Sorry.

Ganoderma:


Please don't call me names.

I have never called you names. Its just so bad that people cant seem to argue their points without resorting to name calling.

Sheeeesh!!

Guys calm down

Evil forest or wateva u call yourself .am just laughing at you .These people are devils u dnt knw them too well . wicked n hardened criminals. Pretenders

Ganoderma

1 Peter 3:18 is pretty clear. Jesus was put to death in the Flesh and made alive in the spirit.

Please read carefully, the scripture said he was made alive "In the Spirit" and not made alive "As a Spirit" or made alive "A Spirit". The term "in the Spirit" does not mean "a spirit". The apostle John was "in the spirit" in Rev. 1:10. Romans 8:9 tells us that the whole congregation was "in the Spirit." Does this mean John and the early church had become spirits and lost their fleshly bodies? No! Read Romans 8:11, it makes it clear.

This is one of the heresy of Jehovah Witnesses supplied from your elders in the US and you can't ask God Almighty to show you the truth.

If your claim is that Jesus was resurrected in flesh, then I am very curious to know how you would explain what happened in Luke 24:15-30.

What happened in the passage you are referring to? I fail to see the connection, care to explain

The only reason people think JW's turn the bible upside down is because they cannot comprehend how we could possibly have such depth of knowledge about the things written in the bible. And because we use various bible verses with so much dexterity, it leaves them flustered.

The people you leave flustered are people that don't read their Bible, I mean really research the Bible and read it. Deep and careful study of JW teachings on Jesus will show you that JW is not different from most of the 1001 heresies that have been trying to populate God's word for centuries. It's old wine in a new bottle tactic. You guys can get away with such claims only with uninformed people.

A lot of our teachings are based on the bible and because they are mostly in direct opposite of what most are groomed to beleive, the only logical reaction is to reject our teachings.

Alot of what you believe is true and a lot is still not true. We judge you by what is not true. Most importantly, it is the claim of your founders that have disturbed me. Your founders have claimed so many things that never came to pass. The Bible said when a prophet who claim he is from God makes a prophecy and that prophecy doesn't come true - that is how you know that prophet is a liar and not from God.

The rejection comes not necessarily because people think what we are saying is wrong. It comes because they infact see the truth about what we teach but cannot bring themselves to accept it as the truth.

This statement will fly with the ignorant, not with the informed.

You would never ever find a JW that would argue bible truths with you without quoting from it. Yet, the same people who claim that JW's turn the bible upside down never ever quote a single scripture to back up their reasons for inferring.

Really, all that I have been quoting is from the Quran?

alexis:
Ganoderma



Please read carefully, the scripture said he was made alive "In the Spirit" and not made alive "As a Spirit" or made alive "A Spirit". The term "in the Spirit" does not mean "a spirit". The apostle John was "in the spirit" in Rev. 1:10. Romans 8:9 tells us that the whole congregation was "in the Spirit." Does this mean John and the early church had become spirits and lost their fleshly bodies? No! Read Romans 8:11, it makes it clear.

This is one of the heresy of Jehovah Witnesses supplied from your elders in the US and you can't ask God Almighty to show you the truth.

If your claim is that Jesus was resurrected in flesh, then I am very curious to know how you would explain what happened in Luke 24:15-30.

What happened in the passage you are referring to? I fail to see the connection, care to explain



The people you leave flustered are people that don't read their Bible, I mean really research the Bible and read it. Deep and careful study of JW teachings on Jesus will show you that JW is not different from most of the 1001 heresies that have been trying to populate God's word for centuries. It's old wine in a new bottle tactic. You guys can get away with such claims only with uninformed people.



Alot of what you believe is true and a lot is still not true. We judge you by what is not true. Most importantly, it is the claim of your founders that have disturbed me. Your founders have claimed so many things that never came to pass. The Bible said when a prophet who claim he is from God makes a prophecy and that prophecy doesn't come true - that is how you know that prophet is a liar and not from God.



This statement will fly with the ignorant, not with the informed.



Really, all that I have been quoting is from the Quran?

Oh no! Not again!!

alexis:
Ganoderma



Please read carefully, the scripture said he was made alive "In the Spirit" and not made alive "As a Spirit" or made alive "A Spirit". The term "in the Spirit" does not mean "a spirit". The apostle John was "in the spirit" in Rev. 1:10. Romans 8:9 tells us that the whole congregation was "in the Spirit." Does this mean John and the early church had become spirits and lost their fleshly bodies? No! Read Romans 8:11, it makes it clear.

This is one of the heresy of Jehovah Witnesses supplied from your elders in the US and you can't ask God Almighty to show you the truth.

If your claim is that Jesus was resurrected in flesh, then I am very curious to know how you would explain what happened in Luke 24:15-30.

What happened in the passage you are referring to? I fail to see the connection, care to explain



The people you leave flustered are people that don't read their Bible, I mean really research the Bible and read it. Deep and careful study of JW teachings on Jesus will show you that JW is not different from most of the 1001 heresies that have been trying to populate God's word for centuries. It's old wine in a new bottle tactic. You guys can get away with such claims only with uninformed people.



Alot of what you believe is true and a lot is still not true. We judge you by what is not true. Most importantly, it is the claim of your founders that have disturbed me. Your founders have claimed so many things that never came to pass. The Bible said when a prophet who claim he is from God makes a prophecy and that prophecy doesn't come true - that is how you know that prophet is a liar and not from God.



This statement will fly with the ignorant, not with the informed.



Really, all that I have been quoting is from the Quran?

Its really is awesome that people take the time to do deep and careful study of JW teachings just so they could conjour baseless reversal arguments. I wish they would do such deep and careful research on the whole Bible.
If they did they would actually see that the whole Bible itself has a bigger picture and that everything in the bible is in one way or the other connected to that big picture. This obsession with JWs is a futile endeavor that would not only distract you but make you miss the whole point of the message we preach.

