Baboo13:



So what should happen to the polytechnics? Scrap everything?


You're also a part of the problem.

Polytechnic should be scrapped or reformed. I faced d same problem(discrimination) some years ago b4 I obtained DE to university.

wolesmile:
I know quite a number of HND holders that are far better than BSc holders...... in all ramifications!!!

And i know some S.S.C.E holders that are better than both.

LuckyLadolce:
What have you achieved with B.sc?

It has stopped me from discrimination

dipopooo:



Polytechnic should be scrapped or reformed. I faced d same problem(discrimination) some years ago b4 I obtained DE to university.

Better. It needs to be reformed

dipopooo:


For saying d truth? My papa is an !diot. Omoale jatijati

[email][/email]

Pls report them to Sen. Ben Bruce, STV has to show this

Owliver:
in 2009 i wrote pume in uniben, i beat cut off mark as a commercial student but i wasnt picked, my friend whom we wrote together didnt even pass pume with a jamb score of 201 yet hr got admitted in computer science. why? cos his dad could afford 80k for runs.

that same year i got into the poly, during the nd1 i wrote jamb again and post ume in illorin, got good grade but still got rejected, had a friend whom i beat in jamb and pume but he gor admitted cos his uncle was working in the school.

now you see why i always wonder when you discriminate? cos if it were on merit i wouldn't be complaining.

my last born got admitted last year into uniben and she didnt even pass pume. just cos my dad could afford the 80k cos she's the last born. i guess she too now becomes more educated and higher than those who could not rubs their way through.


its foolish of someone to discriminate in this bad educational system

Your epistle is baseless! Must you go to uniben? There are better universities in Nigeria & their admission is based on merit. E.g OAU, UI

Canberra55:
Animal pikin.

E pain am. Ur fada animal pikin

Do not be disheartened. To apply for master with hnd, one'll have to do a top up (pgd) so as to become equivalent with Bsc.

But what are the requirement for masters? Mininum of 2:1. Third class need to do a top up too just like hnd.

So you see why hnd is equated with third class. They, our govt too, believe that to further, you must do a top.

dipopooo:


It has stopped me from discrimination

Congrat. SMH

Complete truth with facts

adesbreath:



Pls shut up and stop talking nonsense.... I am proud to be an HND graduate...U can't even stand where most of us do.

Ode! I can never stand whre u stand bcoz our levels ar nt d same ok?

dipopooo:


Your epistle is baseless! Must you go to uniben? There are better universities in Nigeria & their admission is based on merit. E.g OAU, UI

baseless? are those schools you mentioned better than uniben and unilorin in terms of fair admission? stay clear if you have nothing better to say

fratermathy:
This is getting too old and stale.

While I do not support totally embarrassing HND graduates and denying them of promotions, appointments and a chance to make a successful career, it should be noted that HND and B.Sc/B.A/B.Agric/B.Tech/LL.B/B.Fisheries/MBBS/DVM are different and the dichotomy must be emphasised.
HND is a technical diploma. It is technically not even a Degree but a National Diploma. B.Sc and its other appellations are the recognised standard for academic, theoretical and career based jobs and appointments. That is not to say HND cannot be used. It is just that HND is better off for handy middle-levelled and technical jobs/careers. The whole essence of HND is to make sure that there are middle-levelled skilled people in the society that can be called upon and relied on for their technical expertise. University graduates are seen as having done a theoretical study with much intellectual rigour and are, thus, deemed to have a high intellectual acuity for certain professions and careers. This must be known and not relegated. No matter how much sentiments come in and no matter how much we try to equate these certifications, the sacrosanct fact is that they are not the same. As long as one is a "Diploma" and another is a "Degree", they can NEVER be treated equal and same.

