Umar Ibn Al-khattab: His Contributions In The Battles Of Islam - Islam for Muslims (2) - Nairaland
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| Re: Umar Ibn Al-khattab: His Contributions In The Battles Of Islam by BETATRON(m): 8:08am On Nov 14, 2015 |
AlBaqir:the problem is he picks one verse of the koran without even understanding it fully and makes conclusion I wonder how some-one who runs away from battle field leaving the prophet behind will be a friend of God, "Say! If you love Allah,FOLLOW me ALLAH will love you" 2 Likes |
| Re: Umar Ibn Al-khattab: His Contributions In The Battles Of Islam by AlBaqir(m): 8:28am On Nov 14, 2015 |
MrOlai, Empiree, Kazlaw2000, BETATRON, HAkorehdeh, [username, you are excluded because you never believed in hadith] The bulk of what you see on this thread are Sahih ahadith in line with Sunni ilm hadith. Obviously all the ahadith are corroborated by the Quran: {"When you ran off precipitately and did not wait for any one, and the Apostle was calling you from your rear, so He gave you another sorrow instead of (your) sorrow, so that you might not grieve at what had escaped you, nor (at) what befell you; and Allah is aware of what you do"}[surah Aal Imran:153]. That surah (above) talks about battle of Uhud. Surah Ahzab:10-16 talk about battle of Ahzab (khandaq), Some ayah in at- Tawbah talk about battle of Hunayn, surah Fath entirely talk about Hudaybiyyah. I deliberately avoid making comment on each hadith since they are self explanatory and backed by Quran. Unfortunately none of you is able to come out with any counter. Rather some made weird claims [Empiree alluded those ahadith are Mawdoo - obviously those Quranic verses too might be Mawdoo. MrOlai claimed Albaqir is badmouthing Umar etc]. You are just being sympathetic and satisfied with "what our Ulama/forefathers taught us". How fair are you guys? This is an academic forum. Kindly comment academically with maturity. 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Umar Ibn Al-khattab: His Contributions In The Battles Of Islam by AlBaqir(m): 8:43am On Nov 14, 2015 |
BETATRON: My brother Kazlaw2000 is just being sympathetic. That ayah above summed it all. Uthman ibn Affan had the following to his credit: # Nowhere to be found in the battle of Badr # Ran far away at Uhud, only to return after 3 days # Nowhere to be found in the battle of Khandaq, Khaybar # Ran away at Hunayn All these are well documented as Sahih in Sunni records. In line with the above verse {Say (O prophet)! If you love Allah, follow me. Allah will love you and forgive you your sins}, how just how is this personality loved by Allah and His Prophet? You cant eat your cake and have it. I have been fooled in the past. I just cant be any longer. No fool will EVER make it to Jannah. Nice contributions BETATRON |
| Re: Umar Ibn Al-khattab: His Contributions In The Battles Of Islam by BETATRON(m): 8:59am On Nov 14, 2015 |
AlBaqir:the problem is most of us will not try our utmost to verify the authenticity of the al-hadiths,,simple because the write-up was from a shia At least do the needful by verifying the hadith..if it turns out that they are false then criticize the op ..and not allowing sentiments to cloud our reasoning 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Umar Ibn Al-khattab: His Contributions In The Battles Of Islam by AlBaqir(m): 9:12am On Nov 14, 2015 |
Empiree: Very unfortunate that Empiree could be so disturbed to this extent. Brother you are simply derailing. This thread is about Umar's contributions at the battlefields. The thread has NOTHING to do with differences between Sunni-Shi'i . Nothing to do with Khilafah. And worst still NONE of the references is Shi'i. So what's the fuss, Mr Empiree?! If you cannot defend Umar the great, you don't need to be Shi'i this Shi'i that. Observe Mr Harkorehde, all he needs and follows is academic dialogue. It pains him when people like you derail or some people pollute thread with abuse. |
| Re: Umar Ibn Al-khattab: His Contributions In The Battles Of Islam by kazlaw2000: 10:26am On Nov 14, 2015 |
AlBaqir:If indeed, Uthmaan ran away from all these fronts, then what conclusion are we to make about his personality? That he was a munaafiq, kaafir,faasiq, dhaalim, mukhallif or what? For Allaah sake, it was nothing more than a mistake. Have u imagined hundreds of enemies with brandished swords charging at you on a hot afternoon when you few in number? I doubt u would have waited. I an not challenging the accuracy of your reports, though they still need to be investigated and Siirah scholars expllanatns on them sought, but ur motive is what I question. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Umar Ibn Al-khattab: His Contributions In The Battles Of Islam by kazlaw2000: 10:53am On Nov 14, 2015 |
