rabzy:
@Joseph1013

How are you doing today.....still snipping and chipping away people's faith in a supreme being eh?...lol.

Saw a picture about slavery which interested me...asking why the Bible did not condemn slavery...its because slavery as practiced by the Israelite or according to the mosaic law is not the same as slavery today. In fact slaves in the Niger-delta of old are handled quite differently from how slavery was practiced in the plantations of America. So you have to look as the word 'slave' with respects to the culture where it is practiced r how it was practiced.

[b]Rabzy bro...been ages! I'm well, thank you! How are you?

Oh yeah, still trying to see reason as to why people believe in absurdities. Can you blame me after being in the charade for such a long time? Guess I'm making up for lost time. Who knows, maybe...just maybe Yahweh will arrest me like he did Paul The Apostle. Not that I will hold my breath, he's known for not showing up.

I'm a very bothered by the way you have gone about defending slavery in the bible. Is it that you have not read the text or you have wilfully decided not to look at the atrocities?

Well, let's see the following together:

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

You see, many and Christians will try to ignore the moral problems of slavery by saying that these slaves were actually servants or indentured servants. Many translations of the Bible use the word "servant", "bondservant", or "manservant" instead of "slave" to make the Bible seem less immoral than it really is. While many slaves may have worked as household servants, that doesn't mean that they were not slaves who were bought, sold, and treated worse than livestock. The passage above shows that slaves are clearly property to be bought and sold like livestock.

The following passage describes how the Hebrew slaves are to be treated.

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

Notice how they can get a male Hebrew slave to become a permanent slave by keeping his wife and children hostage until he says he wants to become a permanent slave. What kind of family values are these?

The following passage describes the sickening practice of sex slavery. How can anyone think it is moral to sell your own daughter as a sex slave?

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.
(Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

So these are the Bible family values! A man can buy as many sex slaves as he wants as long as he feeds them, clothes them, and screws them!

What does the Bible say about beating slaves? It says you can beat both male and female slaves with a rod so hard that as long as they don't die right away you are cleared of any wrong doing.

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.
(Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

You would think that Jesus and the New Testament would have a different view of slavery, but slavery is still approved of in the New Testament, as the following passages show.

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.
(Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them.
(1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)


In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn't know they were doing anything wrong.

The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given."
(Luke 12:47-48 NLT)

For an African like you whose history is filled with the wickedness of slavery to try to glorify slavery is beyond ridiculous.[/b]

joseph1013:

Nice...it's really good that you have the patience to answer my questions. Most religionists just throw tantrums along the road.

About your statement, why should we believe Jesus when he says he is the Truth? Other people in the past have said exactly the same things.

Why should we believe the testimony of the Bible seeing that we have had cause to see that it is a very unreliable historical accounts of things?

Living4christ:


People that proved the Bible to be false, are skeptical about some of life challenges and problems not having the answer to it, man is limited not knowing all, we should not because of the ignorance of something condemn it from being reliable or true, as this would be dangerous if found out to be true and correct afterward.

There've not been an accurate proof of evolution, showing that it's all in their head.

But the truth of the bible is evident everywhere, yet still they'll say "that it's all fiction", calculating back, the people that translated the bible were not born when the bible was written neither was there father nor mother, but they translated what has happened somewhere in Israel which the Israelite is aware of. The proof of accuracy of the Bible still lives (the physical proof) "that is ISRAEL" study israel then study bible prophecy you will find out that it was no mere fiction

I also am a living proof, the Bible changed my life through the knowledge of the My Lord "Jesus" and also the working of His Grace. Testimonies abound worldwide of the proof of a Supernatural force or Spirit and miracle (which i have heard, experience and seen) I know God exist! I pray to Him he answers, and God is the Sovereign Creator of those supernatural spirits or rather gods.

However this interaction would be more fruitful if only we had the opportunity to meet and discuss one on one, or meat someone you know is devoted to God (i would suggest you meet a Deeper Life Pastor or any member you areconvincede is worth listening to). You can still ask questions though, i will be happy to answer.

Thanks

joseph1013:


I think you are incorrectly using language here. If they have PROVEn the people to be false then they are not ignorant. It is a widely acknowledged fact that the Bible is not inherent. if you ask that we wait in the face of evidence, then why dont you wait before you take drugs when sick hoping that it would one day be found to be false?




Pardon me, but like most Nigerians, you have no idea what Evolution is. It has so much evidence that it dwarfs the ones for the Gravitational theory and Germ theory. 99..9% of the World's finest scientists do not back something that is just in their heads.