On the issue of Shell equating HND with Third Class, I have iterated in the previous paragraph that HND is not seen as an intellectually inclined degree but rather as a technically inclined diploma. Having a Distinction in HND only proves that you have an excellent technical expertise, perhaps even beyond that of University Degree holders. However, this does not translate into the fact that you are intellectually buoyant enough to stand a University First Class product. It doesn't add up. For one, our Nigerian Polytechnics operate a 4 points GPA system as opposed to the 5 Points used in our Nigerian varsities. Secondly, the units of courses taken in HND programmes are far lower, both individually and cumulatively, when compared with a University. Thirdly, the course contents in Polytechnics are peripheral and elementary as opposed to that of a University! Fourthly, the calibre of academic staff and their standing is much lower than that of a University. For one, a Polytechnic cannot have a Professorial Cadre! Polytechnics usually have substandard facilities and make-shift labs and instruments. All these come together to haunt the graduates of Nigerian Polytechnics!

The solution to all these bifurcations is easy. Polytechnics should be made to award a B.Tech rather than an "Ordinary" or "Higher" diploma. Polytechnic facilities should be overhauled and made to standards. The Professorial Cadre, alongside its competitive and cumbersome "floating" process, should be introduced to the Polytechnics. Polytechnics should employ the 5 or more Points GPA system and courses should be well developed, standard and carry higher units! In fact, the term "Polytechnic" should be hijacked from parlance and replaced with University of Technology or any other soothing appellation. We should always strive to follow the UK pattern in our technological pedagogical system.

Finally, on the issue of ostracization and stigmatization, I believe it is only Nigerian Legislative Bodies that can end this once and for all. As long as they are comfortable with it, nothing will change! Let's just stop flogging this issue and look forward to better things! This issue has been discussed, ignited and quenched severally since Nigerian employers' decisions to employ preferential treatments! It is time we either take drastic measures or simply let it go as we have always done.

#MyTake
Mr. Baminasri, I am sorry about your plight! Your best is yet to come. I'd advise you to get a PGD and possibly a Masters though.


CC:
Freemanan, Freeemanan, Goodboiy, Scholes0, LordAdam; What do you think?

Fratermathy, hope you know that grade rating in Polytechnic is
higher than University. E.g 74 and half is not A in Polytechnic
while in university it's A. Even 64 and half is not B in Polytechnic
while in university it's B.
what would you say to this Sir? I love your write up it's
educating.
kindly comment, thanks.

bhmw:
I am an HND graduate in mechanical engineering. I got my first job with Access Bank PLC as a contract staff...had to resign because of the policy that states that a contract staff is not entitle to promotion and other benefits. The company is theirs' and they can do whatsoever they like with it...they can bring in any kind of policy. Making it in life is not based on the paper we called the certicate, it is from within. I know some of my readers can mention a host of people who aren't graduates but are employers of graduates. Our own Aliko Dangote only got a diploma from an institution in Cairo (Egypt), don't know if he has added to his certificates. If truely you are better than some graduates in some universities, then prove it. I graduated from Lagos State Polytechnic and I have slept in Unilag to take some students in a maths course. Being good is not by school but an individual ability. I left Access Bank in the year 2010 and my immediate boss does not want me to...but my mind was made up. She does not have the power to change the policy as she too was employee. I said to myself, if truely i am better than what i was offered, i need to prove it. After resigning, I wrote different aptitude tests in some oil companies(Saipem, NLNG, Cheveron, NNPC...I travelled to Abuja (NNPC Towers) for and interview in NNPC in 2010. Both the job and the transport fare did not get to me. I still believed that I will be great...at a point, I stopped searching for a job. I started searching for what I can do to make the world a better place. What can I do better than other? I have heard that when you offer value, people will offer you money. I began to read stories of people like Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Aliko Dangote, Mike Adenuga, Steve Jobs(late) and others. Do you know what made them become renowned? Ability to think for others (solving people's problem). I prayed to God to give what to do...He answered me indeed and gave me what to do. Today, I have published a unique book and designed a mathematics board game(not in the market yet)...I have a host of other products and unique services in mind. I need just 4 people who will be willing to team up with me as co-owners of this great organization about to be birthed. Interested person should be knowledgeable in maths (our policy not discrimination, each organization has one) and be a good speaker. Interested person(s) should whatsapp me on 08037686908. If the environment is not favourable, then create one. Don't let people judge you by your cerificate but by what you can offer...be creative and think entrepreneur.

create jobs and be an employer.

