Henry240:


Cities, towns, villages... Whatever, they are all "built up areas".

Therefore they'll be no major fighting in villages.

bidexiii:


With gear that looks like military SF OPS guy's?

They do bodyguard for state governors and celebs, but they are not armed with weapons

Henry240:


The Fightings in Kidal, Timbucktu, Gao and other Malian cities were what exactly?


Most of the engagements the Nigerian military has had with insurgents have been FIBUA and in close quarters, street-level figthings in urban areas and villages.

I'm really not in the mood to engage you in something you are clearly ignorant of.

As for the un-necessary abuse & gang-up on Agaugust, I find it rather unfortunate. Agaugust made important...... very important intelligent observations.

African militaries currently engaged in operations are not fighting an enemy in wide open fields, the engagements have all been street-level. We do not face a "Russia style" threat, I don't see why the training exercise would mirror that of an enemy you face in wide open fields.


Amani Africa II is in response to the lackluster deployment of African troops to Mali. The enemy in Mali fought in built up areas. We as Africans should learn to do things right, especially in the first instance, as we do not have the money or resources to afford making a mistake.

We are missing the point here, AMANI was an exercise not training. FIBUA training is solely the responsibility of the contributing nations.

I also share the opinion of the south Africans that MOST insurgent battles happen in the bushes or open fields where they have their bases.

The situation with boko haram that were engaged in settlements should be attributed to the Nigerian military failures to keep them out of these areas.

And even at the time they were engaged in built areas only small units with artillery and air support were used to push them out while Tanks and IFV were used to engage them in the open.

If the aim of the force is followed through as per rapid deployment to avoid scenarios where militants will not be allowed to seize territories, then I don't see anything wrong with the exercise.

My point is that AU has taken a bold step in making this happen and in my opinion should be applauded.

Perhaps this is just the first phase and corrections with inputs will be made in subsequent ones before it's fully operational.

MikeCZAR:
Therefore they'll be no major fighting in villages.

That is were the actual Fighting is done. Konduga for example was attacked 13 times.

Henry240:


That is were the actual Fighting is done. Konduga for example was attacked 13 times.

I wouldn't consider that FIBUA because BH were never allowed in. They were engaged in the open.

I like the arguments though. Someone can learn a thing or two

stillchris:


I wouldn't consider that FIBUA because BH were never allowed in. They were engaged in the open.

I like the arguments though. Someone can learn a thing or two

"Which is you won't consider that as FIBUA?"......... Konduga na bush?

The town is a built up area, they fought the insurgents there, same as in Bama, Mubi, Marte, Maiduguri, Gombe.

MikeCZAR:
No major urban fighting.

Ineffectiveness of the Nigerian armed forces. If challenged BH won't fight down to bare hands defending a town when challenged by a force similar to the one during Amani.

This is just illogical reasoning.
It is impossible for you to postulate "If challenged BH won't fight down to bare hands defending a town"
-Yet these are the same boko haram who want 72 virgins in paradise and are willing to die anywhere-whether in an urban setting or "bush"
-We have consistently seen boko haram engage NA in cities/towns/villages/LGA/units/districts- whatever u want to call it. Maiduguri, konduga, damasak, banki, baga etc in urban combat.
Gwoza is a town and was retaken from boko haram

In the same breathe, you claim it is down to the "ineffectiveness" of "Nigeria armed forces"
Yet we have seen major armies, infact all american coalitions being unable to take towns and cities from terrorists for prolonged periods of time.
Kunduz, Sinjar, kandahar etc is still fresh in the mind as well.
I will assume it was also down to the ineffectiveness of western armies and western-trained armies as well ?
i don't really get your locus standi for the point you are trying to make...

Henry240:


"Which is you won't consider that as FIBUA?"......... Konduga na bush?

The town is a built up area, they fought the insurgents there, same as in Bama, Mubi, Marte, Maiduguri, Gombe.

.

My argument was as regards the complaint of that AMANI exercise should have been held in built up areas.

I believe the aim of the ATF is taking the fight to the enemy before they metamorphose to seizing territories.

I don't see anything wrong with the scenario that was provided.

When it comes to defending or fighting in urban areas, i believe the contributing armies should have been trained for that.

A cohesive organization of these different structures is the first step which they have achieved

stillchris:


.

My argument was as regards the complaint of that AMANI exercise should have been held in built up areas.

I believe the aim of the ATF is taking the fight to the enemy before they metamorphose to seizing territories.

