The historical record of Rev Samuel Johnson had its own limitations which today is responsible for questions being asked by the younger generation. That record was based on the Oyo Empire and every other sub groups were viewed from that perspective. Before Oyo Empire, there was Ife(it was not founded by Oduduwa but Oduduwa era came in after over 90 kings had reigned).Tracing their roots to Ife is not just from Yoruba alone but their kinsmen from West Africa even the Ijaw. If you for instance read the history of the Ijaw, it is boldly written that their claimed ancestor was a brother of Adimu or Adimula who Yoruba called Olofin Adimula in Ife.
The Eastern Yoruba and the Ijebu were before the coming of Oyo Empire. Such groups as Ekiti, Ondo, Owo, Ose, Ilaje, Ikale, Ijebu, Ife, Okun, Igbomina, Akoko and Bini were most probable under Ugbo and Ife at different times befor the coming of Oyo. The Oranmiyan that started the Oyo Empire took off from IFE after sojourn in BINI(probably through war expedition) and could not hold on to his authority at his return to IFE(probably because his lieutenants have established themselves well enough or his power has been overthrowned). Ife existed way before Oyo for many centuries just like the Ekiti, Akoko, Ijebu and several Ondo groups.
Linguists have found out that the age of development of Yoruba dialects put the Ilaje/Itsekiri/Ikale, Ekiti and Ijebu as the oldest. From Oma(CHild) to Omo(child) and so on.
The history of the Yoruba did not start with Oduduwa as Agboniregun, Orunmila were much in older folklores and they were from the Eastern Yoruba country and probably where Oduduwa originated.

macof:


Some parts of Ekiti was...many other parts under Bini.
unless we don't consider Efon and Imesi as Ijesa(because they are in Ekiti state), because Efon and Imesi were under Oyo empire at some point

It was Ibadan not Oyo empire and this led to kiriji war between Ekiti (& Ijesa) and Ibadan. Oyo speaking & Ekiti groups have the largest populations among Anago or Lucumi tribe( Akure land about 3 LGA + 3 LGA in kwara are part of Ekiti) many old people in present Yorubaland hate being called Yoruba just like Itsekiri, olukumi & other Yorubas in Cuba, Brazil, who preferred Lucum; it refers to only Oyo group but for political identity, Ijebu, Ekiti, Ife, Okun, Akoko, Owo, Ondo, Ijesa, Igbomina, Ilaje, Ikale, Egba, etc now accepted to be called so.

alablec:


It was Ibadan not Oyo empire and this led to kiriji war between Ekiti (& Ijesa) and Ibadan. Oyo speaking & Ekiti groups have the largest populations among Anago or Lucumi tribe( Akure land about 3 LGA + 3 LGA in kwara are part of Ekiti) many old people in present Yorubaland hate being called Yoruba just like Itsekiri, olukumi & other Yorubas in Cuba, Brazil, who preferred Lucum; it refers to only Oyo group but for political identity, Ijebu, Ekiti, Ife, Okun, Akoko, Owo, Ondo, Ijesa, Igbomina, Ilaje, Ikale, Egba, etc now accepted to be called so.

Well , Oyo claim to have had Ijebu (except the waterside) and Ekiti which a lot of people seem to disagree.

I can't speak for ijebu but I know some parts of Ekiti were under Oyo, the administration passed unto Ibadan and expanded further.
Akure were part of Ekiti, but Ajaponda left, there's no point calling Akure Ekiti

macof:


Well , Oyo claim to have had Ijebu (except the waterside) and Ekiti which a lot of people seem to disagree.

I can't speak for ijebu but I know some parts of Ekiti were under Oyo, the administration passed unto Ibadan and expanded further.
Akure were part of Ekiti, but Ajaponda left, there's no point calling Akure Ekiti

Akure is culturally and dialectically Ekiti.

scholes0:


Akure is culturally and dialectically Ekiti.

