agaugust:


You make me lose interest in this forum

http://www.military-today.com/artillery/erc90f4_sagaie.htm

Your same source states that the Rooikat 76mm is also a Tank Destroyer.........And it most definitely is not!!
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/rooikat.htm

jln115:


-The Sagaie will struggle to destroy a T55, and stands no chance against a Olifant Mk2 or MK1B hell it wont even destroy a Centurion mk3.

Sagaie will destroy even a T-72 tank.

"Sagaie introduced a GIAT TS 90 series turret mounting a 90mm high-velocity, long-barrel main gun. The major benefit of this installation was its support for an Armor-Piercing Discarding Sabot - Fin Stabilized (APDS-FS) anti-tank projectile which modernized the ERC 90 family against emerging battlefield threats - particularly the ubiquitous Soviet T-72 Main Battle Tank which were appearing in greater numbers all across the world."

http://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail-page-2.asp?armor_id=135

You know what? I want to stop replying you with so much free knowledge, you are learning a lot from me but you do not appreciate it, so I think I should leave you alone to live in ignorance and error.

Have a nice day, ingrate.

andrewza:



15 tanks or 1500 men. Great have fun your tanks will run out fuel and be captured your men will run out of food and be unable to advance and will surrender when they realize the enemy as freaking tanks.

Yeah aka they got guns. So unless you never move from the beach they cant protected your guys. Any case they all targets for a submarine.

that's where those 4 support ships comes in... they carry fuel, food and general logistics. 3 frigates and 10 corvette/fast attack craft will provide air defence and shore bombardment.

jln115:

This is what you said:
"both can hold about 1500 infantry men or 15 Tanks combine" can you see now were the misunderstanding came from?? anyway it can hold about 9-10 Tanks not 15 and about 600-700 infantry not 1500.

1. You obviously misunderstood what i meant when i said they dont mean much, I meant that they can't deploy any vehicles, thus play no physical part during the invasion phase. I didnt mean that they are useless and play no part t all.
2. All very nice, but you forgot the fact that a single Heroine class sub can sink your entire fleet, trust me its not our airforce you should worry about, secondly lets just say by some miracle your single LST does land a few hundred troops...How are you going to protect them from our Rooivalk and Hawk without any air-support??

1 LST holds 600-700 men, 2 LST holds about 1400-1500 men.
no 1) support ships holds fuel, food and general logistics... they have a crane for offloading goods ashore.

no 2) no a single sub can't sink anything. we can deploy 5 helicopters with the fleet. 3 anti-ship lynx with depth charge. we will bring along our shaldag class is faster than your torpedo and it carries depth charge too.
no 3) like I said before the fleet will be fitted with potent air-defence systems... plus we will equip our infantrymen with strella and blowpipe surface to air. your hawk and rooivalk are not special.

andrewza:


Only the last pic proofs your point. The middle 2are of fording a river. Eg driving accross. The ratel can ford a river of 1.2 metets in depth. That deeper than my hight.

well just to buttress my point.

Patchesagain:

1. Its inoperable 2. 4-5 tanks =/= invasion (capacity of the craft)

1. it can be fixed 2. two LST = 12-15 tanks

agaugust:


Sagaie will destroy even a T-72 tank.

"Sagaie introduced a GIAT TS 90 series turret mounting a 90mm high-velocity, long-barrel main gun. The major benefit of this installation was its support for an Armor-Piercing Discarding Sabot - Fin Stabilized (APDS-FS) anti-tank projectile which modernized the ERC 90 family against emerging battlefield threats - particularly the ubiquitous Soviet T-72 Main Battle Tank which were appearing in greater numbers all across the world."

http://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail-page-2.asp?armor_id=135

You know what? I want to stop replying you with so much free knowledge, you are learning a lot from me but you do not appreciate it, so I think I should leave you alone to live in ignorance and error.

Have a nice day, ingrate.

So then the 105 on the Olifant will pen the T-72 as well?

lionel4power:
that's where those 4 support ships comes in... they carry fuel, food and general logistics. 3 frigates and 10 corvette/fast attack craft will provide air defence and shore bombardment.