The Sahabahs are not perfect. Perfection belongs only to Allaah. May Allaah forgive our predecessors for their shortcomings. Running away from the battle field, whilst a great sin, is not something we can use to jest them. Those battles are real testers of men's faith. I doubt we wouldnt have fared worse. So, with due respect sir, there isn't any need for this thread if not malice. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Umar Ibn Al-khattab: His Contributions In The Battles Of Islam by Empiree: 12:47pm On Nov 14, 2015 |
Ewooooooooooooooooooooooo  everybody ganged up on me. Ye paripa usermane, whatz up?. I was actually expecting you would be here soon. Ain't got problem with you bro. Just be happy Albaqir, you dont seem to get it though. Bro kazlaw2000 just said my mind up there. It's not about the evidences you provided. I am not just interested in going through all that. The other thread where we had fair debate on Aisha, i only chose to go through that for educational purposes I can almost always understand your motive behind thread like this. This is the reason i eschew not because i can't debate academically. My point is, do we really need this unnecessary sectarian division in this day and age when unity is of supreme importance? I have gone through this before from 2007 to 2011. That is why i see no reason going through it again. It's never resolved. Like Sheik Yasir Quadri once said, it's better not to dwell on differences btw the two sects. It far too irrelevant to me. I have defended the Shia against Sunni and Salafi here several times. So i see no reason for this. It will never end. Your motive is questionable here not about not being able to debate academically. And yes, we should fear Allah what we say about these men. These are front runners of Islam. |
| Re: Umar Ibn Al-khattab: His Contributions In The Battles Of Islam by AlBaqir(m): 3:09pm On Nov 14, 2015 |
Empiree: Brother if you don't have a healthy contribution, you can simply go to sport or building section. You are something else. Quran in several places talk about Musa and Pharaoh! Ant and Sulaiman! People of Shuaib and Camel etc etc. Story of the dead - what does it have to do with us today, I am asking in line with your reasoning. Whether we like it or not, that story of Musa and Pharaoh (and others) will remain to be talk about till Day of Judgement. If you like learn from it or vice versa. Battle of Badr, Battle of Uhud, Battle of Ahzab, Battle of Hunayn, treaty of Hudaybiyah etc all these are exposed in the Quran. Whether you like it or not those reports will continue to be till the last hour. The life of the holy Prophet and all those around him are far more important than the story of pharaoh yet you don't want us to unveil those hidden truth (because of blind love for certain personalities) but rather we should continue singing praises full of lies. Quran talk about the Munafiqs among the Sahabah; in fact a whole chapter was revealed about them. You don't want us to talk because some of the characteristics describe in the surah fit certain individuals like gloves. What exactly do you want us to talk about? # Umar would have been a prophet after Muhammad # When revelation ceased for a while, prophet feared Jubril have switched the revelation to Umar # Shaitan used to run away from Umar # Angel celebrated when Umar became Muslim # Revelation used to descend upon the intention of Umar I bet all these would have made the FP with lots of Jazakallahu khairan! Allahu Akbar! Thanks OP! Motive Behind This Thread Albaqir is simply examining part of the life of Umar, the great. Is there a crime there? Is this thread not far important than your unending thread about Sheik Adam al-Ilory and the bunch of Sufis? Allah revealed a lot of personalities in His book. Some were excellent. Some were good. Others were bad etc. What do you learn from their stories? |
| Re: Umar Ibn Al-khattab: His Contributions In The Battles Of Islam by AlBaqir(m): 4:28pm On Nov 14, 2015 |
kazlaw2000: If it is a mistake, our Lord is the Most Merciful. He forgives so long you repent and never turn back to the same crime. Allah forgave the great runners of Uhud, who left their Prophet for dead. What was the result? The treaty of Hudaybiyya took place four years prior to the death of the Holy Prophet (saw). The pagans prohibited the Muslims from entering into Makkah. The Messenger of Allah (saw) requested thereupon the companions paid allegiance to him (saw) under the Tree. As a result of this the following verse was revealed: {Indeed, Allah was pleased with the believers when they gave the Bay'ah (pledge) to you (O Muhammad) under the trees, He knew what was in their hearts, and He sent down As-Sakinah (tranquillity) upon them, and He rewarded them with a near victory } [Quran 48:18] The allegiance to the Holy Prophet (saw) and revelation of the verse was met under certain conditions as the previous verse sheds more light on this: {Verily, those who give Bayah (pledge) to you (O Muhammad) they are giving Bayah to Allah. The hand of Allah is over their hands. Then whosoever breaks his pledge, breaks it only to his own harm, and whosoever fulfils what he has covenanted with Allah, He will bestow on him a great reward} [Quran 48:10] PURPOSE OF THE BAY'AH Imam Muslim records: Qutaibah Ibn Sa'id - Layth b. Sa'd and Muhammad b. Romh - AlLayth - Abi Zubair - Jabir who said: We were one thousand and four hundred on the Day of Hudaybiyah. We paid allegiance to him (the Prophet) and 'Umar was holding the latter's hand (when he was sitting) under the tree (called) Samura (to administer the oath to the companions). He said: We took oath to the effect that we would not flee, but we did not take oath to death. {Sahih Muslim vol.2, p.