I've not listened to the Akure dialect but you need to know that "Ekiti" is really not a single dialect
Remember Ekiti is a traditional confederacy

macof:
I've not listened to the Akure dialect but you need to know that "Ekiti" is really not a single dialect
Remember Ekiti is a traditional confederacy

Ekiti is the only homogeneous state in the S/W with a dialect and they all accepted this but you can only claim there exist variations in the border areas with influence of Ijesa, Igbomina, Okun and Akoko. Yes, Ekiti has more than 16 kingdoms that exist at present in Ekiti State, one of those is Akure; to Ondo Ekimogun, she only shared boundary with Ekiti and Akoko not Akure or Owo. Ekiti was the most ancient as they once occupied Ife; Ado is referred to as "Ule IFA" as per Orunmila and Agboniregun. One can't make incantation without mentioning Ajero, Alara or Ikole. It's the dialect you can refer to as middle 'passage' of the Yoruboid languages including Igala and Itsekiri. One or two Ekiti towns use 'Atta' instead of 'Oba',e.g, Atta of Ayede. Archeological discovery pointed to the fact that Ekiti area has been inhabited for thousands of years and the most ancient human bones in West Africa was found in Iwo Eleru near Akure. You need to study Akure, Ilara-moki, Igbara-Oke, Iju,etc in Ondo State and Ise, Emure, Igbara-odo, etc in Ekiti State to know that these people are the same in culture, dialect, food(pounded yam),etc. Oyo empire never cover Ekiti just like Ife; Ekitiland is mainly of thick forest surrounded by great hills and mighty rocks, very difficult for Oyo caravan, horsemen to penetrate but Oyo expanded very well in the savana up to Ghana. The main challenge was with Bini and they didn't bring Ekiti under their authority but settled in Ado-Bini(Akure) for sometime to exert some influence on surrounding communities and it was always wars as towns like Ikere, Iyin, Otun, etc would never accept to be subservient to any empire until Ibadan power block emerged from dead greater Oyo Empire lording it over every Yoruba territory only Afonja warriors (reminants of Oyo empire army in Ilorin cum the released Hausa slaves, Baruba, Tapa and few Fulani) in Ilorin could engaged Ibadan but Ekiti too could not tolerate Ibadan, and their 'ajeles' and soldiers were brutally slaughtered, this led to Ekiti parapo (kiriji) war with Ijesa support and Ijebus supplying Ekitis with the firearms needed to defeat Ibadan, the enemy of everyone then. Ekiti parapo armies under the Command of Ogedengbe were already at Ikire before British broke peace....the rest they say, is history. we are now Yorubas and we are one, whether some were of ancient Atlantis, Phonicians, Semitic, Hamitic, kushites, Nok etc, we are now one...

macof:
I've not listened to the Akure dialect but you need to know that "Ekiti" is really not a single dialect
Remember Ekiti is a traditional confederacy

Scholes0 is right about Akure being Ekiti. It's the same with Iju & Itaogbolu.

alablec:


Ekiti is the only homogeneous state in the S/W with a dialect and they all accepted this but you can only claim there exist variations in the border areas with influence of Ijesa, Igbomina, Okun and Akoko. Yes, Ekiti has more than 16 kingdoms that exist at present in Ekiti State, one of those is Akure; to Ondo Ekimogun, she only shared boundary with Ekiti and Akoko not Akure or Owo. Ekiti was the most ancient as they once occupied Ife; Ado is referred to as "Ule IFA" as per Orunmila and Agboniregun. One can't make incantation without mentioning Ajero, Alara or Ikole. It's the dialect you can refer to as middle 'passage' of the Yoruboid languages including Igala and Itsekiri. One or two Ekiti towns use 'Atta' instead of 'Oba',e.g, Atta of Ayede. Archeological discovery pointed to the fact that Ekiti area has been inhabited for thousands of years and the most ancient human bones in West Africa was found in Iwo Eleru near Akure. You need to study Akure, Ilara-moki, Igbara-Oke, Iju,etc in Ondo State and Ise, Emure, Igbara-odo, etc in Ekiti State to know that these people are the same in culture, dialect, food(pounded yam),etc. Oyo empire never cover Ekiti just like Ife; Ekitiland is mainly of thick forest surrounded by great hills and mighty rocks, very difficult for Oyo caravan, horsemen to penetrate but Oyo expanded very well in the savana up to Ghana. The main challenge was with Bini and they didn't brought Ekiti under their authority but settled in Ado-Bini(Akure) for sometime to exert some influence on surrounding communities and it was always wars as towns like Ikere, Iyin, Otun, etc would never accept to be subservients to any empire until Ibadan power block emerged from dead greater Oyo Empire lording it over every Yoruba territorie only Afonja warriors (reminant of Oyo empire army in Ilorin cum the released Hausa slaves, Baruba, Tapa and few Fulani) in Ilorin could engaged Ibadan but Ekiti too could not tolerate Ibadan, and their 'ajeles' and soldiers were brutally slaughtered, this led to Ekiti parapo (kiriji) war with Ijesa support and Ijebus supplying Ekitis with the firearms needed to defeat Ibadan, the enemy of everyone then. Ekiti parapo armies under the Command of Ogedengbe were already at Ikire before British broke peace....the rest they say, is history. we are now Yorubas and we are one, whether some were of ancient Atlantis, Ponecians, Semitic, Hamitic, kushites, Nok etc, we are now one...

