Hello my Nairaland brothers, I think it is unfair jumping to conclusions about lafolabi so fast. He has worked for me on 2 occasions and he has never asked to supply materials. I think with any contractor you should always buy materials yourself. Let's all relax and enjoy this project please. .

cheers and I appreciate every one of you in this section as you have contributed so much.
Mex

Thanks so much sir
I will continue to update you, day to day improvement. God bless you

befto:
Nothing new here Oga Maverick.
It's the hidden agenda that causes all this chaos.
You do a job. I supply materials. How hard can it be?
It just seems like a client supplying materials is such a big deal when it should infact be good news for the contractor (unless she/he is planning on scheming things off the side).

They will tell you it is cheaper for them to supply materials and they are doing you a favour by doing so. Who asked for such favour? This is supposed to be a simple business transaction.

Next time I go into work I will tell my Oga that I will supply the SAN/network/CRM solution. Just pay me all the money upfront...

Interesting! Life is easier when a simple gentleman agreement on contract can be honored.

A good contractor should bore the risk for all jobs done on site. Not the owner. So he has the right to choose what works for him. Likewise, the owner has the exclusive right to choose a contractor that can deliver a good job at his terms and conditions.

Owners have the right to supply all their materials provided scope of work clearly identify the responsibilities of the contractors and subtrades.

Here's the area I get confused. Why should the contractor provide an estimate for materials he's not providing? Aren't the quantity surveyor to handle such? Providing estimate for materials you're not supplying is a recipe for disaster because when things goes wrong, the contractor will have to take responsibility except he's lucky to have a compassionate client to work with.

For me, I like roles defined and responsibilities clearly spelt out from the very beginning. We don't have to do all jobs. The day lafolabi steps into the project, he has accepted the responsibility to make good all works done by the subtrades. Isn't that a decision that needs to be carefully addressed? Which I believe he did.

Till date, there's no one who can claim I rejected his/her offer to supply materials. We just need to be upfront and clear about who does what and who warrants what.

Oga Befto, I agree with you that there shouldn't be a problem with owner supplying materials. But to avoid conflict, it's far better you allow the tailor who measured you to buy the clothing materials and sew your clothe.

I had this experience with Wichtech in one of my project. They measured the house, gave the estimate and I paid them only for the installers to come back and tell me there's need for extra 30m. My response was "When are you finishing my work"

brabus:


Interesting! Life is easier when a simple gentleman agreement on contract can be honored.

A good contractor should bore the risk for all jobs done on site. Not the owner. So he has the right to choose what works for him. Likewise, the owner has the exclusive right to choose a contractor that can deliver a good job at his terms and conditions.

Owners have the right to supply all their materials provided scope of work clearly identify the responsibilities of the contractors and subtrades.

Here's the area I get confused. Why should the contractor provide an estimate for materials he's not providing? Aren't the quantity surveyor to handle such? Providing estimate for materials you're not supplying is a recipe for disaster because when things goes wrong, the contractor will have to take responsibility except he's lucky to have a compassionate client to work with.

For me, I like roles defined and responsibilities clearly spelt out from the very beginning. We don't have to do all jobs. The day lafolabi steps into the project, he has accepted the responsibility to make good all works done by the subtrades. Isn't that a decision that needs to be carefully addressed? Which I believe he did.

Till date, there's no one who can claim I rejected his/her offer to supply materials. We just need to be upfront and clear about who does what and who warrants what.

Oga Befto, I agree with you that there shouldn't be a problem with owner supplying materials. But to avoid conflict, it's far better you allow the tailor who measured you to buy the clothing materials and sew your clothe.

I had this experience with Wichtech in one of my project. They measured the house, gave the estimate and I paid them only for the installers to come back and tell me there's need for extra 30m. My response was "When are you finishing my work"

Interesting.

I supplied all the materials for this project only for the last Iron rod which I was absent and can not handover to any because I can only trust myself.

If clients buy materials it remove lot of stress from the builder, the builder will love to procure his material due to quality and specifications and his personal certificate.

