d problem is the law dat established polytechnic education made it equivalent to 3rd class of Bsc, datz why u require pgd to equate. to stop this discrimination, legislature are required to repill the existing law and enact new one as seen in london where polytechnic education was borrowed. in london polytechnic sector as of now, proffessors lecture there in contrary to chief lecturer in nigeria. again, over there, they offer msc, phd etc as obtained in university unlike polytecnic here in nigeria. is very unfuntunate and highly demorarising espcially to those who are still under poly education. nigeria govt shld live above board by towing d way of England and change all these anamoly afterall d issue of poly was borrowrd frm there.

What will happen to Nigerian graduates if she'll, Agip and other oil companies leave Nigeria? No plan b?

Guy sorry about that I have been trying to apply with my bb is not going pls help me out

.B. Sc is B. Sc, HND is HND. HND is Higher National Diploma. The word Diploma is underscored. Can anyone here compare Diploma to Bachelors?

JAMB cut off is higher than poly JAMB. Number of credits to enter University is higher than Polytechnic. Even if u like, spend 20yrs studyin in a polytechnic, it can't be a bachelors degree. Most people end up in polytechnic cos they could not meet University cut-off. The sour truth u guys can't face is that you are all Diploma students. Rewrite JAMB and go to a university and stop whining.

(the fact that u have been sellin panadol in a kiosk/shop for a long time, does not make u a doctor: Nebuchadnezzar 1759BC)

The point is even that, what is prevalent in Nigeria's educational system is 'at all at all na im bad pass'. That is the situation of majority Nigerian youths must get some form of academic at any rate, at any level, anywhere because that is the craze of the society where they found themselves. How many people who graduated from the Polytechnic or Colleges of Education went there because it was their desire or first choice? Even those who graduate from the Universities with degrees in courses like History, Philosophy, Yoruba, and other like that.

All of una so wey dey form BSc , how many of una do write Oil company test b4? Ogbeni sharapi joo.

dipopooo:
The issue of Bsc & HND is settled. For gudness sake Bsc is d baba. E easy to go university? Ogbeni, stop complaining go obtain DE form.

in 2009 i wrote pume in uniben, i beat cut off mark as a commercial student but i wasnt picked, my friend whom we wrote together didnt even pass pume with a jamb score of 201 yet hr got admitted in computer science. why? cos his dad could afford 80k for runs.

that same year i got into the poly, during the nd1 i wrote jamb again and post ume in illorin, got good grade but still got rejected, had a friend whom i beat in jamb and pume but he gor admitted cos his uncle was working in the school.

now you see why i always wonder when you discriminate? cos if it were on merit i wouldn't be complaining.

my last born got admitted last year into uniben and she didnt even pass pume. just cos my dad could afford the 80k cos she's the last born. i guess she too now becomes more educated and higher than those who could not rubs their way through.


its foolish of someone to discriminate in this bad educational system

OP. Don't come here and say what you don't know because you wanna tarnish the image of an IOC. Does KPMG not discriminate against having a minimum of 6 C's in WAEC @ 1 sitting? Who complains? Some organisations also need 2:2 in lecturing. PTI that pays same with NNPC recruited ND and HND Holders this year, where were you? Why didn't you shout "discrimination"? Na because say this one na SHELL na im you wan kill yourself put. Some IOCs in Nigeria take ND and HND holders and you know this.
Besides, someone who has a HND applied to shell and has passed 2 of the online assessments. So, you were dropped is not because you have a HND. Others with first class and 2:1 were dropped also. You don't know the criteria the HR folks are using so, just zip it.

ifeness:
What will happen to Nigerian graduates if she'll, Agip and other oil companies leave Nigeria? No plan b?

Their day dreaming will end.

The appalling part of this dichotomy is that many of you knew what was on ground before opting for HND after ND, majority of you were even advised against it but you were just too arrogant to see what was ahead of you.


I sympathize with you sha.

walemadu:
even for your english u deserve to not be employed. be greatful and anticipate the best

Is that how to spell 'GRATEFUL" . SMH.