1. What 4 support ships?
2. 3 Frigates? You have one - and it is not operations, therefore, you have no qualified crew
3. 10 corvette/strike craft - most are not operational (the strike craft at least) and your corvettes are useless in conventional warfare

SAN will sink them with ease

lionel4power:
1 LST holds 600-700 men, 2 LST holds about 1400-1500 men.
no 1) support ships holds fuel, food and general logistics... they have a crane for offloading goods ashore.

no 2) no a single sub can't sink anything. we can deploy 5 helicopters with the fleet. 3 anti-ship lynx with depth charge. we will bring along our shaldag class is faster than your torpedo and it carries depth charge too.
no 3) like I said before the fleet will be fitted with potent air-defence systems... plus we will equip our infantrymen with strella and blowpipe surface to air. your hawk and rooivalk are not special.

1. Ok - 1500 men against ~50 000 men, ~12 grip, ~24 Hawk, 11 Rooivalk, 200 Olifant, ~150 Rooikat and over 1000 Ratel... seems like a one way ticket to me
2. How much supply do 1500 men require in combat, per day
3. Yes, one sub most certainly can - and all it really has to target is your LST
- You dont have "anti-ship lynx" or depth charge
- Aaaand the Range on a Shaldag is?
4. Your fleet does not have potent AA, Strela and Blowpipe are obsolete - practically useless against modern platforms.
- Ingwe missile outrages the Strela, Rooivalk can attack from stand off distance in complete saftey

I like hypothetical exercises, and I commend you on conducting yourself in a polite and gentlemanly manner. However, this little exercise holds no water whatsoever.

agaugust:


Sagaie will destroy even a T-72 tank.

"Sagaie introduced a GIAT TS 90 series turret mounting a 90mm high-velocity, long-barrel main gun. The major benefit of this installation was its support for an Armor-Piercing Discarding Sabot - Fin Stabilized (APDS-FS) anti-tank projectile which modernized the ERC 90 family against emerging battlefield threats - particularly the ubiquitous Soviet T-72 Main Battle Tank which were appearing in greater numbers all across the world."

http://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail-page-2.asp?armor_id=135

You know what? I want to stop replying you with so much free knowledge, you are learning a lot from me but you do not appreciate it, so I think I should leave you alone to live in ignorance and error.

Have a nice day, ingrate.

Just because it can penetrate a T72( If its very very lucky) doesn't make it a Tank Destroyer, The Rooikat can penetrate the Armour of the T72 as well, it doesn't make it a Tank Destroyer, Modern day Tank Destroyers/(Anti Tank) are armed with ATGMs, they are specifically designed to take out enemy armour at safe distances. Were also Talking about 1980s T72, how is your Sagaie going to penetrate a modern T72 with ERA or Olifant with composite armour?? Why dont you also show me a modern day tank destroyer armed with a Gun smaller than 125mm.

Both the Rooikat and Sagaie have a primary role of being Recce vehicles and Secondary role of fire support, both are not Tank Destroyers, no commander in their right mind will ever send in Rooikat or Sagaie to face enemy Tanks, thats why you have your own tanks and artillery with direct fire capability. Both Rooikat and Sagaie will ALWAYS be out gunned and out Armoured by enemy tanks.

The only ignorant fvck here is you!!

Patchesagain:


1. Ok - 1500 men against ~50 000 men, ~12 grip, ~24 Hawk, 11 Rooivalk, 200 Olifant, ~150 Rooikat and over 1000 Ratel... seems like a one way ticket to me
2. How much supply do 1500 men require in combat, per day
3. Yes, one sub most certainly can - and all it really has to target is your LST
- You dont have "anti-ship lynx" or depth charge
- Aaaand the Range on a Shaldag is?
4. Your fleet does not have potent AA, Strela and Blowpipe are obsolete - practically useless against modern platforms.
- Ingwe missile outrages the Strela, Rooivalk can attack from stand off distance in complete saftey

I like hypothetical exercises, and I commend you on conducting yourself in a polite and gentlemanly manner. However, this little exercise holds no water whatsoever.

