agaugust:


90% of equipment used were SANDF owned, you had about 8 other armies carrying only rifles about, what type of multinational force training is that? Training with equipment that you do not own and will not use in war. Waste of time. Each army should have shipped it's own vehicle by sea.
When that force goes into real conflict, they will be total strangers to each other in terms of equipment inter-operability.

Tanzania, South Africa and Malawi are a great example in the DRC.

Each individual nation will be using its equipment. If needed like the command stuff prior the exercise will be trained in using some equipment.

Inter - operability in terms communications systems will be a problem in the medium term.

MikeCZAR:
Yes or No was he's training effective or ineffective?

And where was he trained?

Is Eben part of today's SANDF ? He was trained by old apartheid SADF not current SANDF.

He was not the only one who trained Nigerians, he trained about 120 men of 72 mobile strike force. Russia and Pakistan trained 5,000 NA men who led the final offensive and were very effective, see their photos all over this thread, just scroll a few pages back and see the Russian Nigerians !

Israeli PMC trained large battalions, so Eben did only a very tiny fraction of training Nigerians.

Video : Israeli Nirtal Ltd PMC training Nigerian SF in North East war zone...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDkybigIskw

Don't personalize the matter, I believe AU did not do a good training worth the effort in South Africa, AU problem, but the host should have provided an adequate battle theatre that reflects current African needs.....or are they only going to intervene in open land desert wars?

MikeCZAR:
Tanzania, South Africa and Malawi are a great example in the DRC.

DRC war was an easy UN intervention against a dead M23 force that was already crippled by UN cutting off their logistics and military support.

When you face Boko Haram, El-Shabab, ISIS, you will see why 5 national armies will battle terrorists for 5 years and still not win. Go ask NATO in Afghanistan and Iraq.

MikeCZAR:


Each individual nation will be using its equipment. If needed like the command stuff prior the exercise will be trained in using some equipment.

Inter - operability in terms communications systems will be a problem in the medium term.

My point exactly, Africa should learn to do things right the first time and stop the habit of faltering 5 times before using basic sense and thinking.

All armies should have shipped in their own equipment for AMANI, the host should have provided a simulated sub urban battle scenario as it happens in today's African conflicts, the AU force is not going to intervene in wide open barren land desert style Arab-Israeli war of 1973.

What is worth doing is worth doing well. When you train for war, make it look real.

iterator24:
i'm impressed with the recent transformation in the NA.. they're looking more bad@ss these days

My own happiness is not just the appearance, but that they are actually badasses.

I think we already learned from the Arabs that appearance and shiny toys alone don't make a mean army.

agaugust:


Emotions and rhetoric do not defeat tactical military facts.

Yes there are training mortar rounds and training cannon rounds if you did not know. They get fired on troops and harm nobody, non-lethal rounds for combat training.

I was not condemning anybody, just not happy that this is all Africa could do, how will that type of training help in a real El-Shabbab, Boko Haram or Seleka attack on an urban city with 100,000 civilians in the war theatre at 12 midnight in total darkness?

That is the type of conflict Africa is facing today, not the type of scenario painted in that exercise, most of what they did there is just a repeat of basic military academy training for new recruits. Most armies that went there gained next to nothing after travelling 2,000 km from home.

How many African conflicts today are happening in a wide open empty dry land, and require AU intervention force?

The battle theatre provided by South Africa is grossly inadequate in terms of today's African conflict realities.

1. Even training rounds never ever get firef directly on troops.....I mean what are you training to do? Are you training to kill your own troops? The fact that live ammunition was used made the training even more life like.

2. Exercise Amani was held for three weeks!! Do you think this was the only exercise held? Several exercises were held, all of them focusing on different scenarios including urban warfare and night fighting.

3. This wasn't the only exercise... It was one of many, during exercise Amani, most of the troops especially those not in the SANDF have never been in a situation were they had a training exercises where live morter round fell just meters from them...never mind the fact that IFVs Tanks and Attack helicopters were firing live aamuntion amuntion as well.

5. Have you ever been to Lohatla? Trust me dude you have no idea how insane that place is.... It provides the perfect theatre for any situation a force would like to exercise.