Lincoln275:
iranu

Abachaa

As a product of both, I think all institutions should allow a leveled play ground for graduates from both institutions to prove themselves. Some universities that I have seen are worse than some polytechnics. Apologies to my fellow University graduates.

it is very very painful.

I can't imagine that happening to me as a HND holder In computer science from a respected Polytechnic



God have mercy.. This is one of the reason we need Biafra Republic

dipopooo:
The issue of Bsc & HND is settled. For gudness sake Bsc is d baba. E easy to go university? Ogbeni, stop complaining go obtain DE form.

What have you achieved with B.sc?

so those with OND will fall into the category of school cert! our educational system and NUC need to be reformed.

Laburus:
If you don't have Problem in accepting America is better than Nigeria then what is difficult in admitting BSc/BA/LLB/BEng/MBBS/DVM etc is not and will never be equal to Diploma of any Grade.

You spend 2 years get a Diploma then go and spend some 2 years again get another Diploma then get Mad at some dude who spend 4 or 5 or 6 years at a stretch 9-10 months in each year because you are not treated equally? common be realistic Man. ND OR HND is still diploma and will remain so. if you have 2 diplomas or 3 or 4 diplomas you are as good as a 200L student.



No offence though I sympathise with you on the Fair discrimination by Shell.

You called it Diploma!
Have u seen their syllabus?
Have you compare it with that of Bsc?
Any difference?

Don't because of you were privileged to be a university (graduate or under) feel it's superior. I Have attended written interviews along side Bsc grads and I have them as friends i see no difference.

Have sympathy for yourself and those HND graduates in your family and neighborhoods. No person in right frame of mind will compare HND graduate to 200L uni student.
Go for mental test, you need it then thank me later

its not all about ur degree its all about intelligence and favour of God, i know of a brother who got an employment with total PLC with National diploma in chemical engineering today he is a millionaire that everyone in his family are looking up to including those ones with bsc....God's favour is d key

Eyah it's really not nice, Nigeria needs urgent help on this issue.


Especially in Nigeria, this menace should be curbed as discrimination seems to be the order of the day.

kevoh:

Their day dreaming will end.

They need to be self sufficient,be creative enough to create jobs within themselves. I wonder if their are recruitment firms and agencies in Nigeria. Some graduate should make deal with the government like road maintenance ,sewage management etc are possible job opportunities I reckon. Everyone don't need to wear a tie and shirt. Its all about the money.

The unemployment is looping in Both the HND and the Bsc holder's camp. So where is the discrimination. The stuff you are made of matters not paper qualification my dear. I have met HND holders that are very good and sound intellectually. Please I beg those HND holders pride yourselves and stop crying discrimination. If A company does not accept you B will. #OnlyGoddeterminesamanssuccess! Not papers

januzaj:
Mr bsc...it is grateful not greatful ....your english sef na die.....

Don't quote him it sms post not English class lol

baminasri:
Right now, I find it very hard to call myself a Nigerian. What is the point of pledging loyalty to a country that cares not for the HND graduates?

As an HND holder, I graduated with distinction (Top of my class)from the top polytechnic in Nigeria. With high hopes, I applied for the ongoing shell graduate recruitment. The recruitment process involves an online registration and series of online aptitude tests prior to oral interview. What broke my heart during the registration was when I saw the column fo where to indicate your class of degree. First option was first class. Second was second class upper. Third was second class lower and the fourth was third class/HND.
This means that irrespective of your grade in the polytechnic, shell sees you as a third class graduate.
Well, I have moved on. Better things ahead. My advice to HND holders is to embrace entrepreneurship. That way, we can gain respect in the society. And for the country called Nigeria that have refused to stop this BSc/HND dichtonomy, what out for HND holders who will shape the economy soon!!!

bros no offense but read this;

This article is my opinion on reasona why Bsc is Superior to HND

Success in life should not be determined by our alma mater. I believe that everybody has a chance to be successful whether they went to a university or polytechnic. Our success is in our hands. This write-up is not meant to degrade HND holders. I am one of those that are strongly against the discrimination against HND holders. However, the reality on ground (due to the discrimination) is that BSc is still more superior to HND and I have given reasons below to state the obvious but bitter truth.

