Henry240:


"What is this one even saying?"........ Are you having high temperature again?


We are talking abouth the ZSU-23-2 mounted on Nigerian army Igirigi pitched against the 30mm armed Mbombe.


My pick again, I'll go with the Igirigi.

No - you said you choose battle tested over "paper stats"

Thus, you will choose t72 over K2 black panther? Correct?

Henry240:


There armoured vehicles are always so close to each other. A bomb feast for any insurgent.

Ig it works againest masses arty and mortar fire from cuban and angolan formations i am sure it can handle what some insurgents can throw at it

And fyi - what is a small frontage and massing of fire?

agaugust:


LOL....easy target for Boko Haram barrage of RPGs coming from all directions. For a Boko Haram 105 mm artillery shell, it's feasting time.

Did that happen in angola?

agaugust:


Oh, you now agree it was old Mirage F1....LOL....now show proof of time date stamp or narration, or else shutt da fvck up with ya fraud !

So you didnt read what he said?

agaugust:


30 year old obsolete welded steel junk, ugly like Medusa !

More battle tested than anything in your arsenal

So, since henry says battle testing is the most important thing he will choose it over anything you have

agaugust:


ZSU-23 also fires Armour Piercing shells and we have them aplenty in our ordnance stores.

Citation needed

lionel4power:


even if you lie on nairaland.. history does not lie.

[b] The Cubans, together with Angolan and SWAPO forces advanced
toward Namibia. This advance exposed the insecurity and
vulnerability of the South African troops in northern Namibia. Such
was this vulnerability that a senior South African officer said, “Had
the Cubans attacked [Namibia] they would have over-run the
place. We could not have stopped them.” This was further
compounded by South African debacles at the end of June 1988 at
Calueque and Tchipia, where the South Africans suffered serious
defeats, which were described by a South African newspaper as “a
crushing humiliation.” Cuba also achieved air supremacy. Facing
the new powerful force assembled in southern Angola and having
lost control of the skies, the South Africans withdrew from Angola.


In southern Africa, the battle has attained legendary
status. It is considered the debacle of apartheid: a defeat of the
South African armed forces that altered the balance of power in
the region and heralded the demise of racist rule in South Africa.
Cuito Cuanavale decisively thwarted Pretoria’s objective of
establishing regional hegemony (a strategy which was vital to
defending and preserving apartheid), directly led to the
independence of Namibia and accelerated the dismantling of
apartheid.[/b]
http://www.cuba-solidarity.org.uk/news/article/2875/paying-the-debt-to-africa-on-the-40th-anniversary-of-cubarsquos-operacioacuten-carlota

the attack had failed thanks to a valiant
defense effort by Cuban and Angolan troops, and the South Africans
had lost 50 aircraft, 47 tanks and hundreds of men.

http://www.rhodesia.nl/cuito.htm

please take a moment to read SA crushing defeat by Cuba... thank you

Hahahaha

Here we go again

This old chesnut

"We never beat the south africans in battle but we could totally have invaded namibia"

"South africans never launched a ground attack against quito but we will say they did so that everyobe forgets we got slaughtered at lomba river"

Into the trash it goes

lionel4power:


even if you lie on nairaland.. history does not lie.

[b] The Cubans, together with Angolan and SWAPO forces advanced
toward Namibia. This advance exposed the insecurity and
vulnerability of the South African troops in northern Namibia. Such
was this vulnerability that a senior South African officer said, “Had
the Cubans attacked [Namibia] they would have over-run the
place. We could not have stopped them.” This was further
compounded by South African debacles at the end of June 1988 at
Calueque and Tchipia, where the South Africans suffered serious
defeats, which were described by a South African newspaper as “a
crushing humiliation.” Cuba also achieved air supremacy. Facing
the new powerful force assembled in southern Angola and having
lost control of the skies, the South Africans withdrew from Angola.


In southern Africa, the battle has attained legendary
status. It is considered the debacle of apartheid: a defeat of the
South African armed forces that altered the balance of power in
the region and heralded the demise of racist rule in South Africa.
Cuito Cuanavale decisively thwarted Pretoria’s objective of
establishing regional hegemony (a strategy which was vital to
defending and preserving apartheid), directly led to the
independence of Namibia and accelerated the dismantling of
apartheid.[/b]
http://www.cuba-solidarity.org.uk/news/article/2875/paying-the-debt-to-africa-on-the-40th-anniversary-of-cubarsquos-operacioacuten-carlota

the attack had failed thanks to a valiant
defense effort by Cuban and Angolan troops, and the South Africans
had lost 50 aircraft, 47 tanks and hundreds of men.

http://www.rhodesia.nl/cuito.htm

please take a moment to read SA crushing defeat by Cuba... thank you

Hahahaha

Here we go again

This old chesnut

"We never beat the south africans in battle but we could totally have invaded namibia"

"South africans never launched a ground attack against quito but we will say we did so that everyobe forgets we got slaughtered at lomba river"

Into the trash it goes

agaugust:


That war was not on your homeland territory, let's see one day how SANDF will cope with 20,000 Boko Haram brutal killers (20,000 is already about half your army o!) spread all over 100 cities and towns living among innocent civilians in your country including 10 secret terror camps in Kruger park bush land, then we will see how you easily fight a cancer that is inside your own stomach !

SANDF has not been battle tested by Nigerian standards.

Keep driving around town in MRAP vehicles taking photos of your half dead HIV sick army with 30 battalions of your troops already weakened by HIV virus before any war even starts
.