I don't see anything wrong with the scenario that was provided.

When it comes to defending or fighting in urban areas, i believe the contributing armies should have been trained for that.

A cohesive organization of these different structures is the first step which they have achieved

My argument follows the legitimate concerns raised by Agaugust on the quality of the exercise at Amani II.


In terms of actual operations would African countries such as Nigeria learn anything new, i highly doubt that. However in terms of cohesion with other partner nations from other African Blocs, sure. The exercise provides us the opportunity to work with the South-Africans, Angolans, Namibians, Algerians, Ugandans, Kenyans et al.


The essence of Amani Africa is to better prepare African forces to face any challenge they would require military force and to respond to these challenges in the shortest possible time.


I do not feel in practical African combat scenarios that we would require............. infact given the sort of conflicts we have faced over the past 15 years, no scenario would play out like the exercise demonstration at the end of Amani II. Mali, N.E Nigeria insurgency, the Insurgency in Egypt sinai, Uganda, Somalia insurgency, not even against M23.

You hold exercises like that if there is an actual threat of "little green men". Sure the demonstration is good for the cameras and threads like this, but in actual real african combat I doubt it.

I think we should tailor our exercises to deal with the threats we face. I don't think Amani Africa II delivers on operational requirements, what it actually delivers on is with "interoperability" between partner nations.


Amani Africa should be a yearly exercise.

Amani Africa II

Nigeria COIN

Henry240:
Amani Africa II

Do you know which country that soldier holding the bullpup is from? Their soldiers seem really well equipped

gottfried21:

Do you know which country that soldier holding the bullpup is from? Their soldiers seem really well equipped

Angola my guess

gottfried21:

Do you know which country that soldier holding the bullpup is from? Their soldiers seem really well equipped

That's a Singapore Kinetics SAR-21. The guys in the group holding "normal" rifles are from Kenya. I don't know the country of the guy carrying the SAR-21.

Henry240:


My argument follows the legitimate concerns raised by Agaugust on the quality of the exercise at Amani II.


In terms of actual operations would African countries such as Nigeria learn anything new, i highly doubt that. However in terms of cohesion with other partner nations from other African Blocs, sure. The exercise provides us the opportunity to work with the South-Africans, Angolans, Namibians, Algerians, Ugandans, Kenyans et al.


The essence of Amani Africa is to better prepare African forces to face any challenge they would require military force and to respond to these challenges in the shortest possible time.


I do not feel in practical African combat scenarios that we would require............. infact given the sort of conflicts we have faced over the past 15 years, no scenario would play out like the exercise demonstration at the end of Amani II. Mali, N.E Nigeria insurgency, the Insurgency in Egypt sinai, Uganda, Somalia insurgency, not even against M23.

You hold exercises like that if there is an actual threat of "little green men". Sure the demonstration is good for the cameras and threads like this, but in actual real african combat I doubt it.

I think we should tailor our exercises to deal with the threats we face. I don't think Amani Africa II delivers on operational requirements, what it actually delivers on is with "interoperability" between partner nations.


Amani Africa should be a yearly exercise.

which is exactly what we have been saying

Your job is to train your men how to fight
Amani's role is to train them to fight together

And yes, considering that Nigeria does not conduct training operations of this size, I would say your men learnt allot (like how to use Chaka).

And yes, combat would play out like that - unless you never expect to ever attack the enemy ever.

Patchesagain:


which is exactly what we have been saying

Your job is to train your men how to fight
Amani's role is to train them to fight together

And yes, considering that Nigeria does not conduct training operations of this size, I would say your men learnt allot (like how to use Chaka).

And yes, combat would play out like that - unless you never expect to ever attack the enemy ever.

Nigeria did not learn anything from Amani. There is nothing new to learn. Are you r3tarded? ......... Nigeria's C2 infrastructure includes a state-of-the-art COBR facility, what can be more advanced than that?

Since 2011 the Nigerian Navy has been operating an advanced Digital C2
system
"the installation of a new surface
surveillance system, under its Regional Maritime
Awareness Capability initiative. The surveillance system,
which is a United States Navy-inspired coastal surveillance
programme, uses an automatic identification system and
ground-based radar and sensors to enhance awareness of
maritime activities".