Nigerian Army SF RDV

jln115:

1. Even training rounds never ever get firef directly on troops.....I mean what are you training to do? Are you training to kill your own troops? The fact that live ammunition was used made the training even more life like.

2. Exercise Amani was held for three weeks!! Do you think this was the only exercise held? Several exercises were held, all of them focusing on different scenarios including urban warfare and night fighting.

3. This wasn't the only exercise... It was one of many, during exercise Amani, most of the troops especially those not in the SANDF have never been in a situation were they had a training exercises where live morter round fell just meters from them...never mind the fact that IFVs Tanks and Attack helicopters were firing live aamuntion amuntion as well.

Training rounds get fired on troops and man marker bullets stick to your body and shows you got hit in battle.

Most of those armies have had live ammunition fired at them like Uganda, Kenya, Angola, Nigeria, etc. It's SANDF that should go do live ammo firing if they don't have the experience, please NO INSULT INTENDED. No worthy army finds it new to see live ammo fired around them.

Show us evidence of AMANI exercise done in urban setting, please stop speculating on what you cannot confirm.

Don't begin to fabricate imaginary stories of how AMANI has special training like US Navy SEALS just that they did not show us....dude, they did nothing like that level in AMANI.

Just complaining that AMANI is a poor show.....how does that type of training help an AU force facing a Black Hawk down battle scenario in the battle of Mogadishu Somalia? That is what I am complaining about.

@augugust relax na . You don't expect SA to empty a town so African militaries can learn to fight in it.

That facility happens to be the same with most standard training facilities and I believe the responsibility of urban warfare training is on the contributing countries.

Don't forget you are talking about an AU that can barely fund it's budget. Not to talk of the poor countries that can't afford bulletproof vests for their infantry.

Simply put bro, what you are proposing is damn too expensive.

The key thing for this AU force is command and control which I believe was highlighted by frum.

agaugust:


Training rounds get fired on troops and man marker bullets stick to your body and shows you got hit in battle.

Most of those armies have had live ammunition fired at them like Uganda, Kenya, Angola, Nigeria, etc. It's SANDF that should go do live ammo firing if they don't have the experience, please NO INSULT INTENDED. No worthy army finds it new to see live ammo fired around them.

Show us evidence of AMANI exercise done in urban setting, please stop speculating on what you cannot confirm.

Don't begin to fabricate imaginary stories of how AMANI has special training like US Navy SEALS just that they did not show us....dude, they did nothing like that level in AMANI.

Just complaining that AMANI is a poor show.....how does that type of training help an AU force facing a Black Hawk down battle scenarion in the battle of Mogadishu Somalia? That is what I am complaining about.

1. Soldiers used military grade laser tag exercises to do exactly what you say.

2. I'm not talking about small arm amuntion mate, I'm talking 120mm morter rounds, 155mm artillery rounds, 127mm rockets and 70mm rocket ,20mm canon fire from Rooivalk helicopters.

3. Amani exercise was held at Lohatla combat center, if you've ever been there you would know that it's possible to conduct urban warfare training.

4.So urban warfare and night training is special?

stillchris:




I think we already learned from the Arabs that appearance and shiny toys alone don't make a mean army.

.... But they make a beautiful thread, isn't that what we are all looking for, at-least in this thread?

LOL!

All the Naija Nijas in the house which kind body amour this MOPOL wear?

MikeCZAR:
Weren't core members of the 143rd battalion mobilized to create the 72nd strike force?

Cant really say. I always assumed they were drawn from the old 72nd Airborne Battalion at Makurdi.

agaugust:


The vehicle and equipment used in the exercise were 90% SANDF stuff. How does a foreign officer control the show? The host army has it's limits of capability and what it is willing to do as combat drills. You don't impose your will on another country's army, what could the Nigerian director do with an army he does not own?

Go back to the older pages of this thread and see that style of training exercise done at AMANI.....it is 100% SANDF style and format of training....lots of coloured smoke, slow pace vehicular movement, firing guns and shells into on wide open empty land space where there is no simulated enemy, assault course obstacles or simulated civilian presence as in a sub urban environment. Nigerian, Ugandan, Kenyan army do not train like that. Nigerian director, but he is compelled to act out a 100% South African style written training script.