.

No, the Bible's truth is not evident anywhere. Slavery in Egypt didn't happen. The Flood didn't happen. Tower of Babel did't happen. No Worldwide census took place. I could go on and on.

Israelites you mention do not believe in what you believe. They will laugh you to scorn when you mention Jesus as the messiah. They think Christians are dumb.



Let me ask you: what unique experience do you have that has not happened to someone in India who believes in one of their 2000 gods? If your experience is proof of Yahweh, is Ojedola's experience proof to the existence and supremacy of Orunmila? Do you believe that Amadioha is Supreme? Well, some people do and have better experiences than you do. How do you solve that lacuna in your mind?



At the risk of sounding arrogant, while I was a Christian, there was no Deeper Life Pastor I met that was as vast and knowledgeable about Christianity than I was. I remember several instances I led some members to abandon their old-age traditions and embrace what some Christians call The New Creation Realities.

You said to ask you a question. Alright. Can you share with me one of those experiences that you had which convinced you that Yahweh was
real?

Living4christ:


Words cannot express what i had experience in christ, practical christianity is my watchword meet a charismatic preacher to proof it.

I know deep down me that this God i serve is unique from all other and Mighty in power, he is Great indeed, search more you will see and believe, don't just observe if you really want to know, meet people that have impacted on the world.

the truth and accuracy of the bible lies here, http://amazingbibletimeline.com/bible_questions/q9_historical_proof_bible/, and the truth of the apostles act lies here, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_reliability_of_the_Acts_of_the_Apostles and http://www.6000years.org/frame.php?page=home

and this http://www.6000years.org/frame.php?page=mt_sinai

joseph1013:


Unfortunately, objectivity cannot allow me to take you at your words. You will need to bring your experiences to the table and then we look at it together.



Again, instincts, individual guts feelings are subjective. I know a Rastafarian man from Jamaica who swears that smoking cannabis is a spiritual act, often accompanied by Bible study. He says he knows deep down inside him that that's what Jah commands. Do you agree with him? Of course not. Does he believe you? Definitely not! See?



Unfortunately, that site is very unreliable. For one, it believes that the earth is 6000 years. This is widely incorrect and there are several scientific proofs that show us that it cannot be true.

ikenigel:




What is wrong with you man? NOBODY is telling you that their PERSONAL EXPERIENCE is PROOF that God exists. No person is bloody telling you that! We are telling you that when you drop all your notions/beliefs about God and admit your "not-knowing" / ignorance of spiritual perception, YOUR OWN personal experience will prove it to YOU & YOU ALONE.

joseph1013:


Unfortunately, objectivity cannot allow me to take you at your words. You will need to bring your experiences to the table and then we look at it together.



Again, instincts, individual guts feelings are subjective. I know a Rastafarian man from Jamaica who swears that smoking cannabis is a spiritual act, often accompanied by Bible study. He says he knows deep down inside him that that's what Jah commands. Do you agree with him? Of course not. Does he believe you? Definitely not! See?



Unfortunately, that site is very unreliable. For one, it believes that the earth is 6000 years. This is widely incorrect and there are several scientific proofs that show us that it cannot be true.

joseph1013:


The same God that you say is beyond knowing? Make up your mind! And again, why do I need to drop my beliefs? Did Paul The Apostle drop his beliefs before God supposedly revealed himself to him? Am I and millions of people worldwide demanding that God reveals himself lesser humans?

Living4christ:


So what do you say about the proofs, leave the inaccuracy of earth's age.

ikenigel:

[b] When I say ADMIT your 'not-knowing', I don't mean you will ever get to the point where you can claim you KNOW him(full knowledge of God). Get it?
Don't bring anybody into this! Do you believe so much in the bible to believe Apostle Paul's story? Why bring it up here to defend yourself?
Look, I understand you were a christian who probably didn't know what he was doing and why he believed in whatever he believed in. I understand you now want to know WHY you were doing those things, which is good and better than just blindly doing what you dunno! But to understand it, you must drop what you think/assume/believe that 'God' is. You must admit you don't know anything about all these speculations and pray/hope that someday you will understand. Your strong stand that God 'doesn't' exist or that God is discriminatory, or an imaginary being up in this sky etc' are blinding your spiritual senses from this experience that you need yourself. I don't know how to say it anymore. A word is enough for the one who is wise. [/b]

joseph1013:


I wonder why you do not want to bring Paul into the discussion. Is it that you dont believe his conversion story, or you believe that it is one-time event? If it happened to Paul, as you guys believe, why can it not happen to myself and millions of others who ask for proof? Is that too hard for God to do?

