PART 1:
.
There have been many controversies concerning who Jesus was before he was born in flesh.
Diverse evidences have been presented; however,the most outstanding scriptural references strongly support the notion that Jesus Christ was actually Arch-angel Michael.
Firstly,the name "michael" means "one who is like God"; We will come back to this in PART 2.
Let us examine,Dan 10:5-21 and Dan 12:1.
verse 13 of the first passage says:
"But the prince of the kingdom of persia{*satan} withstood me for twenty-one days: but,lo,Mi'chael,one of the chief princes{*one of the two seraphims of the presence of God},came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia."
In the second passage(Dan 12:1):
"And at that time shall Mi'chael stand up,the great prince which stand for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble,such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered,every one that shall be found written in the book."
.
PART 2

OAM4J,truthislight

Is that so

EVarn:
PART 1:
.
There have been many controversies concerning who Jesus was before he was born in flesh.
Diverse evidences have been presented; however,the most outstanding scriptural references strongly support the notion that Jesus Christ was actually Arch-angel Michael.
Firstly,the name "michael" means "one who is like God"; We will come back to this in PART 2.
Let us examine,Dan 10:5-21 and Dan 12:1.
verse 13 of the first passage says:
"But the prince of the kingdom of persia{*satan} withstood me for twenty-one days: but,lo,Mi'chael,one of the chief princes{*one of the two seraphims of the presence of God},came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia."
In the second passage(Dan 12:1):
"And at that time shall Mi'chael stand up,the great prince which stand for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble,such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered,every one that shall be found written in the book."
.
PART 2

Doesn't Michael mean- "Who is like God" a rhetorical question?

Honestly I can't see Michael being jesus, cuz in Epistle of Jude he speaks of jesus and Michael in a manner that seems to indicate they are not the same.

For eg he starts the epistle calling jesus Lord and uses the name jesus to refer to Jesus but in verse 9 says :

"But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, was disputing about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a blasphemous judgment, but said, ‘The Lord rebuke you.’” Jude 1:8-9

If he meant jesus it's strange that he nw refers to Jesus as Michael.

Then just afterwards he again speaks of jesus again being his Lord.

Richirich713:
Doesn't Michael mean- "Who is like God" a rhetorical question?
Honestly I can't see Michael being jesus, cuz in Epistle of Jude he speaks of jesus and Michael in a manner that seems to indicate they are not the same.
For eg he starts the epistle calling jesus Lord and uses the name jesus to refer to Jesus but in verse 9 says :
"But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, was disputing about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a blasphemous judgment, but said, ‘The Lord rebuke you.’” Jude 1:8-9
If he meant jesus it's strange that he nw refers to Jesus as Michael.
Then just afterwards he again speaks of jesus again being his Lord.

Mi'chael was the name of Jesus before he was born in flesh as the christ.
Infact,their are theological hypothesis supporting the notion that God's first creation were two powerful seraphims(or arch-angels),one on his right(jesus) and the other on his left(lucifer).

EVarn:
Mi'chael was the name of Jesus before he was born in flesh as the christ.
Infact,their are theological hypothesis supporting the notion that God's first creation were two powerful seraphims(or arch-angels),one on his right(jesus) and the other on his left(lucifer).

Well, there are places where God did manifested as an Angel, but claiming that Jesus was first Michael before he actually became Jesus, lacks merit and does not have any biblical bearing.

Appleyard:
Well, there are places where God did manifested as an Angel, but claiming that Jesus was first Michael before he actually became Jesus, lacks merit and does not have any biblical bearing.

The book of Daniel chapters 10 and 12 are strong biblical references to the identity of Michael.
Why was Michael referred to as one of the "chief princes"?,why was he called "the great prince of israel"?,wasnt jesus also called "prince of the people of israel"?,if so,can israel have two princes?.
Why did the book of Revelations narrate the battle of heaven in the context of: "Michael and his hosts",is Michael the commander of the hosts of heaven?,if so,why did Isaiah say jesus shall establish the throne of david with "judgement and justice"?,and why did the old testament refer to God as "the lord of host"?,can the heavenly hosts have two commanders?.

