After many years of "Pentecostals" demonizing Catholics for the practice of Canonization of Saints, one of their most revered "pastors" Adeboye, has now declared that he has no doubt that HID Awolowo is in heaven (the same thing that the Pope does in a Canonization).

Now the same "Pentecostals" that call the Pope and the Church evil for daring to declare that a person is in heaven...are telling those criticizing Adeboye not to speak ill of a "man of God."

Does Adeboye now believe in Canonization of Saints or does he believe that his own Canonization is holy and that of the Pope is evil?

This is the same hypocrisy that pentecostal exhibit on virtually every Catholic doctrine. E.g Holy Communion, Celebration of Christmas, Easter etc. They criticize...then they copy it.

Hypocritical pentecostals are free to run away and pretend to didn't see this thread, as usual.

"I have no doubt that Mama is resting with the Lord."
- E.A deboye.
That's obviously a personal opinion. He, Adeboye knows that saints on earth go to heaven.

Do you have any issue with his opinion/knowledge?

italo:
After many years of "Pentecostals" demonizing Catholics for the practice of Canonization of Saints, one of their most revered "pastors" Adeboye, has now declared that he has no doubt that HID Awolowo is in heaven (the same thing that the Pope does in a Canonization).

Now the same "Pentecostals" that call the Pope and the Church evil for daring to declare that a person is in heaven...are telling those criticizing Adeboye not to speak ill of a "man of God."

Does Adeboye now believe in Canonization of Saints or does he believe that his own Canonization is holy and that of the Pope is evil?

This is the same hypocrisy that pentecostal exhibit on virtually every Catholic doctrine. E.g Holy Communion, Celebration of Christmas, Easter etc. They criticize...then they copy it.

Hypocritical pentecostals are free to run away and pretend to didn't see this thread, as usual.

Catholicism has perfected the art of necromancy

adsonstone:
"I have no doubt that Mama is resting
with the Lord."

- E.A deboye.

That's obviously a personal opinion.
He, Adeboye knows that saints on earth go to heaven.


Do you have any issue with his opinion/knowledge?

Adeboye should keep his opinion to himself. He is not God who decides ones fate. whether personal opinion or whatever, he has goofed.

ministeriallist:

Adeboye should keep his opinion to himself. He is not God who decides ones fate. whether personal opinion or whatever, he has goofed.

Okay.

adsonstone:
"I have no doubt that Mama is resting
with the Lord."

- E.A deboye.

That's obviously a personal opinion.
He, Adeboye knows that saints on earth go to heaven.


Do you have any issue with his opinion/knowledge?

The issue I have is written in my OP.

When pentecostals like you demonize the Catholic Church for its opinions (like Canonization of Saints), then condone (and even practise) the same opinions when your "pastors" start to copy it.

italo:


The issue I have is written in my OP.

When pentecostals like you demonize the Catholic Church for its opinions (like Canonization of Saints), then condone (and even practise) the same opinions when your "pastors" start to copy it.

Show me where I 'demonized' Canonization of Saints and show me where I have condoned or practised it.

italo:
After many years of "Pentecostals" demonizing Catholics for the practice of Canonization of Saints, one of their most revered "pastors" Adeboye, has now declared that he has no doubt that HID Awolowo is in heaven (the same thing that the Pope does in a Canonization).

Now the same "Pentecostals" that call the Pope and the Church evil for daring to declare that a person is in heaven...are telling those criticizing Adeboye not to speak ill of a "man of God."

Does Adeboye now believe in Canonization of Saints or does he believe that his own Canonization is holy and that of the Pope is evil?

This is the same hypocrisy that pentecostal exhibit on virtually every Catholic doctrine. E.g Holy Communion, Celebration of Christmas, Easter etc. They criticize...then they copy it.

Hypocritical pentecostals are free to run away and pretend to didn't see this thread, as usual.

they claim the pope cannot declear that a dead xtian is in heaven, but pastor adeboye can. They will come here and attempt to defend him.