1)your 50k men will not be in one place, who will defend other part of the country and do internal security duties? .. they won't just build camp and wait at the beach. if they try it our 127mm too melara otobreda rapid fire will eat them up during shore bombardment phase. 2 Hamilton class frigate 76mm guns will do justice to them. you can't deploy all your whole armed forces in one area. simple.
2) cat class carry fuel, food and logistics remember just one cat class ship escorted aradu to Australia few years back.. other auxiliary vessels will carry more supplies behind that's the general practice everywhere.
3) I meant anti-submarine lynx with depth charge... 3 lynx plus two more Augusta helicopter will provide anti-submarine screen.
- we have depth charge.
- aradu, shaldag, P18N, combatte IIIB FAC carries Depth charge.
4) aradu has 24 aspide SAM. no prove that Strella and blow pipe are obsolete
- aspide out range all even ingwe.

Patchesagain:


1. What 4 support ships?
2. 3 Frigates? You have one - and it is not operations, therefore, you have no qualified crew
3. 10 corvette/strike craft - most are not operational (the strike craft at least) and your corvettes are useless in conventional warfare

SAN will sink them with ease

1. cat class support ships.
2. 3 frigate, aradu, 2 Hamilton class.
3. says who?
the fleet will sink SAN in seconds.

agaugust:


Idiot, attached a web link to your machine gun photos....who are those masked men?

It could be patches himself.

lionel4power:
1 LST holds 600-700 men, 2 LST holds about 1400-1500 men.
no 1) support ships holds fuel, food and general logistics... they have a crane for offloading goods ashore.

no 2) no a single sub can't sink anything. we can deploy 5 helicopters with the fleet. 3 anti-ship lynx with depth charge. we will bring along our shaldag class is faster than your torpedo and it carries depth charge too.
no 3) like I said before the fleet will be fitted with potent air-defence systems... plus we will equip our infantrymen with strella and blowpipe surface to air. your hawk and rooivalk are not special.

1. you only have one LSV not two so its 700 men max, and no crane in the world is large/Long enough to offload goods ashore from a support ship.

2. Ask the Nato fleet we sunk a few years ago, they have much more sophisticated ASW systems than Nigeria, yet SAS Manthatisi remained undetected and sunk every single ship.

3. You dont have Strela SAMs and the Blowpipe is a cold war era missile, Our Rooivalk are armed with Mokopa ATMGs that have a 10km range and our Hawks are armed with Al Tariq bombs that have a 200km range.

Also none of your ships carry any sort of missile presently if im correct.

jln115:

Just because it can penetrate a T72( If its very very lucky) doesn't make it a Tank Destroyer, The Rooikat can penetrate the Armour of the T72 as well, it doesn't make it a Tank Destroyer, Modern day Tank Destroyers/(Anti Tank) are armed with ATGMs, they are specifically designed to take out enemy armour at safe distances. Were also Talking about 1980s T72, how is your Sagaie going to penetrate a modern T72 with ERA or Olifant with composite armour?? Why dont you also show me a modern day tank destroyer armed with a Gun smaller than 125mm.

Both the Rooikat and Sagaie have a primary role of being Recce vehicles and Secondary role of fire support, both are not Tank Destroyers, no commander in their right mind will ever send in Rooikat or Sagaie to face enemy Tanks, thats why you have your own tanks and artillery with direct fire capability. Both Rooikat and Sagaie will ALWAYS be out gunned and out Armoured by enemy tanks.

The only ignorant fvck here is you!!

Yet SA commanders use Ratel against t-55 in angola

jln115:

1. you only have one LSV not two so its 700 men max, and no crane in the world is large/Long enough to offload goods ashore from a support ship.

2. Ask the Nato fleet we sunk a few years ago, they have much more sophisticated ASW systems than Nigeria, yet SAS Manthatisi remained undetected and sunk every single ship.

3. You dont have Strela SAMs and the Blowpipe is a cold war era missile, Our Rooivalk are armed with Mokopa ATMGs that have a 10km range and our Hawks are armed with Al Tariq bombs that have a 200km range.

