vooks:

They had enough of bullsh*t asinine satanic doctrines such as selling sins and buying your way out of purgatory.

Catholics detest thinking. They are he shallowest in scriptures preferring to regurgitate whatever Rome thinks.

Look at a Catholic view on contraceptives. Hey can't think and have to wait till Rome gives instructions. How much AIDS has spread during Rome's censure if condoms. Then they shift their stance without any apology or remorse over their past errors.

Catholicism is a big cult receiving doctrines from Rome

follow the thread, why has your pastor canonized the dead against you pentecostal belief?

Empredboy:
bros you know one thing about the pentecostal? They change with time or after reading the Bible to a full understanding. What I mean is when I was younger, some of the pentecostal churches I attended were not observing the sharing of the holy communion but now they do it, now a 'strong man' of God has canonized a dead person of which they condemned, I can bet you that with they thread these pentecostal churches are going they will remember the meaning of 'Christ conquering death' that death has no power over the living an the dead. So they will start asking their dead bros and sis to pray for they.

Christ did not sanction satanic necromancy,idolatry and paganism in Catholicism my broda.

Empredboy:
follow the thread, why has your pastor canonized the dead against you pentecostal belief?

Define CANONIZED

Let me help you

Canonization (in American English and Oxford spelling) or canonisation (in British English) is the act by which the Orthodox, Oriental Orthodoxy, Roman Catholic, or Anglican Church declares that a person who has died was a saint, upon which declaration the person is included in the canon, or list, of recognized saints. Originally, people were recognized as saints without any formal process. Later, different processes, such as those used today in the Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches, were developed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonization

So it is declaring a dead person was a saint? Who is a SAINT?

A saint is a person who is recognized as having an exceptional degree of holiness, or likeness to God.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint


Do you see how lame your heart that Adeboye canonized somebody is? This desperate argument is so ret@rded that even marine invertebrates would not use it in an argument

vooks:

When you run of of knowledge and divine wisdom and start engaging dead people, you know your religion is dead. Adeboye has done none of that and I find it extremely silly that one would equate a belief that a dead person is in heaven with chatting with demons and familiar spirits. Did you know Queen of Heaven is a demon?

so Jesus talking with Moses and elijah during his transfiguration was a demon? Jesus commanding the dead like lazzarus and the officer daughter too was a demon too? Guy understanding this bible nah

vooks:


Christ did not sanction satanic necromancy,idolatry and paganism in Catholicism my broda.

I don't understand you

Empredboy:
so Jesus talking with Moses and elijah during his transfiguration was a demon? Jesus commanding the dead like lazzarus and the officer daughter too was a demon too? Guy understanding this bible nah

Jesus is God
Jesus is God

Because He is God, He can do what you can't;
1. He created and sustains the creation with His word
2. He gives eternal life
3. He speaks to dead men

So Jesus doing this is no license for you to do it. When a creature attempts to mimic the Creator, that is idolatry and blasphemy

Empredboy:
I don't understand you

I can't put it any simpler am sorry

italo:
Just some other examples of pentecostal clowns copying stupidly what they condemn Catholics for.

1. They condemn sacramentals then wear their own 'sacramentals' (Chosen apron)

2. They condemn the changing of water to wine but they drink petrol when their pastor says he's changed it to pineapple juice.

3. The condemn catholic vestments, then Adefarasin copies it and they love it.

4. They say the Pope has no right to say John Paul is in heaven, but they cannot condemn Adeboye for saying Awolowo is in heaven.

Hypocrites!

in addition
They don't call their pastors fr but they call them daddy.
They belief what ever their pastors say or prophesies even without consulting the Bible but accuse the Catholic of not reading the Bible

vooks:


Jesus is God
Jesus is God

Because He is God, He can do what you can't;
1. He created and sustains the creation with His word
2. He gives eternal life
3. He speaks to dead men

So Jesus doing this is no license for you to do it. When a creature attempts to mimic the Creator, that is idolatry and blasphemy

where is your faith? Christ said if u have faith u can move mountain. Also we Christians are Christ like and we in Christ we can do all this through him. So with faith, moving of mountains doesn't mean moving mountain everest or kilimajaro but doing what is impossible for non Christian to do. Now adeboye has moved a mountain by declaring that awolowo is in heaven but you a shallow Christian won't understand. Just as Christ said destroy this temple then in three days I will rebuild it. Non Christians and shallow Christians like u kicked against it. So if u car belief in Christ process how will you belief in his people (church) process. Remember he said his kingdom is not of this world so whatever the church does is not forth the world to understand because we are in the world but not of the world. Your church is of the world that is why you understand ur church but catholic is not of the world which is the reason we are not understood.

Ubenedictus:

sorry, i do not have d energy to search nl to find ur friends who have put a stamp of anathema on everything they think is catholic. I have met them before and gladly invite u to search for dem if u wish.

u may also like to present instances?

Your case is an instance of such allegation.

You claim pentecostals condemn canonization without showing the examples I requested.

Show me two or three examples of people who condemned canonization and where these people supported it when Pastor Adeboye 'canonized' mama H.I.D Awolowo .