@ Brabus: Your point of providing an estimate for material you are not procuring is very valid. I support it from all angles and from standard contract procurement procedure acceptable world wide. When you provide estimate it is usually plus or minus, when it is minus the client is happy and nobody hears any story and when it is plus wahala go come. The best thing in this case is to have an intermediary that would provide the quantities for both the builder and the client. The client engage such a person and he does not even need to meet the builder. I have done such for a Nairalander in Diaspora (though at a cost) he used it raise the structure even in his absence. But the problem with some of our client is that preparing an estimate is not just a child's play it is time and energy consuming especially for a complex project.

mavverick:
Sir Fastshipping.

I agree with you 100%, its just such a shame. I believe that there should be nothing wrong with supplying materials. Or if the contractor has a problem with it, state it from day 1 and everyone can move on. At the end of the day, its not by force, I am not obliged to give work to anyone and also no contractor is obliged to accept work that I offer them.

What is fxxking shocking about the whole thing is the response he came back with. I am glad its not just me who has had such an experience.

Other contractor might have false fully Warn off the project...... This is naija

I think some people are missing the point here, I am not saying that Lafolabi is a bad person or does a bad job, in fact if you look at my comment history, you will notice that I have always praised his work, and if i wasn't impressed by it, I wouldn't get in touch with him. I think we know some contractors here who are terrible and have had numerous complaints despite false pretence and false packaging.....

What happened was simple, I contacted him, he went to my site on several occasions, led me on, and promised to give me a quotation till finishing. Was genuinely considering using his services.

When i asked him why i have not heard from him, he said he heard I don't pay contractors, and I found that absurd..

oga lafolabi pls apologise profusely. looking at maverick point I felt you need to apologise. tx. I believe you can still have a lot to do together.

Thanks the great aventures. I appreciate your advice.
It could have been better if the message was sent to my email, phone contact or WhatsApp.
Some readers don't have the ability to read and understand.
Oga mavverick, I sincerely apologize for the disappointments and my comments. Forgive and forget.
I thank all good Nairalander that always make sure that peace reign in this Nairaland.and to those that believe in us.God will continue to bless you abundantly. I give glory, honor and all adoration to God Almighty.

Capentry form work.
Iron bender also commence preparation.
Cutting and bending of iron rod. See pictures later.

Formwork is an ancillary construction,use as a mould for a structure. Into this mould, fresh concrete is placed only to harden subsequently
Is a temporary used to contain poured concrete and to mould it to the required dimensions and to support until is able to support itself.

lafolabi:
Formwork is an ancillary construction,use as a mould for a structure. Into this mould, fresh concrete is placed only to harden subsequently
Is a temporary used to contain poured concrete and to mould it to the required dimensions and to support until is able to support itself.

Explicit!!!


What a comprehensive answer to a simple question ' What a Formwork is and Functions are?


Ride on sir, God is with you.

@Brabus,
I dont have any issue with contractors supplying materials. Afterall I cant supply all the material I need so yes in some cases it can help if the contractor supplies this but I do feel iritated when the contractor insists that he/she supplies the material.

Yes this should all be agree upfront but in this day and age I also believe we should be flexible at times.

Now I am not an engineer or contractor but why should estimates change just because the contractor chooses to supply the materials?

If you come in and give me a quote qty/type of materials needed why should it be a problem if I supply exaclty what you have requested for?

These are only estimates and can be over/under quoted. if they are under quoted and more are needed then I have no problem buying more.

I once asked a contractor this question? if you quote me and supply materials for my project and you dont use all the materials quoted for will you be honest enough to tell me so or just pocket the money?

I leave that for all the contractors to honestly answer.

Please note there are both dishonest clients as well as contractors so I am not taking sides here.

I am just going with my experience to date which is very limited to say the least.......

brabus:


Interesting! Life is easier when a simple gentleman agreement on contract can be honored.

A good contractor should bore the risk for all jobs done on site. Not the owner. So he has the right to choose what works for him. Likewise, the owner has the exclusive right to choose a contractor that can deliver a good job at his terms and conditions.