1 Entrance Qualification – The entrance qualification to the university is more stringent than that to the polytechnic. The UTME cut off for universities is higher than that of polytechnics. All universities require a minimum of 5 credits in WASSCE/NECO while most polytechnics accept 4 credits as minimum requirement. It is well accepted that the entrance qualification to any institution says a lot about the prestige attached to such institution.

2 Quality of Lecturers– You cannot compare the quality of lecturers in the university to that of the polytechnic. Most university lecturers are professors and PhD holders with decades of teaching and research experience to show for it. Some of them are universally renowned professors. The head of universities are always renowned and experienced academic professors. Most Master degree holders in universities are mere assistant lecturers. The same cannot be said of polytechnics where most of their ‘experienced’ lecturers are mere BSc holders. Most rectors of polytechnics are Msc holders, only a few have PhD. Even corps members lecture polytechnic students. Has it ever occurred to you why polytechnics find it hard to employ even their own products (HND holders) to lecture? Instead, they employ mostly university grads to teach.

3 Research Work– University is the bedrock of research work. Research work lays the foundation of advancement and any sane society will rate any higher institution by the quality of their research. Unfortunately, the quality of research work in Nigerian universities is poor but this is still far better than that of polytechnics that do absolutely nothing (or very negligible research work).

4 Funding– Universities are much more funded than polytechnics. One of the metrics for determining the quality of an institution is the level of funding. No wonder, the government and the media pay more attention to the demand of ASUU over ASUP. Thus, you will expect a product of a university to be better trained than that of a polytechnic.

5 Quality of students – The brightest, youngest and most motivated students go to the universities. Go to a polytechnic and what you will see a lot of dejected, not-so-young students who have written UTME many times but have not succeeded. A few in the polytechnics are young and bright, but they are few and far between. The majority of young and bright students, just fresh from secondary school are found within the 4 walls of the university. Thus, most university grads are of higher intellectual quality than their poly counterparts.

6 Size and Beauty of Campus – A lot can be said about the quality of an institution by the architectural structures of the institutions. Let’s take the elite universities and polytechnics in Nigeria for instance. One cannot compare the architectural edifices in the prestigious OAU, UI, ABU, UNN, UNILAG, UNIBEN to that of Yabatech, Kadpoly, Auchi, Bida Poly or any polytechnic in Nigeria. No polytechnic in Nigeria can even compete with some 2nd and 3rd generation universities like FUT Minna, UniJos, FUTA, etc in terms of structures.

7 Preference / Demand – The preference for BSc is higher than for OND/HND. All or almost all aspiring students wish to go to the university. Employers generally prefer BSc holders over HND holders. HND holders are seen as middle level manpower (That was the intent when polytechnics were initially created). There are more opportunities for BSc holders not just within the country but outside Nigeria. Jobs and scholarship opportunities abound for BSc holders and undergraduates while it is almost non-existent for HND holders.

8 Self Esteem – Last but not the least, an average BSc holder is more confident than an average HND holder. This is however not the fault of HND holders who unfortunately have to face stiff discrimination in the labour market, thus negatively impacting on their self esteem.

fratermathy:
This is getting too old and stale.

While I do not support totally embarrassing HND graduates and denying them of promotions, appointments and a chance to make a successful career, it should be noted that HND and B.Sc/B.A/B.Agric/B.Tech/LL.B/B.Fisheries are different and the dichotomy must be emphasised.
HND is a technical diploma. It is technically not even a Degree but a National Diploma. B.Sc and its other appellations are the recognised standard for academic, theoretical and career based jobs and appointments. That is not to say HND cannot be used. It is just that HND is better off for handy middle-levelled and technical jobs/careers. The whole essence of HND is to make sure that there are middle-levelled skilled people in the society that can be called upon and relied on for their technical expertise. University graduates are seen as having done a theoretical study with much intellectual rigour and are, thus, deemed to have a high intellectual acuity for certain professions and careers. This must be known and not relegated. No matter how much sentiments come in and no matter how much we try to equate these certifications, the sacrosanct fact is that they are not the same. As long as one is a "Diploma" and another is a "Degree", they can NEVER be treated equal and same.

