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Is The Biblical Exodus Historical ? by Nobody: 5:22pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
I was reading some comments the other day when I read some one replying with a comment that gives a punch to the plausibility of the Biblical Exodus account . It implies that if it is not historical or plausible ,then Christianity crumbles unless otherwise . This is because if the Exodus account was unreal ,there was no Moses and Jesus citing Moses who didn't exist is confusion. It adds to Jesus never existing . No derailing please...is the Exodus account historical or did it really happen ? (This isn't a call for faith or belief ) Thanks Remilekun101, frosbel , Pr0ton , Johnydon22, Olaadegbu ,ifeness, Folykaze, winner01,winsomeX etc 1 Like |
Re: Is The Biblical Exodus Historical ? by WinsomeX: 7:48pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
TheAgba: I am a fundamentalist Christian. I regard the historical accounts of scripture to be true. The Moses story did occur. And there are achaelogical findings that buttress many biblical accounts. |
Re: Is The Biblical Exodus Historical ? by Pr0ton: 7:58pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
Christians and Jews can have a hard time with this one as there is no archeological evidence to support the Exodus, but rather archeological findings that disprove it. No record of the remarkable 602,550 adult males excluding women and children being emigrated from Egypt is found in any of the Egyptian historical records, not even the Red Sea magic. The two treasure cities that were buildt by the Hebrews in Exd1:11 will turn out to be a fabrigated passage when you discover the cities never existed during the proposed chronological period of the Exodus. There may be some surpressed truth in the story tho, nevertheless the probability of the story's actuality is 1 to 10,000. 3 Likes |
Re: Is The Biblical Exodus Historical ? by Pr0ton: 7:59pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
WinsomeX: Findings like? 1 Like |
Re: Is The Biblical Exodus Historical ? by Nobody: 8:39pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
WinsomeX: Do you believe Oduduwa came down from heaven on a chain? 5 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Is The Biblical Exodus Historical ? by FOLYKAZE(m): 8:48pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
The bible is a compilation of folklores from different cultures and tradition. A lot of accounts in the bible were stolen from ancient writings. Part of this is the creation story, ten commandment, Jesus birth and the revelation. The majority of Exodus account have no historical and archeological evidence to buttress it ever happened. However, i dont take all the accounts as false. Ecclesiastical and the Proverb contain some philosophical truth which I cant do away. I am less concern if Jesus exist. I look more into the commandment, love. I dont care if Buddha was born by elephant. I am very much concern about seeking of enlightment. Same with Orishas, I am concerned about Iwa pele (closest english word to tha word is Good character). 6 Likes |
Re: Is The Biblical Exodus Historical ? by FOLYKAZE(m): 8:52pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
ifeness: Oduduwa account is allegory, yet it is historical. In the creation story, Obatala represent white light. Oduduwa is representation of first particle. The chain represent DNA. Remember the chain is in a pool of water. . .life began in water. Oduduwa has to come down through the chain to make living being. 2 Likes |
Re: Is The Biblical Exodus Historical ? by Nobody: 8:56pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
WinsomeX: I wanna learn more . So there are archeological findings regarding the Exodus too ? Please help me with it. |
Re: Is The Biblical Exodus Historical ? by Nobody: 8:56pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
FOLYKAZE: I agree.... 1 Like |
Re: Is The Biblical Exodus Historical ? by Pr0ton: 9:06pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
FOLYKAZE: Here is forcing myth to parallel science. The structure of the DNA is different from what a chain would look like. The DNA looks like a spiral ladder or twisted ladder which by no means equal chain in structure. And you got it wrong. Life didn't begin in water, the scientific suggestion is in the mud. 1 Like |
Re: Is The Biblical Exodus Historical ? by Pr0ton: 9:15pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
FOLYKAZE Here are pictures of DNA and chain ![]() ![]() 1 Like |
Re: Is The Biblical Exodus Historical ? by Rilwayne001: 9:23pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