#900} After these Bay'ah, following happened: # At the battle of Ahzab, some [led by Umar] choose to hide from the vicinity leaving their Prophet with the enemies # At the battle of Khaybar, after Abu Bakr ran away, Umar did the same the following day in a more disappointing fashion. Soldiers assigned to him accused him of cowardice and he too accused them. # At Tabuk, some choose to assassinate the holy Prophet. # At Hunayn, even when the Muslims outnumbered the Mushriqun, they ran away as usual; and the great Faruq even claimed it was Allah's command. So all these were not mistakes. They simply don't wanna die as Umar himself explained:{We took oath to the effect that we would not flee, but we did not take oath to death} kazlaw2000: Ma sha Allah brother. Those instances are usually scary. Only those who believed firmly in Allah and His Promise [al-Jannah] will wait. And if you do read Quran, surah Tawbah talk about Battle of Hunayn and accused the sahabah (the runners amongst them) of running away even when they outnumbered the Polytheists That's why we are pleading to justice that the runners can never be equal or more meritorious than the steadfast. At Uhud, when companions took their flights, according to Quran, Prophet was shouting "come back...do not run away". Between 9-12 companions remained with the Prophet. Ali alone received more than 40 wounds. Yet the runners are greater than the steadfast in your world. Where's your conscience? kazlaw2000: Please do. This is an academic forum. I beg you in the name of Allah. If you want ALL the scan pages of my references, I will be more than glad to post them ALL. As per my motive?! Dear kazlaw2000 you will deny yourself of the truth if you think my motive is the usual Shii-Sunni discussion or that I want to project somebody over somebody and blah blah blah. Since when is it a crime to examine the other side of these personalities? The Sahabah were too important than not examining every account of their lives. Sahaba can either lead you to Jannah or Jahanam. kazlaw2000: Honestly I agree with you, brother. We should never jest with this. Never! Rather we should question ourselves: Were those runners [who fear death! Who prefer to remain alive than Allah's promise!], were they superior in anyway than the steadfast? Do they worth being emulating? At this stage of my life, I can no longer deceive myself. kazlaw2000: Yes those battles were real test for the men of faith. The real men of faith were the steadfast. Runners and Steadfast can never ever be compared. If it happens in our time, no doubt some will remain steadfast and others will run away. In the Ziyarat of Ashura, we praise the companions of Imam Hussein by saying "those who gave their all for Hussein". Your ALL is your life. Blessed were those who gave their lives for Muhammad (peace be upon him and his progeny). kazlaw2000: Really? Is there a rule in the Quran or ahadith or NL that restrict us from examining the life of our great Faruq or other personalities? How long do you want the truth to be hidden and falsehood to rein? Brother if you deny yourself the truth, never ever deny your children and upcoming generations the truth because if by chance they unveil it, they will curse you. Treaty of Hudaybiyyah and contributions of Umar is next. Then a thread shall be open for Abu Bakr, as-Siddiq, Uthman, the Shy one, etc. WA Salam alaykum |
| Re: Umar Ibn Al-khattab: His Contributions In The Battles Of Islam by Empiree: 5:47pm On Nov 14, 2015 |
Op, I do respect your passion for the deen. However, do you actually think for a second by "exposing" the first three Imams would change anything. That's rhetorical question by the way. And I think reading from your reply to me up there shows that you were pregnant for far too long Well, ain't take anything personal. My question to you now is, if Abu Bakr, Umar Faruq and Uthman bin Affan (RA) are evil, who are those (then) Quran (9:100) is talking about according to your exegisis?. Imam Ali (RA), Fatimah (RA)?. Who else besides these two and well-known connected with the prophet (SAW)? Anyways nothing will change. Both sides will hold on firmly to their literatures till the end time. It's being over 1400 yrs now, albaqir can not change anything. My advice is both sides should respect their differences. Sunnis will forever love and respect Umar ibn Khattab (May Allah be pleased with him) https://www.nairaland.com/1424784/umar-ibn-alkhattab-golden-leader Ranks007:
