After interacting with innumerable atheists (people who believe no god exists) and agnostic (people who believe that it's improbable to know of any god's existence), I have come to the conclusion that there is a very big loophole in atheism. It is the conventional assertion that God doesn't exist because he can't be seen.

"Why should I believe in God when I can't even see him" is a common defence put forward by apologists of atheism to uphold their disbelief in the existence of supernatural beings.


I want to use this ocassion, not to scold nor reprove atheists, but to question the veracity of this assertion. I want to ask atheists: is seeing the paramout requirement for believing?


I believe that most atheists are smart, so I respectfully put this before them- you don't have to see a thing before believing it. I have no intention of converting you to any faith (I don't have any); I just want to correct that defence. The world we live in comprises of the seen and unseen. And according to quantum physics, the unseen is far more powerful than the seen. Even Einstein's works on relativity were based on much imagination (things we can't see). When he talked about gravity bending spacetime, he dealt with things we can't see. Though the effects of some can be seen (like gravitational lensing and time dilation) the causative energy that wrought them is unseen. If you continue to say you don't believe in the supernatural because you don't see it, then you are not being fair. There are so many things you believe in that you don't see. Some are:
1. Gravity: you don't see it but you know it exists.
2. Infrared radiation: you don't see it but feel it when you stare at the sun;
3. Ultraviolect radiation: you don't see it, but it burns you your skin.
And many other like radio waves, inertia, (the debunked luminious ether), the propagation of sound waves, etc.
You may say, "well, we feel them, therefore we believe". Yes, the supernatural is not seen but felt. If you don't believe it, then what could make a ritualist steal the penis of a man? Do you see the "dark" energy he used? No. But does the victim feel the effect (as an instant spasm signalling that his genital is gone)? Yes. So also do what Christians call miracles work. If you believe gravity's existence, solely because you feel it; then why can't theists believe in the supernatural when they pray and get healed?

I don't think this takes away anything from you; but I believe there could be better points for disbelieving in the supernatural. Thanks.

Even so, let's look at dark energy and matter. Let's look at the other dimensions of space that are unseen but known by scientists to exist. In the long run, we find ourselves believing in many things we can't see.

Not just that. Abstracts like awareness, emotions, morality and intellect aren't physically evidenced inasmuch as everyone directly experiences them. All things exist in space and space is not physical.

So many unknown things are becoming known and all the stuff thought were hand work of a god is obviously getting stripped off. It was said a god created the world in 6 days but we now know better. And lets not forget the Bible god was a material god who walked in the garden to speak to Adam and even shut the door of the Noah's ark himself.

The physical is a tiny part of existence itself. In relation to humans,the humans body is physical and the humans eye can only see what it can. However the humans eye when exposed to infrared glasses or a micro scope can even see more. It shows the human body isn't superior to other animals like dogs,who have better sense of smell than humans,an Eagle who has a better range of sight than humans, Cats who can see better at night than humans. These are part limitations of the humans physical body.

Religion has mixed up science with fiction. Stuff that are clearly a result of the manipulation of energy fields are labelled miracles. I don't want to go into all that now.

ifeness:

The physical is a tiny part of existence itself. In relation to humans,the humans body is physical and the humans eye can only see what it can. However the humans eye when exposed to infrared glasses or a micro scope can even see more. It shows the human body isn't superior to other animals like dogs,who have better sense of smell than humans,an Eagle who has a better range of sight than humans, Cats who can see better at night than humans. These are part limitations of the humans physical body.

.

Dont worry bro . Aliens did it ! They came from another planet and made all these possible . But who made theirs possible ? And who made those of the ones who made theirs possible ? I mean even a crew member of your alien ship does not agree with you . Ouchie !

johnydon22:


It depends on what you call God...!!! If by God you are shifting the goal post to Ifeness extra-terrestrial theory of seeding the earth, then those are Aliens which in turn remains an unproven hypothesis and also their own origin becomes a subject of question.