Owliver:
baseless? are those schools you mentioned better than uniben and unilorin in terms of fair admission? stay clear if you have nothing better to say

Far far better. I graduated from OAU so I knw wat am saying.

wirelex397:
Do not be disheartened. To apply for master with hnd, one'll have to do a top up (pgd) so as to become equivalent with Bsc.

But what are the requirement for masters? Mininum of 2:1. Third class need to do a top up too just like hnd.

So you see why hnd is equated with third class. They, our govt too, believe that to further, you must do a top.

That's not really true. HNDs distinction are acceptable to enroll for masters degree directly without PGD.

dipopooo:


Far far better. I graduated from OAU so I knw wat am saying.

my friend, if fairness is imbibed in all institutions admission process like its done abroad thats when your argument would hold groud. until then, enjoy your bsc. but stop the discrimination. but if you feel you are better than all poly student thats the headache of those who care. cheers

baminasri:
Right now, I find it very hard to call myself a Nigerian. What is the point of pledging loyalty to a country that cares not for the HND graduates?

As an HND holder, I graduated with distinction (Top of my class)from the top polytechnic in Nigeria. With high hopes, I applied for the ongoing shell graduate recruitment. The recruitment process involves an online registration and series of online aptitude tests prior to oral interview. What broke my heart during the registration was when I saw the column fo where to indicate your class of degree. First option was first class. Second was second class upper. Third was second class lower and the fourth was third class/HND.
This means that irrespective of your grade in the polytechnic, shell sees you as a third class graduate.
Well, I have moved on. Better things ahead. My advice to HND holders is to embrace entrepreneurship. That way, we can gain respect in the society. And for the country called Nigeria that have refused to stop this BSc/HND dichtonomy, what out for HND holders who will shape the economy soon!!!

Its a pity......Shell Nigeria shall pay d last Trillions in there accounts to hire me work for them, its just a matter of time... Let them discriminate.

dipopooo:
The issue of Bsc & HND is settled. For gudness sake Bsc is d baba. E easy to go university? Ogbeni, stop complaining go obtain DE form.

And you be opening your mouth spitting rubbish as if na first class you carry comot for sch!

Quote me and burn your cert with your own hands

baminasri:
Right now, I find it very hard to call myself a Nigerian. What is the point of pledging loyalty to a country that cares not for the HND graduates?

As an HND holder, I graduated with distinction (Top of my class)from the top polytechnic in Nigeria. With high hopes, I applied for the ongoing shell graduate recruitment. The recruitment process involves an online registration and series of online aptitude tests prior to oral interview. What broke my heart during the registration was when I saw the column fo where to indicate your class of degree. First option was first class. Second was second class upper. Third was second class lower and the fourth was third class/HND.
This means that irrespective of your grade in the polytechnic, shell sees you as a third class graduate.
Well, I have moved on. Better things ahead. My advice to HND holders is to embrace entrepreneurship. That way, we can gain respect in the society. And for the country called Nigeria that have refused to stop this BSc/HND dichtonomy, what out for HND holders who will shape the economy soon!!!

HND has always been seen like,I cnt enter uni let Me pick this one.


This tin is not Jst today, Hnd has always been seen Lik this in ages.that's Why Mst Ppl jump from OND to uni.


Polytechnic was seen as supplement to does who can't enter uni.this is a bitter truth.

To be real And Frank with you,I can't send my child to polytechnic, Cuz I cnt see him as a graduate.

This is the bitter truth,this does not Mean Ppl in poly r Nt good or Evn better Dan uni.