According to NN authorities, such technology has become
necessary due to the need for timely and accurate
dissemination of information during operations. The NN says such application of information and
communications technology will definitely enhance
command and control and ICT will play a very important
role in tackling some contemporary challenges.
The system also assists NN authorities in enforcing




The Nigerian military conducts more regular trainings than any country in Africa. Trainings are regularly scheduled(Kontagora, Jaji, Kachia) to deal with Nigeria's and Africa's contemporary threats, size does not matter you fool.

No, combat does not play out like that. As we've seen in Nigeria, there are multiple occasions where you have to take on the enemy in towns, and cities or defend a towns, cities or villages.




* Pic related, Nigerian Navy's state of the art Digital C2 center installed by Davoize Networks Nigeria Ltd.

Henry240:


Nigeria did not learn anything from Amani. There is nothing new to learn. Are you r3tarded? ......... Nigeria's C2 infrastructure includes a state-of-the-art COBR facility, what can be more advanced than that?

Since 2011 the Nigerian Navy has always operated an advanced Digital C2
system
"the installation of a new surface
surveillance system, under its Regional Maritime
Awareness Capability initiative. The surveillance system,
which is a United States Navy-inspired coastal surveillance
programme, uses an automatic identification system and
ground-based radar and sensors to enhance awareness of
maritime activities".


According to NN authorities, such technology has become
necessary due to the need for timely and accurate
dissemination of information during operations. The NN says such application of information and
communications technology will definitely enhance
command and control and ICT will play a very important
role in tackling some contemporary challenges.
The system also assists NN authorities in enforcing




The Nigerian military conducts more regular trainings than any country in Africa. Trainings are regularly scheduled(Kontagora, Jaji, Kachia) to deal with Nigeria's and Africa's contemporary threats, size does not matter you fool.

No, combat does not play out like that. As we've seen in Nigeria, there are multiple occasions where you have to take on the enemy in towns, and cities or defend a towns, cities or villages.




* Pic related, Nigerian Navy's state of the art Digital C2 center installed by Davoize Networks Nigeria Ltd.

1. That is not a battlefield management system, you do not operate one nor do you know how to.
2. You do not hold regular brigade sized maneuvers - size does matter
3. Amani Africa's role was not to teach your men how to do their job, it was to teach them how to fight TOGETHER

It's your job to make sure your men know how to FIBUA or fight in various terrain types

And again, I would like to point out that you are basing your opinion on a PRESS DEMONSTRATION (3 hours out of a 3 week exercise) and not THE ACTUAL EXERCISE ITSELF

What is your problem? You think all the generals of Africa made this huge mistake and that only you and August know the truth?

*what is more advanced than your naval surveillance system? link-ZA and the Chaka battle management system!

God bless the Nigerian Armed Forces

Henry240:


That is were the actual Fighting is done. Konduga for example was attacked 13 times.

Yes attacked.

Just like Maiduguri the insurgents are easily repelled and fall back to the bushes to live and fight another day. Nigerian military lacks a rapid response capability similar to the Zimbabwean then Rhodesia force fire.

rugged7:


This is just illogical reasoning.
It is impossible for you to postulate "If challenged BH won't fight down to bare hands defending a town"
-Yet these are the same boko haram who want 72 virgins in paradise and are willing to die anywhere-whether in an urban setting or "bush"
-We have consistently seen boko haram engage NA in cities/towns/villages/LGA/units/districts- whatever u want to call it. Maiduguri, konduga, damasak, banki, baga etc in urban combat.
Gwoza is a town and was retaken from boko haram

In the same breathe, you claim it is down to the "ineffectiveness" of "Nigeria armed forces"
Yet we have seen major armies, infact all american coalitions being unable to take towns and cities from terrorists for prolonged periods of time.
Kunduz, Sinjar, kandahar etc is still fresh in the mind as well.
I will assume it was also down to the ineffectiveness of western armies and western-trained armies as well ?
i don't really get your locus standi for the point you are trying to make...

Remember the war is in Nigeria's backyard.

The insurgents which didn't have a capability to take cities built a force able to fight the Nigerian military and defeat them at times allowing cities to fall them. They built that force under the nose of west Africa perceived regional power

Other insurgent groups around the world build their force mostly on the limitless supplies of weapons from their toppled government.

Illogical reasoning again
ANC built up weapons in south africa under the noses of the south african army able to engage SA- a perceived apartheid superpower, IRA built up weapons and took over neighborhoods under the nose of the british army, Algerian militants took up swathes of land under the algerian army etc etc etc
It's still difficult to make out your locus standi for these arguments short of spite...
I see you chaps from down under just love abuses, slights and fact misrepresentations just for the hell of it.
I'll just leave u all to play ur little games...