Oshovie:
Even so, let's look at dark energy and matter. Let's look at the other dimensions of space that are unseen but known by scientists to exist. In the long run, we find ourselves believing in many things we can't see.

Shut up with your ill logic and lies.

As usual, it is the half- thinking crowd that make the most noise.

Again, let me shout out to the mo.rons and ignorants; that gravity , ultra-violet and infra-red radiations, are not seen but all have precise mathematical corollaries.
As such, they and their predictable effects can be tested for, measured, mathematically caliberated, and even simulated.
Daahhhh !!

Other dimensions of space, dark matter, etc are theoretical . Scientists speculate about these based on observations of the behaviour of subatomic particles of matter, which again, have precise Mathematical corollaries.

Now, over to you m.oron.
If you're so sure that your magic sky or space fairy exists, fine.
Now, kindly Give us a theoretical mathematical corollary, an equation from which we might deduce the presence of and the mathematical value of god in our universe.

If you can't do that, then I suggest you keep your primitive stone age beliefs to your tiny mind, and never again venture to peddle ignorance, half-think and ill logic in a public forum.

plaetton:


Shut up with your ill logic and lies.

As usual, it is the half- thinking crowd that make the most noise.

Again, let me shout out to the mo.rons and ignorants; that gravity , ultra-violet and infra-red radiations, are not seen but all have precise mathematical corollaries.
As such, they and their predictable effects can be tested for, measured, mathematically caliberated, and even simulated.
Daahhhh !!

Other dimensions of space, dark matter, etc are theoretical . Scientists speculation about these based on observations of the behaviour of subatomic particles of matter, which again, have precise Mathematical corollaries.

Now, over to you m.oron.
If you're so sure that your magic sky or space fairy exists, fine.
Niw, kindly Give us a theoretical mathematical corollary, an equation from which we might deduce the presence of and the mathematical value of god in our universe.

If you can't do that, then I suggest you keep your primitive stone age beliefs to your tiny mind, and never again venture to peddle ignorance, half-think and ill logic in a public forum.

Relax plaetton.

KingEbukasBlog:


Dont worry bro . Aliens did it ! They came from another planet and made all these possible . But who made theirs possible ? And who made those of the ones who made theirs possible ? I mean even a crew member of your alien ship does not agree with you . Ouchie !

You do realize Yahweh and Jesus are also aliens. Their home is called 'Heaven' and they live in another universe.

UyiIredia:
Not just that. Abstracts like awareness, emotions, morality and intellect aren't physically evidenced inasmuch as everyone directly experiences them. All things exist in space and space is not physical.

Lol.
Funny , you forgot to include IMAGINATION in your list of abstracts.
Selective amnesia, perhaps


How many times ?
How many times ?

You guys are very funny.

No wonder countless numbers of humanity go to church every Sunday to have the same old lies repeated to them for all their entire lives.
I guess in your universe, the motto is : "Just Keep Repeating It, No Matter How Many Times You're Corrected ".

Let me, for the millionth time, educate you that Awareness, Emotions, Intellect, and Morality Do Indeed have mathematical, and therefore physical corollaries.

Let's take alcohol for example , a chemical compound with a known molecular geometrical structure and molecular weight.
In simple terms, Alcohol bonds with your neural cells and affects the electrical activities, impedes their performance, which in turn affects your awareness, your emotions, your intellectual output, and of course , your moral compass is swayed while under the influence of alcohol.

And to show further proof of the mathematical corollaries between chemical molecules and your so-called abstracts, the greater the mathematical quantity of alcohol consumed, the more profound are the effects on you Awareness, Your Emotions, your Intellectual output , and of course, your Moral Compass.

My point is , that somehow, the Tooth fairy, ..pardon me, I mean god, is the only in the only thing in the universe that does not have a mathematical corollary.

You know why
Because, it resides in the realm of imagination, not just the creative types of imagination, but the very narrow and shallow type that emanates from the limbic region of the human brain.

Do you finally get it ?

