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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Politics / Foreign Affairs / Turkey Shoots Down Russian Jet Near Syrian Border (72757 Views)
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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Jet Near Syrian Border by mazeltov(m): 1:25pm On Nov 25, 2015 |
TjNoobsaibot:You are right, One of the reason why ban was placed on sales of Raptor is because America value that Hardware, as I see it, they even prefer to sell lightning to Natos than for them to sell that Raptor. And for Lightning, it is just an expensive metal which has come under heavy criticism. You can imagine a 5th generation jet that can't survive against growler, it didn't even win a dog fight with F-16. But I once read it somewhere that Lockheed are still developing the jet so it is not fully operational, who knows? F35 is a good idea but not a good project but if they can solve its major, it's gon' be the most advanced fighter jet. |
Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Jet Near Syrian Border by MrDude: 1:37pm On Nov 25, 2015 |
TjNoobsaibot: LOL at the bolded Obioma Exactly my thought. Russia has clearly stated that its bombing campaign will continue along Syria-Turkey border. Russia will probably shoot down couple of Turkish Jet, maybe blow a Turkish Ship, etc... One thing is sure though the consequences will be many for Turkey |
Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Jet Near Syrian Border by Nobody: 1:51pm On Nov 25, 2015 |
mazeltov: They are not gonna sell the Raptor, They built just 195. The lightning was built by an aerospace industry team led by Lockheed Martin. The criticism is based on the fact that lockheed produced, designed and tested 'em all. I read somewhere the amount spent makes it impossible to cancel. They will come through i believe. You know, i been thinking maybe they can make a 5th gen jet outta Warthog with upgrades. It'll make Moskova and Beijing shiver |
Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Jet Near Syrian Border by Nobody: 2:09pm On Nov 25, 2015 |
MrDude: There is more to Erdogan's actions. No one hits Russia in such manner. Let's see how it plays out. |
Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Jet Near Syrian Border by mazeltov(m): 2:29pm On Nov 25, 2015 |
TjNoobsaibot:sure they will. Raptor also experienced some technical problems during its flight test |
Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Jet Near Syrian Border by Nobody: 2:49pm On Nov 25, 2015 |
mazeltov: No doubt. 2016 is gonna be very interesting or not |
Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Jet Near Syrian Border by Appleyard(m): 3:50pm On Nov 25, 2015 |
mazeltov:you are so funny at times that i cant help laughing out loud. So now we should forget about the F22 stealth capability which your likes previously championed as the real deal, lol? What makes the F22 '' invisible '' at the first place? Okay, lets put that aside like you said. The main problem as I see it is that even assuming the F-22 was totally invisible at any distance, the weapons it uses are not, and can be dealt with and the Russians have many systems with optical backup. Pantsir-S1 (deployed with S400) for instance can engage targets up to 15a0km altitude and has an optical guidance channel that could deal with an F-22, and three other radar channels that could deal with weapons released by the F-22. If a flight of four F-22s tried to engage a target protected by a battery of 6 Pantsir-S1s the SAMs would be able to engage 24 targets at a time, so even if all four aircraft released 5 weapons each, the battery would be able to deal with all the targets and the aircraft at once. The high speed of the missiles of the Pantsir-S1 system means that those targets would be rapidly engaged and a follow up engagement for another 24 targets would probably allow 2-3 engagements before any weapons from the F-22s could reach their targets... which means they probably wont. Clearly one flight of 4 F-22s is not good enough in this case, so more would be needed. Odds are there will be more Pantsir-S1 batteries than there will be F-22s. And when it comes to ups and downs triffles between the big boys in real action, there aren't many things the S-400 needs to protect that are more than 600km across (of which i expect people like you to know to be just the official declared range). Long wave radar should be able to detect it at much greater ranges and would be accurate enough in terms of tracking to direct a large number of fighters towards any F-22s in Russian airspace. Note any