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| Re: Umar Ibn Al-khattab: His Contributions In The Battles Of Islam by Nobody: 6:38pm On Nov 14, 2015 |
Empiree:next time quote me to the later. |
| Re: Umar Ibn Al-khattab: His Contributions In The Battles Of Islam by AlBaqir(m): 6:40pm On Nov 14, 2015 |
Empiree: Each and everytime you comment instead of admitting the truth, there are flaws in your replies. I just wonder why you continue to limit your opinion within your world. Kindly go to the internet and search for Sunni converts compare to Shi'i converts if that's what you want to analyze. Repeatedly you continue singing the song "nothing can change". Nigeria today, esp in the north, there are more than 20million Shi'i (all Sunni converts). # In the mid 60s, Shaik Salim al-Bishri, the then head of Al-Ahzar University, Cairo, met and opened a dialogue with Sayyid Abd al-Hussein Sharaf al-Din al-Musawi. The result was that Al-Ahzar University declared fatwa that Jafari school (Shi'i) should be part of the already existed 4 madhhabs. You can verify this online, and their great dialogue can also be download in pdf titled "The Right path". # Dr. Sheik Tijani al-Samawi is a known Tunisian Alim. You can read his profile on wikipedia. He was once a core Sunni. Read the story of his conversion. It was centered around Umar ibn al-Khattab. # Sheik Tariq Yusuf. Goggle him please. He's based in Michigan. An Arabic speaking Sheik. He's conversion story centered around Umar. Bro I don't wanna bore you. The conversion rate of Sunni to Shi'i compare to Shi'i to Sunni is 99 - 2. Quote me please. I am a living example. So how dare you saying "nothing can be changed". Obviously you see through your nose alone. # You made mention of Dr. Yassir al-Qadhi. He was a chronic wahabi and a core anti-Shia. His story changes today. He admitted to be following blind propaganda against the Shi'i and Said inexperience and lack of knowledge made him say bad about Shi'ism though he never agree with them wholly. Just google "Press tv - Sheik Yassir Qadhi: Sunni and Shi'i." I can go on to kill that repetitive slogan of yours. And besides, on the day of judgment, only you will account and nobody is gonna bear anybody's burden. Stop blocking your aql with "nothing will change". Follow the truth/falsehood or turn away from the truth/falsehood. The choice is yours and unto Him is our return. 2 Likes |
| Re: Umar Ibn Al-khattab: His Contributions In The Battles Of Islam by Empiree: 6:55pm On Nov 14, 2015 |
Ranks007:you still alive |
| Re: Umar Ibn Al-khattab: His Contributions In The Battles Of Islam by Sadiq3051(m): 6:56pm On Nov 14, 2015 |
Reading all the above comments make me think other wise suni-shia the hit discussion... This is wat is causing problem around the Muslims world today... All this sect wateva is a biq p....Alhamdulilahi I belonged to non,and this make me to feel free among my fellow Muslim.. sallam ! 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Umar Ibn Al-khattab: His Contributions In The Battles Of Islam by Empiree: 7:04pm On Nov 14, 2015 |
albaqiryou see albaqir, I dont believe in the idea of converting from sunni to shi'i vice versa . All that sounds silly to me. I already gone through this experience 7yrs ago. That's why I don't even want to engage much in sectarian discuss especially "SUSHI". It's irrelevant to me unless when and where its necessary. The only conversion or reversion I believe in is from other religions islam. Islam does not recognize sunni or shia. The names are themselves innovation. When I first heard someone said that in 2008 on fb, I thought 'what the heck are we turning islam in to'. Is "conversion" from sunni to shi'i make sunni kafir?. Absolutely not. If that's the case them, to me it is irrelevant. The conversion only surrounded by some kalif. Nothing to do with the belief of La Ilaha ila Allah. Not believing or believing in any of the kulafah Roshidun is not a condition that upholds or nullifies one's islam. However, for me and some sunni, castigating any of the 4 for rightly guided caliphs is casting massive vote of no confidence on the prophet (saw). I likewise do not believe in the idea of bashing shia not being muslims. I'm definitely against that as well. But trying to get me to engage in unending "SUSHI" i:e sunni/shia debate is extraneous to me. I said many times in the past that I already being through that. It doesn't solve anything. |
| Re: Umar Ibn Al-khattab: His Contributions In The Battles Of Islam by Empiree: 7:26pm On Nov 14, 2015 |
Sadiq3051:just nailed it |
| Re: Umar Ibn Al-khattab: His Contributions In The Battles Of Islam by Nobody: 7:51pm On Nov 14, 2015 |
Empiree:yes and I saw the death you sent. |
| Re: Umar Ibn Al-khattab: His Contributions In The Battles Of Islam by AlBaqir(m): 7:54pm On Nov 14, 2015 |