MikeCZAR:
Remember the war is in Nigeria's backyard.

The insurgents which didn't have a capability to take cities built a force able to fight the Nigerian and defeat them at times allowing cities to fall them. They built that force under the nose of west African perceived regional power

Other insurgents groups around the world build their force mostly on the limitless supplies of weapons from their toppled government.

rugged7:
Illogical reasoning again
ANC built up weapons in south africa under the noses of the south african army able to engage SA- a perceived apartheid superpower, IRA built up weapons and took over neighborhoods under the nose of the british army, Algerian militants took up swathes of land under the algerian army etc etc etc
It's still difficult to make out your locus standi for these arguments short of spite...
I see you chaps from down under just love abuses, slights and fact misrepresentations just for the hell of it.
I'll just leave u all to play ur little games...

ANC was never a major insurgent force in rsa - most of the action was done by the common man on the street

You cannot compare civil unrest to what BH is doing

For example, which towns did the ANC capture and hold? Which parts of rsa saw full scale military action? Which parts of Rsa was the army expelled from? Did ANC have tanks/arty and technicals? When did the ANC put the army into retreat?

You want to compare boko to a south African conflict? Compare them to PLAN during the border war - and again, we set a world wide example in that conflict (in military terms, don't bring politics into it)

also Henry120- augustine confirms Nigeria has no datalink

[reffering to what should be purchased from india] Tactical data link for all 3 armed forces to be on one network of secure and real time communication.
https://beegeagle./2015/10/24/nigerian-troops-dislodge-boko-haram-from-kerenowa-chikun-gudu-5-brigade-destroy-over-20-well-fortified-camps/

So that is another thing your blokes would have been learning about

Henry240:


Nigeria did not learn anything from Amani. There is nothing new to learn. Are you r3tarded? ......... Nigeria's C2 infrastructure includes a state-of-the-art COBR facility, what can be more advanced than that?

Since 2011 the Nigerian Navy has been operating an advanced Digital C2
system
"the installation of a new surface
surveillance system, under its Regional Maritime
Awareness Capability initiative. The surveillance system,
which is a United States Navy-inspired coastal surveillance
programme, uses an automatic identification system and
ground-based radar and sensors to enhance awareness of
maritime activities".


According to NN authorities, such technology has become
necessary due to the need for timely and accurate
dissemination of information during operations. The NN says such application of information and
communications technology will definitely enhance
command and control and ICT will play a very important
role in tackling some contemporary challenges.
The system also assists NN authorities in enforcing




The Nigerian military conducts more regular trainings than any country in Africa. Trainings are regularly scheduled(Kontagora, Jaji, Kachia) to deal with Nigeria's and Africa's contemporary threats, size does not matter you fool.

No, combat does not play out like that. As we've seen in Nigeria, there are multiple occasions where you have to take on the enemy in towns, and cities or defend a towns, cities or villages.




* Pic related, Nigerian Navy's state of the art Digital C2 center installed by Davoize Networks Nigeria Ltd.

Henry you are trying to compare apples and oranges here.

rugged7:
Illogical reasoning again
ANC built up weapons in south africa under the noses of the south african army able to engage SA- a perceived apartheid superpower, IRA built up weapons and took over neighborhoods under the nose of the british army, Algerian militants took up swathes of land under the algerian army etc etc etc
It's still difficult to make out your locus standi for these arguments short of spite...
I see you chaps from down under just love abuses, slights and fact misrepresentations just for the hell of it.
I'll just leave u all to play ur little games...

MK was never a military threat. It is widely known that the apartheid government leading up to the democratic elections sponsored violence.

Also remember MK was unbanned.

Henry240:


Nigeria did not learn anything from Amani. There is nothing new to learn. Are you r3tarded? ......... Nigeria's C2 infrastructure includes a state-of-the-art COBR facility, what can be more advanced than that?

Since 2011 the Nigerian Navy has been operating an advanced Digital C2
system
"the installation of a new surface
surveillance system, under its Regional Maritime
Awareness Capability initiative. The surveillance system,
which is a United States Navy-inspired coastal surveillance
programme, uses an automatic identification system and
ground-based radar and sensors to enhance awareness of
maritime activities".