F-22s would need to operate without support aircraft like tankers and Awacs as they would be easy kills. This limits range and operational performance of the F-22s. Every SDB they carry is one less AMRAAM the local fighter defences have to deal with, and with modern pod based jammers and also ground based jammers I would think the F-22s would need as many as they could carry. Regarding the deals, i was refering to the F35, that was why i posted a link to that effect, and it is interesting how you tacitly dodged the realisation that phased radars and increasingly wicked EWs and S+C capabilities continue to make stealth techs obsolete. The F22 is more problematic than it's acclaimed glory. If it doesnt kill the pilot first, it cant engage in dogfights, cant climb, spend much like 72hours on the ground after a mission, etc, etc. Some of the reasons the US is shelving conteneous production of these two stealth crafts are stated below. http://m.liveleak.com/view?i=7ad_1402064679 Now, which is one is 4th and 5th generational steahiness? did you remember you did mentioned 4th generational stealth fighter on this thread, or do i need to repost it here? I sincerely believe you made an error on this, just as you erroneously stated that the RAF shot down a Russian plane in Syria. We all do at times, so chill. 1 Like |
Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Jet Near Syrian Border by telexfree1: 6:38pm On Nov 25, 2015 |
mazeltov: Lol. Fountain of knowledge indeed. The highest altitude ever attained in a jet aircraft is 37. 65km set by test pilot Fedotov in a Mig 31 Foxhound. When you reel off figures like 850km, do u realize some one might actually believe you ? 2 Likes 1 Share
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Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Jet Near Syrian Border by Nobody: 7:29pm On Nov 25, 2015 |
NairaMinted:Irrelevant quote ever. Stop using hallucinogen, my friend! |
Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Jet Near Syrian Border by Nobody: 7:33pm On Nov 25, 2015 |
NairaMinted:What evidence have you to prove all moderate rebels are trained by almighty USA? You haven't been able to make sense for once in any of your posts yet you are here to defend Russia And the Russian Ayatollah, Putin! |
Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Jet Near Syrian Border by Nobody: 7:34pm On Nov 25, 2015 |
Emzyme:Seriously, I have no complete idea of what you are talking about in this post. |
Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Jet Near Syrian Border by Nobody: 7:43pm On Nov 25, 2015 |
Emzyme:Yes, I do have a brain. I know it is better than yours, an empty head indeed! Nevertheless, I am not supporting Saudi Arabia and its dangerous and primitive laws. I look forward to the day there would be great reforms for that country and return to democracy. Despite that they have a constitution based on that archaic beheading of people who commit crime and the same can be said of Iran. There is no reason, whatsoever, to use that to justify the war in Syria. The large part of the people ask for almighty USA help while Assad refuses to change because he is dictatorial and ignoring the international demands according to what the people want. You are the blockhead here, dude! |
Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Jet Near Syrian Border by Nobody: 7:50pm On Nov 25, 2015 |
Tkester:Oh,please...! Give it up! You ghetto c**k sucker! |
Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Jet Near Syrian Border by Tkester: 8:08pm On Nov 25, 2015 |
all4naija: |
Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Jet Near Syrian Border by Nobody: 8:11pm On Nov 25, 2015 |
Tkester:It is like your parents incest you all the time. The family of inbreeds! |
Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Jet Near Syrian Border by mazeltov(m): 9:39pm On Nov 25, 2015 |
I am always busy so don't expect quick reply from me - and I don't have enough space to fully enlighten you but I will try and touch every point you've made. Appleyard:Lwkmd!! You are damn funny!! Optical back up for Under bay missile carrier system which is used to conceal Radar homing missile and protect/reduce heat-induced missiles on Raptor ? With AN/APG series, a multifunctional interception radar and a solid state active electronically scanned Array (AESA) radar which compose transmission and receiving of modules ejected from phased array radar on SAM is installed on Raptor, it can make instanteneous beam stearing in an order of tens of nanoseconds and can perform MTI (Moving Threat Information) as ground target moves with respect to stationary