And if you cannot fully know God, how then can you know him? LOL.

ikenigel:

[b] It looks as if I'm wasting my time on your thread. Well, it's cool cos I know I'm not just commenting here for YOU alone, but for many more skeptics who are reading along. You see nothing concerns this argument with Paul or anybody. I don't care about any stories from anywhere to prove anything to you. You clearly want to back out from our main argument by bringing in one 'Paul' but it's not working. You care about these stories because you're looking for more things that will blind you from seeing the truth. Let's leave anything from any history here. Argue with valid points not make belief. The same book you argue against is the same book you want to use to support your claim. Who argues like that? Argue reasonably my friend. Let us both leave books out of here.
What do you mean by 'you guys'? Don't classify me anywhere. You don't know me. I'm here to argue with you alone and I'm not with any 'You guys'. As regards your question, I don't know how you can know him. You like using the word KNOW but understand that Nobody can fully claim knowledge of God. Find out these things yourself from experience and keeping an open mind or keep deceiving yourself with illusions, false beliefs and fake stories. [/b]

joseph1013:


Your point is? We should drop our quest for enquiry and reason and simply believe, then patiently wait for him to reveal himself to us? Paul's conversion story is not true, and if true does not have any bearing to the 21st century?

Is my summary on point?

ikenigel:
Summary NOT on point! We as humans were created to have that desire and enquire about things. We have reason to help us make the right choices. These intellectual faculties must be used by man to guide his steps. But there are things that can never be understood by these faculties. Therefore, it is wise for man to admit the limits of these faculties for therein lies wisdom. What you need to DROP is your "assumed" knowledge of the attributes, properties and characteristics of those things which has crossed the border line of our intellect and reason. In dropping them, you start gaining little insight standing on the border of reason. But to think you know everything and that you can cross the limit of the intellect and find out/claim knowledge about the unknown is plain stupidity and foolishness. So keep the desire/quest to know, but never think you've known/had knowledge of the boundless/infinite. About Paul, I don't know. Why did you bring him up in the first place? If you believe so much in the bible, why are you an atheist??

joseph1013:


[b]The bolded shows how wrong you really can be. You say there are some things we can never know. Well, how do we know what we will never know until we make more and more research which includes asking lots and lots of questions?

What you said was what was said in ancient Babylon in what is present-day Iraq. The priests had taught that lunar eclipses were caused by the restlessness of the gods. They were considered evil omens that were directed against and threatened the lives of their kings. Then, local astronomers discovered the 18 year and 11.3 day (223 synodic month) interval between lunar eclipses. This suggested that the eclipses had natural cause.

So you see, reasoning and enquiry has served us so well since the beginning of time in solving problems and destroying myths, why should we stop now simply because someone like you says there are some things we will never know?

There is not a time we say we know everything. We only say that you prove to us what you think you know for which we have not found objective evidence. How does that translate to arrogance? You are the arrogant one for saying we will not know despite the amazing achievements and enquiry of science into the unknown.[/b]

joseph1013:


You say there are some things we can never know. Well, how do we know what we will never know until we make more and more research which includes asking lots and lots of questions?

ikenigel:

The ONLY way to KNOW(what you MAY be permitted to KNOW) about the ultimately unknowable is by DROPPING ANY ASSUMED KNOWLEDGE OF IT and keeping an OPEN/FREE/UNCERTAIN mindset about these things. More and more RESEARCH applies to the things experienced PHYSICALLY in the physical world you see around. You cannot RESEARCH INTO what you don't know about. Admit ignorance and see it for yourself. Ask questions if you'd be willing to still keep an open mind after getting answers. The answer you're seeking will come from inside you and you alone.Outside opinion may help, but the answer you will get personally through spiritual awareness/experience will fully satisfy your so called 'outside' research/curiousity. Anyway, enjoy your strong position on non-existence of God.

joseph1013:


I assume you know God. Right? Of course that's based on your feelings, not on any hard evidence since there's none. Are you as comfortable with a Muslim who says the same?

ikenigel:
Dude, your questions are irrelevant to the subject matter of the existence of God. What I'm concerned about is to put you in a position where you will find the proof that God indeed exists for yourself as an atheist. It appears your PROBLEM here with God is actually 'why there are VARIOUS religions' right? If you have a problem with the different religions, then that's up to you to do something about it, if you care. But don't use the multiple religious beliefs as A REASON to BOLDLY assert that God does not exist. All these different people who believe differently come from ONE TRUE GOD. That they believe in different things does not make God multiple or NON-EXISTENT as you claim.

joseph1013:


Your first link talked about the accuracy of the Bible. Yes, some events in the Bible are accurate. Like the sojourn in Babylon. But there are several events in the Bible that never took place. Like the Worldwide Flood, Tower of Babel, the Universal Census. They never did. And that is why an overwhelming majority of Biblical scholars do not believe in the inerrancy of the Scriptures.