What I'm saying is that Akure left the Ekiti arrangement preferring independence. Whether they are culturally Ekiti or not, They remain Everly close to us but hold themselves distinct from Ekiti. .and this is not about Ondo state/Ekiti state. Ijesa are also culturally and dialectically identical to Ekiti
Btw There's no single "Ekiti" dialect, like you said there are variants but we understand ourselves perfectly well. in my home town we say "mee se" others say "mi ke se". "Ifaki tia" others may say "Ado ria"
That is why Ekiti say "Ekiti a ti parapo, okan la wa nse" we used to be different. If care is not taken Imesi will be said to be Ekiti. .maybe even Ilesa because Ilesa were also in Ekiti parapo

scholes0:


Akure is culturally and dialectically Ekiti.

In my opinion, so is Ilesa.
At one time, all of Ekiti was referred to as "Ijesa"
In some of orunmila's oriki u hear "ara ode Ijesa" when we all know he was an Ekiti man

Ife nko?

macof:

What I'm saying is that Akure left the Ekiti arrangement preferring independence. Whether they are culturally Ekiti or not, They remain Everly close to us but hold themselves distinct from Ekiti. .and this is not about Ondo state/Ekiti state. Ijesa are also culturally and dialectically identical to Ekiti
Btw There's no single "Ekiti" dialect, like you said there are variants but we understand ourselves perfectly well. in my home town we say "mee se" others say "mi ke se". "Ifaki tia" others may say "Ado ria"
That is why Ekiti say "Ekiti a ti parapo, okan la wa nse" we used to be different. If care is not taken Imesi will be said to be Ekiti. .maybe even Ilesa because Ilesa were also in Ekiti parapo

There is the confederation of Ekiti, Akoko, Ijesa and Okun, known as the Ekiti Parapo (The Military unit which came together to checkmate Ibadan expansionism)
Then, there is also the Ekiti CULTURAL group/subdivision of the Yoruba race who share dialect and culture. Ilesha belonged to the former, not the later, they are culturally ijesha just like Esa Oke, Ibokun, Erin Ijesha.
the mountainous Efon Alaaye region in Ekiti state is near the border of Ekiti sd Ijesha sub-groups. By the way which Imesi were you referrig to? Imesi Ile or Oke-Imesi ?

scholes0:


There is the confederation of Ekiti, Akoko, Ijesa and Okun, known as the Ekiti Parapo (The Military unit which came together to checkmate Ibadan expansionism)
Then, there is also the Ekiti CULTURAL group/subdivision of the Yoruba race who share dialect and culture. Ilesha belonged to the former, not the later, they are culturally ijesha just like Esa Oke, Ibokun, Erin Ijesha.
the mountainous Efon Alaaye region in Ekiti state is near the border of Ekiti sd Ijesha sub-groups. By the way which Imesi were you referrig to? Imesi Ile or Oke-Imesi ?

What is the cultural differences between Ekiti and Ijesa?
Imesi are one people, imesi ile was founded by Oke imesi

Imesi Ile is actually the cradle, that is why it is called imesi ile(origin).there is also another imesi in gbonyin LGA of ekiti state. Imesi ile is in osun state while oke imesi and imesi are in ekiti. As for Efon, it was a distinct group but among the ekiti confederacy. Akure left the confederacy because of efon due to seniority clash.
What is the cultural differences between Ekiti and Ijesa?
Imesi are one people, imesi ile was founded by Oke imesi[/quote]

Good point, as an ekiti man, I understand igala language just little difference. For example, in igala, oya mi t bimo

alablec:

Which means my wife has put to bed also spoken same in ekiti. Another one is oogun mu mi means i feel heat is also same in ekiti and general yoruba is oru mu mi. Ekiti is the dispersal point for yoruboid group. In ikere ekiti, the monarchy is of benin origin.
Ekiti is the only homogeneous state in the S/W with a dialect and they all accepted this but you can only claim there exist variations in the border areas with influence of Ijesa, Igbomina, Okun and Akoko. Yes, Ekiti has more than 16 kingdoms that exist at present in Ekiti State, one of those is Akure; to Ondo Ekimogun, she only shared boundary with Ekiti and Akoko not Akure or Owo. Ekiti was the most ancient as they once occupied Ife; Ado is referred to as "Ule IFA" as per Orunmila and Agboniregun. One can't make incantation without mentioning Ajero, Alara or Ikole. It's the dialect you can refer to as middle 'passage' of the Yoruboid languages including Igala and Itsekiri. One or two Ekiti towns use 'Atta' instead of 'Oba',e.g, Atta of Ayede. Archeological discovery pointed to the fact that Ekiti area has been inhabited for thousands of years and the most ancient human bones in West Africa was found in Iwo Eleru near Akure. You need to study Akure, Ilara-moki, Igbara-Oke, Iju,etc in Ondo State and Ise, Emure, Igbara-odo, etc in Ekiti State to know that these people are the same in culture, dialect, food(pounded yam),etc. Oyo empire never cover Ekiti just like Ife; Ekitiland is mainly of thick forest surrounded by great hills and mighty rocks, very difficult for Oyo caravan, horsemen to penetrate but Oyo expanded very well in the savana up to Ghana. The main challenge was with Bini and they didn't brought Ekiti under their authority but settled in Ado-Bini(Akure) for sometime to exert some influence on surrounding communities and it was always wars as towns like Ikere, Iyin, Otun, etc would never accept to be subservients to any empire until Ibadan power block emerged from dead greater Oyo Empire lording it over every Yoruba territorie only Afonja warriors (reminant of Oyo empire army in Ilorin cum the released Hausa slaves, Baruba, Tapa and few Fulani) in Ilorin could engaged Ibadan but Ekiti too could not tolerate Ibadan, and their 'ajeles' and soldiers were brutally slaughtered, this led to Ekiti parapo (kiriji) war with Ijesa support and Ijebus supplying Ekitis with the firearms needed to defeat Ibadan, the enemy of everyone then. Ekiti parapo armies under the Command of Ogedengbe were already at Ikire before British broke peace....the rest they say, is history. we are now Yorubas and we are one, whether some were of ancient Atlantis, Ponecians, Semitic, Hamitic, kushites, Nok etc, we are now one...

toyinakomolafe:
Imesi Ile is actually the cradle, that is why it is called imesi ile(origin).there is also another imesi in gbonyin LGA of ekiti state. Imesi ile is in osun state while oke imesi and imesi are in ekiti. As for Efon, it was a distinct group but among the ekiti confederacy. Akure left the confederacy because of efon due to seniority clash.
What is the cultural differences between Ekiti and Ijesa?
Imesi are one people, imesi ile was founded by Oke imesi

But the Oloja Owa Oke- Imesi is a first class king in Yorubaland, I don't even know what they call the Oba at imesi-ile.
Sometimes "ile" doesn't represent origin. In Ekiti there's Ido, there's Ido-ile/idole . Idole was founded by folks from Ido.
"Ile" home meaning home for all imesi

Efon was a kingdom that had many genuine Ekiti towns under it. .
But does joining the confederacy make efon more Ekiti than Ijesa now?

ILE as a suffix with many Yoruba towns usually connotes origin. Ido Ile is actually the origin of many Idos. You can always verify this claim by doing more research.

macof:


But the Oloja Owa Oke- Imesi is a first class king in Yorubaland, I don't even know what they call the Oba at imesi-ile.
Sometimes "ile" doesn't represent origin. In Ekiti there's Ido, there's Ido-ile/idole . Idole was founded by folks from Ido.
"Ile" home meaning home for all imesi

Efon was a kingdom that had many genuine Ekiti towns under it. .
But does joining the confederacy make efon more Ekiti than Ijesa now?

toyinakomolafe:
ILE as a suffix with many Yoruba towns usually connotes origin. Ido Ile is actually the origin of many Idos. You can always verify this claim by doing more research.

I don't know where "ile" ever denotes origin. . Its all new to me. So what does "Eko-ile" denote?

What other idos came from idole?

macof:


I don't know where "ile" ever denotes origin. . Its all new to me. So what does "Eko-ile" denote?

What other idos came from idole?