clutter. Or you want to use you optical guidance for a Synthetic Aperture Radar which is a radar installed to magnify ground objects. Need I remind you that Raptor is also equipped with AN/ALR-99 which provides sustainability awaremess of the ground radar threat which includes fasr scanning superhet receivee, superhet controller and analyses processor. Appleyard:discarded!! Now listen attentively - Pantsir' detection range is 30km and tracking Range is 24km, missile range of 20km and Pantsir is a short range SAM which uses 2 stages solid fuel rocket motors and its max speed is 1000m/s(mach3) http://www.army-technology.com/projects/Pantsyr/ stop typing what you know nothing about - Short range SAM can never attain 1500km as you have claimed, please make researches before commenting. Pantsir can only engage low flying object/missile moving within its range, it can never shot Raptor read this and enmacipate yourself from the illusion of Pantsir http://www.military-today.com/missile/Pantsyr.htm and don't reply me until you read the contents of the links please. Appleyard:Yes you are right on this , the higher the weight the lower the distance. That's why countries use to deploy jets in their base around the world so that it will be easier to strike any target. You don't expect Russia to fly a jet from Ukraine to Nigeria when they have Carrier that can deploy them. Understood? Appleyard:No!! Point of correction. Loaded weapons has nothing to do with jamming and you can only jam a system that has no countermeasure. A jet like Raptor uses Supression of Enemy Air Defence (SEAD) weapon and this makes it off jamming. You need to catch up on jamming system. Appleyard:dodge? Lol. Listen, I don't engage in a crossed argument. If you want me to enlighten you no F-35 then tell me. If you want us to argue about F-35, then tell me Appleyard:raptor can't dogfight? A supersonic jet can't climb? I give up on you. Appleyard:I have enlightened you on this in the morning. Go back to the post and re-educate yourself. Appleyard:Yes I made an error, I wanted to type how American shot Russian MIGs 15, it was a typo err. |
Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Jet Near Syrian Border by Tkester: 10:12pm On Nov 25, 2015 |
all4naija: |
Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Jet Near Syrian Border by Appleyard(m): 11:05pm On Nov 25, 2015 |
Emzyme: |
Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Jet Near Syrian Border by Appleyard(m): 11:07pm On Nov 25, 2015 |
Emzyme:Ameeeeeeennnnnn! |
Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Jet Near Syrian Border by Appleyard(m): 11:21pm On Nov 25, 2015 |
NairaMinted:It is only a terrorist sympathiser that doesnt accept that the Turkish govt is a terrorist sponsoring govt. |
Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Jet Near Syrian Border by Appleyard(m): 11:45pm On Nov 25, 2015 |
telexfree1:Really |
Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Jet Near Syrian Border by Appleyard(m): 1:57am On Nov 26, 2015 |
mazeltov: I take no pleasure in ranting... The Truth About the Useless F-35 & F-22 http://m.liveleak.com/view?i=7ad_1402064679 Lockhead Martins will produce the plane, only them will test them in a predetermined expected results, until the above shock them that matters. And Not everyone is taking the crap propaganda. The left-wing CDI believes the F-22’s performance will be subpar, though having seen their circulated presentations, DID believes their arguments as presented contain a number of important holes as well as some valid points. F-16 program analyst Pierre Sprey and author James Stevenson argued that the F-22’s fuel:weight ratio, wing loading, and acceleration are inferior to existing fighters. They stated that peacetime exercises are designed with predetermined outcomes in mind and can’t be relied on, and question the lethality of air-air missiles based on their war record. Sprey and Stevenson also question the F-22’s stealth on the grounds that its own radar will give it away when used, adding that the unreliability of IFF (Identification, Friend or Foe) has generally meant that combats are fought at close ranges where stealth is largely negated. They contend that numbers, acceleration, fast changes in energy state, and a 360 degree cockpit view count for more in such situations – and find the F-22 wanting on all counts. As if not enough, none of its internally-carried strike weapons are powered, and radar-killing missiles like the AGM-88 HARM/AARGM aren’t even on the drawing board as options for review. Important additions like wider field side-looking radar arrays and helmet-mounted sights will not appear until and unless upgrades are funded beyond Increment 3.2. So much for your enlightenment. On Pantsil and S400, they are integrated systems, with the formal meant to take care of the plane's fired weapons, while the latter's duty is the plane itself. And you are still struggling to come to terms with their official declared range to their actual range, ditto the Kalibr. I see.. It cant be shot down just like they said in Serbia, and i wondered were you got that 850km altitude from. Argt. its well bro. Cya 1 Like |
Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Jet Near Syrian Border by Empiree: 2:45am On Nov 26, 2015 |
Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Jet Near Syrian Border by HomoDroid(m): 6:21am On Nov 26, 2015 |
Why is everyone focused on Jet fighters and nuclear bombs? Modern wars are not won that way! The instruments of modern warfare include the propaganda, tactics, strategy, ICT cum intelligence, economics, ideology, partnerships, politics, etc. Critical factors such as timing, speed, surprise and positioning (the theater) play a great role in determining the outcome of modern wars. That's why it's always so difficult to per-determine the outcome and also why it is advisable to avoid warfare at all cost! The weapons are merely tools of the trade, and remember 'a lazy workman quarrels with his tools!' There are many fear weapons out there, which will play the surprise role in a full blown warfare (where all is fair...). Such tools as weaponized chemicals and biologicals will show up, as well as the latest EMR -Electro-Magnetic Radiation, which can render the most potent aircraft, seacraft, command centre, etc virtually useless. It will fry all eletrical-electronic components and render them useless in seconds - imaging that game-changing scenario! |
Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Jet Near Syrian Border by mazeltov(m): 11:11am On Nov 26, 2015 |
Can't belive that I would wake up this morning and read this little piece of junk Appleyard:CRAP!!!. I'm highly disappointed in you, I can't believe that you could search through net and uplift some information just to justify your claims and ignore some others because you knew it would expose you. Quoting from the same source... 1 Why did you skip where it was said - RAPTOR HAS EMBEDED SENSOR/FUSION which gives pilot focus on dealing with enemy rather than dealing with the aircraft- Raptor has multiple sensors and information-sharing links show on multiple display that often requires button pressing to switch back & forth, its central integrated processors offer the equivalent of 2 supercomputers used for sensor fusion that aims to put all the information plane is gathering into one simple display- a display departure embeds passive sensors for various wavelenght all around the plane's structure and this greatly improves first detection ability even with its radar off and combination of sensors means Raptor pilots are almost certain to know enemies' location long before the reverse. 2. Did you skip where it was said Raptor is All Aspect Stealth and has a very good radar profile from front. Yes stealth is not total invisibility but merely shortens the range at which jet can be detected on ground/air and makes radar lock for engagement harder to target. Raptor's stealth level shortens those ranges from all enemy positions with VHF radar and guess what? S-400 uses VHF!!. Stealthiness makes Raptor very slippery and able to engage/disengage from combat much more easily than previous radar-age fighter and that is especially important during an attack against most sophisticated SAM like S-400 3. Did you see where they discussed about Raptor's Agile-Beam AESA Radar - Turning on radar can be like turning on a flash light because radar emtis modules/signals and it can be seen farther. With the installation of AN/APG-77 Radar which uses hard-to-detect agiles frequency beam that are very hard for enemies to see. Active electeonically scanned Array 'AESA' radar kills everything due to their improved reliability, power and flexibility 4. You forgot to read Raptor Supercruise Ability - it can fly above Mach1 without using afterburner. Most of the jets stay below Mach1 for vast majority of their service lives. Raptor's 2 Pratt & Whitney F119 engines offers 35,000 pound of thrust each. Raptor's ability to supercruise at mach 1.5+ without using fuel-guzzling afterburner. Today, Raptor is the only operational aircraft in the world capable of consistent supercruiseling while carrying a full loads of weapons. Eurotyphoon comes closer with Mach1.2 while flying. 