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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Jobs/Vacancies / Shell Discrimination Of HND Holders, Equating Them With Bsc Third Class. (55886 Views)
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Re: Shell Discrimination Of HND Holders, Equating Them With Bsc Third Class. by tirex(m): 9:38pm On Nov 10, 2015 |
[quote author=fratermathy post=39874582]This is getting too old and stale. While I do not support totally embarrassing HND graduates and denying them of promotions, appointments and a chance to make a successful career, it should be noted that HND and B.Sc/B.A/B.Agric/B.Tech/LL.B/B.Fisheries/MBBS/DVM are different and the dichotomy must be emphasised. HND is a technical diploma. It is technically not even a Degree but a National Diploma. B.Sc and its other appellations are the recognised standard for academic, theoretical and career based jobs and appointments. That is not to say HND cannot be used. It is just that HND is better off for handy middle-levelled and technical jobs/careers. The whole essence of HND is to make sure that there are middle-levelled skilled people in the society that can be called upon and relied on for their technical expertise. University graduates are seen as having done a theoretical study with much intellectual rigour and are, thus, deemed to have a high intellectual acuity for certain professions and careers. This must be known and not relegated. No matter how much sentiments come in and no matter how much we try to equate these certifications, the sacrosanct fact is that they are not the same. As long as one is a "Diploma" and another is a "Degree", they can NEVER be treated equal and same. On the issue of Shell equating HND with Third Class, I have iterated in the previous paragraph that HND is not seen as an intellectually inclined degree but rather as a technically inclined diploma. Having a Distinction in HND only proves that you have an excellent technical expertise, perhaps even beyond that of University Degree holders. However, this does not translate into the fact that you are intellectually buoyant enough to stand a University First Class product. It doesn't add up. For one, our Nigerian Polytechnics operate a 4 points GPA system as opposed to the 5 Points used in our Nigerian varsities. Secondly, the units of courses taken in HND programmes are far lower, both individually and cumulatively, when compared with a University. Thirdly, the course contents in Polytechnics are peripheral and elementary as opposed to that of a University! Fourthly, the calibre of academic staff and their standing is much lower than that of a University. For one, a Polytechnic cannot have a Professorial Cadre! Polytechnics usually have substandard facilities and make-shift labs and instruments. All these come together to haunt the graduates of Nigerian Polytechnics! The solution to all these bifurcations is easy. Polytechnics should be made to award a B.Tech rather than an "Ordinary" or "Higher" diploma. Polytechnic facilities should be overhauled and made to standards. The Professorial Cadre, alongside its competitive and cumbersome "floating" process, should be introduced to the Polytechnics. Polytechnics should employ the 5 or more Points GPA system and courses should be well developed, standard and carry higher units! In fact, the term "Polytechnic" should be hijacked from parlance and replaced with University of Technology or any other soothing appellation. We should always strive to follow the UK pattern in our technological pedagogical system. Finally, on the issue of ostracization and stigmatization, I believe it is only Nigerian Legislative Bodies that can end this once and for all. As long as they are comfortable with it, nothing will change! Let's just stop flogging this issue and look forward to better things! This issue has been discussed, ignited and quenched severally since Nigerian employers' decisions to employ preferential treatments! It is time we either take drastic measures or simply let it go as we have always done. #MyTake Mr. Baminasri, I am sorry about your plight! Your best is yet to come. I'd advise you to get a PGD and possibly a Masters though. CC: Freemanan, Freeemanan, Goodboiy, Scholes0, LordAdam; What do you think? ![]() You try, but some of those things arent true..like the courses offered |
Re: Shell Discrimination Of HND Holders, Equating Them With Bsc Third Class. by lilmizwierd(f): 9:58pm On Nov 10, 2015 |