Rilly?
Ile-Ife nko?

scholes0:


Rilly?
Ile-Ife nko?

Ile" doesn't denote origin. . "Ile-Ife" altogether does

macof:


Ile" doesn't denote origin. . "Ile-Ife" altogether does

I actually think it does.
Because there are other ifes, such as "Ifetedo", "Ifewara" etc.

scholes0:


I actually think it does.
Because there are other ifes, such as "Ifetedo", "Ifewara" etc.

*sighs* if you don't accept my own, I accept ur own.
No need to take this any further

dejavski:


In my opinion yoruba is more like a group of people with mutual relationship that have lived together for a long time in peace and harmony. In other words you cannot call yoruba a tribe. This is because most of these clans do not have common cultural and monarchial heritage.
I haven't come across anywhere in yorubaland where they celebrate Aiyelala or umale or umalokun festival as it's being celebrated here in ilaje.
Same also lies to other dialects such as Owo Ikale and so on.
The only thing you can celebrate general is the Ogun festival which is also celebrated in Benin.
For the monarchical System, the ilaje System was derived from benin Kingdom. The same applies t ikales.
Why didn't we hear of a dominant yoruba Empire in the 14th century up till 19th century? Even the Oyo empire we hear of had its boundaries and territories(google it) it didn't extend to the eastern parts such as ijebus Owos ilajes ikales etc

Lol!
Ondo kingdom celebrates ayeilala and umale very well!
As a matter of fact, ilaje language is no different from Ondo dialects! I really don't know what the hell you are trying to saying here!
As matter of fact, what denotes a Yoruba is the descent from Ife, of which the Ilaje is also a descent!
I really doubt you are Ilaje though!

DiademSh07:

Lol!
Ondo kingdom celebrates ayeilala and umale very well!
As a matter of fact, ilaje language is no different from Ondo dialects! I really don't know what the hell you are trying to saying here!
As matter of fact, what denotes a Yoruba is the descent from Ife, of which the Ilaje is also a descent!
I really doubt you are Ilaje though!

Lol?
Did you read what I wrote there?

dejavski:


Lol?
Did you read what I wrote there?

You seem to have identity crises as opposed to a true Ilaje who has none!
The basic thing is if Ife is the ancestral home as it is for Ilaje, Ondo, Ijebu etc, then they are all Yoruba!

DiademSh07:

You seem to have identity crises as opposed to a true Ilaje who has none!
The basic thing is if Ife is the ancestral home as it is for Ilaje, Ondo, Ijebu etc, then they are all Yoruba!

How do you recognise a tribe? They share the same culture and traditional beliefs. Please help me outline one of these two things that is being shared across all territories in yorubaland?

scholes0:


It is on record that Ekiti, Ijesha, Ikale, Ilaje, Akure, Ogho (Owo), Ijebu, Akokos, Okun/Yagba and other Yoruba groups of the Eastern half, were never under the Oyo empire.

Then how come Samuel Johnson's history of the Yoruba states that the first Awujale of Ijebuland was sent from Oyo by the Alaafin?

Flyoruboy:


Then how come Samuel Johnson's history of the Yoruba states that the first Awujale of Ijebuland was sent from Oyo by the Alaafin?

That's nonsense. The Awujale dynasty is older than Alafin. .as Awujale was an elder brother of Alaafin

macof:


That's nonsense. The Awujale dynasty is older than Alafin. .as Awujale was an elder brother of Alaafin

Ok. If you say so. But like I said, according to Samuel Johnson and this Wiki link, the Awujale title came into being during Alaafin Jayin's reign -- this account states that it was an ilari sent by the Alaafin to the Ijebuland that became the frist Awujale

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jayin

I am typing via my phone I would have quoted Samuel Johnson's submission.

Flyoruboy:



Ok. If you say so. But like I said, according to Samuel Johnson and this Wiki link, the Awujale title came into being during Alaafin Jayin's reign -- this account states that it was an ilari sent by the Alaafin to the Ijebuland that became the frist Awujale

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jayin

I am typing via my phone I would have quoted Samuel Johnson's submission.

I'm familiar with Samuel Johnson, I don't take his book seriously. .too much errors

macof:



But does joining the confederacy make efon more Ekiti than Ijesa now?

I'm not sure what you folks are typing.

is there anyone here who can correct you?

tpiar:


I'm not sure what you folks are typing.

is there anyone here who can correct you?

If you have something to say, just say it
If not run along to another thread