The problems of many atheists happens to be the problem of many Christians. They are bad listeners and observers.

If atheists start getting more open to information and start trying, for example, to VERIFY claims of miracles by Christians instead of being hasty to conclude "It's all gimmicks," or "It's impossible," many of them will change their minds.

Also, if Christians start listening more to WHY atheists THINK there is no God before concluding that they are all unreasonable and irresponsible people who are running away from being accountable to God, Christians will be able to help those of them that are hurting and they will grow better in their knowledge of God because they will be challenged to search for answers from God and the scriptures- things they had previously not thought about. That will draw both groups closer to God.

The scientific world is too slow in solving global problems today because for many scientists, God is out of their equation of discovery.

http://house-era.com/index.php?topic=29.msg29#msg29

So if both listen, the atheists will change their minds and the Christians will be able to help the atheists (as opposed to changing their minds)?

Guy, you haven't been listening!

The point is, the ignorance is much. The ignorance on display here is something else. Few grow intellectually but the majority here I pity. There's a default answer to every question and thinking outside has become illogical.

Both are scared. The theist wants to believe that every thing about his God is true and even questioning or trying to rationalize them evil. The atheist too doesn't want his natural operational mechanism of our system to be violated. Only few are interested in learning here.

jayriginal:
So if both listen, the atheists will change their minds and the Christians will be able to help the atheists (as opposed to changing their minds)?

Guy, you haven't been listening!

You comment seems like a proof of what I'm trying to say. It is taking things from the superficial.

For example, the "help" is related to those "atheists" who thought God would have prevented a rough situation in their lives if He is real-- in other words are hurting and hold God responsible for everything that happens.

Please read properly before commenting

PMIcon:


You comment seems like a proof of what I'm trying to say. It is taking things from the superficial.

For example, the "help" is related to those "atheists" who thought God would have prevented a rough situation in their lives if He is real-- in other words are hurting and hold God responsible for everything that happens.

Please read properly before commenting

Whereas the atheist would do a 180 degree turn if he listens, the christian would be able to help him do a 180 degree (as opposed to doing a 180 degree turn himself).

Please reason properly before posting. Oh and listen. Take some of your own medicine.

jayriginal:


Whereas the atheist would do a 180 degree turn if he listens, the christian would be able to help him do a 180 degree (as opposed to doing a 180 degree turn himself).

Please reason properly before posting. Oh and listen. Take some of your own medicine.

I think he's only raising some questions and you are trying to appear in it.

PMIcon:

I think I should just add the following since you probably will miss the point.

Anyone who believes in God and turns away is not an atheist. You can call them rebels or whatever but not atheists. An example is Job in the old testament. He was hurt, he turned away and even cursed but was he an atheist? NO.

Hope you're not going to be predictable and tell me how you put the word in quotes because I've already addressed that with the second paragraph.

Reyginus:
I think he's only raising some questions and you are trying to appear in it.

He's asking both sides to listen so that one can help the other change his mind. He's assuming one side is correct. I leave you to guess which side.

In short he is saying, let's listen to each other so we can help you accept our point of view. How does that sound to you?

jayriginal:


He's asking both sides to listen so that one can help the other change his mind. He's assuming one side is correct. I leave you to guess which side.

In short he is saying, let's listen to each other so we can help you accept our point of view. How does that sound to you?

What I read was on understanding a thing before dismissing it. I think that works both ways. What's wrong with it?

Reyginus:
What I read was on understanding a thing before dismissing it. I think that works both ways. What's wrong with it?

The aim of the understanding is one sided. That's the point.

Let's listen to each other so you can accept my view point. Doesn't that sound hypocritical to you?

jayriginal:


The aim of the understanding is one sided. That's the point.

Let's listen to each other so you can accept my view point. Doesn't that sound hypocritical to you?

Wrong choice of words, I think. I have thought in same lines too so I think I understand him. Let's wait for him to explain.

I'm with jayriginal on this one. OP is basically saying that atheists and theists should listen to each other so that the theists can win the atheists over. So while the advice is sound, the purpose comes off as condescending.

CoolUsername:
I'm with jayriginal on this one. OP is basically saying that atheists and theists should listen to each other so that the theists can win the atheists over. So while the advice is sound, the purpose comes off as condescending.

Exactly.

CoolUsername:
I'm with jayriginal on this one. OP is basically saying that atheists and theists should listen to each other so that the theists can win the atheists over. So while the advice is sound, the purpose comes off as condescending.

Seconded

PMIcon:
The problems of many atheists happens to be the problem of many Christians. They are bad listeners and observers.