Ubenedictus:

tell me an interesting story. Does oyedepo's church have a creed? Or a belief statement where on can easily check their beliefs or is it each pastor 4 himself?

I don't know if there's a creed or belief statement anywhere.

What I know is that they teach the Trinity as evidenced in many of their recorded sermons.

Ubenedictus:


they claim the pope cannot declear that a dead xtian is in heaven, but pastor adeboye can. They will come here and attempt to defend him.


I once had a friend he was a member of oyedepo's 'church', we happened to discuss many issues regarding doctrines, he would demonise catholics for calling their priest 'rev fr' but he didnt see d hypocrisy of calling oyedepo 'papa'. The issue that interested me d most was dat this guy didnt blieve in d trinity(he picked his opinion from a tele evangelist), we spent close to a year discussing trinity, i wasted my time taking him through passage by passage and showing how in d fullness of time God revealed himself as a mutual indwelling of 3 persons, he told me that my explanation were fine but that an unbeliever wit a bible won't be able to read trinity there so he concluded it was a theory of man, d issue bcame too hot, i had to let it be. 6months later dis guy claim he now believed in d trinity, how come? And influential pastor/writter taught it in his book so he accepted it as true.

After several such case, i came to d conclusion that most protestants don't care what d truth is, if their pastor or writter is against d catholic d average protestant will do d same and he will maintain d catholic practice is wrong not minding d fact his church has a similar one. It is hypocrisy but d protestant doesnt care, ro far he has sumtin to protest about.

And what about you? All that you believe is it because u are after truth or because some gay priest told you so?
You are a hypocrite yourself

Look how catholics, Anglican , pentecostal etc will claim they are all right, others are wrong cus they get their dogmas from the holy spirit. This holy spirit must be a confusionist, deceiving people since 33AD

Lol una wan try to defend una new way I will not gree u must keep on criticising, since the people who taught u, have now become the evil u now fight, false christians believing what ur founders push u to believe, u are so not different from the pharisees of old always wanting to feel important, Catholicism has, is and will always be true like it or not, fight it or not.

italo:
After many years of "Pentecostals" demonizing Catholics for the practice of Canonization of Saints, one of their most revered "pastors" Adeboye, has now declared that he has no doubt that HID Awolowo is in heaven (the same thing that the Pope does in a Canonization).

You are taking his quote out of context, remember that catholics criteria for being a saint is different from that of pentecostals. A pentecostal believes that when a man is born again, he's a saint. But a catholic believes that one becomes a saint after death, after passing through some criteria.
That alone makes your logic flawed.

Now the same "Pentecostals" that call the Pope and the Church evil for daring to declare that a person is in heaven...are telling those criticizing Adeboye not to speak ill of a "man of God."

Does Adeboye now believe in Canonization of Saints or does he believe that his own Canonization is holy and that of the Pope is evil?

This your US against THEM stance is funny.

This is the same hypocrisy that pentecostal exhibit on virtually every Catholic doctrine. E.g Holy Communion, Celebration of Christmas, Easter etc. They criticize...then they copy it.

Hypocritical pentecostals are free to run away and pretend to didn't see this thread, as usual.

vooks:

What was Saul's crime?
1 Chronicles 10:13-14

Whatever it was, I'm sure it wasn't a misunderstanding and misuse of the word Semantics.

PastorAIO:


Whatever it was, I'm sure it wasn't a misunderstanding and misuse of the word Semantics.

It was chatting with the dead

vooks:


It was chatting with the dead

No it wasn't. It was consulting a witch.

PastorAIO:


No it wasn't. It was consulting a witch.

It was necromancy. You think God would have given him a pass had the witch made him coffee

vooks:

It was necromancy. You think God would have given him a pass had the witch made him coffee

please show me the passage which said it was necromancy.

"Vox Populi vox Dei", is The Theme of The Wisdom of Solomon. In The Name of jesus Christ, whatsoever a "Born Again" christian ordains on earth will be ordained for him/her in Heaven, so empowered Jesus. Adeboye is a "Born Again" Christian like any Pope in Rome or Alexandra. Adeboye can beatify, canolise and discern any Righteous human in Spirit and in the Company of our Lord Jesus Christ in Heaven. Remember that the Late Oluwawole Awolowo was an Evangelist and a "Born Again" Christian. He, like HID, is also a Saint in Heaven.

PastorAIO:


please show me the passage which said it was necromancy.

I did

vooks:

I did

I don't know of Catholics doing anything that Saul did.

I've never heard of Catholics summoning the dead.

I've never heard of Catholics divining by using the spirits of dead people.

PastorAIO:


I don't know of Catholics doing anything that Saul did.

I've never heard of Catholics summoning the dead.

I've never heard of Catholics divining by using the spirits of dead people.

Saul talked to a dead Samuel
Catholics attempt to converse with dead 'saints'

PastorAIO:


No it wasn't. It was consulting a witch.

Consulting a witch to do what, his laundry?

vooks:

Saul talked to a dead Samuel
Catholics attempt to converse with dead 'saints'

Catholics converse with dead saints!!