Alani86:Geez man u try o I don't read more than 5 lines la and am a year 1 students if I graduate at this age even shell won't gimme cleaner job Dude am not federal government o :O :O :O or shell shey they have public complaint hotline U can use that , by the way you get sugar I want to eat cornslakes ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Re: Shell Discrimination Of HND Holders, Equating Them With Bsc Third Class. by Arogba: 10:01pm On Nov 10, 2015 |
chyna4luv:Bro, I work with a multinational and the so called university first class graduates are not even half as good as i am. They're always in my shadows! |
Re: Shell Discrimination Of HND Holders, Equating Them With Bsc Third Class. by 50pseamer(m): 10:04pm On Nov 10, 2015 |
For those that are Bad mouthing Polythecnics here it only shows the your level of close mindedness and inability to look at issues in a more objective manner, speaking as a First class Honours Bachelor of Engineering Degree holder from europe, who also had an HND from Yabatech, If you all think Nigeria will go forward by badmouthing our HND graduates you are only decieving your self and only a foolish Government will say HND Is middle level manpower. Please those that are intellectual here , if ND already qualifies you to be a technician , and a technician is already on the middle level cadre , why should HND still be middle level? in the UK HND is acquired in just 2 years in Nigeria 5 years and we are supposed to have inherited it from England who have moved on long ago and left bitterness and backwardness behind. why do HND in engineering students have to study control systems , Advanced Calculus , Advanced Circuit theory in the case of Electrical Engineering, when these are mostly design tilted courses that are needed at the level of an Engineer, and someone will say they are technicians. Most of the people parading themselves here as UNI graduate claiming they are superior and they have professors in their mostly quack Universities can not point to one single ground breaking research they have made, whereas Universities are made for research, when i was at yabatech ND students were helping some of these people solve their assignments. If you have not been to a polythecnic please watch your utterances, at least as someone who is at a masters level and have studied in different countries by the grace of God, I have seen that there is very little difference in the two titles , and the major difference is that they serve different purposes, they should be equivalent and made equal, if an institution in America evaluated the course content of HND in Electrical Engineering from The Polythecnic Ibadan and adjudged it to be equivalent to a bachelors degree, it only shows the useless attitude of the Nigerian Government and some Uni graduate who would rather talk than do research and get facts , compare course content, compare practical depth and evaluate the value of extra practical rigour and what its equivalence is in terms of theoretical knowledge. are you telling me that Nigeria as a country or your University professors are better than America or even its Educational establishment, what major contribution has Nigeria and our theory Bachelor holders made to the science world? please mention any serious invention and i will take you more seriously.In countries like Germany their sort of Polythecnic is equal to thier University and by law discrimination is not allowed , is Nigeria any better than Germany or England? that did the same. all you guys know is hating , badmouting and pulling others down, even though we have nothing to show for the stupid policies. The fact is that to be theoretically competent you dont need a professor you can pick any book and if you have a brain and patience you will understand. to carry out research you can follow generally laid down guidelines and do so without a proffessor, but having some depth of theory and a mastery of applied Technology and practice in Nigeria can almost only be found in the polythecnics in Nigeria. Keep supporting a nonsense and hope for technological advancement, as for me i know that a million Engineers from the University without our Technological partners and colleages will get nothing serious done, in the case of Engineering we are a family, and the earlier equal status is Given to HND and BSC in engineering the better, because when we discourage people from getting the ND because of fear of HND and we end up having little or no technicians in the future , tell me where you will find the work force that will drive industry repair our machines and build our power stations , placing a peg and useless impediments in the way of people is never a way forward . those that talk about entry requirements, how about the predegree program done at the Universities in nigeria for students not meeting basic requirements , does that not show that that is not a yardstick for discrimination , because the poly students stay longer to conpensate for this in the case of some other courses apart from engineering where more practical rigour coupled with advanced courses should have compensated for this , in most cases the poly students have more than the required credits , in my case i had credit and above in all courses from my first sitting for SSCE at the end of my secondary school, had admission to study computer science at Lasu but chose yabatech,and i dont regret it i only regret the ignorance of my beloved country and i pity our future. 7 Likes |