Empiree: Mr Empiree, review all your comments and you will see you are the one building houses out of nothing. You cannot attempt any of the OP's challenge to defend Umar. All you comitnue saying is Shii- Sunni, Khilafah-Imamah. I told you how you are derailing. You started this derailing stuff and I told you to go elsewhere if the heat is too much for you to bear. Whether you like be Sunni or Sufi or Wahabi! That's your own choice. If you like be "just a muslim" and the world will challenge you how and from whom you derive your practices. For the fifth time, this thread has nothing to do with Sunni-Shi'i dialogue. This is a thread examining a part from the life of Umar. And ALL the references used are ALL Sunni. No comment from the OP other than posting the ahadith. So please back off with your Sunni-Shi'i slogan. Next heat is coming up in sha Allah: It is called RAZIYAT YAOMUL KHAMIS - CALAMITY OF THURSDAY! |
| Re: Umar Ibn Al-khattab: His Contributions In The Battles Of Islam by AlBaqir(m): 7:59pm On Nov 14, 2015 |
Sadiq3051: Brother the OP is never talking about Sunni-Shi'i. Kindly review over and over. Those who cannot cope with the heat of truth are the ones making this thread seem Sunni-Shi'i. ALL the references posted are 100% Authentic from Sunni books of ahadith. So how is it Shi'i business?! They are seriously trying to derail. This thread looks and examine just a part in the life of Umar Ibn al-Khattab. Others are coming soon in sha Allah. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Umar Ibn Al-khattab: His Contributions In The Battles Of Islam by BETATRON(m): 8:22pm On Nov 14, 2015 |
AlBaqir:na'am the right path"al-murajat" was my first shia book and I can remember clearly that after just 50pages I began to see shism in a new light,,also read book from sheik tijani al-shamawi (to be with the truth-full,,then I was guided, shias-the real followers of sunnas et al)..also books from sayyid mujtaba musavi lari "God and His Attribute,the seal of the prophet and his message,imamate and leadership-tranlated by prof hamid algar(who also became shia after the tralation) ethics and spiritual growths Now I am looking forward to getting a personal shia library With books from personalities like the grant ayatullah makarim shiraza,,imam khomeini,,murtadha mutahari,allama tabatabi'a one cannot help but love the shias 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Umar Ibn Al-khattab: His Contributions In The Battles Of Islam by Empiree: 9:24pm On Nov 14, 2015 |
@Albaqir, indeed you do have right to open whatever topics you want and post whatever you want. I am not posting here just for sunni-shia thing. Rather for the cause of Islam. I will have to put you in the same category of some of our salafi brothers whom I have criticized for being too sectarian. Brother Sodiq you quoted op there realized without being told this thread is sectarian just by reading your op. You may twist it all you want. Fact is we are advised to get out of sectarianism. There is nothing wrong discussing differnces but when it getting too constant, then, there is motive behind it. Whether you like it or not brother, it's what you doing. Sheik Imran Hussein gave his advise and intelligent people should learn to do that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX2W_M897Mo I will just watch this thread from afar now. I see no reason to contribute further. We already have fair debate on other thread about Aisha. Here is more advice on COMBATING SECTARIANISM IN ISLAM for those who which to learn to do that. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sheikh+imran+hosein+on+sectarianism Walaikum Salaam 1 Like |
| Re: Umar Ibn Al-khattab: His Contributions In The Battles Of Islam by AlBaqir(m): 7:29am On Nov 15, 2015 |
^Mr Empiree, how is examining Umar ibn al-Khattab's life in light of Sunni Sihahu ahadith tantamount to Sectarianism? Please educate me. You never accused all the Sunni Imams and Muhaddiths that documented these ahadith and graded each and everyone of them Sahih/Hasan. rather the person that read out and posted these 'hidden' ahadith is being accused of sectarianism. Afala taqilun?! Your Sheik, Imran Hussein, on one hand Shia are Muslims to him. On the other hands they are misguided for their beliefs in Imamah. What a 'sensible' sheikh. A sheik that doesn't know or deliberately kept silent on Verses of Imamah in the Quran, hadith Thaqalain and hadith Khalifatain. Do me a favour brother, keep his pathetic lectures off my tag please. |
| Re: Umar Ibn Al-khattab: His Contributions In The Battles Of Islam by AlBaqir(m): 7:45am On Nov 15, 2015 |