Please can you show me where I can research this further because this is all new news to me.

vooks:

Consulting a witch to do what, his laundry?

Consulting the Witch was the crime. The Witches craft of summoning dead spirits and mediumship was forbidden. Not talking to the dead cos That would damn all of christianity from the very start.

52The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many

Even in my family there are stories of an aunt who nearly died, but when she was in a coma she saw my granddad and he told her to go back that it was not her time yet. I'm sure to you, that is necromancy too.

Apart from the Adeboye part of thread which is the main core (I'm not interested in that part, the man is just a charlatan in m opinion) , my interest is in your belief that the dead in christ are inert and are not a part of the communion.


8And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. 9And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Some people are born with brain but forget it totally when dey do several things, eg vooks sorry but it seems u top the list.

ARE you forgetting that the dead ask God when will be the punishment of the evil doers abi u close eye when you reach dere abi ur brain enter sleep mode.

PastorAIO:


Catholics converse with dead saints!!

Please can you show me where I can research this further because this is all new news to me.

Negro please. Does Virgin Mary ever speak to men?

Consulting the Witch was the crime.

Nope, it was talking to the dead

The Witches craft of summoning dead spirits and mediumship was forbidden.

See your idiocy? If talking to dead men is cool, why would using human agency to accomplish this be a sin?

Not talking to the dead cos That would damn all of christianity from the very start.

Utter foolishness. Is Christianity founded on communication with the dead?
Jesus disappeared for 3 days during his death. He only resumed communion with the disciples AFTER resurrection

Even in my family there are stories of an aunt who nearly died, but when she was in a coma she saw my granddad and he told her to go back that it was not her time yet. I'm sure to you, that is necromancy too.

I don't need your bullsh*t tales

Apart from the Adeboye part of thread which is the main core (I'm not interested in that part, the man is just a charlatan in m opinion) , my interest is in your belief that the dead in christ are inert and are not a part of the communion.

Because God forbids communicating with the dead.
The rich man had to beg for Lazarus to be resurrected so he could go and warn his living brethren. This is because the dead in their state are cut off from the living

8And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. 9And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Negro,
This is heaven. This is God receiving worship from the spirits of the departed. The spirits are alive or animated but cut off from the living humans like you and me

paulGrundy:


You are taking his quote out of context, remember that catholics criteria for being a saint is different from that of pentecostals. A pentecostal believes that when a man is born again, he's a saint. But a catholic believes that one becomes a saint after death, after passing through some criteria.
That alone makes your logic flawed.



This your US against THEM stance is funny.

It will help you understand if you put aside the appellation: "saint," and focus on the essence of the issue

At Canonization, Catholic declare that a person has lived a good life and was right with God when he/she died...so he/she is now in heaven

this has been condemned by pentecostals for decades. They say the pope has no right to claim that Mother Theresa is in heaven.

Now that is the exact thing that Adeboye has done. He has 'Canonized' 'St. Awolowo' in the Catholic sense...which pentecostals have condemned for long

That is the issue you are deviating from.

italo:


It will help you understand if you put aside the appellation: "saint," and focus on the essence of the issue

At Canonization, Catholic declare that a person has lived a good life and was right with God when he/she died...so he/she is now in heaven

this has been condemned by pentecostals for decades. They say the pope has no right to claim that Mother Theresa is in heaven.

Now that is the exact thing that Adeboye has done. He has 'Canonized' 'St. Awolowo' in the Catholic sense...which pentecostals have condemned for long

That is the issue you are deviating from.

italo is being economical with the truth.
Before a saint is declared, somebody must have prayed to the dead Saint and a miracle/sign effected through this communication with the dead. The miracle must then be verified by Rome

vooks:


italo is being economical with the truth.
Before a saint is declared, somebody must have prayed to the dead Saint and a miracle/sign effected through this communication with the dead. The miracle must then be verified by Rome

1. The bold is false...it doesn't apply in all cases.

do you agree it's false...or do you want me to take the paint to prove you wrong and ignorant of what you're talking about?

2. When protestants demonize canonization, it's not just the prayers to saints that they demonize...they demonize the very act of declaring that the person lived a good life and died right with God and is in heaven...which Adeboye has now done. focus on that.

If Adeboye hasn't prayed and received a miracle from Awolowo, perhaps that's because those are not the essence of canonization.

vooks:

Jesus is God, he created the heaven. Since you follow Jesus, what have you created lately?

Jesus being God talks to dead people, he gives eternal life but you can't because you are a creature. He also died and went and preached to the dead yet you can't do that. Necromancy will lead you to hell. Virgin Mary is a demon as Mary is busy in heaven. She can't see you. If you stop worshipping Devils, you may meet her on the last day

Reasoning with primitive lowIQ Negroes is a real pain

You have forgotten that Christ is in me and I am in Chriso Christ in me can speak to the saints and I can speak to the saints through Christ.

vooks:

Fool, necromancy is CONTACTING the dead
According to you, is Samuel a saint or not? Is he living or dead?

Prove the bold!

Samuel is alive.