On the issue of Shell equating HND with Third Class, I have iterated in the previous paragraph that HND is not seen as an intellectually inclined degree but rather as a technically inclined diploma. Having a Distinction in HND only proves that you have an excellent technical expertise, perhaps even beyond that of University Degree holders. However, this does not translate into the fact that you are intellectually buoyant enough to stand a University First Class product. It doesn't add up. For one, our Nigerian Polytechnics operate a 4 points GPA system as opposed to the 5 Points used in our Nigerian varsities. Secondly, the units of courses taken in HND programmes are far lower, both individually and cumulatively, when compared with a University. Thirdly, the course contents in Polytechnics are peripheral and elementary as opposed to that of a University! Fourthly, the calibre of academic staff and their standing is much lower than that of a University. For one, a Polytechnic cannot have a Professorial Cadre! Polytechnics usually have substandard facilities and make-shift labs and instruments. All these come together to haunt the graduates of Nigerian Polytechnics!

The solution to all these bifurcations is easy. Polytechnics should be made to award a B.Tech rather than an "Ordinary" or "Higher" diploma. Polytechnic facilities should be overhauled and made to standards. The Professorial Cadre, alongside its competitive and cumbersome "floating" process, should be introduced to the Polytechnics. Polytechnics should employ the 5 or more Points GPA system and courses should be well developed, standard and carry higher units! In fact, the term Polytechnic should be hijacked from parlance and replaced with University of Technology or any other soothing appellation. We should always strive to follow the UK pattern in our technological pedagogical system.

Finally, on the issue of ostracization and stigmatization, I believe it is only Nigerian Legislative Bodies that can end this once and for all. As long as they are comfortable with it, nothing will change! Let's just stop flogging this issue and look forward to better things! This issue has been discussed, ignited and quenched severally since Nigerian employers' decisions to employ preferential treatments! It is time we either take drastic measures or simply let it go as we have always done.

#MyTake
I am sorry about your plight! Your best is yet to come. I'd advise you to get a PGD and possibly a Masters though.


CC:
Freemanan

This issue is as ancient as stone... And my opinion remains the same on it. While they might not be a difference in the product of these bodies, I strongly know that there is a difference is the processes of making the products.... If you get my metaphors.

fratermathy:
This is getting too old and stale.

While I do not support totally embarrassing HND graduates and denying them of promotions, appointments and a chance to make a successful career, it should be noted that HND and B.Sc/B.A/B.Agric/B.Tech/LL.B/B.Fisheries are different and the dichotomy must be emphasised.
HND is a technical diploma. It is technically not even a Degree but a National Diploma. B.Sc and its other appellations are the recognised standard for academic, theoretical and career based jobs and appointments. That is not to say HND cannot be used. It is just that HND is better off for handy middle-levelled and technical jobs/careers. The whole essence of HND is to make sure that there are middle-levelled skilled people in the society that can be called upon and relied on for their technical expertise. University graduates are seen as having done a theoretical study with much intellectual rigour and are, thus, deemed to have a high intellectual acuity for certain professions and careers. This must be known and not relegated. No matter how much sentiments come in and no matter how much we try to equate these certifications, the sacrosanct fact is that they are not the same. As long as one is a "Diploma" and another is a "Degree", they can NEVER be treated equal and same.