According to NN authorities, such technology has become
necessary due to the need for timely and accurate
dissemination of information during operations. The NN says such application of information and
communications technology will definitely enhance
command and control and ICT will play a very important
role in tackling some contemporary challenges.
The system also assists NN authorities in enforcing




The Nigerian military conducts more regular trainings than any country in Africa. Trainings are regularly scheduled(Kontagora, Jaji, Kachia) to deal with Nigeria's and Africa's contemporary threats, size does not matter you fool.

No, combat does not play out like that. As we've seen in Nigeria, there are multiple occasions where you have to take on the enemy in towns, and cities or defend a towns, cities or villages.




* Pic related, Nigerian Navy's state of the art Digital C2 center installed by Davoize Networks Nigeria Ltd.

Please ask for information or ask us to clarify stuff if you don't understand.

This is ridiculous.

Humanitarian support Training School at Embakasi Barracks- the school where all Kenya UN peace Keepers must attend for pre-deployment training before any UN peacekeeping mission. The School has different built-up areas including Amani Village where peacekeepers are put through different scenarios that are likely to occur in a mission, from controlling rowdy youth(civil disorder) to dealing(negotiating) with a for or friendly rebel turned hostile in a refugee or IDP camp.. the schools offers different training for different levels of peacekeeping missions including for NGOs, mission commanders, battalion, platoon commanders and troops themselves

DOCUMENTARY ABOUT THE PEACE SUPPORT SCHOOL -IPSTS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBe_lzCCD1k

Patchesagain:
also Henry120- augustine confirms Nigeria has no datalink

[reffering to what should be purchased from india] Tactical data link for all 3 armed forces to be on one network of secure and real time communication.
https://beegeagle./2015/10/24/nigerian-troops-dislodge-boko-haram-from-kerenowa-chikun-gudu-5-brigade-destroy-over-20-well-fortified-camps/

So that is another thing your blokes would have been learning about

Are you drunk or just plain silly?

Is Augustine in the military or is he the military that confirms they can share real-time data/video with their COBR facility in Abuja?

Patchesagain:
also Henry120- augustine confirms Nigeria has no datalink

[reffering to what should be purchased from india] Tactical data link for all 3 armed forces to be on one network of secure and real time communication.
https://beegeagle./2015/10/24/nigerian-troops-dislodge-boko-haram-from-kerenowa-chikun-gudu-5-brigade-destroy-over-20-well-fortified-camps/

So that is another thing your blokes would have been learning about

You quote Beegeagle when it suits your wish, but when it does not, you say Beegeagle is a mere blog and not a reliable source

Is Augustine a Nigerian armed forces General to know all types of communication technology the military has?

snydergp1st:


Henry you are trying to compare apples and oranges here.

point is, Nigeria operates a Digital C2 system which provides real-time tactical information, surveillance/tracking and networking capabilities which allows the Nigerian Navy to better protect her EEZ.

MikeCZAR:
Please ask for information or ask us to clarify stuff if you don't understand.

This is ridiculous.

You are silly!

Point remains that Nigeria learnt nothing new from Amani II. As the systems used in the exercise are/ or similar with systems they already field right here at home.

MikeCZAR:


Amani was an exercise not training.

Definition of the United States Department of Defense military term "exercise "

A military maneuver or simulated wartime operation involving planning, preparation, and execution. It is carried out for the purpose of training and evaluation. It may be a multinational, joint, or single-Service exercise, depending on participating organizations.

http://www.militaryfactory.com/dictionary/military-terms-defined.asp?term_id=1960

AMANI is training, exercise is training, stop misleading people all over Africa, please .


The world powers are moving away from AMANI style conventional warfare training when they deploy troops for the current types of threat the world is facing, that AMANI order of battle and engagement formations/tactics will fail in Mogadishu or Maiduguri when El-Shabab or Boko Haram strikes in urban warfare guerrilla style among hundreds of thousands of civilians.

USA, Russia, France, Britain, have all learnt that lesson and the US Army is now re-training tens of thousands of troops to acquire battle craft for fighting the new type of unconventional threats facing the world today, and Africa included.

Watch the battle theatres used in Flintlock 2015 exercise, poor Chad provided both open desert and sub-urban built up theatres for the exercise, that tells you they as the host have experience of African needs and they feel responsibility to provide excellent battle theatres of different types.

That is what we are saying, relevant training matching the current type of threats prevailing in Africa today. Let us not mislead the whole of Africa just because we don't want our country to be criticized for not doing all it should do as a host, the peace of Africa is more important than personal nationalistic ego.

PHOTOS : EXERCISE FLINTLOCK 2015 IN CHAD