Don't ever let me repeat this lesson again.

musKeeto:

Relax plaetton.

My brother,

"Spare the rod and spoil the child".

When will they even be true to themselves that god is their faith, not their science ?

If you don't scold and flog these guys, Amadioha forbid, they might go out and teach such convoluted logic to innocent kids.

Our mental landscapes are already polluted with so much nonsense.

Imagine if guys like these are teachers.

plaetton:


Lol.
Funny , you forgot to include IMAGINATION in your list of abstracts.
Selective amnesia, perhaps


How many times ?
How many times ?

You guys are very funny.

No wonder countless numbers of humanity go to church every Sunday to have the same old lies repeated to them for all their entire lives.
I guess in your universe, the motto is : "Just Keep Repeating It, No Matter How Many Times You're Corrected ".

Let me, for the millionth time, educate you that Awareness, Emotions, Intellect, and Morality Do Indeed have mathematical, and therefore physical corollaries.

Let's take alcohol for example , a chemical compound with a known molecular geometrical structure and molecular weight.
In simple terms, Alcohol bonds with your neural cells and affects the electrical activities, impedes their performance, which in turn affects your awareness, your emotions, your intellectual output, and of course , your moral compass is swayed while under the influence of alcohol.

And to show further proof of the mathematical corollaries between chemical molecules and your so-called abstracts, the greater the mathematical quantity of alcohol consumed, the more profound are the effects on you Awareness, Your Emotions, your Intellectual output , and of course, your Moral Compass.

My point is , that somehow, the Tooth fairy, ..pardon me, I mean god, is the only in the only thing in the universe that does not have a mathematical corollary.

You know why
Because, it resides in the realm of imagination, not just the creative types of imagination, but the very narrow and shallow type that emanates from the limbic region of the human brain.

Do you finally get it ?

Don't ever let me repeat this lesson again.

Sadly, you will have to repeat the lesson again and again, these guys never learn! When it comes to religion, the brainwashing/indoctrination blocks all avenue for them to reason.

Plaetton, don't make me say, "I told you so"

plaetton:


Shut up with your ill logic and lies.

As usual, it is the half- thinking crowd that make the most noise.

Again, let me shout out to the mo.rons and ignorants; that gravity , ultra-violet and infra-red radiations, are not seen but all have precise mathematical corollaries.
As such, they and their predictable effects can be tested for, measured, mathematically caliberated, and even simulated.
Daahhhh !!

Other dimensions of space, dark matter, etc are theoretical . Scientists speculate about these based on observations of the behaviour of subatomic particles of matter, which again, have precise Mathematical corollaries.

Now, over to you m.oron.
If you're so sure that your magic sky or space fairy exists, fine.
Now, kindly Give us a theoretical mathematical corollary, an equation from which we might deduce the presence of and the mathematical value of god in our universe.

If you can't do that, then I suggest you keep your primitive stone age beliefs to your tiny mind, and never again venture to peddle ignorance, half-think and ill logic in a public forum.

You don't need to become vile and uncouth. One other thing about atheists is that they are always bitter for no good reason. Even when the topic is presented in all civility, they still can't appreciate it. Obviously, atheists have more psychological problems than just disbelieving in God.
For the records,dark energy, the luminious ether, dark matter DON'T have precise mathematical proofs for their existence. Study your physics properly: over 70 per cent of postulates in quantum physics are based on mere assumptions and estimations.

And to base all your belief on mathematical collolaries, is quite a pity. We live in a mystical world. Even the great physicist Albert Einstein asserted that there were dimensions beyong space and time that can be seen (and posibly properly studied). Studying the unseen is a very dicey branch of science. Hence science is full of claims and counter-claims. The funny thing is that the fanatics of atheism are never at the fore front of these research.
And it's infantile to believe everything you read in scince. The Big Bang and evolution thoeries belived by atheists only show how pathetic their belief system is.