Owners have the right to supply all their materials provided scope of work clearly identify the responsibilities of the contractors and subtrades.

Here's the area I get confused. Why should the contractor provide an estimate for materials he's not providing? Aren't the quantity surveyor to handle such? Providing estimate for materials you're not supplying is a recipe for disaster because when things goes wrong, the contractor will have to take responsibility except he's lucky to have a compassionate client to work with.

For me, I like roles defined and responsibilities clearly spelt out from the very beginning. We don't have to do all jobs. The day lafolabi steps into the project, he has accepted the responsibility to make good all works done by the subtrades. Isn't that a decision that needs to be carefully addressed? Which I believe he did.

Till date, there's no one who can claim I rejected his/her offer to supply materials. We just need to be upfront and clear about who does what and who warrants what.

Oga Befto, I agree with you that there shouldn't be a problem with owner supplying materials. But to avoid conflict, it's far better you allow the tailor who measured you to buy the clothing materials and sew your clothe.

I had this experience with Wichtech in one of my project. They measured the house, gave the estimate and I paid them only for the installers to come back and tell me there's need for extra 30m. My response was "When are you finishing my work"

@Adventures,
I don't entirely agree with your comments here. When it is minus and contractor is supplying does the client benefit from this minus or does the contractor pocket it? Likewise if more materials are needed then its only fair (if materials supplied have been used soley for the client's project) for the client to bare the cost. Afterall contractors are nto father Christmas.. I have borne all extra costs given to me but trust me I have never had a contractor come back to me and tell me here is 100k for materials that were quoted for but not needed anymore.

I am sure others may have experienced this but not me. Maybe my contractors have always under-quoted me hence the need for extra materials not the other way round.

Aventures:
@ Brabus: Your point of providing an estimate for material you are not procuring is very valid. I support it from all angles and from standard contract procurement procedure acceptable world wide. When you provide estimate it is usually plus or minus, when it is minus the client is happy and nobody hears any story and when it is plus wahala go come. The best thing in this case is to have an intermediary that would provide the quantities for both the builder and the client. The client engage such a person and he does not even need to meet the builder. I have done such for a Nairalander in Diaspora (though at a cost) he used it raise the structure even in his absence. But the problem with some of our client is that preparing an estimate is not just a child's play it is time and energy consuming especially for a complex project.

@befto sir, you know yourself and your heart better than any other person, your level of understanding and your kind heart may be far better than others. from experience I want to tell there are different types of clients we have experienced. when there's leftover no problem but moment there is shortage you suddenly become a thief without anymeans to prove yourself. for instance a client buys cement say 500 bags ti be used for a specific target of work and it will be used for a period of time, all the period of use the client is not available to witness the use and suddenly the cement didn't hit the target how would the
contractor be justified? no way because he has got no witness. Client Procuring material is good when he has a store keeper that will take record of material usage. that way both client vand contractor would be protected from any undue accusation.

Hmnnn Client vs Contractors in building industry. ........
A smart client will give his/her contractors free hand to operate. Mark my word 'smart' I am talking from experience


You see, u may find it difficult to believe unless a bill is prepared by quantity surveyor their is possibility of plus/minus. I tell u mostly plus (eyi to le lori e lon peni ...ile)..


I have experience both sides hence my opinion!

Contractual relationship is evidenced by,an offer and acceptance of the offer.
Depends on the agreement reached between the two parties.
There are construction company you can not buy materials for.
There are client that will never buy materials for his/ her contractor.
There is different between contract and just supervisions.
You can buy materials and get someone to supervise the project.and the responsibility is shared by the material provider and the supervisor
Contract is both materials, labour and supervision. And the contractor is taking all responsibility.we all pray to work and make profits, otherwise it doesn't what doing.thanks

lafolabi:
Contractual relationship is evidenced by,an offer and acceptance of the offer.
Depends on the agreement reached between the two parties.
There are construction company you can not buy materials for.
There are client that will never buy materials for his/ her contractor.
There is different between contract and just supervisions.
You can buy materials and get someone to supervise the project.and the responsibility is shared by the material provider and the supervisor
Contract is both materials, labour and supervision. And the contractor is taking all responsibility.we all pray to work and make profits, otherwise it doesn't what doing.thanks

@lafolabi.d tones of ur conclusion here suggesting u gain from procuring material. (Aimoye gbese)
A client here once asked for 25percent reduction in the bills present in which I suggested he procure materials. ....he decline.