Empiree: Quran is indeed the word of the All-Knowing, Allah. Verse 100 of Surah at-Tawbah is explicit. Again your wish is to see ALL the Muhajirun and Ansar make the list but our Lord is truthful. He never combine the believers and the hypocrites. He said "from amongst (the Muhajrun and Ansar). Verse 101 of the same surah corroborate the verse 100 and kill your desires totally. It revealed that some of those who used to flock round the Prophet were chronic Munafiq. # Do you really want to know about the first Khalifah, whether he was part of those mentioned in verse 100 or not? Surah Tawbah:40 explained him deeply. And Surah Anfal:15-16 capped it. # Umar b. Alkhattab? See surah 49:15 and also surah Anfal:15-16 #Uthman b. Affan - surah Anfal:15-16 is enough. Allah is firm in His word and promise. |
| Re: Umar Ibn Al-khattab: His Contributions In The Battles Of Islam by sino(m): 12:29pm On Nov 15, 2015 |
Yet another shallow argument from our shia brother AlBaqir, perhaps you do not know the implications of these your obsessions with finding fault with the 3 Caliphs before Ali (RA). And selectively picking a quranic verse or hadith to support your agenda is just plain deceitful, speaks volume of your person…Allah says: “Those of you who turned back on the day when the two hosts met it was Satan who caused them to backslide because of some (sins) they had earned. But, Allah indeed has forgiven them. Surely, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Forbearing.” [Surah Aal ‘Imran 3:155]. Can we all see where Allah (SWT) says he had forgiven those who turned back in the battle of Uhud, as Muslims, when Allah (SWT) says He had forgiven these people, then we do not have the authority to speak ill of these people, no matter what, doing so means we know better than Allah (SWT), and that is automatic doom for such a person. When Allah says He forgives, who the hell is AlBaqir to blame these companions?! You might claim this is an academic discuss, but that is just a smokescreen, your agenda is quite known. Let us accept for a moment, that all what you are trying to tell us about these caliphs are true, that they kept fleeing from battle. Then how do you explain these companions (especially Umar) being caliphs before Ali (RA)?! Ali (RA) who is suppose to be the rightful heir, the brave and powerful, the one who loves Allah (SWT) and the Prophet (SAW), the one who is the custodian of knowledge, that he could not fight for his right? Could not fight for Allah’s cause in disgracing these companions who kept fleeing from battle and in your parochial understanding, who usurped the caliphate from him? In what light does these aforementioned portrays Ali (RA)? #Think! And even after Ali (RA) became the caliph, he did not reverse anything his predecessors did, nor did he make any remarks against their actions, but was full of praise and seeking blessings on them all. for example: It was narrated that Muhammad Bin Aqeel bin Abu Talib said:[b] Ali made a Sermon to us and he said: O people, Who was the bravest amongst the people? We said: You O Ameer al Mumineen, He(Ali) said: Rather, it is Abu Bakr as- Siddeeq, because on the day of Badr, we built the hut for the Messenger of Allah(saw) then we said: “Who will stand with him so that none of the polytheists will get close to him?” No one stood with him except Abu Bakr, who stood with his sword unsheathed, guarding the Prophet; every time anyone got close to him, Abu Bakr struck him with his sword. I saw the Messenger of Allah(saw), when Quraysh caught hold of him at the Ka’bah and started shaking him and saying: “You are the one who made the gods into one God.” By Allah, no one got close to him except Abu Bakr and at that time Abu Bakr had two braids. He started poking this one and pushing that one, saying: ‘Woe to you! Would you kill a man because he says my Lord is Allah(swt) when he has brought you proof from your Lord?” One of Abu Bakr’s braids was cut off, and ‘Ali said to his companions: I adjure you by Allah, which of the two men was better, the believer of the family of Pharaoh or Abu Bakr?’ The people kept quiet, then ‘Ali said: ‘By Allah, a day in the life of Abu Bakr is better than the believer of the family of Pharaoh; that man conceded his faith, and Allah praised him, but Abu Bakr offered his life and his blood for the sake of Allah.[/b](Al Mustadrak (3/67) He said SAHIH on the condition of Muslim and Imam al Thahabi Agreed with him.) [Ali bin Abi Talib, by Ali Muhammad Sallabi, vol 1, page 170] Ibn Abbas said: Ali ibn Abi Talib said to me: I do not know of any of the Muhajireen who did not migrate in secret, except Umar ibn al-Khattab. When he decided to migrate, he put on his sword, put his bow over his shoulder, picked up his arrows and carried his stick by his side. He went out to the Ka’bah, where a number of Quraysh were gathered in its courtyard, and he circumambulated the House seven times, at a leisurely pace. Then he went to the circles of people, one by one, and said to them, May your faces become ugly! Allah will only rub these noses in the dust. Whoever wants his mother to be bereft of him and his children to become orphan or his wife to become a widow, let him meet me behind this valley. Ali said: No one followed him except a few of those who were weak and oppressed. He taught them and told them about Islam, then