[b] Exodus 12:37-38 The Israelites journeyed from Rameses to Sukkoth. There were about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides women and children Many other people went up with them, and also large droves of livestock, both flocks and herds. The Bible also states that the Israelites were important to the Egyptians because as slaves they were the workforce of Egypt: Exodus 14:5 When the king of Egypt was told that the people had fled, Pharaoh and his officials changed their minds about them and said, “What have we done? We have let the Israelites go and have lost their services!” <<< This would mean that at the Exodus, ancient Egypt suffered a catastrophic loss of most, if not all, of its labour workforce. According to the Bible there were 600,000 Israelite men that came out of Egypt. If you factor in women and children that figure would be closer to a few million. The problem is that there is absolutely no evidence of this historical event. There are no ancient Egyptian records of the sudden disappearance of millions of their people. There is also no physical evidence of settlements out in the desert where all these people and livestock encamped. From a purely practical point of view, how did Moses wake up and mobilise millions people in the middle of the night without being detected by the Egyptians ![]() 5 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Is The Biblical Exodus Historical ? by FOLYKAZE(m): 9:30pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
Pr0ton: Mystical account differs from plain account as the former tends to bring related object or character into explaining a phenomenon. Allegories are not described directly but closely and related entity are used to represent phenomenon. Ifeness understand me because I believe he is a Yoruba. The word translated to chain there is ewon in Yoruba. It could mean chain, handcuff or shackle or prison. We dont have the word for DNA in Yoruba. So, when we look at DNA under a microscope, we have something that appears like double helix, which is similar to what the Yoruba people call chain. Prison is ruled out because thee account tells that Oduduwa climb down on this chain. The chain you have in that picture does not look like something that can be climb down on. So only the DNA does here. The second account said there was a body of water in the ealier stage of life which life started from. Some scientists call it primodial soup. What I know is that mystical account dont give direct description of a phenomenon. The pool of water from the account is the origin of life. From science life starts from the water. 1 Like |
Re: Is The Biblical Exodus Historical ? by FOLYKAZE(m): 9:44pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
Pr0ton: Thanks for the two pics. But to me it is not explaining anything. Do you know the Yoruba creation story? Do you understand Yoruba terminologies? The account says Oduduwa is Atewonro. The word atewonro means climbing down on a chain. Ask this question, can you climb on that kind of Chain. I mean the chain pic? Pls answer this |
Re: Is The Biblical Exodus Historical ? by Pr0ton: 10:28pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
FOLYKAZE: Oduduwa is the legendary progenitor of the Yoruba. There are two variants of the story of how he achieved this feat. The first is cosmogonic, the second, political. The cosmogonic version also has two variants. According to the first variant of the cosmogonic myth, Orisanla (Obatala) was the arch-divinity who was chosen by Olodumare, the supreme deity to create a solid land out of the primordial water that constituted the earth and of populating the land with human beings. He descended from heaven on a chain, carrying a small snail shell full of earth, palm kernels and a five-toed chicken. He was to empty the content of the snail shell on the water after placing some pieces of iron on it, and then to place the chicken on the earth to spread it over the primordial water. According to the first version of the story, Obatala completed this task to the satisfaction of Olodumare. He was then given the task of making the physical body of human beings after which Olodumare would give them the breath of life. He also completedthis task and this is why he has the title of"obarisa" the king of orisas. The other variant ofthe cosmogonic myth does not credit Obatala with the completion of the task. While it concedes that Obatala was given the task, it avers that Obatala got drunk even before he gotto the earth and he was unable to do the job... Does the chain used there sensibly imply a handcuff or the first chain I posted? Oh he climbed down on this: ![]() And how does that resemble a DNA structure anyway? FOLYKAZE: There is nothing related between DNA and any of the types of chain talked about so far. In story, the purpose of the chain is starkly different from the DNA and its function. It's you forcing myth to parallel science. The double helix doesn't resemble any of the chains we've talked about. While there can be some points where the word 'chain' is applicable in describing