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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / CONTROVERSY: Biblical Linking Of Arch-angel Michael And Jesus (4780 Views)
The Truth About Jesus (michael) And The Trinity / Jesus Is The Almighty, Not Angel Michael, Pls Don't Be Deceived / Jesus Is Not Angel Michael And Has Always Been God [proof] (2) (3) (4)
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CONTROVERSY: Biblical Linking Of Arch-angel Michael And Jesus by EVarn(m): 3:40pm On Oct 16, 2015 |
PART 1: . There have been many controversies concerning who Jesus was before he was born in flesh. Diverse evidences have been presented; however,the most outstanding scriptural references strongly support the notion that Jesus Christ was actually Arch-angel Michael. Firstly,the name "michael" means "one who is like God"; We will come back to this in PART 2. Let us examine,Dan 10:5-21 and Dan 12:1. verse 13 of the first passage says: "But the prince of the kingdom of persia{*satan} withstood me for twenty-one days: but,lo,Mi'chael,one of the chief princes{*one of the two seraphims of the presence of God},came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia." In the second passage(Dan 12:1): "And at that time shall Mi'chael stand up,the great prince which stand for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble,such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered,every one that shall be found written in the book." . PART 2 |
Re: CONTROVERSY: Biblical Linking Of Arch-angel Michael And Jesus by EVarn(m): 3:43pm On Oct 16, 2015 |
OAM4J,truthislight |
Re: CONTROVERSY: Biblical Linking Of Arch-angel Michael And Jesus by respect80(m): 3:45pm On Oct 16, 2015 |
Is that so |
Re: CONTROVERSY: Biblical Linking Of Arch-angel Michael And Jesus by Richirich713: 11:54am On Oct 17, 2015 |
EVarn: Doesn't Michael mean- "Who is like God" a rhetorical question? Honestly I can't see Michael being jesus, cuz in Epistle of Jude he speaks of jesus and Michael in a manner that seems to indicate they are not the same. For eg he starts the epistle calling jesus Lord and uses the name jesus to refer to Jesus but in verse 9 says : "But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, was disputing about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a blasphemous judgment, but said, ‘The Lord rebuke you.’” Jude 1:8-9 If he meant jesus it's strange that he nw refers to Jesus as Michael. Then just afterwards he again speaks of jesus again being his Lord. 1 Like |
Re: CONTROVERSY: Biblical Linking Of Arch-angel Michael And Jesus by EVarn(m): 5:51pm On Oct 17, 2015 |
Richirich713:Mi'chael was the name of Jesus before he was born in flesh as the christ. Infact,their are theological hypothesis supporting the notion that God's first creation were two powerful seraphims(or arch-angels),one on his right(jesus) and the other on his left(lucifer). |
Re: CONTROVERSY: Biblical Linking Of Arch-angel Michael And Jesus by Appleyard(m): 6:21pm On Oct 17, 2015 |
EVarn:Well, there are places where God did manifested as an Angel, but claiming that Jesus was first Michael before he actually became Jesus, lacks merit and does not have any biblical bearing. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: CONTROVERSY: Biblical Linking Of Arch-angel Michael And Jesus by EVarn(m): 6:48pm On Oct 17, 2015 |
Appleyard:The book of Daniel chapters 10 and 12 are strong biblical references to the identity of Michael. Why was Michael referred to as one of the "chief princes"?,why was he called "the great prince of israel"?,wasnt jesus also called "prince of the people of israel"?,if so,can israel have two princes?. Why did the book of Revelations narrate the battle of heaven in the context of: "Michael and 1 Like |
Re: CONTROVERSY: Biblical Linking Of Arch-angel Michael And Jesus by vooks: 7:06pm On Oct 17, 2015 |
Hebrews 1 dwells at length on why Jesus is not an angels but a Son. Read 4-14. Look Hebrews 1:4-5 King James Version (KJV) 4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? -Jesus is MUCH BETTER than angels -God said to Jesus and not any of his angels , 'you are my son' Jesus being sent from God may be regarded as a messenger as far as His assignment is concerned, and it is with this that Reformers called Jesus Michael, but Jesus is clearly the Creator not a Creature like angels 4 Likes 1 Share |
Re: CONTROVERSY: Biblical Linking Of Arch-angel Michael And Jesus by EVarn(m): 11:18pm On Oct 17, 2015 |
vooks:The old testament refers to angels as "sons of God",the books of Genesis 6:4,Job 1:6,2:1 referred to angels as "sons of God",was the old testament referring to Jesus(using plural 1 Like |
Re: CONTROVERSY: Biblical Linking Of Arch-angel Michael And Jesus by vooks: 4:23am On Oct 18, 2015 |