If atheists start getting more open to information and start trying, for example, to VERIFY claims of miracles by Christians instead of being hasty to conclude "It's all gimmicks," or "It's impossible," many of them will change their minds.

Also, if Christians start listening more to WHY atheists THINK there is no God before concluding that they are all unreasonable and irresponsible people who are running away from being accountable to God, Christians will be able to help those of them that are hurting and they will grow better in their knowledge of God because they will be challenged to search for answers from God and the scriptures- things they had previously not thought about. That will draw both groups closer to God.

The scientific world is too slow in solving global problems today because for many scientists, God is out of their equation of discovery.

http://house-era.com/index.php?topic=29.msg29#msg29

OP saying if atheist listens to stories of miracles,they would be converted is anonymous to me saying if you watch a magic show in las Vegas,you would believe magic is real...a very faulty assumption

Reyginus:
The point is, the ignorance is much. The ignorance on display here is something else. Few grow intellectually but the majority here I pity. There's a default answer to every question and thinking outside has become illogical.

Both are scared. The theist wants to believe that every thing about his God is true and even questioning or trying to rationalize them evil. The atheist too doesn't want his natural operational mechanism of our system to be violated. Only few are interested in learning here.

Gosh!
What couldvpeople who don't believe in god, miracles, devils, demons and magic ever be scared of ?

The problem with you folks, no matter how many times it is defined and explained to you all, remains the same.

You still think that atheism is a competing belief system, a philosophy.
Pity.

No atheist comes to NL to try to compete with any religious philosophy.

Let me repeat for the millionth and one time .
Atheists come here to MOCK and DEGRADE the silly , irrational and lethal mythologies ,..lethal mythologies that have DEGRADING the mental and productive potential of the African people for the past 200yrs or so.

Pls sir Reginus, do not ever delude yourself that atheists come to compare and debate side by side the differences between the atheist and faith-based worldviews.

Nigeria is the best ever proof that the idea of god is not only primitive, wrong, fraudulent, but also mentally debilitating and harmful to the moral, social and intellectual cohesiveness of society.

We only need to take a brief look at European history to learn everything we need to know about religion and the many myths of faith.

Reyginus:
What I read was on understanding a thing before dismissing it. I think that works both ways. What's wrong with it?

C'mon. We had 10'000 recorded years of religion and faith.
What else exactly do we still not understand about religion and faith?

We understand religion and faith from a historical, anthropological, social, political, economic , PSYCHOLOGICAL, and from even a BIOCHEMICAL point of view.

And from all of the above, the verdict is in.

Just ask the Europeans, The Americans ,the Canadians and the Australians why they DO NOT stuff the Brains of their school age children with that ever so wonderful bible stories that we mentally indolent Africans are sooo gung ho for.

Super Biased thread! Dead on arrival!

plaetton:


C'mon. We had 10'000 recorded years of religion and faith.
What else exactly do we still not understand about religion and faith?

We understand religion and faith from a historical, anthropological, social, political, economic , PSYCHOLOGICAL, and from even a BIOCHEMICAL point of view.

And from all of the above, the verdict is in.

Just ask the Europeans, The Americans ,the Canadians and the Australians why they DO NOT stuff the Brains of their school age children with that ever so wonderful bible stories that we mentally indolent Africans are sooo gung ho for.

Lol. In that 10000 years has anyone successfully proved any religion wrong?

Reyginus:
Lol. In that 10000 years has anyone successfully proved any religion wrong?

Did you say Wrong?

plaetton:


Gosh!
What couldvpeople who don't believe in god, miracles, devils, demons and magic ever be scared of ?

The problem with you folks, no matter how many times it is defined and explained to you all, remains the same.

You still think that atheism is a competing belief system, a philosophy.
Pity.

No atheist comes to NL to try to compete with any religious philosophy.

Let me repeat for the millionth and one time .
Atheists come here to MOCK and DEGRADE the silly , irrational and lethal mythologies ,..lethal mythologies that have DEGRADING the mental and productive potential of the African people for the past 200yrs or so.

Pls sir Reginus, do not ever delude yourself that atheists come to compare and debate side by side the differences between the atheist and faith-based worldviews.

Nigeria is the best ever proof that the idea of god is not only primitive, wrong, fraudulent, but also mentally debilitating and harmful to the moral, social and intellectual cohesiveness of society.

We only need to take a brief look at European history to learn everything we need to know about religion and the many myths of faith.