Re: Shell Discrimination Of HND Holders, Equating Them With Bsc Third Class. by 50pseamer(m): 10:06pm On Nov 10, 2015 |
oshom09:For those that are Bad mouthing Polythecnics here it only shows the your level of close mindedness and inability to look at issues in a more objective manner, speaking as a First class Honours Bachelor of Engineering Degree holder from europe, who also had an HND from Yabatech, If you all think Nigeria will go forward by badmouthing our HND graduates you are only decieving your self and only a foolish Government will say HND Is middle level manpower. Please those that are intellectual here , if ND already qualifies you to be a technician , and a technician is already on the middle level cadre , why should HND still be middle level? why do HND in engineering students have to study control systems , Advanced Calculus , Advanced Circuit theory in the case of Electrical Engineering, when these are mostly design tilted courses that is needed at the level of an Engineer, and someone will say they are technicians. Most of the people parading themselves here as Uni graduate claiming they are superior and they have professors in their mostly quack Universities can not point to one single ground breaking research they have made, whereas Universities are made for research mostly, when i was at yabatech ND students were helping some of these people solve their assignments. If you have not been to a polythecnic please watch your utterances, at least as some one with Masters level education from a University and have studied in different countries by the grace of God. I have seen that there is very little difference in the two titles , and the major difference is that they serve different purposes, they should be equivalent and made equal, if America could evaluate the course content of HND in Electrical Engineering from The Polythecnic Ibadan and adjudge it to be equivalent to a bachelors degree, it only shows the useless attitude of the Nigerian Government and some Uni graduate who would rather talk than do research and get facts , compare course content, compare practical depth and evaluate the value of extra practical rigour and what its equivalence is in terms of theoretical knowledge. are you telling me that nigeria as a country or your University professors are better than America or even its Educational establishment, what major contribution has Nigeria and our theory Bachelor holders made to the science world, please mention any serious invention and i will take you more seriously.In countries like Germany their sort of Polythecnic is equal to thier Universityand by law discrimination is not allowed , is Nigeria any better than Germany, or England that has done the same. all you guys know is hatred , badmouting and pulling others down, even though we have nothing to show for the stupid policies. The fact is that to be theoretically competent you dont need a professor you can pick any book and if you have a brain and patience you will understand. to carry out research you can follow generally laid out guidelines and do so without a proffessor, but having some depth of theory and a mastery of applied Technology and practice in Nigeria can almost only be found in the polythecnics in Nigeria. |
Re: Shell Discrimination Of HND Holders, Equating Them With Bsc Third Class. by jeamah1(m): 10:09pm On Nov 10, 2015 |