Oshovie:


You don't need to become vile and uncouth. One other thing about atheists is that they are always bitter for no good reason. Even when the topic is presented in all civility, they still can't appreciate it. Obviously, atheists have more psychological problems than just disbelieving in God.
For the records,dark energy, the luminious ether, dark matter DON'T have precise mathematical proofs for their existence. Study your physics properly: over 70 per cent of postulates in quantum physics are based on mere assumptions and estimations.

And to base all your belief on mathematical collolaries, is quite a pity. We live in a mystical world. Even the great physicist Albert Einstein asserted that there were dimensions beyong space and time that can be seen (and posibly properly studied). Studying the unseen is a very dicey branch of science. Hence science is full of claims and counter-claims. The funny thing is that the fanatics of atheism are never at the fore front of these research.
And it's infantile to believe everything you read in scince. The Big Bang and evolution thoeries belived by atheists only show how pathetic their belief system is.

My friend, let tell you my problem.

Simple ignorance is okay. We are all guilty of it one way or another.
It is also okay to offer opinion or speculate on a subject, as long as you acknowledge it as such.

Complex ignorance is another thing.

Faith and science do not belong in the same realm.

Only id.iots come on a public to use science to argue faith or use faith to argue science.

By so doing, you expose your ignorance of science, being so eager to convince, rather than to make sensible points.

For the records, dark matter, luminous ether(), dark energy( ) Belong in the far flung realm of scientific speculation. I did not say that they had mathematical corrolaries.
What I said was that they are hypotheses and theories derived observation of subatomicparticles and through complex mathematical modelling.

Can we say the same for the Tooth fairy,.. I mean, god ?

The notion of God does not even qualify to be a hypothesis, but really belongs to the realm of imagination, HUMAN imagination.

And to prove what I mean by human imagination, you just confirmed it by saying that " we live in a mystical world ".
;DD
You and whom?
And what is the name of your mystical world?
How many light years is it from Earth?

KingEbukasBlog:


Dont worry bro . Aliens did it ! They came from another planet and made all these possible . But who made theirs possible ? And who made those of the ones who made theirs possible ? I mean even a crew member of your alien ship does not agree with you . Ouchie !

One particle makes up everything. One particle spinning faster than the speed of light. Thoughts/Imagination is never under the wheel of time. This is advance physics you may not know. Stop screaming aliens wherever you see my posts. Pay attention and learn to understand what I say before misquoting me everywhere.

plaetton:

My friend, let tell you my problem.

Simple ignorance is okay. We are all guilty of it one way or another.
It is also okay to offer opinion or speculate on a subject, as long as you acknowledge it as such.

Complex ignorance is another thing.

Faith and science do not belong in the same realm.

Only id.iots come on a public to use science to argue faith or use faith to argue science.

By so doing, you expose your ignorance of science, being so eager to convince, rather than to make sensible points.

For the records, dark matter, luminous ether(), dark energy( ) Belong in the far flung realm of scientific speculation. I did not say that they had mathematical corrolaries.
What I said was that they are hypotheses and theories derived observation of subatomicparticles and through complex mathematical modelling.

Can we say the same for the Tooth fairy,.. I mean, god ?

The notion of God does not even qualify to be a hypothesis, but really belongs to the realm of imagination, HUMAN imagination.

And to prove what I mean by human imagination, you just confirmed it by saying that " we live in a mystical world ".
;DD
You and whom?
And what is the name of your mystical world?
How many light years is it from Earth?

I have no intention of conversing with you anymore. You are obviously not emotionally mature for a civil discourse. Arguing with you will only lead to an on-line obloquy or contretemps. You really need to grow up and learn how to interact with people on a civil level. It tells on your level of emotional intelligence (a trait that can never be found in atheists). Your ideals have been formed, though pathetic. I raised several points in my original post which you ignored. You talked about emotions having mathematical values; how the increase in the consumption thereof affects emotions-that was your mathematical proof (mathematics without figures and formulae. What's the mathematical formalae for emotions?). How possible is that, when E=mc2 still has failling in mordern chemistry! Gosh! My dear, that's called pseudo-science (and it is the achor of modern scientific philosophy) You are the one distorting facts. It could work on a layman but not someone who understands scientific nomenclature.
You don't need to accept what I postulate, neither did you have to take personal. No matter how many points I make you will never be humble to consider. So just relax. Take care.