EVarn:Hebrews is New Testament so angels here mean angels . If angels are sons and Jesus is a Son, then what contrast is being made? Isn't it nonsensical saying God did not say this to any of his angels but he said it to his angel? Supposing v5 is talking about men not angels. Hebrews 1:4-5 King James Version (KJV) 4 Being made so much better than the MEN, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For unto which of the MEN said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? If God gave Jesus a name better than MEN and he never said 'thou art my son' to any MAN but He said so to Jesus, Jesus can't be a man. Comprehnde ![]() |
Re: CONTROVERSY: Biblical Linking Of Arch-angel Michael And Jesus by EVarn(m): 8:24am On Oct 18, 2015 |
vooks:Hebrew was talking about "messangers",the original meaning of angel is messanger. Hebrew 1 was referring to the prophets of old. Why would the old testament refer to angels as "sons of God",and the new testament say otherwise?. 2 Likes |
Re: CONTROVERSY: Biblical Linking Of Arch-angel Michael And Jesus by vooks: 11:30am On Oct 18, 2015 |
EVarn:Angels are messengers true but Hebrews is talking about angelic beings not prophets of old. Angels in New Testament mean angelic beings unless you read different bibles than myself. When you are not busy being confused, please read through Hebrews 1. Hebrews 1:6 (KJV) And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. Where do you find God commanding 'prophets of old' to worship Jesus when Jesus is born? Cc Gombs,Image123,Scholar8200,Joagbaje |
Re: CONTROVERSY: Biblical Linking Of Arch-angel Michael And Jesus by EVarn(m): 6:54pm On Oct 18, 2015 |
vooks:Michael isnt an angel,he was referred to as an "arch-angel",the word 'arch' means leader or ruler or chief. If Michael was referred to as the "ruler(chief) of angels",then wouldnt all angels worship him as was written in Hebrews 1:6?. Again,you tend to disregard the old testament accounts of the identity of Michael. |
Re: CONTROVERSY: Biblical Linking Of Arch-angel Michael And Jesus by vooks: 6:27pm On Oct 23, 2015 |
EVarn: What are you smoking Negro? Archangel is chief angel Who told you Michael is the Son of God is Jesus ? |
Re: CONTROVERSY: Biblical Linking Of Arch-angel Michael And Jesus by EVarn(m): 8:08pm On Oct 23, 2015 |
vooks:what are you sniffing? who told you Michael wasnt Jesus? |
Re: CONTROVERSY: Biblical Linking Of Arch-angel Michael And Jesus by vooks: 2:28am On Oct 24, 2015 |
EVarn: Because we are told Jesus is not an angel and because NOWHERE is Jesus called Michael except in your imagination. Fortunately we follow scriptures not hallucinations |
Re: CONTROVERSY: Biblical Linking Of Arch-angel Michael And Jesus by mayorall(m): 3:15am On Oct 24, 2015 |
EVarn: My brother. Revelation 12vs 7 after Jesus Christ resurrection. And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels. At least we've known Jesus by this time. |
Re: CONTROVERSY: Biblical Linking Of Arch-angel Michael And Jesus by EVarn(m): 9:00am On Oct 24, 2015 |
vooks:Neither were we told that satan was an angel,yet we deduce through theoretical analysis. Everything about the celestial world is not written in the bible,but we are meant to unravel the mysteries of the kingdom of God. |
Re: CONTROVERSY: Biblical Linking Of Arch-angel Michael And Jesus by EVarn(m): 9:05am On Oct 24, 2015 |
mayorall:That is what i'm talking about. |
Re: CONTROVERSY: Biblical Linking Of Arch-angel Michael And Jesus by vooks: 10:11am On Oct 24, 2015 |
EVarn:Young man, read your bible. Job 1:6 (KJV) Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them. Satan with sons of God Revelation 12:9 (KJV) And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. '....and his angels...' Matthew 25:41 (KJV) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: '...the devil and his angels...' You want it written in Yoruba for you? ![]() ![]() We have clear evidence Jesus is not an angel We have evidence Michael is a chief angel We use our brains to conclude that Jesus is not Michael |
Re: CONTROVERSY: Biblical Linking Of Arch-angel Michael And Jesus by EVarn(m): 12:46pm On Oct 24, 2015 |
vooks:Where did the bible say satan is himself an angel?,give me the scriptural reference: its theological deduction. God is the 'lord of host',is God an angel? |
Re: CONTROVERSY: Biblical Linking Of Arch-angel Michael And Jesus by vooks: 3:27pm On Oct 24, 2015 |
[quote author=EVarn post=39311450]Where did the bible say satan is himself an angel?,give me the scriptural reference: its theological deduction. God is the 'lord of host',is God an angel?[/quote You are digressing needlessly. What makes Jesus Michael? 1. We know Michael is an angel 2. We know Jesus is not an angel |
Re: CONTROVERSY: Biblical Linking Of Arch-angel Michael And Jesus by EVarn(m): 5:12pm On Oct 24, 2015 |