I once had a friend he was a member of oyedepo's 'church', we happened to discuss many issues regarding doctrines, he would demonise catholics for calling their priest 'rev fr' but he didnt see d hypocrisy of calling oyedepo 'papa'. The issue that interested me d most was dat this guy didnt blieve in d trinity(he picked his opinion from a tele evangelist), we spent close to a year discussing trinity, i wasted my time taking him through passage by passage and showing how in d fullness of time God revealed himself as a mutual indwelling of 3 persons, he told me that my explanation were fine but that an unbeliever wit a bible won't be able to read trinity there so he concluded it was a theory of man, d issue bcame too hot, i had to let it be. 6months later dis guy claim he now believed in d trinity, how come? And influential pastor/writter taught it in his book so he accepted it as true.

After several such case, i came to d conclusion that most protestants don't care what d truth is, if their pastor or writter is against d catholic d average protestant will do d same and he will maintain d catholic practice is wrong not minding d fact his church has a similar one. It is hypocrisy but d protestant doesnt care, ro far he has sumtin to protest about.

vooks:

Catholicism has perfected the art of necromancy

and protestants are happy to copy it.


You can also go and check d meaning of necromancy. It is funny u guy who hold doctrine made up abt d 16th to 19th century, later day heresy are the one who claim to know what right xtian practice consist of.

Now address the topic and stop diverting attention.

adsonstone:


Show me where I 'demonized' Canonization of Saints and show me where I have condoned or practised it.

When pentecostals like you demonize the Catholic Church for its opinions (like Canonization of Saints), then condone (and even practise) the same opinions when your "pastors" start to copy it.

If you haven't done it, the ones who do it are pentecostals like you.

I sure expect the few pentecostals who are bold enough to come to this thread to deny ever demonizing Canonization of Saints...now that Adeboye has 'Canonized' 'St. HID Awolowo.'

Maybe you will condone and practise it when Kumuyi 'canonizes' his own 'saint,' if you don't already do so...since you're a Deeper Life member (that's if you haven't ported to another 'church')

italo:




If you haven't done it, the ones who do it are pentecostals like you.

I sure expect the few pentecostals who are bold enough to come to this thread to deny ever demonizing Canonization of Saints...now that Adeboye has 'Canonized' 'St. HID Awolowo.'

Maybe you will condone and practise it when Kumuyi 'canonizes' his own 'saint,' if you don't already do so...since you're a Deeper Life member (that's if you haven't ported to another 'church')

Okay...maybe.

I know every 'Christian' is a Saint when alive and if he dies as such, he remains a saint and will live with God and like God after his transition...even without being 'Canonized' by any religious body.

adsonstone:


Okay...maybe.

I know every 'Christian' is a Saint when alive and if he dies as such, he remains a saint and will live with God and like God after his transition...even without being 'Canonized' by any religious body.

We all know that. No need to re-inform us.

This thread is about the hypocrisy in the pentecostal 'churches.'

A Pentecostal leader has done the same thing that Pentecostals demonize the Catholics for...and there is no outrage from pentecostals.

And this hypocrisy is not limited to Canonization. It cuts across Catholic doctrines and practices...as we have shown so far.

That is a fact you're unwilling to engage.

italo:


We all know that. No need to re-inform us.

This thread is about the hypocrisy in the pentecostal 'churches.'

A Pentecostal leader has done the same thing that Pentecostals demonize the Catholics for...and there is no outrage from pentecostals.

And this hypocrisy is not limited to Canonization. It cuts across Catholic doctrines and practices...as we have shown so far.

That is a fact you're unwilling to engage.

Okay.

So, according to you, Pastor Adeboye has canonized H.I.D Awolowo by giving his opinion about her afterlife, right?

He has made her venerable?

Continue.

Abeg we don't need to be disturbing ourselves, protestants are funny in that they criticize us for something and end up doing the same exact thing.

I still wonder what if these same protestants were to be the ones fighting against Gnosticism, would they have survived

adsonstone:


Okay.

So, according to you, Pastor Adeboye has canonized H.I.D Awolowo by giving his opinion about her afterlife, right?

He has made her venerable?

Continue.

Yes. That's what Canonization of Saints is: declaring that, without a doubt, someone was right with God at their passing...and is now in heaven with God.

The same thing that Pentecostals like you demonize, you're now practising.