You are displaying that ignorance I am talking about here. How many claimed miracles have you tried looking at or reasoned? Are you not in this country? We've heard of the efficacy of charms. I've personally seen the efficacy of it when two people are fighting.

The thing is, I don't know what's happening in those scenes. One of my family friend claims he stepped on charms and today he limps. I've seen a man stabbed with Knives over and over again and nothing happens. I don't understand what's happening there but then coming to tell me that it's all bullshit because Europeans think it is is not an answer from a logical mind.

plaetton:


Did you say Wrong?

Yes. The problem with a lot of you is that you don't know that criticism comes from understanding. I've learnt that and will dismiss a thing after I understand it. What about you? Why do you dismiss anything?

Reyginus:
You are displaying that ignorance I am talking about here. How many claimed miracles have you tried looking at or reasoned? Are you not in this country? We've heard of the efficacy of charms. I've personally seen the efficacy of it when two people are fighting.

The thing is, I don't know what's happening in those scenes. One of my family friend claims he stepped on charms and today he limps. I've seen a man stabbed with Knives over and over again and nothing happens. I don't understand what's happening there but then coming to tell me that it's all bullshit because Europeans think it is is not an answer from a logical mind.

This is my point. This is why I need, we need to double our efforts to Degrade lethal mythologies.

Look at you, sir Reginus, talking to me about miracles ?

Why are African minds beholden to the silly, the silliest of all human endeavors?

Relax and think a bit.

I have witnessed and so has the whole world, of the miracle of medical surgeries that repair or replace damaged organs.

I have witnessed a surgical procedure in an unborn foetus, flatlined patients resuscited back to life by medical instruments.

We have all seen how teams of HUMAN engineers sent a lone probe across billions of miles into deep space to send back information back to earth.

Let me ask you, sir Reginus, can you shoot an arrow from your village all the way to Australia, and have the arrow hit the exact bullseye? Can you?
That would be a great miracle, right ?

Well, science has been doing that miracle for quite some time, in case people like do not notice.
That is type of true miracle that fascinates me, should fascinate any thinking human.

My grandmother still praises cell phones and Skype as the greatest miracle she has witnessed in her 90+ years.

The universe is full of miracles, anywhere we look .

Why are our brains only capable of absorbing and assimilating the stuuuuupid, the ones that require no thoughts, no reasoning ?

PMIcon:
The problems of many atheists happens to be the problem of many Christians. They are bad listeners and observers.

If atheists start getting more open to information and start trying, for example, to VERIFY claims of miracles by Christians instead of being hasty to conclude "It's all gimmicks," or "It's impossible," many of them will change their minds.

Also, if Christians start listening more to WHY atheists THINK there is no God before concluding that they are all unreasonable and irresponsible people who are running away from being accountable to God, Christians will be able to help those of them that are hurting and they will grow better in their knowledge of God because they will be challenged to search for answers from God and the scriptures- things they had previously not thought about. That will draw both groups closer to God.

The scientific world is too slow in solving global problems today because for many scientists, God is out of their equation of discovery.

http://house-era.com/index.php?topic=29.msg29#msg29

you KNOW this is a ridiculous statement, right?

also, atheists immediately claim "hoax" whenever they see "miracles" because they violate the laws of nature. if you watched a video where person was floating in midair, you should already know he is faking it. gravity doesn't do partiality. neither does electromagnetism. so we shout hoax because they are bullshyte thought up by clever people to deceive less clever and more ignorant people into thinking they have some supernatural power.

and EVERY TIME, atheists have been proved right. no "miracle" has survived the test of scientism. they are all hoaxes.

Reyginus:
Yes. The problem with a lot of you is that you don't know that criticism comes from understanding. I've learnt that and will dismiss a thing after I understand it. What about you? Why do you dismiss anything?

what . . .
you want to seriously tell me that you only dismiss a thing after you understand it? dude, there are over five thousand religions on earth, you want to tell me that you took the time to study all of them before knowing which to pick? do you know how hinduism works? then why did you dismiss it?
why do you dismiss gay people? do you understand how they feel? do you know if they are actually born with that stuff like they claim? then WHY do you dismiss them?

Reyginus:
You are displaying that ignorance I am talking about here. How many claimed miracles have you tried looking at or reasoned? Are you not in this country? We've heard of the efficacy of charms. I've personally seen the efficacy of it when two people are fighting.

The thing is, I don't know what's happening in those scenes. One of my family friend claims he stepped on charms and today he limps. I've seen a man stabbed with Knives over and over again and nothing happens. I don't understand what's happening there but then coming to tell me that it's all bullshit because Europeans think it is is not an answer from a logical mind.