Your take is what I call #elucidating . While I do not support totally embarrassing HND graduates and denying them of promotions, appointments and a chance to make a successful career, it should be noted that HND and B.Sc/B.A/B.Agric/B.Tech/LL.B/B.Fisheries/MBBS/DVM are different and the dichotomy must be emphasised. HND is a technical diploma. It is technically not even a Degree but a National Diploma. B.Sc and its other appellations are the recognised standard for academic, theoretical and career based jobs and appointments. That is not to say HND cannot be used. It is just that HND is better off for handy middle-levelled and technical jobs/careers. The whole essence of HND is to make sure that there are middle-levelled skilled people in the society that can be called upon and relied on for their technical expertise. University graduates are seen as having done a theoretical study with much intellectual rigour and are, thus, deemed to have a high intellectual acuity for certain professions and careers. This must be known and not relegated. No matter how much sentiments come in and no matter how much we try to equate these certifications, the sacrosanct fact is that they are not the same. As long as one is a "Diploma" and another is a "Degree", they can NEVER be treated equal and same. On the issue of Shell equating HND with Third Class, I have iterated in the previous paragraph that HND is not seen as an intellectually inclined degree but rather as a technically inclined diploma. Having a Distinction in HND only proves that you have an excellent technical expertise, perhaps even beyond that of University Degree holders. However, this does not translate into the fact that you are intellectually buoyant enough to stand a University First Class product. It doesn't add up. For one, our Nigerian Polytechnics operate a 4 points GPA system as opposed to the 5 Points used in our Nigerian varsities. Secondly, the units of courses taken in HND programmes are far lower, both individually and cumulatively, when compared with a University. Thirdly, the course contents in Polytechnics are peripheral and elementary as opposed to that of a University! Fourthly, the calibre of academic staff and their standing is much lower than that of a University. For one, a Polytechnic cannot have a Professorial Cadre! Polytechnics usually have substandard facilities and make-shift labs and instruments. All these come together to haunt the graduates of Nigerian Polytechnics! The solution to all these bifurcations is easy. Polytechnics should be made to award a B.Tech rather than an "Ordinary" or "Higher" diploma. Polytechnic facilities should be overhauled and made to standards. The Professorial Cadre, alongside its competitive and cumbersome "floating" process, should be introduced to the Polytechnics. Polytechnics should employ the 5 or more Points GPA system and courses should be well developed, standard and carry higher units! In fact, the term "Polytechnic" should be hijacked from parlance and replaced with University of Technology or any other soothing appellation. We should always strive to follow the UK pattern in our technological pedagogical system. Finally, on the issue of ostracization and stigmatization, I believe it is only Nigerian Legislative Bodies that can end this once and for all. As long as they are comfortable with it, nothing will change! Let's just stop flogging this issue and look forward to better things! This issue has been discussed, ignited and quenched severally since Nigerian employers' decisions to employ preferential treatments! It is time we either take drastic measures or simply let it go as we have always done. #MyTake Mr. Baminasri, I am sorry about your plight! Your best is yet to come. I'd advise you to get a PGD and possibly a Masters though. CC: Freemanan, Freeemanan, Goodboiy, Scholes0, LordAdam; What do you think? ![]() 1 Like |
Re: Shell Discrimination Of HND Holders, Equating Them With Bsc Third Class. by bishoppapi: 10:59pm On Nov 10, 2015 |
wolesmile: How did you know? Show us evidences and statistics of this your research work. |
Re: Shell Discrimination Of HND Holders, Equating Them With Bsc Third Class. by Chukboi(m): 11:15pm On Nov 10, 2015 |
Next time when you see that kind of thing....click on the qualification you think you are worth 1 Like |
Re: Shell Discrimination Of HND Holders, Equating Them With Bsc Third Class. by LuckyLadolce(m): 11:36pm On Nov 10, 2015 |
ogawisdom:One of those half baked grads who weren't taught the difference between"fact and assumption". Anyway, it's your opinion and you have an absolute right to it. So enjoy your right to opinion while it last. But don't jst go out there to put up this claptrap in the midst of people with great minds. You may be given inundated bash of your life for your shallow-minded and shortsighted way of reasoning. |
Re: Shell Discrimination Of HND Holders, Equating Them With Bsc Third Class. by 4lorunsho(m): 11:52pm On Nov 10, 2015 |
Unitedabby:can I talk to u personally on whatsapp |
Re: Shell Discrimination Of HND Holders, Equating Them With Bsc Third Class. by haywire07(m): 11:53pm On Nov 10, 2015 |
Ken saro wiwa |
Re: Shell Discrimination Of HND Holders, Equating Them With Bsc Third Class. by 4lorunsho(m): 11:56pm On Nov 10, 2015 |