I just believe Africa should do better, that training will not win them a tough war like facing ISIS, Seleka, Boko Haram or El-Shabab.

Who does not know how artillery works? SANDF you mean? They have not fired artillery in combat since 20 years ago.

- 5000 personnel
- Sandf contributes 1500
- "mainly SANDF"

LOL

1. Colored smoke is something you clearly didnt think of and is an exellent way of controlling the battlefeild.
Red = SHOOT HERE
Green = DONT FVCKING SHOOT here

2. Slow pace of vehicle movement is because of this thing called vehicle cohesion, one stops to cover while the other advances.

3. Plenty of simulated enemy - or did you miss the trenches/strongpoints as well as tragets?

4. Nigerian, Ugandan, Kenyan army do not conduct major exercises at all.

5. Nigerian director directed the exercise as planned by the AU and himself.

That type of training is how we defeated 60 000 Cubans and 120 000 Angolans in every single battle we fought.

agaugust:


Emotions and rhetoric do not defeat tactical military facts.

Yes there are training mortar rounds and training cannon rounds if you did not know. They get fired on troops and harm nobody, non-lethal rounds for combat training.

I was not condemning anybody, just not happy that this is all Africa could do, how will that type of training help in a real El-Shabbab, Boko Haram or Seleka attack on an urban city with 100,000 civilians in the war theatre at 12 midnight in total darkness?

That is the type of conflict Africa is facing today, not the type of scenario painted in that exercise, most of what they did there is just a repeat of basic military academy training for new recruits. Most armies that went there gained next to nothing after travelling 2,000 km from home.

How many African conflicts today are happening in a wide open empty dry land, and require AU intervention force?

The battle theatre provided by South Africa is grossly inadequate in terms of today's African conflict realities.

1. No there are not "training mortar and cannon rounds"

2. WHAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND ABOUT IT BEING A DEMONSTRATION

Who else could provide a battle space like Lohotla? Only we have such facilities on the continent.

Yet again your anti-South African bias is showing

agaugust:


Nothing special happened beyond what we saw.

Battle theatre is 'wrong' based on current African conflict environments.

Armies were using equipment they do not own and will not use in real conflict, or will Nigerian army drive SANDF Rooikat to war ?

ARE YOU RETARD.ED?

1. Which facilities in Africa are available and in the "right" environment?

2. We used our OWN equipment, each nation used the equipment THEY provided.

Those were South Africans in South African Rooikatsm what the fvck are you even talking about?

Dude, you are humiliating yourself, please stop

agaugust:


90% of equipment used were SANDF owned, you had about 8 other armies carrying only rifles about, what type of multinational force training is that? Training with equipment that you do not own and will not use in war. Waste of time. Each army should have shipped it's own vehicle by sea.

When that force goes into real conflict, they will be total strangers to each other in terms of equipment inter-operability.

Again, that was a DEMONSTRATION by a small section of the totall forces.

Did that look like 5000 men to you? Did it?

Dude, omg, I have no words.

agaugust:


A united force should blend, that is interoperability, they lack such, only SANDF equipment was used to train 90%. You don't go to war with equipment you do not have or own, or train with at home.

Mainly SANDF equipment was used for the DEMONSTRATION

agaugust:


Is Eben part of today's SANDF ? He was trained by old apartheid SADF not current SANDF.

He was not the only one who trained Nigerians, he trained about 120 men of 72 mobile strike force. Russia and Pakistan trained 5,000 NA men who led the final offensive and were very effective, see their photos all over this thread, just scroll a few pages back and see the Russian Nigerians !

Israeli PMC trained large battalions, so Eben did only a very tiny fraction of training Nigerians.

Video : Israeli Nirtal Ltd PMC training Nigerian SF in North East war zone...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDkybigIskw

Don't personalize the matter, I believe AU did not do a good training worth the effort in South Africa, AU problem, but the host should have provided an adequate battle theatre that reflects current African needs.....or are they only going to intervene in open land desert wars?