Infact I have seen a girl cry hell Cuz popsi said She has to go to poly.

Owliver:
baseless? are those schools you mentioned better than uniben and unilorin in terms of fair admission? stay clear if you have nothing better to say

They're not but if truly you wanted to attend a university, you would have persisted. I wrote ilorin's post utme and had 90 percent, still no admission, I tried another school that admitted me on merit. It never occurred to me to do OND. It's all a matter of choice

Shell joined the train of discrimination in 2011 when it excluded HND holders from its SITP (Shell Intensive Training Programme). Then, they allowed HND holders to go through the application process successfully without any hint of discrimination and even shortlisted some for aptitude test. It was at the venue of the aptitude test at Portharcourt that they took a u-turn and announced that HND holders are excluded from taking the test. My brother, who was among those affected, led a protest against the injustice. They stood their grounds and only compensated the HND invitees for their transportation to the venue of the test. They are not the first multinational oil company to discriminate HND holders. Even government controlled NNPC and NLNG are culprits.

prinxel:

Its a pity......Shell Nigeria shall pay d last Trillions in there accounts to hire me work for them, its just a matter of time... Let them discriminate.

This is a better spirit, become a professional and see if they won't ask you to come work for them

kunbit:

They're not but if truly you wanted to attend a university, you would have persisted. I wrote ilorin's post utme and had 90 percent, still no admission, I tried another school that admitted me on merit. It never occurred to me to do OND. It's all a matter of choice

90% and no admission. thats shows the flaw in our system. bro, not everyone has the patience to wait you know right? some waited 5years others cant wait. the schools are not even much to take all prospective students. all these are no faults of the students if you ask me. anyways, i got your point. kudos

dipopooo:



Myopic nt miopic ok? That's what we are saying

there is no need censuring my spelling all i wnt u to get is my message wic av achieve maximumly|

fratermathy:
This is getting too old and stale.

While I do not support totally embarrassing HND graduates and denying them of promotions, appointments and a chance to make a successful career, it should be noted that HND and B.Sc/B.A/B.Agric/B.Tech/LL.B/B.Fisheries/MBBS/DVM are different and the dichotomy must be emphasised.
HND is a technical diploma. It is technically not even a Degree but a National Diploma. B.Sc and its other appellations are the recognised standard for academic, theoretical and career based jobs and appointments. That is not to say HND cannot be used. It is just that HND is better off for handy middle-levelled and technical jobs/careers. The whole essence of HND is to make sure that there are middle-levelled skilled people in the society that can be called upon and relied on for their technical expertise. University graduates are seen as having done a theoretical study with much intellectual rigour and are, thus, deemed to have a high intellectual acuity for certain professions and careers. This must be known and not relegated. No matter how much sentiments come in and no matter how much we try to equate these certifications, the sacrosanct fact is that they are not the same. As long as one is a "Diploma" and another is a "Degree", they can NEVER be treated equal and same.

On the issue of Shell equating HND with Third Class, I have iterated in the previous paragraph that HND is not seen as an intellectually inclined degree but rather as a technically inclined diploma. Having a Distinction in HND only proves that you have an excellent technical expertise, perhaps even beyond that of University Degree holders. However, this does not translate into the fact that you are intellectually buoyant enough to stand a University First Class product. It doesn't add up. For one, our Nigerian Polytechnics operate a 4 points GPA system as opposed to the 5 Points used in our Nigerian varsities. Secondly, the units of courses taken in HND programmes are far lower, both individually and cumulatively, when compared with a University. Thirdly, the course contents in Polytechnics are peripheral and elementary as opposed to that of a University! Fourthly, the calibre of academic staff and their standing is much lower than that of a University. For one, a Polytechnic cannot have a Professorial Cadre! Polytechnics usually have substandard facilities and make-shift labs and instruments. All these come together to haunt the graduates of Nigerian Polytechnics!