[quote author=vooks post=39316377][/quote] I have made these points before,but let me reiterate them, (1) In the book of Daniel,Michael was referred to as the "great prince of isreal"; however,Isaiah called Jesus{in his prophesy} the "prince of israel".Can Israel have two princes? (2) Revelation referred to "Michael and his angels",however God is called the "Lord of host".Can the heavenly host have two commanders? (3) Daniel called Michael "one of the chief princes" and illustrated Michael liberating an angel of God from a deadlock with the "prince of the kingdom of persia"(satan) who had withstood the angel for 21 days. (4) Jude called Michael "the archangel",meaning; chief(ruler) of angels.However,Jesus was described as being worshipped by angels in the book of Hebrew. (5) Satan challenged Jesus to throw himself down from a tall mountain "if he was truly the son of God",why would satan doubt the position of christ in the celestial arrangement? |
Re: CONTROVERSY: Biblical Linking Of Arch-angel Michael And Jesus by vooks: 5:58pm On Oct 24, 2015 |
[quote author=EVarn post=39319860]Make my day (1) In the book of Daniel,Michael was referred to as the "great prince of isreal"; however,Isaiah called Jesus{in his prophesy} the "prince of israel".Can Israel have two princes? Quote the verses (2) Revelation referred to "Michael and his angels",however God is called the "Lord of host".Can the heavenly host have two commanders? Silly and plain nonsensical. Jesus is Lord of Lords and King of Kings. So if an angel is in charge of the angels, they'd still be UNDER Jesus. I was looking forward to an intelligent debate not silly semantics (3) Daniel called Michael "one of the chief princes" and illustrated Michael liberating an angel of God from a deadlock with the "prince of the kingdom of persia"(satan) who had withstood the angel for 21 days. Who or what told you Prince of Persia is Satan? Besides, so what? What conclusion do you draw from this? Why do you draw them? Bear with me as I teach you how to think scripturally
A chief angel is still an angel. (5) Satan challenged Jesus to throw himself down from a tall mountain "if he was truly the son of God",why would satan doubt the position of christ in the celestial arrangement?Who told you Satan doubted? Satan was tempting Jesus to sin. The devil knew who Jesus was. Why do you think he was tempting him in the first place and not John the Baptist? And even if the devil doubted, how does that make Jesus an angel? Please young man, spend time in scripture and discard the trash you are consuming |
Re: CONTROVERSY: Biblical Linking Of Arch-angel Michael And Jesus by Highcuerayte: 7:31pm On Oct 24, 2015 |
EVarn:Crap. We don't believe in myths we believe in the word of God. 1 Like |
Re: CONTROVERSY: Biblical Linking Of Arch-angel Michael And Jesus by Highcuerayte: 7:34pm On Oct 24, 2015 |
EVarn:Throw away the gibberish you are taught. Lucifer is an Angel both Ezekiel and Isaiah spoke of it like that. 1 Like |
Re: CONTROVERSY: Biblical Linking Of Arch-angel Michael And Jesus by Highcuerayte: 7:37pm On Oct 24, 2015 |
EVarn:Angels are sons of God Jesus is the Son of God. Two different entities. |
Re: CONTROVERSY: Biblical Linking Of Arch-angel Michael And Jesus by EVarn(m): 7:39pm On Oct 24, 2015 |
Highcuerayte:Who told you lucifer is satan?,explain by using scriptural reference. |
Re: CONTROVERSY: Biblical Linking Of Arch-angel Michael And Jesus by EVarn(m): 7:45pm On Oct 24, 2015 |
Highcuerayte:This is the most ridiculous arguement I have heard for quite a while now,how is "son" different from "sons"?,isnt "sons" the plural of "son"?: how can angels who are "sons of God" be different from Jesus who is the "son of God"?,arent they all sons of God?. |
Re: CONTROVERSY: Biblical Linking Of Arch-angel Michael And Jesus by Highcuerayte: 7:49pm On Oct 24, 2015 |
EVarn:I put up Scripture references already so you go and read them. Lucifer was then an angel of God,an Archangel to be precise.He ruled as King in the then world which recreated by God is now our planet earth.His name then was Lucifer.He decide to Ascend to heaven in the far north where God dwell but he failed because no Angel can Ascend up only God can Ascend and Descend. So when he failed he host up his angels for a showdown with God but was defeated and his Kingdom which was the world before our recreated world was destroyed by flood of water and God cause Sun to cease giving lights which is what you see in the second verse of Genesis. When defeated he became Satan by name. |
Re: CONTROVERSY: Biblical Linking Of Arch-angel Michael And Jesus by Highcuerayte: 7:57pm On Oct 24, 2015 |
EVarn:And that is the foolishness that makes the Jew and the Greeks stumble. You figure what that means out. And for the record I didn't say "Sons" I said "A son" and "The Son" What makes the Jew want to stone Jesus when he said he is the Son of God? You think they would have stoned him if he said he is a son of God? I tell you No. "The" makes the difference. "The Son of God " is not a title,it's a name only God bears. Like I said throw away the gibberish you are taught and learn the Truth. |
Re: CONTROVERSY: Biblical Linking Of Arch-angel Michael And Jesus by mayorall(m): 7:59pm On Oct 24, 2015 |
EVarn: There are kings and there is King. Jesus is God's only begotten son. according to John 3:16. There are sons and there is a Son. |
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