he went on his way. [Saheeh at-Tawtheeq fee seerat al-Farooq, page 30] Where did you leave these narrations o AlBaqir? Why don’t you emulate Ali (RA)? Why do you always go against the sunnah of the Prophet (SAW) and the ahl-l-bayt? Are you sure you love the Prophet (SAW) and the ahl-l-bayt?! Other narrations that speaks of the bravery of Umar and his status in Islam are plentiful, examples are as follows: Abdullah Ibn Mas’ud (ra) said: “We have been powerful since the time ‘Umar accepted Islam.” [Sahih Bukhari (3684) (3863)] Abdullah ibn Masood said: We felt a sense of pride when Umar became Muslim, for we could not circumambulate the House(Kaabah) and pray, until Umar became Muslim. When he became Muslim, he fought them until they left us alone. Then we prayed and circumambulated the Kabah.(Fadail Sahabah, 1/344. Isnad Hasan] Ibn Masood said: Umar’s becoming Muslim was a victory, his migration was help, and his caliphate was a mercy. We could not pray or circumambulate the House (Kabah) until Umar became Muslim. When he became Muslim, he fought them until they left us alone and let us pray.(Ash Shaykhain Abu Bakr wa Umar, page 141) Suhayb ibn Sinan said: When Umar ibn al-Khattab became Muslim, Islam came out into the open and the call to Islam was made in public. We sat around the Kabah in circles, and we circumambulated the house and settled our scores with those who had persecuted us. We started to hit back.(At-Tabaqat al Kubra, 3/269. Sifat as-Safwah 1/274). These are but few, there are many more, all scattered in books of hadith and seerah. We do not believe these companions were infallible, they might have committed sins, but we have it on record that Allah (SWT) had forgiven them and granted them His mercy, Allah (SWT) says: “And the first to embrace Islam of the Muhajiroon (the Emigrants from Makkah) and the Ansar (the citizens of Al-Madeenah who helped the Muhajiroon) and also those who followed them exactly (in Faith). Allah is well-pleased with them as they are well pleased with Him. He has prepared for them Gardens under which rivers flow, to dwell therein forever. That is the supreme success.” [9:100] “Indeed, Allah was pleased with the believers when they gave their pledge to you (O Muhammad) under the tree. He knew what was in their hearts and He sent down calmness and tranquility upon them…” [48:18] Again Allah (SWT) taught us our responsibilities towards the forerunners of Islam, Allah (SWT) says: “And those who come after them say: ‘Our Lord! Forgive us and our brethren who have preceded us in Faith, and put not in our hearts any hatred against those who have believed.'” [59:10] Once you agree these companions of the Prophet (SAW) died as Muslims, and then you still make snide remarks about them, you have gone against the Qur’an and the teachings of the Prophet (SAW). So a quick question AlBaqir? DID UMAR (RA) NOT DIE A MUSLIM?! 6 Likes 3 Shares |
| Re: Umar Ibn Al-khattab: His Contributions In The Battles Of Islam by kazlaw2000: 12:48pm On Nov 15, 2015 |
Bro albaqir, pls refrain from finding faults with our fore bearers. Instead, you should be seeking forgiveness for them, just as is mentioned in suurah Hashr verse 10. Even if it was not a Sahabah, focusing a brother's misdeeds after his death is not good. To what end, I ask bro albaqir. Why not also write about the virtues of Umar(RA) that can also be found in those 'sunni' sources you are citing? 4 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Umar Ibn Al-khattab: His Contributions In The Battles Of Islam by Empiree: 12:50pm On Nov 15, 2015 |
sino: 2 Likes |
| Re: Umar Ibn Al-khattab: His Contributions In The Battles Of Islam by Empiree: 12:52pm On Nov 15, 2015 |
kazlaw2000: 1 Like |
| Re: Umar Ibn Al-khattab: His Contributions In The Battles Of Islam by MrOlai: 1:19pm On Nov 15, 2015 |
kazlaw2000: sino: Jazakumullah khaeran my Brothers! May Allah(SWT) in His mercy continue to guide and support you in all your endeavours. E ko ni mo apada si aburu Insha Allah (Amin). Sometimes, it's better we respond to him(Albaqir) perhaps he won't mislead others. He has severally referred to Abubakr, Umar and Uthman(R.A. Ajma'in) as evils, murderers, munafiqun, enemies and all sorts of unprintable names! That is why he and his cohorts rain curses on them year in year out! You can imagine the deceit in this thread he opened. Let's respond to him when we feel it's necessary and let's ignore him when we feel it's right. Once again, Jazakumullah khaeran! 5 Likes 3 Shares |
| Re: Umar Ibn Al-khattab: His Contributions In The Battles Of Islam by AlBaqir(m): 1:48pm On Nov 15, 2015 |