-----
At the end of the day.
Na me dey feel am

Not all the time my brother it works for some people and doesn't for some it depends on who the client is, a very knowledgeable client might decide to do the quantity billing on his or her own. but what some contractors fail to realize is that once you start arguing that YOU MUST BUY THE MATERIALS then you have raised a red flag. just simply draft an agreement that the client has chosen to buy the materials on his own incase gbege go happen later, you already have it all documented because we have seen where a contractor inflates prices and also quantity all the dirty practices have made most clients prefer to buy materials themselves considering the fortune made by some contractors on materials. I have seen a project here on nairaland and i laughed when i saw the quotation i shook my head but its business the cost the guy quoted for the raft foundation only will fill the foundation, complete the DPC and also start block work but HEY its business sometimes you meet very rich clients.
THANK ME LATER

segcymoor:
Hmnnn Client vs Contractors in building industry. ........
A smart client will give his/her contractors free hand to operate. Mark my word 'smart' I am talking from experience


You see, u may find it difficult to believe unless a bill is prepared by quantity surveyor their is possibility of plus/minus. I tell u mostly plus (eyi to le lori e lon peni ...ile)..


I have experience both sides hence my opinion!

I incurred 250k in one small work at surulere just of recent.just to keep my integrity.
One's you take a contract it became your cross.

Aventures:
@ Brabus: Your point of providing an estimate for material you are not procuring is very valid. I support it from all angles and from standard contract procurement procedure acceptable world wide. When you provide estimate it is usually plus or minus, when it is minus the client is happy and nobody hears any story and when it is plus wahala go come. The best thing in this case is to have an intermediary that would provide the quantities for both the builder and the client. The client engage such a person and he does not even need to meet the builder. I have done such for a Nairalander in Diaspora (though at a cost) he used it raise the structure even in his absence. But the problem with some of our client is that preparing an estimate is not just a child's play it is time and energy consuming especially for a complex project.

Aventures if you are doing work on a labour only basis there is no problem or should I say there should not be any problem providing the list of materials that you need and this is standard practice world over.

I do refurbishment all the time and no one but me gets to choose what tiles, fittings etc that I want they just tell me how many sq meters I need which will equally be given by the store if you take in the measurements.

Personally I do not think a contractor, builder has to work for anyone unless both parties are happy with the arrangements. I would even be happier with one who turns down the job upfront. Many will take it and cause you unnecessary stress and aggravation.

Iron bender working on the first floor slab reinforcement.
This Reinforcement is a consequence that will strengthen an organism's future behavior.or enhancement of behavior. See pictures

@Aventures.
I agree with you here but can I ask one question?

if client agrees for contractor to supply materials and this scenario happens where more cement is needed, who bares the cost?
Are you saying the contractor will use his own money to cover this shortage?

Aventures:
@befto sir, you know yourself and your heart better than any other person, your level of understanding and your kind heart may be far better than others. from experience I want to tell there are different types of clients we have experienced. when there's leftover no problem but moment there is shortage you suddenly become a thief without anymeans to prove yourself. for instance a client buys cement say 500 bags ti be used for a specific target of work and it will be used for a period of time, all the period of use the client is not available to witness the use and suddenly the cement didn't hit the target how would the
contractor be justified? no way because he has got no witness. Client Procuring material is good when he has a store keeper that will take record of material usage. that way both client vand contractor would be protected from any undue accusation.