some parts of the DNA like the two polynucleotide chains but never the DNA structure as a whole. Prison is ruled out because thee account tells that Oduduwa climb down on this chain. The chain you have in that picture does not look like something that can be climb down on. So only the DNA does here. You're apparently saying none of the two chains, and those mentioned too in your post, can be climbed on, but something of the DNA structure which is also called chain? It's absurd. Desperation is obvious there. The second account said there was a body of water in the ealier stage of life which life started from. Some scientists call it primodial soup. What I know is that mystical account dont give direct description of a phenomenon. The pool of water from the account is the origin of life. From science life starts from the water. If science ever said life started from the water it is now obselete so that the prevailing scientific fact is life started from mud. https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn4307-clays-matchmaking-could-have-sparked-life/?_e_pi_=7%2CPAGE_ID10%2C7377641602 |
Re: Is The Biblical Exodus Historical ? by Pr0ton: 10:38pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
@FOLYKAZE And the story tells he descended on a chain, not climbed on. If it was something of the DNA structure then he would have used a 'descended or climbed on a twisted ladder' or simply 'ladder'. That would be understandable. 1 Like |
Re: Is The Biblical Exodus Historical ? by johnydon22(m): 5:25pm On Nov 03, 2015 |
[b] One thing we should bear in mind is the Torah (Or five books of moses as many may know it) Is not one whole book but rather a collection of many works, oral traditions, folklores and works of distinct timelines spanning decades or even centuries. The exodus story scholarly consensus has it was written when isreal was in Babylonia as captives, it motive was to accord theological strength and support to the people that they will be restored. Modern scholarly consensus recognize the story to be quite mythical and there is no record of hebrews ever being in Egypt. Take for instance the "Death of every Egyptian first born" as recorded in Exodus, there was no egyptian record of such event that must have been a devastating event that shook the whole egypt. . but no egypt was silent over it, it never recorded even a thing.. Also according to wikipedia " Although mythical elements are not so prominent in Exodus as in Genesis , some writers claim ancient legends have an influence on the book's content: for example, the story of the infant Moses's salvation from the Nile may have some basis in an earlier legend of king Sargon , while the story of the parting of the Red Sea trades on Mesopotamian creation mythology . Similarly, the Covenant Code (the law code in Exodus 20:22–23:33) has some similarities in both content and structure with the Laws of Hammurabi. These influences serve to reinforce the conclusion that the Book of Exodus originated in the exiled Jewish community of 6th-century Babylon, but not all the sources are Mesopotamian: the story of Moses's flight to Midian following the murder of the Egyptian overseer may draw on the Egyptian Story of Sinuhe " https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Exodus It is overwhelmingly evident enough that the exodus story served a theological and traditional purpose to the jews rather than a historical one. Thr torah itself was not written by one person as against the jewish theological tradition that holds moses as the author. Even genesis shows to have 4 different styles of writting and has led to the conclusion that it probably was penned down by 4 distinct authors at different timelines. Personally i do not hold the exodus story to be historical in the least just like i also doubt the historicity of Homer's Odyssey.. [/b] 5 Likes 3 Shares |
Re: Is The Biblical Exodus Historical ? by FOLYKAZE(m): 12:40am On Nov 04, 2015 |
Pr0ton: The silly spambot banned me yesternight. I will check back tomorrow morning |
Re: Is The Biblical Exodus Historical ? by FOLYKAZE(m): 10:45am On Nov 04, 2015 |
Pr0ton: I assume you want to write a new story for the Yoruba people. They have carefully choose a word a describe a character. The website which you are relying on does not tell us what Atewonro is. It only tells you about the alleged event which have nothing to do with translation of Oduduwa title (Atewonro) to english. Oduduwa is fondly called Atewonro - one who came climbing down on an iron chain. There is a thread where I discussed about Oduduwa being atewonro and gives the meaning "climbing down on a chain" to the word. https://www.nairaland.com/1486568/plain-concept-eledumare-orisas-reality#18979787 Etymologically, Atewonro is a Yoruba word which has four syllable A + Te + Ewon + Ro. A = One Te = Step on or climb on or standing on. Ewon = Chain (This is a series of connected links numbering two or more which are typically made of metal) Ro = Fall, Descend or Climb down. Conclusively, Atewonro means one who came climbing down on an iron chain. What the shape of this chain looks like was not told. But we were told the chains remains connecting Aiye (the physical realm) to Orun (ancestral or spiritual realm). This tells that life began not just by natural force but inclusion of spiritual forces. However, codes were passed continiously between the two realm and extensively among lives on physical realm. This made us arrive at DNA. Pr0ton: What similarity does Cat and Dog has to do with Heavy downpour of rain? Does either dog or rain look like rain? And why do you think anything called Chain has to be only that object you have it picture above? What do you call this below? ![]() This is also ewon (Chain) in Yoruba. It is known popularly as Opele (divination chain). What about this ladder like chain of motor engine? ![]() Is this also a chain to you? Would you have agree he climbed down on something like this? And here is a chain that looks like DNA. It is what we use in making divination chain (Opele) ![]() What you say about this buddy? Dont you see enough how it look like DNA? |
Re: Is The Biblical Exodus Historical ? by FOLYKAZE(m): 12:17pm On Nov 04, 2015 |
Pr0ton: I still dont understand what you are trying to proof because you are ignorant and adamant which has lead to go relentless effort gathering wrong and false information on the internet. Obatala did not climb down on the said chain as the website postulated. Oduduwa is generally refered to as Atewonro meaning the one who climbed down on a chain. The site you ran to gives a very wrong info. Obatala did not climb on any Chain. Pr0ton: Pls stop discusing on something you dont know or familiar with. I asked you some questions which you have refused providing answer to. Do you understand Yoruba terminologies? Do you know or familiar with the story? Can you analyse the essence of this story? Maybe I should help you out. Oduduwa according to the story is not Human. It is an allegorical figure describing essence of behaviour and trait. You need to keep this in your mind. From the name Oduduwa when broken into sepearte syllabic meaning we have Odu ti o da Iwa meaning the womb which create behaviour or the Essense of Behaviour and Trait or reservoir of reality. In Yoruba spirituality, all entities has Iwa (Charater) and must keep their iwa in balance with others or there would be chaos. We believe Character is what makes a personality. Omoluabi is a Yoruba philosophical and cultural concept to describe a person of good character. Most Yorubas are called Omoluabi not because Oduduwa is the prognitor of the Yorubas but because we believe the (Oduduwa) essense of character is the father of our reality and Behavior or Trait. Historically, Oduduwa meet some people in Ife. So how can he be our progenitor? We are omo Oduduwa not because he is our father but because we are Omoluabi. We are born with character (good) which is reserved in Odu of Iwa. Now on how that relates to science with the Oduduwa chain. Behaviour have more to do with genetic. Imagine three babies. One is easygoing and quiet. Second is very demanding and vocal. Third is inquisitive and stuborn. Each already seems to have a unique personality. Why is this? The answer tells that genetic code have more to do with our personalities. Read this document pls http://www.hks.harvard.edu/dnabook/Gar%20Allen%20III.doc Behavioral Genetics is an entire field of study is dedicated to understanding the genetic components of personality. This study is aim to identity in DNA which component is responsible for our behaviour. Family study, twin stidy and adoption study has much to with parent and offspring. Between this two point, DNA convey the genetic code which serve as the essence of Character (Oduduwa). That environment factor of behaviour is the reason why we are concerned with Iwa-pele. I wont speak much on that. Pr0ton: You are the one that choose to see chain as that in picture you provided only. This is also a chain ![]() Pr0ton: Oduduwa is not human but essense of character. Science have proven over and over again that behaviour and trait has alot to do with genetic code. So the codes are been passed between ancestors and offspring through DNA. This is what Yoruba people meant in their allegorical story of Oduduwa climbing from ancestral realsm to physical plain. Pr0ton: My argument is that life started in the pool of water. I have read countless hypothetical document that shows that life started in water. And ruling on Yoruba creation story, life started in water. Carrine Blank, Ph.D., Washington University assistant professor of geomicrobiology in the Department of Earth & Planetary Sciences in Arts & Sciences, studying Cyanobacteria – bacteria that use light, water, and carbon dioxide to produce oxygen and biomass – has concluded that these species got their start on Earth in freshwater systems on continents and gradually evolved to exist in brackish water environments, then higher salt ones, marine and hyper saline (salt crust) environments. |