And it isn't only Adeboye, there are other 'pastors' of yours who are going as far as charging a fee to tell you if your name is in the book of life or not.

ministeriallist:

Adeboye should keep his opinion to himself. He is not God who decides ones fate. whether personal opinion or whatever, he has goofed.

As long as everyone is free to express their mind, then why should he keep it to himself, he has the right to express is personal opinion therefore anyone who like it should accept it and anyone that doesn't like should reject it..

italo:


Yes. That's what Canonization of Saints is: declaring that, without a doubt, someone was right with God at their passing...and is now in heaven with God.

The same thing that Pentecostals like you demonize, you're now practising.

And it isn't only Adeboye, there are other 'pastors' of yours who are going as far as charging a fee to tell you if your name is in the book of life or not.

Perhaps, he also declared that Christians should now venerate and pray through her.

...and if tomorrow, I say 'I have no doubt that my late grandpa is in Heaven,' I have canonized him...wrong?

adsonstone:


Perhaps, he also declared that Christians should now venerate and pray through her.

So you said. Can you pretend that your grand pa is not venerated?

How and where was he buried? How was his will treated? Was it religiously adhered to...or was it discarded?

in what condition is his grave site? Neglected or well taken care of?

adsonstone:


...and if tomorrow, I say 'I have no doubt that my late grandpa is in Heaven,' I have canonized him...wrong?

Yes. You've done what is done at Canonization: declaring that, without a doubt, your grand pa was right with God at his passing, and is now in heaven.

italo:


So you said. Can you pretend that your grand pa is not venerated?

How and where was he buried? How was his will treated? Was it religiously adhered to...or was it discarded?

in what condition is his grave site? Neglected or well taken care of?





Yes. You've done what is done at Canonization: declaring that, without a doubt, your grand pa was right with God at his passing, and is now in heaven.

Okay.

Ubenedictus:
and protestants are happy to copy it.


You can also go and check d meaning of necromancy. It is funny u guy who hold doctrine made up abt d 16th to 19th century, later day heresy are the one who claim to know what right xtian practice consist of.

Now address the topic and stop diverting attention.

You chat with dead beings and beg them to pray for you...that's necromancy

Ubenedictus:



After several such case, i came to d conclusion that most protestants don't care what d truth is, if their pastor or writter is against d catholic d average protestant will do d same and he will maintain d catholic practice is wrong not minding d fact his church has a similar one. It is hypocrisy but d protestant doesnt care, ro far he has sumtin to protest about.

Your sample was a few out of over 700 million and will your conclusion be valid??


While I am not a member of RCCG, I will reconsider the Op's claim when Pastor Adeboye bids his members beseech HID's intercession for them! What he simply did was to express an opinion based on his knowledge of the life she lived and where he believes she will end up. However, that's no proof that he is right! Besides, I dont hear him calling her a saint (in the catholic way)


Jesus assured the thief on the cross of paradise, was that canonization?

Paul stated that he was sure of a crown just before being decapitated, was that self canonization?

Enoch and Elijah were translated sans seeing death and any one in those times would be sure that they were not in hell, what do you say?





If the below defines Catholic canonization correctly, then I would say it has nothing to do with PAstor Adeboye's statement but rather another addition to the Bible by the RCC because saints are made so on earth (The epistles of the apostles were addressed to saints - building block of the Church) while still alive not a recognition (like a title) given after death!

Canonization (in American English and Oxford spelling) or canonisation (in British English) is the act by which the Orthodox, Oriental Orthodoxy, Roman Catholic, or Anglican Church declares that a person who has died was a saint, upon which declaration the person is included in the canon, or list, of recognized saints. Originally, people were recognized as saints without any formal process. Later, [size=13pt]different processes[/size], such as those used today in the Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches, were developed.
Wikipedia

Ubenedictus:


they claim the pope cannot declear that a dead xtian is in heaven, but pastor adeboye can. They will come here and attempt to defend him.

Show examples, maybe 2 or 3, of these people who claim the pope cannot do that, likewise, show where the these same people claim Adeboye can do that...all with sufficient
evidences/references.

I have known Roman Catholics to allude claims to innocent people. Show what I requested or I count this as another of these catholic allegations.