Boko haram only ammounts to about 4000 men

We have proven or COIN skills in Angola

And again, respond to his point - you said our formations will get destroyed by enemy arty because they are close together. He asked why that never happened in Angola

Answer the question

agaugust:


Same way France destroyed 8 terrorists before they massacred 130 people in Paris this month ..... Fool....Pretoria will collapse under such unconventional attack ! Fool, comparing conventional Angola Cuban war with asymmetric war that even USA army is using PMC to learn how to fight in Iraq and Afghanistan
.

So the war against PLAN was not asymetrical?

So you havent asked south africans to come to nigeria to teach you about how we fought them?

iblawi:
I love this description of a rugby game. Very funny.

Playing cricket and rugby is what they do. It doesn't even help them protect there borders.

You want border stats again?

Its sad that you think well controlled combined arms warfare is funny - its how wars are fought

jln115:

1. cuba-solidarity ?? Seems like a reputable and objective source, doesnt it?

2. Your second source is 100% correct, the Cuban victory was as mythical as a Unicorn!!

1 mumu stop challenging sources.

2. as usual you didn't read the source... or u didn't understand the sarcasm underneath it.. SA had a purported pyrrhic victory.

patches689:


Hahahaha

Here we go again

This old chesnut

"We never beat the south africans in battle but we could totally have invaded namibia"

"South africans never launched a ground attack against quito but we will say we did so that everyobe forgets we got slaughtered at lomba river"

Into the trash it goes

well it's all in the history book... your massive failure and blunder is elegantly documented everywhere.

lionel4power:
well it's all in the history book... your massive failure and blunder is elegantly documented everywhere.

The history books says it was a stalemate. SA alone fighting against Russia, Cuba and Angola.

patches689:


- Nigerians cannot fit atgms on the vehicale
- No, it means 23mm of kinetic energy

30mm > 23mm

Double the Fire-power. Dual 23mm is significantly better and more reliable than a single 30mm.


A Nigerian version can carry ATGMs.

jln115:

Sarcasm?? uhm?? so in that case you agree with Patches that a 30mm cannon will be more effective than a dual 23mm cannon....Or was your sarcasm at such an advanced level that you fvcked yourself with it to?

Nope, a 30mm cannot be better than a dual 23mm.

patches689:

No - you said you choose battle tested over "paper stats"
Thus, you will choose t72 over K2 black panther? Correct?

No,I'll choose a dual barrel 23mm over a 30mm.

lionel4power:
1 mumu stop challenging sources.

2. as usual you didn't read the source... or u didn't understand the sarcasm underneath it.. SA had a purported pyrrhic victory.

1. Implying sources cannot be biased

2. For us to claim victory there would have to have been a battle - there was no battle

patches689:


Ig it works againest masses arty and mortar fire from cuban and angolan formations i am sure it can handle what some insurgents can throw at it

And fyi - what is a small frontage and massing of fire?

What?

lionel4power:
well it's all in the history book... your massive failure and blunder is elegantly documented everywhere.

No, its not documented by any respected sources

There was no battle of quito - we blee the obly bridge across the river and sat back and shelled it into oblivion

Unless you are unfamiliar witg our tactics in Angola, we raided we never tried to take and hold cities

Henry240:


Double the Fire-power. Dual 23mm is significantly better and more reliable than a single 30mm.


A Nigerian version can carry ATGMs.

1. Citation needed for atgms
2. Stabilized unmanned 30mm is better - fact

Henry240:


Nope, a 30mm cannot be better than a dual 23mm.

According to what?

patches689:

1. Citation needed for atgms 2. Stabilized unmanned 30mm is better - fact

Who says the 23mms on the Igirigi aren't stabilised?
a version of Igirigi can carry ATGMs, nothing to it.

Henry240:


Who says the 23mms on the Igirigi aren't stabilised?

a version of Igirigi can carry ATGMs, nothing to it.

Because of the gun you put on it

Who says you can put atgms on it?

I see yet again we have reached the point of the argument where all you can do is say the same thing over and over again without any ability to substantiate your claims

Henry240:


No,I'll choose a dual barrel 23mm over a 30mm.

No you said you would choose the igugybugyg because it is battle tested and combat testing beats superior vehical capabilities

Thus you would choose the t72 over the k2?

Correct?

Brah, igiririrgug is on the same level as the LAVs we were building in ww2

agaugust:


30 year old obsolete welded steel junk, ugly like Medusa !

Yet its still better then what you have, and please don't mention your half dozen BTR-4.

patches689:


Because of the gun you put on it

Who says you can put atgms on it?

I see yet again we have reached the point of the argument where all you can do is say the same thing over and over again without any ability to substantiate your claims

Because of what gun we put on it?

Who says we can't put ATGMs on them?

patches689:


The comparison is "in general" - and in general the mbombe is better armored in every single way meaning it is the better vehical

The fact that you refuse to post any technicle deatils for the igirururur shows us that you know it is inferior and are only interested in argument for the sake of argument

Igirigi was never meant to have an MRAP chassis, same way Ratel does not have it. Vehicles are built for specific purposes.

Igirigi specs has been posted many times here by Henry since last year. You have this stinking smelly habit of asking people to repeat comments for you after they have posted it again and again.....I remember you just last month asking me again to post proof of ATR-42 Surveyor radar.

You must be the most retaaaaarded breed in your family ancestry.

Henry240:

Who says the 23mms on the Igirigi aren't stabilised?
a version of Igirigi can carry ATGMs, nothing to it.

What version?
You still haven't shown us the level of ballistic protection your Igirigi?

patches689:


Citation needed

Read Eben Barlows military profile in SADF infantry, he is a basic rifle man.