1. SANDF trains exactly like the SADF

2. O really? That is your problem? So we should have just terraformed the biggest and most advanced training facility in Africa so that it more adequatly represents what you want?

agaugust:


[s]DRC war was an easy UN intervention against a dead M23 force that was already crippled by UN cutting off their logistics and military support.

When you face Boko Haram, El-Shabab, ISIS, you will see why 5 national armies will battle terrorists for 5 years and still not win. Go ask NATO in Afghanistan and Iraq.[/s]

And now you are just sprouting B.S

agaugust:


My point exactly, Africa should learn to do things right the first time and stop the habit of faltering 5 times before using basic sense and thinking.

All armies should have shipped in their own equipment for AMANI, the host should have provided a simulated sub urban battle scenario as it happens in today's African conflicts, the AU force is not going to intervene in wide open barren land desert style Arab-Israeli war of 1973.

What is worth doing is worth doing well. When you train for war, make it look real.

So you would prefer if we held the live fire exercise in one of our towns or cities?

Also, Somalia/S.Sudan/Mali/Libya all prove you to be wrong

agaugust:


Training rounds get fired on troops and man marker bullets stick to your body and shows you got hit in battle.

Most of those armies have had live ammunition fired at them like Uganda, Kenya, Angola, Nigeria, etc. It's SANDF that should go do live ammo firing if they don't have the experience, please NO INSULT INTENDED. No worthy army finds it new to see live ammo fired around them.

Show us evidence of AMANI exercise done in urban setting, please stop speculating on what you cannot confirm.

Don't begin to fabricate imaginary stories of how AMANI has special training like US Navy SEALS just that they did not show us....dude, they did nothing like that level in AMANI.

Just complaining that AMANI is a poor show.....how does that type of training help an AU force facing a Black Hawk down battle scenarion in the battle of Mogadishu Somalia? That is what I am complaining about.

1. Citation needed for training rounds

2. Who will provide man marker equipment? Just doing a live-fire exercises is intense enough, I dont think you realize how much pressure those men are under.

2. Citations for live fire-combined arms exercises held by other nations.

3. Show us that AMANI did not have an urban element, please stop speculating on what you cannot confirm

4. Show us that AMANI did not do high level training like navy seals, please stop speculating on what you cannot confirm

You are complaining because your anti-RSA BIAS is showing again. You are basing your entire opinion on a DEMONSTRATION HELD FOR THE PRESS. And you have no idea what the exercise is comprised of - so you are speculating.

stillchris:
@augugust relax na . You don't expect SA to empty a town so African militaries can learn to fight in it.

That facility happens to be the same with most standard training facilities and I believe the responsibility of urban warfare training is on the contributing countries.

Don't forget you are talking about an AU that can barely fund it's budget. Not to talk of the poor countries that can't afford bulletproof vests for their infantry.

Simply put bro, what you are proposing is damn too expensive.

The key thing for this AU force is command and control which I believe was highlighted by frum.

Nope chief, watch this video....how did Nigeria alone fund the cost of different battle thearters for training those thousands of troops in that video....open desert, mountains, and urban city is simulated with prefab houses, buildings, walls, windows, rooms, etc. How did Nigeria alone fund all these?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDkybigIskw

Responsibility rests with the host of an exercise to provide relevant battle scenarios and theatres. South Africa did not want to spend money, they are waiting for AU to pay for everything, yet they want to be the host.

What is worth doing is worth doing well, AMANI is a waste of time for armies that have advanced beyond that low level like Angola, Uganda, Kenya, Nigeria.

Bros, I am complaining because Africa has a traditional habit of not doing things right and feeling good about it.

Patchesagain:


1. Citation needed for training rounds

2. Who will provide man marker equipment? Just doing a live-fire exercises is intense enough, I dont think you realize how much pressure those men are under.

2. Citations for live fire-combined arms exercises held by other nations.

3. Show us that AMANI did not have an urban element, please stop speculating on what you cannot confirm

4. Show us that AMANI did not do high level training like navy seals, please stop speculating on what you cannot confirm

You are complaining because your anti-RSA BIAS is showing again. You are basing your entire opinion on a DEMONSTRATION HELD FOR THE PRESS. And you have no idea what the exercise is comprised of - so you are speculating.