Ubenedictus:

I once had a friend he was a member of oyedepo's 'church', we happened to discuss many issues regarding doctrines, he would demonise catholics for calling their priest 'rev fr' but he didnt see d hypocrisy of calling oyedepo 'papa'. The issue that interested me d most was dat this guy didnt blieve in d trinity (he picked his opinion from a tele evangelist), we spent close to a year discussing trinity, I wasted my time taking him through passage by passage and showing how in d fullness of time God revealed himself as a mutual indwelling of 3 persons, he told me that my explanation were fine but that an unbeliever wit a bible won't be able to read trinity there so he concluded it was a theory of man, d issue bcame too hot, i had to let it be. 6months later dis guy claim he now believed in d trinity, how come? And influential pastor/writter taught it in his book so he accepted it as true.

Congratulations! Your effort was not wasted in the long term.
Your friend is an example of 'Thomas' who wouldn't believe until he's convinced, He wouldn't just accept what he isn't convinced about. The Church your friend attends teaches Trinity and believes firmly in it.

Just like there are some Catholics that don't miss mass but are still unsure if the Trinity is true or not or whether images of, and rituals to saints should be made even when the church teaches and practices these things.

Ubenedictus:

After several such case, i came to d conclusion that most protestants don't care what d truth is, if their pastor or writter is against d catholic d average protestant will do d same and he will maintain d catholic practice is wrong not minding d fact his church has a similar one. It is hypocrisy but d protestant doesn't care, ro far he has sumtin to protest about.

Exactly the same applies to Roman Catholics.

Catholics not only pretend to know who is in heaven, they also know the 'best' dead men to consult. Certainly believing a departed soul is in heaven is poles apart from the doctrine of worshipping saints aka necromancy

vooks:

You chat with dead beings and beg them to pray for you...that's necromancy

i guess i just follow the example of Jesus, he was known to chat with the dead!

adsonstone:


Show examples, maybe 2 or 3, of these people who claim the pope cannot do that, likewise, show where the these same people claim Adeboye can do that...all with sufficient
evidences/references.

sorry, i do not have d energy to search nl to find ur friends who have put a stamp of anathema on everything they think is catholic. I have met them before and gladly invite u to search for dem if u wish.

I have known Roman Catholics to allude claims to innocent people. Show what I requested or I count this as another of these catholic allegations.

u may also like to present instances?

Congratulations! Your effort was not wasted in the long term.
Your friend is an example of 'Thomas' who wouldn't believe until he's convinced, He wouldn't just accept what he isn't convinced about. The Church your friend attends teaches Trinity and believes firmly in it.

Just like there are some Catholics that don't miss mass but are still unsure if the Trinity is true or not or whether images of, and rituals to saints should be made even when the church teaches and practices these things.

tell me an interesting story. Does oyedepo's church have a creed? Or a belief statement where on can easily check their beliefs or is it each pastor 4 himself?

vooks:
Catholics not only pretend to know who is in heaven, they also know the 'best' dead men to consult. Certainly believing a departed soul is in heaven is poles apart from the doctrine of worshipping saints aka necromancy

and more interestingly u protestants are copying them one after d other, adeboye has already started declearing his own saint.

adsonstone:


Show examples, maybe 2 or 3, of these people who claim the pope cannot do that, likewise, show where the these same people claim Adeboye can do that...all with sufficient
evidences/references.

sorry, i do not have d energy to search nl to find ur friends who have put a stamp of anathema on everything they think is catholic. I have met them before and gladly invite u to search for dem if u wish.

I have known Roman Catholics to allude claims to innocent people. Show what I requested or I count this as another of these catholic allegations.

u may also like to present instances?

Congratulations! Your effort was not wasted in the long term.
Your friend is an example of 'Thomas' who wouldn't believe until he's convinced, He wouldn't just accept what he isn't convinced about. The Church your friend attends teaches Trinity and believes firmly in it.

Just like there are some Catholics that don't miss mass but are still unsure if the Trinity is true or not or whether images of, and rituals to saints should be made even when the church teaches and practices these things.

tell me an interesting story. Does oyedepo's church have a creed? Or a belief statement where on can easily check their beliefs or is it each pastor 4 himself?