Hebrews 1 dwells at length on why Jesus is not an angels but a Son. Read 4-14. Look

Hebrews 1:4-5 King James Version (KJV)
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

-Jesus is MUCH BETTER than angels
-God said to Jesus and not any of his angels , 'you are my son'

Jesus being sent from God may be regarded as a messenger as far as His assignment is concerned, and it is with this that Reformers called Jesus Michael, but Jesus is clearly the Creator not a Creature like angels

vooks:
Hebrews 1 dwells at length on why Jesus is not an angels but a Son. Read 4-14. Look
Hebrews 1:4-5 King James Version (KJV)
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
-Jesus is MUCH BETTER than angels
-God said to Jesus and not any of his angels , 'you are my son'
Jesus being sent from God may be regarded as a messenger as far as His assignment is concerned, and it is with this that Reformers called Jesus Michael, but Jesus is clearly the Creator not a Creature like angels

The old testament refers to angels as "sons of God",the books of Genesis 6:4,Job 1:6,2:1 referred to angels as "sons of God",was the old testament referring to Jesus(using plural "sons")?.

EVarn:
The old testament refers to angels as "sons of God",the books of Genesis 6:4,Job 1:6,2:1 referred to angels as "sons of God",was the old testament referring to Jesus(using plural "sons")?.

Hebrews is New Testament so angels here mean angels .

If angels are sons and Jesus is a Son, then what contrast is being made? Isn't it nonsensical saying God did not say this to any of his angels but he said it to his angel?

Supposing v5 is talking about men not angels.

Hebrews 1:4-5 King James Version (KJV)
4 Being made so much better than the MEN, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the MEN said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

If God gave Jesus a name better than MEN and he never said 'thou art my son' to any MAN but He said so to Jesus, Jesus can't be a man. Comprehnde

vooks:
Hebrews is New Testament so angels here mean angels .
If angels are sons and Jesus is a Son, then what contrast is being made? Isn't it nonsensical saying God did not say this to any of his angels but he said it to his angel?
Supposing v5 is talking about men not angels.
Hebrews 1:4-5 King James Version (KJV)
4 Being made so much better than the MEN, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the MEN said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
If God gave Jesus a name better than MEN and he never said 'thou art my son' to any MAN but He said so to Jesus, Jesus can't be a man. Comprehnde

Hebrew was talking about "messangers",the original meaning of angel is messanger.
Hebrew 1 was referring to the prophets of old.
Why would the old testament refer to angels as "sons of God",and the new testament say otherwise?.

EVarn:
Hebrew was talking about "messangers",the original meaning of angel is messanger.
Hebrew 1 was referring to the prophets of old.
Why would the old testament refer to angels as "sons of God",and the new testament say otherwise?.

Angels are messengers true but Hebrews is talking about angelic beings not prophets of old.
Angels in New Testament mean angelic beings unless you read different bibles than myself.

When you are not busy being confused, please read through Hebrews 1.

Hebrews 1:6 (KJV)
And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Where do you find God commanding 'prophets of old' to worship Jesus when Jesus is born?


Cc Gombs,Image123,Scholar8200,Joagbaje

vooks:

Angels are messengers true but Hebrews is talking about angelic beings not prophets of old.
Angels in New Testament mean angelic beings unless you read different bibles than myself.

When you are not busy being confused, please read through Hebrews 1.

Hebrews 1:6 (KJV)
And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Where do you find God commanding 'prophets of old' to worship Jesus when Jesus is born?


Cc Gombs,Image123,Scholar8200,Joagbaje

Michael isnt an angel,he was referred to as an "arch-angel",the word 'arch' means leader or ruler or chief.
If Michael was referred to as the "ruler(chief) of angels",then wouldnt all angels worship him as was written in Hebrews 1:6?.
Again,you tend to disregard the old testament accounts of the identity of Michael.

EVarn:
Michael isnt an angel,he was referred to as an "arch-angel",the word 'arch' means leader or ruler or chief.
If Michael was referred to as the "ruler(chief) of angels",then wouldnt all angels worship him as was written in Hebrews 1:6?.
Again,you tend to disregard the old testament accounts of the identity of Michael.