The solution to all these bifurcations is easy. Polytechnics should be made to award a B.Tech rather than an "Ordinary" or "Higher" diploma. Polytechnic facilities should be overhauled and made to standards. The Professorial Cadre, alongside its competitive and cumbersome "floating" process, should be introduced to the Polytechnics. Polytechnics should employ the 5 or more Points GPA system and courses should be well developed, standard and carry higher units! In fact, the term "Polytechnic" should be hijacked from parlance and replaced with University of Technology or any other soothing appellation. We should always strive to follow the UK pattern in our technological pedagogical system.

Finally, on the issue of ostracization and stigmatization, I believe it is only Nigerian Legislative Bodies that can end this once and for all. As long as they are comfortable with it, nothing will change! Let's just stop flogging this issue and look forward to better things! This issue has been discussed, ignited and quenched severally since Nigerian employers' decisions to employ preferential treatments!  It is time we either take drastic measures or simply let it go as we have always done.

#MyTake
Mr. Baminasri, I am sorry about your plight! Your best is yet to come. I'd advise you to get a PGD and possibly a Masters though.


CC:
Freemanan, Freeemanan, Goodboiy, Scholes0, LordAdam; What do you think?

I agree with you.

I usually desist from commenting on issues I do not have well-grounded knowledge of, like the BSc/HND dichotomy issue.

However, I believe the President has received a report on the issue. http://thenationonlineng.net/buhari-willing-to-end-bsc-hnd-dichotomy-jamb/. Let us hope it is implemented quickly.

In all, every Nigerian problem needs a Nigerian solution. We shouldn't just adopt some solution that is obtainable outside the country. We should factor in, what I like to call the "Nigeria factor", in all our deliberations.

I really do hope the dichotomy is settled soon enough. I have a strong aversion for discrimination.

@fratermathy, while we may not agree on all issues. I portend that your insight is valuable nonetheless. Delta State is diverse and is unable to source the diversity for strength. With your knowledge of anthropology, your input is needed to change the course of the state. I am a man of science.

Clearly, you understand that the fundamental problem of the State is not scientific. It is anthropological. Charity begins at home they say.

-Lord

bookworm07:
This is why Nigerian graduates are jobless

...

Really?

Although I am sympathetic with the HND holders, the fact remains that Bsc and HND are not the same. If you want your degree to be equal to bsc, then get a freaking Bsc. To HND holders, don't you wonder why some people write jamb 2 or 3 times just to get into the university.

fratermathy:
This is getting too old and stale.

While I do not support totally embarrassing HND graduates and denying them of promotions, appointments and a chance to make a successful career, it should be noted that HND and B.Sc/B.A/B.Agric/B.Tech/LL.B/B.Fisheries/MBBS/DVM are different and the dichotomy must be emphasised.
HND is a technical diploma. It is technically not even a Degree but a National Diploma. B.Sc and its other appellations are the recognised standard for academic, theoretical and career based jobs and appointments. That is not to say HND cannot be used. It is just that HND is better off for handy middle-levelled and technical jobs/careers. The whole essence of HND is to make sure that there are middle-levelled skilled people in the society that can be called upon and relied on for their technical expertise. University graduates are seen as having done a theoretical study with much intellectual rigour and are, thus, deemed to have a high intellectual acuity for certain professions and careers. This must be known and not relegated. No matter how much sentiments come in and no matter how much we try to equate these certifications, the sacrosanct fact is that they are not the same. As long as one is a "Diploma" and another is a "Degree", they can NEVER be treated equal and same.