Re: Is The Biblical Exodus Historical ? by Mcslize: 12:29am On Nov 13, 2015 |
FOLYKAZE: Hello, come to my rescue. Saw one of the thread where u advised a guy of his Tab having a bad battery here http://nairaland.com/2225457/android-tablet-non-removable-battery-problem You bought a Tab frm aliexpress. I bought a tab from aliexpress too..just a 5months old Tab. Bought it May 20, 2015 and now the battery has gone bad. It shut down unexpectedly even when the battery isn't yet drained. Some times it shuts down when the battery is 60% , 70% sometimes 99%. Seeing ur advise in the above link make me have a rethink of changing the battery. It is an inbuilt battery ..can I see a good engineer to change it? When u changed ur , how many hour does the new battery last u? |
Re: Is The Biblical Exodus Historical ? by dalaman: 5:07am On Nov 13, 2015 |
The exodus as narrated in the bible is non historical. The bible refused to state the name of the Egyptian Pharoah which is the hallmark of all mythological writing. |
Re: Is The Biblical Exodus Historical ? by FOLYKAZE(m): 7:04am On Nov 13, 2015 |
Mcslize: First of all you will need to open the tab and see for yurself if the battery have gone bad.you can use a table knife and or give it to engineer to help you with opening it. Cut the battery out safely. If the battery has gotten damaged, try check the size, breath, width and length. Use a ruler for this. And dont forget the mAh capacity. It is written on the tab description. Then order for a new battery on Aliexpress. They have large number of it available for sales. It shouldnt cost more that 2000. They also sell the battery in Alaba but I dont know the price. Make sure you order and buy same size with what you have. When you get your hand on the new battery, engineer will help fix it into the tab. Engineer no fit collect pass 200 for all this fixing. Charge the new battery till it full. It would serve you like when your tablet was new. I hope this help. |
Re: Is The Biblical Exodus Historical ? by Mcslize: 1:17pm On Nov 13, 2015 |
FOLYKAZE: Thanks so much. I appreciate. |
Re: Is The Biblical Exodus Historical ? by Mcslize: 2:34pm On Nov 13, 2015 |
FOLYKAZE: My Tab Battery is 3800maH. Will it be advisable or wrong for me to go for a Battery of 4000maH for replacement? |
Re: Is The Biblical Exodus Historical ? by FOLYKAZE(m): 3:09pm On Nov 13, 2015 |
Mcslize: You can get 4000mAh but be assured of the size. |
Re: Is The Biblical Exodus Historical ? by Mcslize: 6:28pm On Nov 13, 2015 |
FOLYKAZE: Thank u alot. I already took the Tab to a Tab repairer & told him abt d battery shutting down even wen fully charged. He loosed the tab & found out dat it is swollen up. So I told him dat am gona buy a battery of d same capacity. But he said he already hav a follow come battery of 3000maH. But my tab battery is 3800maH. The voltage in both are the same 3.7V. So he said what matters is d voltage nt the maH. That as long as d voltage on both are 3.7v, it will work fine. That but if I still choose to go 4 a new battery, they sell around he promised me dat it will never be like d folo come he wants to fix in for me. So d choice is mine. That d new ones they sell are nt as gud as d folo come. So he charged me 2k for d folo come he wants to fix for me. And also told me if I need a new one they do sell around N2500 bt it wil nt be as gud as d one he wants to fix for me. What do u think? Is d guy being genuine wit me abt the battery? What bothers me is that he said what matters is d voltage which is 3.7V on my condemn battery and d one he wants to fix for me. The voltage is d same bt his own folo come battery he is selling for me N2000 is 3000maH. S should I buy a new one or permit him to fix in the one he has? My condemn battery size is 35*70*100 i.e 3.5mm thick 70mm long and 100mm wide....while his is 3.3mm thick 70mm long and 95mm wide. I need ur advise whether to allow him fix that 3000maH wit a voltage of 3.7v or look for one of 3800maH of d same voltage. |
Re: Is The Biblical Exodus Historical ? by FOLYKAZE(m): 8:02pm On Nov 13, 2015 |
Mcslize: If you trust me. You can buy the battery from him. But if I were the one in your situation, I will buy a new battery for myself. I believe I can get a better price and quality product for myself. The talk of voltage matter is pure lie. You can travel to Lagos or send someone who is going there to help you get a new battety. |
Re: Is The Biblical Exodus Historical ? by Mcslize: 11:05pm On Nov 13, 2015 |
FOLYKAZE: All right. Thanks for ur assistance. I appreciate |
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