Well said.
Believe me I have experienced this extremly high over-infaltion by a contractor here.

richardquest:
Not all the time my brother it works for some people and doesn't for some it depends on who the client is, a very knowledgeable client might decide to do the quantity billing on his or her own. but what some contractors fail to realize is that once you start arguing that YOU MUST BUY THE MATERIALS then you have raised a red flag. just simply draft an agreement that the client has chosen to buy the materials on his own incase gbege go happen later, you already have it all documented because we have seen where a contractor inflates prices and also quantity all the dirty practices have made most clients prefer to buy materials themselves considering the fortune made by some contractors on materials. I have seen a project here on nairaland and i laughed when i saw the quotation i shook my head but its business the cost the guy quoted for the raft foundation only will fill the foundation, complete the DPC and also start block work but HEY its business sometimes you meet very rich clients.
THANK ME LATER

VERY TRUE

gabbytabby:


Aventures if you are doing work on a labour only basis there is no problem or should I say there should not be any problem providing the list of materials that you need and this is standard practice world over.

I do refurbishment all the time and no one but me gets to choose what tiles, fittings etc that I want they just tell me how many sq meters I need which will equally be given by the store if you take in the measurements.

Personally I do not think a contractor, builder has to work for anyone unless both parties are happy with the arrangements. I would even be happier with one who turns down the job upfront. Many will take it and cause you unnecessary stress and aggravation.

befto:
@Aventures.
I agree with you here but can I ask one question?

if client agrees for contractor to supply materials and this scenario happens where more cement is needed, who bares the cost?
Are you saying the contractor will use his own money to cover this shortage?

in a contractual agreement, plus or minus is strictly contractors problem. One thing about contract is this in some area you will make gain even extra and in some area you will encounter loss at the end of the project ie either the contractor make profit, loss or no gain no loss I have every experience all the three.

But in honest truth if client procure material and the contractor/engineer supervises, in this case it will work perfect if the client will take responsibility of putting his own person in charge of dispensing and recording the material so that the contractor is free of allegations if there is a shortage in any material. Otherwise the client must have absolute trust in his engineer/contractor and must be ready not to question is integrity if there is any shortage of material.

Totally agree with you here.
It's the client's responsibility to ensure that his materials are safe when he/she supplies them but we all know there are some contractors (no names mentioned) who go around with their cars to their client's site and steal materials so this also affects the client.
When you buy your materials and the contractor steals them then the client will always lose.

So all in all whichever approach you take na God dey help us.

It's just a sorry affair when you hear so many stories of client/contractor fighting over such issues.

Like someone said earlier on. The contractor should say No if he/she cant work with the client's terms. its a simple as that.

Don't collect the job and then try to sabotage or steal materials because the client has chosen to supply them (something you agreed to).

Aventures:
in a contractual agreement, plus or minus is strictly contractors problem. One thing about contract is this in some area you will make gain even extra and in some area you will encounter loss at the end of the project ie either the contractor make profit, loss or no gain no loss I have every experience all the three.

But in honest truth if client procure material and the contractor/engineer supervises, in this case it will work perfect if the client will take responsibility of putting his own person in charge of dispensing and recording the material so that the contractor is free of allegations if there is a shortage in any material. Otherwise the client must have absolute trust in his engineer/contractor and must be ready not to question is integrity if there is any shortage of material.

Views

You need not to tell me i know the contractor already i can feel it in my bones that its thesame person i said i saw his quotation and i shook my head

befto:
Well said.
Believe me I have experienced this extremly high over-infaltion by a contractor here.

Iron bender, fixing the beam reinforcement.

lafolabi:
Thanks the great aventures. I appreciate your advice.
It could have been better if the message was sent to my email, phone contact or WhatsApp.
Some readers don't have the ability to read and understand.
Oga mavverick, I sincerely apologize for the disappointments and my comments. Forgive and forget.
I thank all good Nairalander that always make sure that peace reign in this Nairaland.and to those that believe in us.God will continue to bless you abundantly. I give glory, honor and all adoration to God Almighty.

Lafolabi

No hard feelings. Thank you very much.
I enjoy reading your posts and often learn a lot as well.