fratermathy:my brother I luv all ur post cuz u take every tin calmly #peace 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Shell Discrimination Of HND Holders, Equating Them With Bsc Third Class. by Mekzmoney(m): 12:25am On Nov 11, 2015 |
Trash... ayusco85:Especially no; 5. Amadioha go bend that ur mouth if u are nt careful. |
Re: Shell Discrimination Of HND Holders, Equating Them With Bsc Third Class. by Mekzmoney(m): 12:28am On Nov 11, 2015 |
Trash Especially no; 5 & 8.... And if u r nt careful, Amadioha go bend that ur mouth Iji Eli Ji Na Ede... ![]() So beta watch ur tongue. ayusco85: 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Shell Discrimination Of HND Holders, Equating Them With Bsc Third Class. by Mekzmoney(m): 12:45am On Nov 11, 2015 |
Oga, me too ooh..... ![]() I wasted my time, wasted d money I used to buy d time at d cafe, wasted my energy, in fact, wasted almost a whole day cos of bad netwrk at d CAFE ![]() Baba God pass them. Baboo13: |
Re: Shell Discrimination Of HND Holders, Equating Them With Bsc Third Class. by herrdeustch: 1:05am On Nov 11, 2015 |
baminasri: I don't know why HND graduates don't understand something so simple. The HND programme is a different skill set than the BSc programme-no body is discriminating against you guys! There are a lot of HND employees earning very good pay in the oil industry.Every qualification has its place and we all need to appreciate that. The major problem in Nigeria is not discrimination at all but lack of jobs due to the moribund state of Technological sectors and other heavy industries like mining,manufacturing and production generally. HND holders are technical people trained for technical work(we need to accept that) but unfortunately our Nation does not have the capacity to employ them. OP, shell is not equating you with failure as a HND holder, so do not misunderstand them as they have a fair employment record in Nigeria. So please and please, if you desire a job that requires a BSc,then by all means don't sit there moping and feeling discriminated against-do the needful and obtain your BSc,PGd and MSc and live your dream.Do not be deceived that HND is equivalent to BSc because that deception will cost you time,money and frustration just keep moving on. Myself I respect myself and I try to be honest with myself.I graduated with a 2:2 in Engineering.I don't go blaming any company that hires a HND holder with distinction over me or blaming shell for not hiring 2:2 just because I think I'am as smart as the guys with 2:1 - I just do what I'm supposed to do by adding value to my qualification! whether its a masters degree, a certification, an internship, a training, a volunteer programe etc, I keep forging ahead because the truth is that it is not easy even for the 1st class and 2:1 graduates to talk less of other grades or Qualifications.Wishing you all the best. |
Re: Shell Discrimination Of HND Holders, Equating Them With Bsc Third Class. by ogawisdom(m): 1:27am On Nov 11, 2015 |
LuckyLadolce: There r pure facts d only reason u went to polytechnic was bc u cant pass jamb n waec n out of frustration u went to poly. Deal with dt idio.t |
Re: Shell Discrimination Of HND Holders, Equating Them With Bsc Third Class. by ogawisdom(m): 1:27am On Nov 11, 2015 |
LuckyLadolce: There r pure facts d only reason u went to polytechnic was bc u cant pass jamb n waec n out of frustration u went to poly. Deal with dt u idio.t |
Re: Shell Discrimination Of HND Holders, Equating Them With Bsc Third Class. by ogawisdom(m): 1:31am On Nov 11, 2015 |
chyna4luv: Ppl who can't pass jamb and waec are the ones dt go to polytechnic BC their entry requirements r far lower than dt of uni. Bsc holders r ur lecturers so dnt ever compare to them with ur hnd nonsense |
Re: Shell Discrimination Of HND Holders, Equating Them With Bsc Third Class. by bhmw(m): 2:04am On Nov 11, 2015 |
sweetboiy:please, start thinking of your purpose on earth and what you can do to change your immediate environment for the better. Stop thinking certificate...creative people change the world, not certificates. My opinion though. 1 Like |
Re: Shell Discrimination Of HND Holders, Equating Them With Bsc Third Class. by bhmw(m): 3:35am On Nov 11, 2015 |
bhmw:I totally agree that the Bsc. paper certificate is highly rated than the HND paper certificate (policy)...just as you cannot compare SSCE with ND certificate. When you compare the holders, it's a different story. There are some SSCE holders who are intellectually sound than some ND holders...that does not mean that the two should be rated equally or the position of the latter should be given to the former. No matter how smart an SSCE holder is, no bank will employ him/her to handle money matters. Kindly apply this to the Bsc. and HND issue. Either you posses Bsc or HND, jobs are not readily available in the country. Want to make impact? You need your brain more. My opinion. 1 Like 2 Shares |