On the issue of Shell equating HND with Third Class, I have iterated in the previous paragraph that HND is not seen as an intellectually inclined degree but rather as a technically inclined diploma. Having a Distinction in HND only proves that you have an excellent technical expertise, perhaps even beyond that of University Degree holders. However, this does not translate into the fact that you are intellectually buoyant enough to stand a University First Class product. It doesn't add up. For one, our Nigerian Polytechnics operate a 4 points GPA system as opposed to the 5 Points used in our Nigerian varsities. Secondly, the units of courses taken in HND programmes are far lower, both individually and cumulatively, when compared with a University. Thirdly, the course contents in Polytechnics are peripheral and elementary as opposed to that of a University! Fourthly, the calibre of academic staff and their standing is much lower than that of a University. For one, a Polytechnic cannot have a Professorial Cadre! Polytechnics usually have substandard facilities and make-shift labs and instruments. All these come together to haunt the graduates of Nigerian Polytechnics!

The solution to all these bifurcations is easy. Polytechnics should be made to award a B.Tech rather than an "Ordinary" or "Higher" diploma. Polytechnic facilities should be overhauled and made to standards. The Professorial Cadre, alongside its competitive and cumbersome "floating" process, should be introduced to the Polytechnics. Polytechnics should employ the 5 or more Points GPA system and courses should be well developed, standard and carry higher units! In fact, the term Polytechnic should be hijacked from parlance and replaced with University of Technology or any other soothing appellation. We should always strive to follow the UK pattern in our technological pedagogical system.

Finally, on the issue of ostracization and stigmatization, I believe it is only Nigerian Legislative Bodies that can end this once and for all. As long as they are comfortable with it, nothing will change! Let's just stop flogging this issue and look forward to better things! This issue has been discussed, ignited and quenched severally since Nigerian employers' decisions to employ preferential treatments! It is time we either take drastic measures or simply let it go as we have always done.

#MyTake
Mr. Baminasri, I am sorry about your plight! Your best is yet to come. I'd advise you to get a PGD and possibly a Masters though.


CC:
Freemanan, Freeemanan, Goodboiy, Scholes0, LordAdam; What do you think?

For inside your mind, you have made a wonderful contribution? The more I read you the more I realised the true problem we have in Nigeria as per the said discriminations...

HA ! This is an insult to we 3rd Class holders. How can I be at par with common HND? Ehn? Even my electrician has HND.

baminasri:
Right now, I find it very hard to call myself a Nigerian. What is the point of pledging loyalty to a country that cares not for the HND graduates?

As an HND holder, I graduated with distinction (Top of my class)from the top polytechnic in Nigeria. With high hopes, I applied for the ongoing shell graduate recruitment. The recruitment process involves an online registration and series of online aptitude tests prior to oral interview. What broke my heart during the registration was when I saw the column fo where to indicate your class of degree. First option was first class. Second was second class upper. Third was second class lower and the fourth was third class/HND.
This means that irrespective of your grade in the polytechnic, shell sees you as a third class graduate.
Well, I have moved on. Better things ahead. My advice to HND holders is to embrace entrepreneurship. That way, we can gain respect in the society. And for the country called Nigeria that have refused to stop this BSc/HND dichtonomy, what out for HND holders who will shape the economy soon!!!

It was degree holders that was insulted here. How can shell equate HND with Degree. An excellent result coming from a polytechnic is lower than anything coming from a university. Even Education courses in the unuversity pass hnd

cheeketo:
that issue spoiled my whole day, i started the application today, and the process has been going on well until i get a regret message after i filled in my class, which is not available, so i picked the HND option. its so painful, cos i wasted my whole morning, wouldn't have bothered if i was told HND shouldn't apply.

It is grammar like this that causes the discrimination

dipopooo:
The issue of Bsc & HND is settled. For gudness sake Bsc is d baba. E easy to go university? Ogbeni, stop complaining go obtain DE form.

So what should happen to the polytechnics? Scrap everything?


You're also a part of the problem.

quote author=walemadu post=39875062]even for your english u deserve to not be employed. be greatful and anticipate the best [/quote][/b] mr bsc abeg correct ur grammar , see kettle calling pot black