan By Default An Angel? Prove It If You Think Jesus Never Exist As Angel by johnw74: 11:16pm On Oct 12, 2015 |
MuttleyLaff: Heb 1:5 For unto[size=14pt] which of the angels[/size] said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, [size=14pt]O God[/size], is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Heb 1:13 But to [size=14pt]which of the angels[/size] said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? |
Re: Was Satan By Default An Angel? Prove It If You Think Jesus Never Exist As Angel by johnw74: 1:29am On Oct 13, 2015 |
If there are Angels of light, and there are, then they are God's Angels and then it stands to reason that there must be angels of darkness, otherwise Angels of light would only need to be called Angels. And there are angels of darkness, satan is one of them satan cannot masquerade as a dark angel for that is what he is naturally since his fall, and so when he masquerades, he masquerades as a angel of light |
Re: Was Satan By Default An Angel? Prove It If You Think Jesus Never Exist As Angel by BERNIMOORE: 3:03pm On Oct 14, 2015 |
MuttleyLaff: The sentence above (in bold) is where i am driving my argument to, i decided to put the thread in a way that it will draw answers in a practical and comparable way, you think i dont know that satan was an angel?of course you rightly quoted part of it, or that jesus was also an arch angel that run errands for God while some angels are under his control, some of my works in 2012 dealt with that. the thread was directed to the trinitarians that i have engaged before like OLAADEGBU and co. i want to thank you for your sincerity since i discovered that we both agree on some of these issues, but there are areas we will still need to reconcile 1, satan as an Arch angel 2, Jesus The Almighty God same as his father |
Re: Was Satan By Default An Angel? Prove It If You Think Jesus Never Exist As Angel by johnw74: 11:57pm On Oct 14, 2015 |
BERNIMOORE: You must either, don't believe those Bible verses, or change what they say, to believe what you say. The writer of Hebrews made it clear that Father God never said "thou art my Son" to an Angel Father God never said "sit at my right hand" to an Angel. Father God, calls the Son "God" You agree with a dictionary that Angel means merssenger and you disagree with the Bible(Hebrews) that Jesus Christ is not an Angel. johnw74: 1. satan was made more brilliant than any other Angel it's highly likely he was an arch Angel. 2. There are many Bible verses showing Jesus Christ is the exact image of Father God. |
Re: Was Satan By Default An Angel? Prove It If You Think Jesus Never Exist As Angel by truthislight: 12:47am On Oct 15, 2015 |
MuttleyLaff: Good day @Muttleylaff. As much as I do wish to give an answer to the above question, I am keenly aware that it may derail this thread, hence, I beg to withhold my comment for now. While reading through your post, I observed that you and the OP have arrived at the same conclusion as to the fact that the lack of a direct reference to Satan as an Angel in the Bible is no hindrance to drawing the conclusion that he was formerly an Angel(a messenger).based on the available evidence. So then, why is the absence of a direct reference to Jesus as an Angel a hindrance in deducing from the abundance of Bible passages that the Entity Arc'Angel' mentioned in the Bible is same person Jesus. Considering the fact that they both have/share similar responsibilities. (almost all the task assigned to Jesus are the same things that Angel Michael will/assigned to do also). So, the thread's argument is this: Why is it allowable to see a parallel from the Bible and deduced that Satan was an Angel though no direct reference to him being such was made and the same deductions can not be made to deduce that Jesus was an Angel/messenger and is still doing the work of messenger down till this day ? On going back to heaven he continued going on arrand for the father: Revelation 1:1. A revelationa by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent his angel and presented it in signs through him to his slave John. .......................................................... NB: Even the act of Christ rulership as king on going back to heaven is still an assignment by Yahweh, A message, while a king, he will carry out certain assignment. So, Your critical mind has lay to rest a fact inherent in the bible that some dishonest heart finds difficult to say, owing to strongly held notion and tradition. Thank you. Peace. |
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