Scholar8200:

Your sample was a few out of over 700 million and will your conclusion be valid??

my dear i have also heard ur friends give judgement base on hearsay, atleast my generalisation is based on experience. Adding d fact that there are no statistics for d topic in question, personal xperience seems like a good bet.

While I am not a member of RCCG, I will reconsider the Op's claim when Pastor Adeboye bids his members beseech HID's intercession for them! What he simply did was to express an opinion based on his knowledge of the life she lived and where he believes she will end up. However, that's no proof that he is right! Besides, I dont hear him calling her a saint (in the catholic way)

dat is exactly what it means to declear sum1 a saint! It simply mean looking at d persons life and death and sayin he is in heaven. Dat is what adeboye did.

Jesus assured the thief on the cross of paradise, was that canonization?

yeah, that seem to b d first recorded xtian canonization.

Paul stated that he was sure of a crown just before being decapitated, was that self canonization?

quote d passage, dat was his hope based on faith.

Enoch and Elijah were translated sans seeing death and any one in those times would be sure that they were not in hell, what do you say?





If the below defines Catholic canonization correctly, then I would say it has nothing to do with PAstor Adeboye's statement but rather another addition to the Bible by the RCC because saints are made so on earth (The epistles of the apostles were addressed to saints - building block of the Church) while still alive not a recognition (like a title) given after death!

Canonization (in American English and Oxford spelling) or canonisation (in British English) is the act by which the Orthodox, Oriental Orthodoxy, Roman Catholic, or Anglican Church declares that a person who has died was a saint, upon which declaration the person is included in the canon, or list, of recognized saints. Originally, people were recognized as saints without any formal process. Later, [size=13pt]different processes[/size], such as those used today in the Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches, were developed.
Wikipedia

as u quote infer, canonisation was actually a bishops stating clearly dat mr 'a' lived a good xtian life, died in Gods grace and is now in heaven! Sumtin oyedopo just did.

Ubenedictus:
my dear i have also heard ur friends give judgement base on hearsay, atleast my generalisation is based on experience. Adding d fact that there are no statistics for d topic in question, personal xperience seems like a good bet.

Alright. Perhaps 'most' could be changed to 'some'. Afterall you are the ones that accuse us of being sola scriptura.

dat is exactly what it means to declear sum1 a saint! It simply mean looking at d persons life and death and sayin he is in heaven. Dat is what adeboye did.

That is in catholicism but right from Scripture, a saint is one who has repented and has surrendered to the Lordship of Christ while living having believed on His vicarious sacrifice.
The thief on the cross became a saint at the time he repented (means changed his mind), stopped railing at Jesus but rather, recognising that He was crucified not for any sin and believing on Him, requested for a place in His kingdom.(that request alone proves the man really believed Jesus was more than another dying fellow man but the Son of God.)

quote d passage, dat was his hope based on faith

The certainty exuded by the verse ranks just the same yet it will be wrong to say he was canonizing himself.
I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

as u quote infer, canonisation was actually a bishops stating clearly dat mr 'a' lived a good xtian life, died in Gods grace and is now in heaven! Sumtin oyedopo just did.

But that quote says Catholicism has a process/some processes to be followed! Why then accuse a man for simply expressing an opinion (sans any process) which is by no means authoritative?

Ubenedictus:
and more interestingly u protestants are copying them one after d other, adeboye has already started declearing his own saint.

When you run of of knowledge and divine wisdom and start engaging dead people, you know your religion is dead. Adeboye has done none of that and I find it extremely silly that one would equate a belief that a dead person is in heaven with chatting with demons and familiar spirits. Did you know Queen of Heaven is a demon?

Ubenedictus:
i guess i just follow the example of Jesus, he was known to chat with the dead!

Jesus Christ is GOD, the Creator and you are a mortal. Why don't you also follow His example and create?

Pretty ret@rded logic right there

vooks:

Jesus Christ is GOD, the Creator and you are a mortal. Why don't you also follow His example and create?

Pretty ret@rded logic right there

So Jesus practised necromancy when he spoke to Moses and Elijah abi?

Well done!