5. You intentionally overlooked where they analysed - - SAM like Pantsir and S-400 are extending their ranges to hundreds of kilometer and their missiles performance makes it dangerous for stealth/non-stealth jet to challenge. Fortunately their position are more fixed than aerial opponents- Raptors' detection ranges from any angle and this can create gaps in enemy's radar coverage and this is helpful when Raptor is trying to leave danger zone. A hyper-spectral suite of embeded sensor helps Raptor to map and exploit coverage gaps and supercruise reduce detection range, the hope of this will allow Raptor to get close enough to launch its own unpowered weapons first before the enemy. An AN/APG-77 radar with future software upgrades will provide final stage jamming of enemy's radar http://www.defenseindustry.com/f-22-raptor-capabilities-and-contoveries-019069/ Appleyard:Is that the best you can offer? Now listen. Pantsyr was firstly unveiled in MAKS air show in Zhvkosvsky near Mosvow in 1995 and it is a defensive missile-gun systrm designed to protect vital and small military areas and land force unit and protection against precision-guided air attact from low and extreme low altitudes - it has 12 surface to air 57E6 guided missiles and 2 2A38M 30 mm- gun with multi range radar capability of detecting aerial target of up to 2-3 sq and at distance range of mora than 30km and tracking range of about 24km http://www.armyrecognition.com/russia_russian_missile_system_vehicle_uk/pantsir-pantsyr_s1_sa-22_greyhound_air_defense_missile_gun_system_technical_data_sheet_specification.html Please tell me, where did you see 1500km for Pantsyr? No matter how long, I won't be tired of rendering free military tutelages to enhance your understanding & I'm wiating for more junks from u |
Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Jet Near Syrian Border by Nobody: 11:31am On Nov 26, 2015 |
Putin if you are not ready to play dirty then leave the battle field. China won't take such rubbish...Putin is weak! |
Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Jet Near Syrian Border by mazeltov(m): 11:35am On Nov 26, 2015 |
Until you wake up to reality on ground and remove the (Russian's spectacle) of prejudicatin from your eyes and be evenminded, then you will understand that you have long lost in the tunnel of Illusion Please search through the net very well and I am looking forward to reading more of your junks from INTERNET, but I can boldly assure you that I won't be tired of enlightening you no matter how long it takes. I will let you understand that neither Russia nor America has no super weapon. . See you later in the evening time bro. |
Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Jet Near Syrian Border by Nobody: 11:37am On Nov 26, 2015 |
TjNoobsaibot:Oh, yeah! Rag tags in Afghanistan did long time ago, downing some Russian fighter jets without grave consequences. Please, stop peddling your childish blabs here. |
Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Jet Near Syrian Border by mazeltov(m): 11:40am On Nov 26, 2015 |
ayodele234:Putin is not weak, he is simply tactical. Only that some invisible hands from the west like America and its Nato allies are undermining Putin's effort in combating terrorism. Give credit to Russia and Putin at least for trying to stabilise the peace in the world. SayNoToTerrorism. |
Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Jet Near Syrian Border by Nobody: 11:42am On Nov 26, 2015 |
HomoDroid:You nailed it and you are one smart individual too. Most ignorant people here wouldn't want to see that other side of the battle only want to talk about Putin's arrogance and display of super-cool weaponry. I got a bottle of Budweiser for you for that intelligent post, dude! |
Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Jet Near Syrian Border by Nobody: 11:46am On Nov 26, 2015 |
mazeltov:He is not there to fight terrors he is there for Russian interest. Those bombing are publicity stunts! If you think Russians are in Syria to end terror you are joking and you don't know much about terrorism. They couldn't do that in Afghanistan when terrors were not that sophisticated and you expect them to be able to do it now. Fighting terrorism is not all about bombing. Even almighty USA tried that without success in Iraq, Afghanistan and presently in Syria. The most obvious fact is that Putin is in Syria to save Al Assad face and keep him in power for its own gain. |
Re: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Jet Near Syrian Border by Nobody: 11:48am On Nov 26, 2015 |
Tkester:Good for you, c**k sucker! |
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