Second link from Wikipedia has this displayed at the top



It means that what follows cannot be trusted.


The last two are by 6000years.com. Their claims have been disproved by World reknown archeologists. That site is fraud!

Living4christ:


Mount Ararat were Noah's ark was found is sure, remember that scientist most of them don't believe in God either, so depending on them can be damning because satan has blinded their eyes from the truth. I watched a video series on which scientist were trying to investigate what actually happened to the Wall of Jericho which the bible said that as the children of Israel sounded the trumpet the wall fell down flat, they were saying that it was not possible for a thick wall to fall by the sound of trumpet (well unfortunately miracles cannot be investigated but believe), God has tried a lot to make sure Humans believe and trust in him, but unfortunately, many have not yet believed that he is the creator of Heaven and earth, as because they don't understand how God created heaven and earth without any material, they were deceived to believe that humans evolved from nothing, that it was a series of random cosmic events that caused chemical processes to create life-forms. Stating that all life-forms on Earth are related from the most minuscule to the most complex. Do you believe this.

So they are just confused people seeking for answer, God only disposed the natural secrets to them but the Secret of Creation is not for all but will be revealed to his children in the last day, You cannot comprehend God, No one knows his beginning.

[b]See..the reason 99% of World renown scientists dont believe in God is not because Satan has blinded their eyes (who is Satan anyway?), it's because they have examined the evidence and seen nothing there.

For instance, you brought up the Ark of noah. It has not been found. Here (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/09/0920_040920_noahs_ark.html), National Geographic says that despite many expeditions, no scientific evidence of the ark has been found. The practice is widely regarded as pseudoscience, more specifically pseudoarchaeology.

Let's look at it together and employ common sense while we do so.

Let's compare the Titanic ship and the Noah's ark and see if the story ever told by the Bible pertaining the Noah flood is feasible.

TITANIC BOAT
HEIGHT ~ 175ft
LENGTH ~ 882 ft
WIDTH ~ 92 ft
CONSTRUCTION ~ Steel
CAPACITY ~ Maximum of 5000 humans + animals
STORAGE FACILITY ~ Maximum of 4 weeks

NOAH'S ARK (as told by the Bible in Genesis)
HEIGHT ~ 45ft
LENGTH ~ 450ft
WIDTH ~ 75ft
CONSTRUCTION ~ Wood
CAPACITY ~ Minimum of 50,000 animals + 2,000,000 insects + 8 humans
STORAGE FACILITY ~ Minimum of 1 year.

Now, can you see how sane people sometimes think that you cannot this kind of story unless you are silly?[/b]

Living4christ:

God told noah to build room for the animals, the titanic ship did not contain as much room or Genesis 6:14, but the titanic ship only had space for entertainment purposes and not as much room as the ark.

Well i believe i have tried to convince you, you cannot ask me what i do not know, and i cannot answer what i know not. But what evere you believe consider this, What if Hell is real? What if God does exist?, What if Jesus Was the True Salvation?

joseph1013:


Oh the Pascal's wager! Sounds familiar

Then have you considered this:

[img]http://3.bp..com/-90jRMSsVbSE/UEYvawbRpSI/AAAAAAAABNA/KtLDWLfYDes/s1600/pascalswagerfixed.jpg[/img]

Here is an "expanded" version:

[img]http://2.bp..com/-8NdaLJYgUIs/UEzOZj0N9jI/AAAAAAAABPs/jO2Lxk-rS0M/s1600/expanded.png[/img]

joseph1013:


[b]Rabzy bro...been ages! I'm well, thank you! How are you?

Oh yeah, still trying to see reason as to why people believe in absurdities. Can you blame me after being in the charade for such a long time? Guess I'm making up for lost time. Who knows, maybe...just maybe Yahweh will arrest me like he did Paul The Apostle. Not that I will hold my breath, he's known for not showing up.

I'm a very bothered by the way you have gone about defending slavery in the bible. Is it that you have not read the text or you have wilfully decided not to look at the atrocities?