On the issue of Shell equating HND with Third Class, I have iterated in the previous paragraph that HND is not seen as an intellectually inclined degree but rather as a technically inclined diploma. Having a Distinction in HND only proves that you have an excellent technical expertise, perhaps even beyond that of University Degree holders. However, this does not translate into the fact that you are intellectually buoyant enough to stand a University First Class product. It doesn't add up. For one, our Nigerian Polytechnics operate a 4 points GPA system as opposed to the 5 Points used in our Nigerian varsities. Secondly, the units of courses taken in HND programmes are far lower, both individually and cumulatively, when compared with a University. Thirdly, the course contents in Polytechnics are peripheral and elementary as opposed to that of a University! Fourthly, the calibre of academic staff and their standing is much lower than that of a University. For one, a Polytechnic cannot have a Professorial Cadre! Polytechnics usually have substandard facilities and make-shift labs and instruments. All these come together to haunt the graduates of Nigerian Polytechnics!

The solution to all these bifurcations is easy. Polytechnics should be made to award a B.Tech rather than an "Ordinary" or "Higher" diploma. Polytechnic facilities should be overhauled and made to standards. The Professorial Cadre, alongside its competitive and cumbersome "floating" process, should be introduced to the Polytechnics. Polytechnics should employ the 5 or more Points GPA system and courses should be well developed, standard and carry higher units! In fact, the term "Polytechnic" should be hijacked from parlance and replaced with University of Technology or any other soothing appellation. We should always strive to follow the UK pattern in our technological pedagogical system.

Finally, on the issue of ostracization and stigmatization, I believe it is only Nigerian Legislative Bodies that can end this once and for all. As long as they are comfortable with it, nothing will change! Let's just stop flogging this issue and look forward to better things! This issue has been discussed, ignited and quenched severally since Nigerian employers' decisions to employ preferential treatments! It is time we either take drastic measures or simply let it go as we have always done.

#MyTake
Mr. Baminasri, I am sorry about your plight! Your best is yet to come. I'd advise you to get a PGD and possibly a Masters though.


CC:
Freemanan, Freeemanan, Goodboiy, Scholes0, LordAdam; What do you think?

Bros, no thanks for all the trash you just spewed regarding the GPA system. The polytechnic system is far more difficult than the university system as presently constituted.
I recently did a credential evaluation on www.wes.com with my HND and guess what , my certificate was equivalent to a US and Canadian postgraduate certificate based on the number of credit units which was more than 120 units required to obtain a university degree in North America. The most you can get your Nigerian degree is a degree equivalent. Keep fooling yourself with all the Nigerian certificate mentality.
It's unfortunate that the the discrimination is real, but if you know your onions you won't bother about the dichotomy.

baminasri:
Right now, I find it very hard to call myself a Nigerian. What is the point of pledging loyalty to a country that cares not for the HND graduates?

As an HND holder, I graduated with distinction (Top of my class)from the top polytechnic in Nigeria. With high hopes, I applied for the ongoing shell graduate recruitment. The recruitment process involves an online registration and series of online aptitude tests prior to oral interview. What broke my heart during the registration was when I saw the column fo where to indicate your class of degree. First option was first class. Second was second class upper. Third was second class lower and the fourth was third class/HND.
This means that irrespective of your grade in the polytechnic, shell sees you as a third class graduate.
Well, I have moved on. Better things ahead. My advice to HND holders is to embrace entrepreneurship. That way, we can gain respect in the society. And for the country called Nigeria that have refused to stop this BSc/HND dichtonomy, what out for HND holders who will shape the economy soon!!!

University graduate is way ahead of polytechnic graduate n d two can't b equal

U can't do direct MSc with hnd
Ur lecturers r mere bsc graduates
Most of u don't have five credits in waec
Most men/ladies won't marry a poly graduate
Hnd is a diploma nt a degree
Even when u get into civil service hnd starts below graduate n usually can't get to d top rank




I pity d good ones among u sha, if u ask me all polytechnics should be turned to university of technology n let them award B. Tech

fratermathy:

Nigerian Polytechnics operate a 4 points GPA system as opposed to the 5 Points used in our Nigerian varsities.

ibadan polytechnic and ibarapa polytechnic uses 5.00 GPA

AM PROUD TO BE A STUDENT OF IBADAN POLY