Also none of your ships carry any sort of missile presently if im correct.

two LST, one is inoperable at the moment. it can be fixed when the need arises.
- exercise.
-we have aspide which have 50km range. you won't even near the fleet.

lionel4power:
Yet SA commanders use Ratel against t-55 in angola

Only when there was no other option and at extremely close range, we never deployed Ratel 90 specifically to hunt enemy tanks, That's why we had the Ratel ZT3. At the battle of Cuito Cuanavale, most of the enemys tanks were taken out by Olifant, ZT3 and artillery fire, as said before, we never deployed the Ratel 90 as a tank destroyer.

lionel4power:
two LST, one is inoperable at the moment. it can be fixed when the need arises.
- exercise.
-we have aspide which have 50km range. you won't even near the fleet.

Well in that case we can arm the Al Tariq with an anti-ship warhead if the need arises, thus we can fire from 200km away.

Secondly only NNS Arudu is armed with Aspide SAMs which are totally outdated by todays standards, also the max range for the Aspide SAM is only 20km not 50km.

jln115:

1.We drove around, and why the f@ck is the enemy coming from behind all of a sudden??
2. I knew Egypt passed us 6 months ago you slow fvckers, how the f.ck did it take you so long to find out? either way it doesnt change much, Egypt has double the population of South Africa and an abundance of oil wealth it had to happen,but we still have a much higher GDP per capita, much much higher revenue, much higher credit rating, more advanced economy ect ect ect and BTW our economy is set to recover by the end of 2017
3. Rest of your post is tribalist B.S

Egypt has not surpassed South Africa yet. And Nigeria is not yet the 22nd largest economy on the planet. The IMF made 2020 predictions, which illiterate Nigerians sources understood to mean 2015 positions. All this is yet to happen. Not a single country in Africa has hit $800 billion, let alone the comical $1 trillion claimed by Nigerians here.

jln115:

Well in that case we can arm the Al Tariq with an anti-ship warhead if the need arises, thus we can fire from 200km away.

Secondly only NNS Arudu is armed with Aspide SAMs which are totally outdated by todays standards, also the max range for the Aspide SAM is only 20km not 50km.

it's aradu not arudu.
what is 'anti-ship warhead'.
aradu has 8x 40mm anti-air auto-Cannon.

the two Hamilton class has Phalanx CIWS which is combat proven.

we'll keep going in circles. anyway what I'm saying is that.. if push comes to shove, we can invade.

DieVluit:


Egypt has not surpassed South Africa yet. And Nigeria is not yet the 22nd largest economy on the planet. The IMF made 2020 predictions, which illiterate Nigerians sources understood to mean 2015 positions. All this is yet to happen.

They have mate, the IMF released their figures in April, but honestly GDP is just a small piece in the pie when one compares the wealth of a country, Both Nigeria and Egypt have massive populations and abundance of oil wealth, it would've happened the question was only when.

South Africa's economy is set to recover by the end of 2017, we still have one of thee largest stock exchanges in the world, we have by far the highest revenue out of any African country,The most advanced economy in Africa, our infrastructure rivals that of European countries and is second to none in Africa, By far the most technologically advanced African country..... Honestly i could go on but i think you get the picture.

jln115:

Well in that case we can arm the Al Tariq with an anti-ship warhead if the need arises, thus we can fire from 200km away.

Secondly only NNS Arudu is armed with Aspide SAMs which are totally outdated by todays standards, also the max range for the Aspide SAM is only 20km not 50km.

the Aspide is more recent than the aim-7 sparrow, it is based on the sparrow.
.
if Aspide is obsolete then so is the sparrow.

jln115:

They have mate, the IMF released their figures in April,

Not yet ---> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/3/e20d1c88-6e7f-11e5-8171-ba1968cf791a.html#axzz3sirSrGBT

This is October 2015 numbers.

What's happened is that writers said it's possible that it could happen. The $800 billion - $1 trillion numbers that have been quoted here do not exist.

lionel4power:
it's aradu not arudu.
what is 'anti-ship warhead'.
aradu has 8x 40mm anti-air auto-Cannon.

the two Hamilton class has Phalanx CIWS which is combat proven.

we'll keep going in circles. anyway what I'm saying is that.. if push comes to shove, we can invade.

My bad bru NNS Aradu!!

Well.....Its a warhead that's meant to sink ships!! Not difficult to understand mate!!

Your Bofors will also be pretty much useless against Al Tariq bombs travelling at over a 1000km/h

And your Phalanx wont be able to shoot down multiple Al Tariq bombs mate!!