This thread is NOT a forum for projecting national pride at the expense of Africa`s progress.

Carry your argument and calls for endless citations to another thread.

I have raised my objections about AMANI and it`s for Africa to do better next time, mediocrity does not bring greatness.
.

agaugust:


Nope chief, watch this video....how did Nigeria alone fund the cost of different battle thearters for training those thousands of troops in that video....open desert, mountains, and urban city is simulated with prefab houses, buildings, walls, windows, rooms, etc. How did Nigeria alone fund all these?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDkybigIskw

Responsibility rests with the host of an exercise to provide relevant battle scenarios and theatres. South Africa did not want to spend money, they are waiting for AU to pay for everything, yet they want to be the host.

What is worth doing is worth doing well, AMANI is a waste of time for armies that have advanced beyond that low level like Angola, Uganda, Kenya, Nigeria.

Bros, I am complaining because Africa has a traditional habit of not doing things right and feeling good about it.

Your video shows small squad basic training - which is YOUR responsibility. AMANI Africa is not to teach soldiers how to fight we expect them to allready know that - The exercise is to teach people how to fight with others from different nations who use different equipment and doctrine.

AMANI was a brigade sized operation focused on maneuver and formation of a common doctrine.

Are you saying that small squad tactics are more complex than Brigade-Sized maneuvers?

Are you saying co-ordinating Arty/Armor/light inf/Moto Inf/Fast-Jet/CAS/CASEVAC/CSAR in combined arms air-land battle commanded over a battle-net composed of men who speak ~15 different languages and who follow ~15 different doctrines managed by a combat-management system no one else has and of a complexity that other African countries are not use to etc not as complex as 10 or so guys clearing a house?

Grow up, its obvious that (like with the Thales equipment) you simply dont like it because it happened in South Africa and because the demonstration involved mainly South African units.

Finally, can I also remind you that our last major exercise Young Eagle was one of the most complex exercises conducted in Sub-Saharan Africa... and yet you imply we are low level?

Also, I cannot emphasis this enough: [size=15pt]YOU ARE BASING YOUR OPINION ON A PRESS DEMONSTRATION [/size]

agaugust:


This thread is NOT a forum for projecting national pride at the expense of Africa`s progress.

Carry your argument and calls for endless citations to another thread.

I have raised my objections about AMANI and it`s for Africa to do better next time, mediocrity does not bring greatness.
.

1. Yes, this is not a forum for projecting national pride - YOU ARE THE ONE THAT BROUGHT NATIONALITY INTO IT
2. Your objections are speculation based on a PRESS DEMONSTRATION and thus are invalid

Do you know the point of the exercise? Do you know how long it was and what sub-exercises were performed? No you do not, as usual you shoot your mouth off without having any idea what you are talking about.

Dont come here, throw this forum into turmoil, spew mindless opinion, bring nationality into it and then try to take the moral high ground.

Guys I just cant even.

I just cant even deal with this guy.

anyway, now that I am done with that insufferable oaf

Time for some South African military humor, courtosy of our man John Dovey (I found him on youtube)!

Some Reservist mortar crews have some difficulty during training....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw-O_xbW6os

Nigerian Special Forces ATV

"Insufferable oaf"...
You are not the only one who knows how to abuse people.
This thread is not for abuse but yet you south africans keep spamming this thread with abuse.
You know which thread u can take all the abuse to...
It is just embarrassing watching you act like kids
u keep on insulting people on this thread for no just cause
Most people come here to learn and read and see interesting write-ups, pix and videos without all this abuse.
If you know u cannot abide by that, why not just STOP posting here
CEASE AND DESIST

Patchesagain:
anyway, now that I am done with that insufferable oaf

Time for some South African military humor, courtosy of our man John Dovey (I found him on youtube)!

Some Reservist mortar crews have some difficulty during training....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw-O_xbW6os

SPV option for the Nigerian Army


Seeing the popular use of armed and un-armed ATVs by the Nigerian army, the potential prospect of additional SPVs for the Nigerian military looks increasingly.

This landrover based SPV is a potential option for the army. Light, Air-transferable, 3 gun ports and a "land-rover".

A well kitted Nigerian body