What are you smoking Negro?
Archangel is chief angel

Who told you Michael is the Son of God is Jesus ?

vooks:

What are you smoking Negro? Archangel is chief angel
Who told you Michael is the Son of God is Jesus ?

what are you sniffing? who told you Michael wasnt Jesus?

EVarn:
what are you sniffing?
who told you Michael wasnt Jesus?

Because we are told Jesus is not an angel and because NOWHERE is Jesus called Michael except in your imagination. Fortunately we follow scriptures not hallucinations

EVarn:
what are you sniffing?
who told you Michael wasnt Jesus?

My brother.


Revelation 12vs 7 after Jesus Christ resurrection.



And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels
fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and
his angels.

At least we've known Jesus by this time.

vooks:


Because we are told Jesus is not an angel and because NOWHERE is Jesus called Michael except in your imagination. Fortunately we follow scriptures not hallucinations

Neither were we told that satan was an angel,yet we deduce through theoretical analysis.
Everything about the celestial world is not written in the bible,but we are meant to unravel the mysteries of the kingdom of God.

mayorall:
My brother. Revelation 12vs 7 after Jesus Christ resurrection.


And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels.
At least we've known Jesus by this time.

That is what i'm talking about.

EVarn:
Neither were we told that satan was an angel,yet we deduce through theoretical analysis.
Everything about the celestial world is not written in the bible,but we are meant to unravel the mysteries of the kingdom of God.

Young man, read your bible.

Job 1:6 (KJV)
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
Satan with sons of God

Revelation 12:9 (KJV)
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
'....and his angels...'

Matthew 25:41 (KJV)
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
'...the devil and his angels...'
You want it written in Yoruba for you?

We have clear evidence Jesus is not an angel
We have evidence Michael is a chief angel

We use our brains to conclude that Jesus is not Michael

vooks:

Young man, read your bible.
Job 1:6 (KJV)
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
Satan with sons of God
Revelation 12:9 (KJV)
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
'....and his angels...'
Matthew 25:41 (KJV)
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
'...the devil and his angels...'
You want it written in Yoruba for you?
We have clear evidence Jesus is not an angel
We have evidence Michael is a chief angel
We use our brains to conclude that Jesus is not Michael

Where did the bible say satan is himself an angel?,give me the scriptural reference: its theological deduction.
God is the 'lord of host',is God an angel?

[quote author=EVarn post=39311450]Where did the bible say satan is himself an angel?,give me the scriptural reference: its theological deduction.
God is the 'lord of host',is God an angel?[/quote

You are digressing needlessly. What makes Jesus Michael?

1. We know Michael is an angel
2. We know Jesus is not an angel

[quote author=vooks post=39316377][/quote]
I have made these points before,but let me reiterate them,
(1) In the book of Daniel,Michael was referred to as the "great prince of isreal"; however,Isaiah called Jesus{in his prophesy} the "prince of israel".Can Israel have two princes?
(2) Revelation referred to "Michael and his angels",however God is called the "Lord of host".Can the heavenly host have two commanders?
(3) Daniel called Michael "one of the chief princes" and illustrated Michael liberating an angel of God from a deadlock with the "prince of the kingdom of persia"(satan) who had withstood the angel for 21 days.
(4) Jude called Michael "the archangel",meaning; chief(ruler) of angels.However,Jesus was described as being worshipped by angels in the book of Hebrew.
(5) Satan challenged Jesus to throw himself down from a tall mountain "if he was truly the son of God",why would satan doubt the position of christ in the celestial arrangement?

[quote author=EVarn post=39319860]
I have made these points before,but let me reiterate them,

Make my day

(1) In the book of Daniel,Michael was referred to as the "great prince of isreal"; however,Isaiah called Jesus{in his prophesy} the "prince of israel".Can Israel have two princes?

Quote the verses

(2) Revelation referred to "Michael and his angels",however God is called the "Lord of host".Can the heavenly host have two commanders?