PS: I'd advise you to take some time to develop your social skills: you really lack emotional maturity. You must learn how to communicate in public, putting your emotions aside.
Thanks.

musKeeto:

You do realize Yahweh and Jesus are also aliens. Their home is called 'Heaven' and they live in another universe.

Nah. Jesus was human. If God and Jesus area aliens then so is everyone who's dead.

You need to make up your mind about whether God can or cannot be seen.

Oshovie:


I have no intention of conversing with you anymore. You are obviously not emotionally mature for a civil discourse. Arguing with you will only lead to an on-line obloquy or contretemps. You really need to grow up and learn how to interact with people on a civil level. It tells on your level of emotional intelligence (a trait that can never be found in atheists). Your ideals have been formed, though pathetic. I raised several points in my original post which you ignored. You talked about emotions having mathematical values; how the increase in the consumption thereof affects emotions-that was your mathematical proof (mathematics without figures and formulae. What's the mathematical formalae for emotions?). How possible is that, when E=mc2 still has failling in mordern chemistry! Gosh! My dear, that's called pseudo-science (and it is the achor of modern scientific philosophy) You are the one distorting facts. It could work on a layman but not someone who understands scientific nomenclature.
You don't need to accept what I postulate, neither did you have to take personal. No matter how many points I make you will never be humble to consider. So just relax. Take care.

PS: I'd advise you to take some time to develop your social skills: you really lack emotional maturity. You must learn how to communicate in public, putting your emotions aside.
Thanks.

Again, you fall my hand.

2 glasses of rum is twice the alcohol as 1 glass of rum, and would have twice the effect on your neural chemistry than 1 glass of rum.
Not so ?

Is that enough mathematics for you ?
Do you need an equation to go with that ?

This is why I am here to MOCK.

You delude only yourself if you think you have made one single sensible argument.

Your arguments are much too childish, and I must say, annoying half-baked, to even fully engage you.
That's why I MOCK.

Here, we do not let any slowpoke peddle half-baked nonsense as fact.

Now, run along to your mystical world.

plaetton:

Again, you fall my hand.

2 glasses of rum is twice the alcohol as 1 glass of rum, and would have twice the effect on your neural chemistry than 1 glass of rum.
Not so ?

Is that enough mathematics for you ?
Do you need an equation to go with that ?

This is why I am here to MOCK.

You delude only yourself if you think you have made one single sensible argument.

Your arguments are much too childish, and I must say, annoying half-baked, to even fully engage you.
That's why I MOCK.

Here, we do not let any slowpoke peddle half-baked nonsense as fact.

Now, run along to your mystical world.

Ebuka is really teaching them how to be bold in making completely ridiculous assertions.

If their God was as real as gravity, then the world religionists assumed he created wouldnt be half as disorganized at it is today.

How can God be real when you are here day and night trying to prove his existence. how many times have anyone argued if gravity, air or love was real?

How long shall we continue in this back and forth arguments about our supposed creator?

"Everything must have a creator, therefore the world has a creator and this creator is God" How you guys dont find this assumption ridiculous beats my imagination. he worst part is they dont just stop in assuming a creator... they know he is almighty, kind, omini everything, vengful, forgiven and unforgiven, all because of some jewish documents. they even go further... "i woke up this morning, it is God, I went to toilet peacefully, it is God. I nearly had an accident, it is God."

How dear you compare a God in your mind, a God every religion had created their own version, a God which, like every other form of imagination... how can you compare an idea to gravity?

yet you are free to doubt of gravity exists and i will just ask you to throw a stone up and see with your eyes, what happens to it.

so since you believe in things unseen, do you believe i have a black and red ten headed dog in my wardrobe? do you believe me when i say this dog is the reason i woke up this morning?