Charms can't be effective, for example, if they don't help you win a war, or defend your territory.

Charms can't be effective if they do not inoculate you from deadly diseases, or cure you of debilitating illnesses.

Charms can't be effective if it doesn't greatly improve your crop yield, so that you and your family have food security.

Now, there is a discipline that can do all of the above.

It's called science.

Have you heard of it?

I hope you get my drift.

plaetton:


This is my point. This is why I need, we need to double our efforts to Degrade lethal mythologies.

Look at you, sir Reginus, talking to me about miracles ?

Why are African minds beholden to the silly, the silliest of all human endeavors?

Relax and think a bit.

I have witnessed and so has the whole world, of the miracle of medical surgeries that repair or replace damaged organs.

I have witnessed a surgical procedure in an unborn foetus, flatlined patients resuscited back to life by medical instruments.

We have all seen how teams of HUMAN engineers sent a lone probe across billions of miles into deep space to send back information back to earth.

Let me ask you, sir Reginus, can you shoot an arrow from your village all the way to Australia, and have the arrow hit the exact bullseye? Can you?
That would be a great miracle, right ?

Well, science has been doing that miracle for quite some time, in case people like do not notice.
That is type of true miracle that fascinates me, should fascinate any thinking human.

My grandmother still praises cell phones and Skype as the greatest miracle she has witnessed in her 90+ years.

The universe is full of miracles, anywhere we look .

Why are our brains only capable of absorbing and assimilating the stuuuuupid, the ones that require no thoughts, no reasoning ?

I'm sorry to say this but I think you are not making sense. I'm telling you the things I witnessed and you about how silly the African mind is and smart phones. How ignorant.

So is there any explanation for this? You are not trying to explain it as some form of science or trick but dismissing it without making any reasonable point. What then is ignorance? We've heard of people who got their money by shedding human blood.

In Mandala, Niger State, about five years ago a man narrated his ordeal on human parts after he was caught with dead bodies in the gully he takes for a home. Do we call this madness? As i, he claims to sell it to ritualist who use it for money rituals. Is he deluded? If he is, are they: his buyers?

This is where I have problem with you. How can you just dismiss it like that even without detailing how. I think you are not ready to learn. Your myopic show of absolute knowledge here is a pity.

plaetton:


Charms can't be effective, for example, if they don't help you win a war, or defend your territory.

Charms can't be effective if they do not inoculate you from deadly diseases, or cure you of debilitating illnesses.

Charms can't be effective if it doesn't greatly improve your crop yield, so that you and your family have food security.

Now, there is a discipline that can do all of the above.

It's called science.

Have you heard of it?

I hope you get my drift.

Pointless. How does this explain why they seem to work in the areas they have? Or is it that I didn't see clearly or we are all stupid and ignorant.

plaetton:


Charms can't be effective, for example, if they don't help you win a war, or defend your territory.

Charms can't be effective if they do not inoculate you from deadly diseases, or cure you of debilitating illnesses.

Charms can't be effective if it doesn't greatly improve your crop yield, so that you and your family have food security.

Now, there is a discipline that can do all of the above.


It's called science.

Have you heard of it?

I hope you get my drift.

all of the above?

Teempakguy:
what . . .
you want to seriously tell me that you only dismiss a thing after you understand it? dude, there are over five thousand religions on earth, you want to tell me that you took the time to study all of them before knowing which to pick? do you know how hinduism works? then why did you dismiss it?
why do you dismiss gay people? do you understand how they feel? do you know if they are actually born with that stuff like they claim? then WHY do you dismiss them?

Yeah. I know understanding all won't be easy but I then I also know that calling all of them stupid without understanding them is worse. Judgement comes from knowledge of the thing and it's antagonist. Why do you think I dismiss Hinduism? Why do you think I dismiss gay?

Teempakguy, how do you see people who criticise you even when they don't understand you? Are they smart?

An0nimus:
all of the above?

Pardon him I know where that's coming from.

Reyginus:
Know. I know understanding all won't be easy but I then I also know that calling all of them stupid without understanding them is worse. Judgement comes from knowledge of the thing and it's antagonist. Why do you think I dismiss Hinduism? Why do you think I dismiss gay?

well a christian cannot be an hinduism follower, neither can he be a gay supporter.

anyway, atheists do not do the bolded. in fact, they do the exact opposite. I'm sure you know many atheists are well versed in the bible. they actually understand what is going on here. it IS fantasy! you can only come to the realization of that when you actually take time to study these religions.