Silly and plain nonsensical. Jesus is Lord of Lords and King of Kings. So if an angel is in charge of the angels, they'd still be UNDER Jesus.

I was looking forward to an intelligent debate not silly semantics

(3) Daniel called Michael "one of the chief princes" and illustrated Michael liberating an angel of God from a deadlock with the "prince of the kingdom of persia"(satan) who had withstood the angel for 21 days.

Who or what told you Prince of Persia is Satan?

Besides, so what? What conclusion do you draw from this? Why do you draw them?

Bear with me as I teach you how to think scripturally

(4) Jude called Michael "the archangel",meaning; chief(ruler) of angels.However,Jesus was described as being worshipped by angels in the book of Hebrew.

A chief angel is still an angel.

(5) Satan challenged Jesus to throw himself down from a tall mountain "if he was truly the son of God",why would satan doubt the position of christ in the celestial arrangement?

Who told you Satan doubted?
Satan was tempting Jesus to sin. The devil knew who Jesus was. Why do you think he was tempting him in the first place and not John the Baptist?

And even if the devil doubted, how does that make Jesus an angel?

Please young man, spend time in scripture and discard the trash you are consuming

EVarn:
Mi'chael was the name of Jesus before he was born in flesh as the christ.
Infact,their are theological hypothesis supporting the notion that God's first creation were two powerful seraphims(or arch-angels),one on his right(jesus) and the other on his left(lucifer).

Crap. We don't believe in myths we believe in the word of God.

EVarn:
Where did the bible say satan is himself an angel?,give me the scriptural reference: its theological deduction.
God is the 'lord of host',is God an angel?

Throw away the gibberish you are taught. Lucifer is an Angel both Ezekiel and Isaiah spoke of it like that.

EVarn:
The old testament refers to angels as "sons of God",the books of Genesis 6:4,Job 1:6,2:1 referred to angels as "sons of God",was the old testament referring to Jesus(using plural "sons")?.

Angels are sons of God Jesus is the Son of God. Two different entities.

Highcuerayte:
Throw away the gibberish you are taught. Lucifer is an Angel both Ezekiel and Isaiah spoke of it like that.

Who told you lucifer is satan?,explain by using scriptural reference.

Highcuerayte:
Angels are sons of God Jesus is the Son of God. Two different entities.

This is the most ridiculous arguement I have heard for quite a while now,how is "son" different from "sons"?,isnt "sons" the plural of "son"?: how can angels who are "sons of God" be different from Jesus who is the "son of God"?,arent they all sons of God?.

EVarn:
Who told you lucifer is satan?,explain by using scriptural reference.

I put up Scripture references already so you go and read them.

Lucifer was then an angel of God,an Archangel to be precise.He ruled as King in the then world which recreated by God is now our planet earth.His name then was Lucifer.He decide to Ascend to heaven in the far north where God dwell but he failed because no Angel can Ascend up only God can Ascend and Descend. So when he failed he host up his angels for a showdown with God but was defeated and his Kingdom which was the world before our recreated world was destroyed by flood of water and God cause Sun to cease giving lights which is what you see in the second verse of Genesis. When defeated he became Satan by name.

EVarn:
This is the most ridiculous arguement I have heard for quite a while now,how is "son" different from "sons"?,isnt "sons" the plural of "son"?: how can angels who are "sons of God" be different from Jesus who is the "son of God"?,arent they all sons of God?.

And that is the foolishness that makes the Jew and the Greeks stumble. You figure what that means out.

And for the record I didn't say "Sons" I said "A son" and "The Son"

What makes the Jew want to stone Jesus when he said he is the Son of God? You think they would have stoned him if he said he is a son of God? I tell you No. "The" makes the difference. "The Son of God " is not a title,it's a name only God bears.

Like I said throw away the gibberish you are taught and learn the Truth.

EVarn:
This is the most ridiculous arguement I have heard for quite a while now,how is "son" different from "sons"?,isnt "sons" the plural of "son"?: how can angels who are "sons of God" be different from Jesus who is the "son of God"?,arent they all sons of God?.

There are kings and there is King. Jesus is God's only begotten son. according to John 3:16.

There are sons and there is a Son.