Again, if the bible (a jewish document) is the word of God, why is koran (an arab document) not the word of God?

UyiIredia:


Nah. Jesus was human. If God and Jesus area aliens then so is everyone who's dead.

God is a misunderstanding from humans. They are known as ETs,only that it is hard for Christians to accept that Alien visitors are the gods of the ancient holy books,including the bible. And we have lots of examples

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtBfBGCaABU

frank317:


Ebuka is really teaching them how to be bold in making completely ridiculous assertions.

If their God was as real as gravity, then the world religionists assumed he created wouldnt be half as disorganized at it is today.

How can God be real when you are here day and night trying to prove his existence. how many times have anyone argued if gravity, air or love was real?

How long shall we continue in this back and forth arguments about our supposed creator?

"Everything must have a creator, therefore the world has a creator and this creator is God" How you guys dont find this assumption ridiculous beats my imagination. he worst part is they dont just stop in assuming a creator... they know he is almighty, kind, omini everything, vengful, forgiven and unforgiven, all because of some jewish documents. they even go further... "i woke up this morning, it is God, I went to toilet peacefully, it is God. I nearly had an accident, it is God."

How dear you compare a God in your mind, a God every religion had created their own version, a God which, like every other form of imagination... how can you compare an idea to gravity?

yet you are free to doubt of gravity exists and i will just ask you to throw a stone up and see with your eyes, what happens to it.

so since you believe in things unseen, do you believe i have a black and red ten headed dog in my wardrobe? do you believe me when i say this dog is the reason i woke up this morning?

Again, if the bible (a jewish document) is the word of God, why is koran (an arab document) not the word of God?

Seriously, and he opens a thread to showcase his ignorance, with the title " The greatest flaw of atheism " .

I just wonder How I can make an argument about the greatest flaw in not believing in the toothfairy.

frank317:

Ebuka is really teaching them how to be bold in making completely ridiculous assertions.

At least he's bold.

frank317: If their God was as real as gravity, then the world religionists assumed he created wouldnt be half as disorganized at it is today.

The world is disorganized with gravity ain't it. Complain about gravity when trekking up a hill or after a plane crash you like.

frank317: How can God be real when you are here day and night trying to prove his existence. how many times have anyone argued if gravity, air or love was real?

God is Love 1 John 4:16. God is the mind behind the universe, take it or leave it.

frank317: How long shall we continue in this back and forth arguments about our supposed creator?

Till the kingdom of God is established and a couple thousand years is infinitesimal compared to that.

frank317: "Everything must have a creator, therefore the world has a creator and this creator is God" How you guys dont find this assumption ridiculous beats my imagination. he worst part is they dont just stop in assuming a creator... they know he is almighty, kind, omini everything, vengful, forgiven and unforgiven, all because of some jewish documents. they even go further... "i woke up this morning, it is God, I went to toilet peacefully, it is God. I nearly had an accident, it is God."

Frank317 is an atheist, it is God.

Acts 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

frank317: How dear you compare a God in your mind, a God every religion had created their own version, a God which, like every other form of imagination... how can you compare an idea to gravity?

Imagination is more important than knowledge - Albert Einstein. Imagination creates what you good or bad, true or false.

frank317: yet you are free to doubt of gravity exists and i will just ask you to throw a stone up and see with your eyes, what happens to it.

She na d word 'gravity' pull d stone down abi. By d way. Wetin dey suspend planet earth in space ?

frank317: so since you believe in things unseen, do you believe i have a black and red ten headed dog in my wardrobe? do you believe me when i say this dog is the reason i woke up this morning?

I can draw a red and black ten headed dog in a wrfrobe. I can sculpt a red and black ten headed dog in a and I can make aa but GaROBOTIC black and red ten headed dog. But God hasn't given me the power to animate it as a living object. But science could plausibly make a red and black teten-headed dog. Scientists have created live 2 headed dogs before. They cut they head of a dog and attached it to another living dog.

frank317: gain, if the bible (a jewish document) is the word of God, why is koran (an arab document) not the word of God?