^Mr Sino, welcome. I've been expecting a die-hard like you. First, you failed woefully to review previous dialogues on this thread and appreciate the extent of discussion. You just jump like "mountain goat" to attack. Second, this thread is an examination of Umar's bravery, valour and steadfastness on battlefields. Indeed how can we examine all the so-called abundant ahadith [you talked and pride much of] about the "merits of Umar on his Strength, steadfastness etc" if we don't examine his contributions on the battlefield? His repeated running away and hidden cast huge doubt on those "merits" recorded for him. Interestingly, even all the Prophet of God were only merited after facing several tests and passed. How can that of our great Umar be different? Third, all efforts to derail this thread with foreign subject matters about Shi'i this Shi'i that are talk of another time. Lets strictly focus on the subject matter please : Umar cowardice nature on the battlefield VS ahadith on his merits of strength etc. Now to the main Point raised Albaqir and Kazlaw2000 have already discussed the fact that Allah forgave the runners of Uhud. No doubts about it. That was Uhud which never affect their fate in subsequent battles. Allah only forgive when you do not repeat crimes again, and again. At Hudaybiyyah (5A.H), another opportunity emerged to renew their steadfastness. Allah revealed: {Indeed, Allah was pleased with the believers when they gave the Bay'ah (pledge) to you (O Muhammad) under the trees, He knew what was in their hearts, and He sent down As-Sakinah (tranquillity) upon them, and He rewarded them with a near victory } [Quran 48:18] The allegiance to the Holy Prophet (saw) and revelation of the verse was met under certain conditions as the previous verse sheds more light on this: {Verily, those who give Bayah (pledge) to you (O Muhammad) they are giving Bayah to Allah. The hand of Allah is over their hands. Then whosoever breaks his pledge, breaks it only to his own harm, and whosoever fulfils what he has covenanted with Allah, He will bestow on him a great reward} [Quran 48:10] Sino, you see how the above holy verse kills your polemic misinterpretation of verse 18? A clear condition is attached. Umar ibn al-Khattab himself explained the purpose of this bay'ah: Imam Muslim records: Qutaibah Ibn Sa'id - Layth b. Sa'd and Muhammad b. Romh - AlLayth - Abi Zubair - Jabir who said: We were one thousand and four hundred on the Day of Hudaybiyah. We paid allegiance to him (the Prophet) and 'Umar was holding the latter's hand (when he was sitting) under the tree (called) Samura (to administer the oath to the companions). He said: We took oath to the effect that we would not flee, but we did not take oath to death. {Sahih Muslim vol.2, p.#900} So Mr Sino, what happened to our dear great Umar ibn al-Khattab after the Bay'ah: # At Khandaq (Ahzab), he hide himself. Umm Mu'minin Aisha exposed him and his cohorts # At Khaybar, he ran away. Soldiers attached to him called him coward # At Hunayn, he ran away claiming its Allah's command Allah's command is clear for runners (after forgiven them once): "O you who believe! When you meet those who disbelieve, in a battlefield, never flee from them. And whoever flees away on such a day - unless it be a stratagem of war, or to retreat to a troop, - he indeed has drawn upon himself wrath from Allah. And his abode is Hellfire, and worse indeed is that destination. {Surah Anfal: 15-16}. Sino, you can only clear Umar ibn al-khattab of these repeated great crime of running away by citing Sahih ahadith that his running away and hiding away from battlefield were all strategies or retreat to a troop, as Quran declare. If you cannot do this, all your ranting are nothing but filthy talk. Umar broke his Bay'a to Allah and His Prophet. |
| Re: Umar Ibn Al-khattab: His Contributions In The Battles Of Islam by AlBaqir(m): 2:06pm On Nov 15, 2015 |
kazlaw2000: I can only back down if you tell me the reasons why the Muhaddits of the Ahlu Sunnah documented those ahadith and athar and classified them as Sahih. To what end, just as you've ask? # Why cant I write on Umar's merits? You want me to write on his merit but you don't want criticism of him. Allah Himself criticise Sahabah in several places in the Quran. He rebuked and exposed the Munafiq among them and promised them Jahanam. He revealed their cunning nature of sweet talk and pleasing outlook. And He warned us never to be fooled by such character. # My brother the truth is that ALL the merits of Umar blatantly contradict his real actions. Both (the merits and real actions) are well documented as Sahih. So if you read or write about his merits alone, you have done a great injustice not read or write about his contradictory actions. That's why we salute companions whose actions confirmed their merits. Like I said earlier, Calamity of Thursday is next and you can ask yourself "Is somebody and group of people who accused the Prophet of RAVING MADNESS worth praising? |
| Re: Umar Ibn Al-khattab: His Contributions In The Battles Of Islam by MrOlai: 2:49pm On Nov 15, 2015 |
AlBaqir: |
The Difference Between Quran-based Islam And Hadith-based Practice / Taqiyya And Kitman: Are muslims permitted to lie? / What Is "Almajiri"? Someone Please Tell Me
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