You can invade?? Maybe Liberia but not South Africa mate, any country without an aircraft carrier will find it pretty much impossible to invade us by Sea!!

jln115:

My bad bru NNS Aradu!!

Well.....Its a warhead that's meant to sink ships!! Not difficult to understand mate!!

Your Bofors will also be pretty much useless against Al Tariq bombs travelling at over a 1000km/h

And your Phalanx wont be able to shoot down multiple Al Tariq bombs mate!!

You can invade?? Maybe Liberia but not South Africa mate, any country without an aircraft carrier will find it pretty much impossible to invade us by Sea!!

there's no such thing as anti-ship warhead. we only have.
Shaped charge
fragmentation
continuous rod
EFP
nuclear
chemical
biological warheads

even you should know that.

Al Tariq is not even in service with SAAF. you can't fight with what you don't have.

Blek zulus, greetings to you all. Mehn! It feel so good being the first and only trillion dollar based economy in africa. 1.6 trillion dollars oowwww! egypt is our closet rival at some billion dollars. southy is clearly out of the picture.

lionel4power:
there's no such thing as anti-ship warhead. we only have.
Shaped charge
fragmentation
continuous rod
EFP
nuclear
chemical
biological warheads

even you should know that.

Al Tariq is not even in service with SAAF. you can't fight with what you don't have.

Actually you do get anti-ship warhead mate, "The DF-26 is also able to carry anti-ship warheads" that was just a quick quote from Janes defence anyway lets not get stuck on the technical details shall we.

We build the Al-Tariq mate, its integrated on to our Hawk....When we need it we can just build them, same story with the Mokopa, in fact we even used the G6 in the Border war before it was officially in service with the SADF.

DieVluit:


Not yet ---> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/3/e20d1c88-6e7f-11e5-8171-ba1968cf791a.html#axzz3sirSrGBT

This is October 2015 numbers.

What's happened is that writers said it's possible that it could happen. The $800 billion - $1 trillion numbers that have been quoted here do not exist.

Well it depends, the World Bank still has us above Egpt as well as the CIA, the IMF however puts Egypt's GDP higher than ours.

Patchesagain:


So then the 105 on the Olifant will pen the T-72 as well?

If it's RHA armour T-72 yes, else it will struggle with ERA armour T-72.

DieVluit:


Egypt has not surpassed South Africa yet. And Nigeria is not yet the 22nd largest economy on the planet. The IMF made 2020 predictions, which illiterate Nigerians sources understood to mean 2015 positions. All this is yet to happen. Not a single country in Africa has hit $800 billion, let alone the comical $1 trillion claimed by Nigerians here.

I don't know if you derive joy posting rubbish.

Nigeria is actually 21th largest economy by gdp nominal and 22nd largest economy ppp.

It's not prediction but fact.

Nigeria GDP (ppp) is above $1 trillion and Egypt was close to $1 trillion the last time I checked following by South Africa which is still around $700 billion.

You need to learn how to do proper research so you can stop fooling yourself publicly.

DieVluit:


Egypt has not surpassed South Africa yet. And Nigeria is not yet the 22nd largest economy on the planet. The IMF made 2020 predictions, which illiterate Nigerians sources understood to mean 2015 positions. All this is yet to happen. Not a single country in Africa has hit $800 billion, let alone the comical $1 trillion claimed by Nigerians here.

Show us and quote where year 2020 projection was mentioned in the IMF report...

http://www.nigerianwatch.com/news/8271-latest-imf-figures-show-nieria-as-worlds-22nd-largest-economy-with-gdp-jof-11trn

You and the 3 South African who liked your rëtärded comment are all wasted embryos someone conceived in your nation of liars, frauds, and shameless dullards. Somalis are smarter than you all
.

agaugust:


SANDF has no 105mm Rooikat in service, we have debated this here and proved it from SANDF official website again and again. Stop messing up this thread by bringing up old settled proved arguments for debate all over again like a wasted embryo erroneously conceived.

Rooikat has 76mm gun in service.

Read properly mate, he said Olifant not Rooikat, and yes if a Sagaie with its 90mm gun can penetrate a T72 then the Rooikat with a much more powerful 76mm fully stabilized gun will penetrate a T72 as well.