Do Muslims confirm their religion with as much signs and wonders as Christians do ? Do they cast out demons, heal the sick and raise the dead ? How many people became Muslims because the PBUH appeared to them in a dream ? Odo. As Jacob's destiny was greater than Esau Christianity far supercedes Islam.

plaetton:

My brother,

"Spare the rod and spoil the child".

When will they even be true to themselves that god is their faith, not their science ?

If you don't scold and flog these guys, Amadioha forbid, they might go out and teach such convoluted logic to innocent kids.

Our mental landscapes are already polluted with so much nonsense.

Imagine if guys like these are teachers.

Actually our teachers are exactly like them. Hey are you on twitter, would love to folloe you and that jonnyboy.

Oshovie:
After interacting with innumerable atheists (people who believe no god exists) and agnostic (people who believe that it's improbable to know of any god's existence), I have come to the conclusion that there is a very big loophole in atheism. It is the conventional assertion that God doesn't exist because he can't be seen.

"Why should I believe in God when I can't even see him" is a common defence put forward by apologists of atheism to uphold their disbelief in the existence of supernatural beings.


I want to use this ocassion, not to scold nor reprove atheists, but to question the veracity of this assertion. I want to ask atheists: is seeing the paramout requirement for believing?


I believe that most atheists are smart, so I respectfully put this before them- you don't have to see a thing before believing it. I have no intention of converting you to any faith (I don't have any); I just want to correct that defence. The world we live in comprises of the seen and unseen. And according to quantum physics, the unseen is far more powerful than the seen. Even Einstein's works on relativity were based on much imagination (things we can't see). When he talked about gravity bending spacetime, he dealt with things we can't see. Though the effects of some can be seen (like gravitational lensing and time dilation) the causative energy that wrought them is unseen. If you continue to say you don't believe in the supernatural because you don't see it, then you are not being fair. There are so many things you believe in that you don't see. Some are:
1. Gravity: you don't see it but you know it exists.
2. Infrared radiation: you don't see it but feel it when you stare at the sun;
3. Ultraviolect radiation: you don't see it, but it burns you your skin.
And many other like radio waves, inertia, (the debunked luminious ether), the propagation of sound waves, etc.
You may say, "well, we feel them, therefore we believe". Yes, the supernatural is not seen but felt. If you don't believe it, then what could make a ritualist steal the penis of a man? Do you see the "dark" energy he used? No. But does the victim feel the effect (as an instant spasm signalling that his genital is gone)? Yes. So also do what Christians call miracles work. If you believe gravity's existence, solely because you feel it; then why can't theists believe in the supernatural when they pray and get healed?

I don't think this takes away anything from you; but I believe there could be better points for disbelieving in the supernatural. Thanks.

The notion of seen and unseen things with your comparison of quantum mechanics, gravity, and dark matter with supernatural presence are different issues. The formal being that they are still at its hypothetical stage and are not taken as scientific facts, the observations are waiting patiently for more evidence and prove. Gravity on it own is measurable and falsifiable.


The later (god/supernatural) is still unseen and lacks evidence and prove but people still believe it so strong as absolute truth.

You are creating your own scientific method by asserting that any unseen thing can't be taken as a scientific fact. Pluto is one of our dear planetary bodies that have a complete revolution round the sun in some couple of thousands of years. We've never witnessing even a single full rotation but it is a scientific fact.

I alway tell people to just be agnostic about everything or ideas until the time it is proven to be factual so that one can have good reasons and justifications to start believing.

Mind you that those scientific observations are not unseen supernatural know unknowns but more of unseen mundane phenomena.

Theists claimed to be god detectors and know the mind of the presumed unseen god about masturbation, sex, abortion etc which i can describe as being out of the realm of unseen but seen phenomenon. Scientists never know the actual behavior of dark matter, quantum mechanics etc and can't say anything for sure about it for now.