Well, let's see the following together:

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

You see, many and Christians will try to ignore the moral problems of slavery by saying that these slaves were actually servants or indentured servants. Many translations of the Bible use the word "servant", "bondservant", or "manservant" instead of "slave" to make the Bible seem less immoral than it really is. While many slaves may have worked as household servants, that doesn't mean that they were not slaves who were bought, sold, and treated worse than livestock. The passage above shows that slaves are clearly property to be bought and sold like livestock.

The following passage describes how the Hebrew slaves are to be treated.

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

Notice how they can get a male Hebrew slave to become a permanent slave by keeping his wife and children hostage until he says he wants to become a permanent slave. What kind of family values are these?

The following passage describes the sickening practice of sex slavery. How can anyone think it is moral to sell your own daughter as a sex slave?

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.
(Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

So these are the Bible family values! A man can buy as many sex slaves as he wants as long as he feeds them, clothes them, and screws them!

[/b]

rabzy:



Hi Joseph, how are you doing today. lets look at what you wrote and how slaves are actually treated in Israel. In Exodus (Exodus 21:16) 16 “If anyone kidnaps a man and sells him or is caught holding him, he must be put to death. It is clearly stated that no Israelite should kidnap a man and sell him. So you cant just seize people either Israelite or foreign resident and sell him. That was ruled out. So what could make someone become a slave?

1. A person found guilty of stealing who was unable to make full restitution according to the Law could be sold as a slave and in this way pay off his debt. (Exodus 22:3) When he had worked off the debt, he could go free.

2.If an Israelite becomes poor and cannot sustain himself or his family, there is the provision for him to sell himself to a wealthy Israelite or even a foreigner, and he can get his freedom back by paying back his loan or after 6 years.

Since you can't seize a man and sell, that means the foreigner must have willingly sold himself out of extenuating circumstances...the difference with the foreigner is that he cant leave or buy himself back except if the master does so. The foreigner must weigh the decision carefully.
But both the indigene and foreigner were never sold nor treated like livestock as you said. Livestock never have say nor sell themselves willingly. See what the Bible said about how to slaves must be treated.

(Leviticus 25:39, 40) 39 “‘If your brother who lives nearby becomes poor and he has to sell himself to you, you must not force him to do slave labor. 40[b] He should be treated like a hired worker, like a settler[/b]. He should serve with you until the Jubilee year.
(Leviticus 25:49, 50) . . .Or if he himself has become wealthy, he may also buy himself back. 50 He should calculate with his purchaser the time from the year he sold himself to him until the Jubilee year, and the money of his sale will correspond to the number of years. His workdays during that time will be assessed at the rate of a hired worker. . ..

A slave must be treated as hired worker and his work should also be rated with the same pay as a hired worker, so regardless of whether they are household servants or field workers, they are to be treated as hired help and their work rated properly...you cant honestly say this is how livestock are treated or how slavery was done by surrounding nations even till date.
Cruel and abusive slavery was not allowed under God’s Law to Israel. While masters were allowed to discipline their slaves, excesses were forbidden.
A slave killed by his master was to be avenged. (Exodus 21:20) If the slave was maimed, losing a tooth or an eye, he was set free.—Exodus 21:26, 27.
This definitely does not connote a dehumanization or the kind of slavery we had in the trans-Atlantic or trans-Saharan slave trade.

When an Israelite slave was released, the master was required to be generous toward him. Deuteronomy 15:13, 14 says: “In case you should send him out from you as one set free, you must not send him out empty-handed. You should surely equip him with something from your flock and your threshing floor and your oil and winepress.”

In case of an Israelite man getting married to a woman provided by his master..he has a choice to wait for 6 years and be free and therefore not be indebted to his master forever by marrying the foreign woman provided. The foreign woman is suppose to be in owners house forever by law, her been given to an a willing Israelite man does not change that. If the man does not love his master or does not want to continue serving in that house, he can rightly remove the woman, and to prove that it was something that was done willingly, the owner has to bring him before witnesses in the house of God and make it a public and official by piercing the ear. So there is no case of kidnapping here or using subterfuge to hold him perpetually a slave.

The Bible clearly stated that all Israelite men and women, who stole or sold themselves must be freed after 6 years. Apparently there is another arrangement in which an indebted man will sell/give out his daughter with the view for the man to marry her himself if she is suitable to his liking. In the event the lady is not suitable, he cannot sell her to a foreigner but allow her to be bought back. He can alternatively give her to his son as his legal wife and she ceases to be a slave girl but a daughter to him. In both cases of either himself marrying her or his son, the woman has the full rights of a wife.