Re: Shell Discrimination Of HND Holders, Equating Them With Bsc Third Class. by lonelydora: 4:01am On Nov 11, 2015 |
wolesmile: MNCs Operators with OND and HND are far better than some B.Sc holders. Even in my company (which we are frowning at) OND/HND holders earn far above the B.Eng/B.Sc because of their years of experience. |
Re: Shell Discrimination Of HND Holders, Equating Them With Bsc Third Class. by Alani86: 4:20am On Nov 11, 2015 |
lilmizwierd: Little wonder!!! |
Re: Shell Discrimination Of HND Holders, Equating Them With Bsc Third Class. by bhmw(m): 4:26am On Nov 11, 2015 |
ogawisdom:Oga wisdom, oga wisdom...the scripture says wisdom is profitable to direct. What you said above is not true...passing jamb is mostly by luck. Jamb is never a true test of knowledge. Ogawisdom, if with a Bsc certificate, you are not earning up to N200,000 monthly, don't stay in a well furnished apartment, don't own a car(not a motor) and a host of other things that makes a man comfortable...and 2face that dropped out is living large and very comfortable. What do you call that kind of a certificate? Certificate don't make people, life experience does. We don't have to argue this again, the policy says Bsc certificate is better than HND certificate...simple. Is there any policy which says, a Bsc holder is allowed to make more impact than the HND holder? If there is no certificate, can you present yourself? I can't remember the last time i touched my certificate, I go about presenting myself not my certificate. Ogawisdom, the ERA of the higher your certificate, the higher your money is fading away...it's now, the wider your impact, the higher your money. I think Nigeria and love Nigeria. 2 Likes |
Re: Shell Discrimination Of HND Holders, Equating Them With Bsc Third Class. by skedy1(m): 6:39am On Nov 11, 2015 |
baminasri: How to deal with your frustration...Remember that thread ![]() #LifeGoesOn!! |
Re: Shell Discrimination Of HND Holders, Equating Them With Bsc Third Class. by LuckyLadolce(m): 6:47am On Nov 11, 2015 |
ogawisdom:Wack english! B.sc boy receive sense! |
Re: Shell Discrimination Of HND Holders, Equating Them With Bsc Third Class. by kunbit(f): 6:57am On Nov 11, 2015 |
bhmw:Please don't confuse the guy, while you are very right, in every decision you make, you need to put the environment you're in into consideration. Creative pple change the world truly but do you know what his goals are, his future aspirations? Making sure he gets a university degree will prevent him from creating this kind of thread in the next 5 years. Now that he has the opportunity to take the 'advantaged' degree in Nigeria, why not just do it? |
Re: Shell Discrimination Of HND Holders, Equating Them With Bsc Third Class. by WailingWailer00(m): 7:16am On Nov 11, 2015 |
wolesmile:I know a handful of Bsc holders who feed Hnd holders ![]() |
Re: Shell Discrimination Of HND Holders, Equating Them With Bsc Third Class. by oluwaemmanuel: 7:29am On Nov 11, 2015 |
Please can u send d link for d recruitment page please baminasri: |
Re: Shell Discrimination Of HND Holders, Equating Them With Bsc Third Class. by Synthase(m): 7:32am On Nov 11, 2015 |
Idrismusty97:You are right but then, we must also admit that they know what they are going into. I had to wait for 4 good years before gaining admission into the university just because I didn't want to attend a polytechnic where I will face this kind of discrimination upon graduation. Now compare myself to my good friend who is more brilliant than me but could not wait after not making the university grade at the first time of asking, he decided not to wait and went to poly where he had distinction both in ND and HND. My point is he can't complain as he knows what he is getting into and he has charted a good course for himself and he is doing very well today! 1 Like |
Re: Shell Discrimination Of HND Holders, Equating Them With Bsc Third Class. by bhmw(m): 7:34am On Nov 11, 2015 |
kunbit:Where did I say he should not get his certificate? When you know your purpose, then you go to wherever you can be trained to fulfil it. I started searching for my purpose late...i got it after graduation. A lot of us just want to go to higher institution not knowing why we are going. |
Re: Shell Discrimination Of HND Holders, Equating Them With Bsc Third Class. by ayusco85(m): 7:43am On Nov 11, 2015 |
Mekzmoney: hahahahaha. no be me write am o. i copy and paste am. so swear for the original author. but 5 is true na. infact all are true |
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