UyiIredia:

If God and Jesus are aliens then so is everyone who's dead.

How did you come to this conclusion?

UyiIredia:


At least he's bold.

Yes he is duhhhh. Bold in asserting that his imaginary creator is real with nothing to show for it.

The world is disorganized with gravity ain't it. Complain about gravity when trekking up a hill or after a plane crash you like.

gravity is doing his work as gravity

what is your God's work as the creator

God is Love 1 John 4:16. God is the mind behind the universe, take it or leave it.

God is not real, take it or leave it.
again, how many times have you argued if gravity exists

Till the kingdom of God is established and a couple thousand years is infinitesimal compared to that.

ok... continue dreaming.

Frank317 is an atheist, it is God.

Acts 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Uyiredia went to toilet and had a strong poo, it is God

Ok.. your verse suggests your God is hiding. You actually dont have anything to say do you?

Imagination is more important than knowledge - Albert Einstein. Imagination creates what you good or bad, true or false.

nice, at least you are honest to accept that your God is just your imagination.

She na d word 'gravity' pull d stone down abi. By d way. Wetin dey suspend planet earth in space ?

No na God pull the stone down... and you god is carrying planet earth on his head

I can draw a red and black ten headed dog in a wrfrobe. I can sculpt a red and black ten headed dog in a and I can make aa but GaROBOTIC black and red ten headed dog. But God hasn't given me the power to animate it as a living object. But science could plausibly make a red and black teten-headed dog. Scientists have created live 2 headed dogs before. They cut they head of a dog and attached it to another living dog.

whats this? answer the question

Do Muslims confirm their religion with as much signs and wonders as Christians do ? Do they cast out demons, heal the sick and raise the dead ? How many people became Muslims because the PBUH appeared to them in a dream ? Odo. As Jacob's destiny was greater than Esau Christianity far supercedes Islam.

of course, you jewish book is the right one, while arabic book is the wrong one. but remember, the reason why you think their religion is wrong is the same reason why they think your own religion is wrong.

frank317:


gravity is doing his work as gravity

what is your God's work as the

What evidence is there for gravity by the way. If objects fall to the ground do you see a thing called gravity attracting them.

frank317:
God is not real, take it or leave it.
again, how many times have you argued if gravity exists

Explain how gravity exists. Don't mock or evade the , I'm getting at a point, just explain.

frank317:
Uyiredia went to toilet and had a strong poo, it is

You are beginning to get it. God is in everything from sh*t to the human body to corpses. It's not offensive. Sh*t made Otunba Gadaffi , you are poorer than him. Sh*t can make fuel and be have pure water filtered off of it. Now to relate it to scripture and science.

1 John 1:5
This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

And physics let's us know that light is the material that accounts for one of the fundamental forces of nature: electromagnetic energy

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_interaction

I find it interesting the range of light is infinite, like God.

frank317:
Ok.. your verse suggests your God is hiding. You actually dont have anything to say do you?

No. It suggests God transcends the material world the way the human mind dominates nature. And precisely because he transcends and created it he doesnt need to materially manifest as a person, the universe is his manifestation and Jesus is his avatar. But creating a material being like the flying spaghetti monster is easy for God.

frank317:
nice, at least you are honest to accept that your God is just your imagination.

Not my imagination. God is the imagination that reality eg this physical universe is based on.

frank317:
of course, you jewish book is the right one, while arabic book is the wrong one. but remember, the reason why you think their religion is wrong is the same reason why they think your own religion is wrong.

It's not that black and white. There are some truths in Islam but they miss out on the fact of Jesus death and resurrection. Honestly, think about it. Islam can't lay the same claim to miracles Christianity has, even pagans are better at them at magic.

Besides, there are good and bad scientific hypotheses, do you dismiss science becauase some of its theses are wrong.

thou I believe in God,this is rather dumb