For God's sake JW's are not the only set of people in this world that believe in a doctrine.

Okay

major466:
Do not get me wrong am not prejudice to Jehovah's Witness group. On the contrary, I like their sense of seriousness and modesty. Their ''Awake Magazine'' is one of my favorite magazines; very informative and colorful. I still read them to this day.
The only thing that spoil the show is their doctrine about the Divinity of the Lord Jesus Christ. They believe Jesus is of equal status with Arch Angels in heaven. It is written all over their literatures. To Jehovah witness, Jesus Christ is not GOD. This belief is a massive contradiction to John1:1 which states that:
''In the beginning was the Word , and the Word was with GOD and the word was GOD.''
2. ''He was in the beginning with GOD. All things were made through Him, and apart from Him not one thing was made that has been made.''
The term ''Word'' from the verse above is refering to Jesus Christ. And He (Jesus Christ) was in existence before the creation of heaven and earth. He was with GOD from the very beginnging. And He was GOD. All created objects in heaven (including all the angels big and small) and earth were made through him. Without Him, not one thing was made.
If the Jehovah Witness group hold the believe that Jesus Christ is not GOD but a majestic being, created just like Arch Micheal, how come the Bible categorically recognizes Jesus Christ as GOD and that all things both in heaven and earth were made through him in John1:1-3?

Jehovah's witnesses never told you Jesus isn't God, the Bible rather teaches that Jehovah is the only Almighty God. Nobody ever said he Jesus isn't a God however they don't uphold the Trinity doctrine it's unscriptural.
Get 3 things right here: (1) The Bible verse said in the beginning. Does Almighty God Jehovah have a beginning? No, so here was referring to the beginning of creation. The Bible said Christ is the firstborn of all creation. (2) The verse siad he was with God, can someone be with someone else and at the same time be the person? (3) And last the word later dwell with men, was it Almighty God Jehovah? Remember no man sees God and live again Christ died Almighty God doesn't besides he resurrected Jesus.

Ganoderma:


Its really is awesome that people take the time to do deep and careful study of JW teachings just so they could conjour baseless reversal arguments. I wish they would do such deep and careful research on the whole Bible.
If they did they would actually see that the whole Bible itself has a bigger picture and that everything in the bible is in one way or the other connected to that big picture. This obsession with JWs is a futile endeavor that would not only distract you but make you miss the whole point of the message we preach.

For God's sake JW's are not the only set of people in this world that believe in a doctrine.

Doctrines are ideas and we all know ideas are either true or false; either good or bad. Ideas can be secular or religious. There is nothing wrong with discussing these ideas and this medium is a good one to do such.

Dude, I don't care what you preach but I do care if you attempt to deliberately misrepresent historical accounts.

alexis:


Doctrines are ideas and we all know ideas are either true or false; either good or bad. Ideas can be secular or religious. There is nothing wrong with discussing these ideas and this medium is a good one to do such.

Dude, I don't care what you preach but I do care if you attempt to deliberately misrepresent historical accounts.

So what historical account have I or We deliberately misrepresented?

Ganoderma:

So what historical account have I or We deliberately misrepresented?

Did you not say Jesus was raised "As a Spirit". It is on JW official website that Jesus was raised as a spirit creature: http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/jesus-body/

My question is - why would Jesus tell His disciples that He is not a Spirit when indeed He was a Spirit as you claim? He explicitly told them that it was Him and not a Spirit or spirit creature. Did Jesus lie? Also, does a spirit eat food?

alexis:


Did you not say Jesus was raised "As a Spirit". It is on JW official website that Jesus was raised as a spirit creature: http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/jesus-body/

My question is - why would Jesus tell His disciples that He is not a Spirit when indeed He was a Spirit as you claim? He explicitly told them that it was Him and not a Spirit or spirit creature. Did Jesus lie? Also, does a spirit eat food?

Your questions reveals how very little you know about the bible.

You asked "Does a spirit eat food?" I will answer that question with the Bible. The same bible you claim that we turn upside down. Let me see how you will defend that fact in this case. I will even quote from KJV since you say NWT is JW Bible.

Genesis 18:1-8 says:

[center][b]"And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre:
and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three
men stood by him: and when he saw them,
he ran to meet them from the tent door,
and bowed himself toward the ground,
3 And said, My Lord, if now I have found
favour in thy sight, pass not away,
I pray thee, from thy servant:
4 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched,
and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:
5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread,
and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on:
for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said,
So do, as thou hast said.
6 And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah,
and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal,
knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth.
7 And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetch a calf tender
and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it.
8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had
dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree,
and they did eat.[/b]
[/center]

Genesis 19:1-3 also says:

[center]And there came two angels to Sodom at even;
and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose
up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward
the ground; 2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in,
I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night,
and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on
your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the
street all night. 3 And he pressed upon them greatly;
and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house;
and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread,
[b]and they did eat.[/b][/center]

What do you have to say to that or am I quoting out of context.

Now think for a moment

Can humans see spirits?

A spirit materialized in a human form is only temporary isn't it?

And there is evidence to point to the fact that Jesus did not always take up the same physical appearance every-time he appeared to his disciples. (Luke 24:30, 31, 35; John 20:14-16; 21:6, 7.) In those cited cases his disciples only recognized him by what he said and did.

But of-course you must have read that part since you took the time to visit the site. Oh wait! You were only looking for something to use against us right?

{1} Quote>The bible said Christ is the first born of all creation.
Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth-and the SPIRIT of God was moving over the surface of the waters.
Genesis 1:26-27 "Then God said: Let US make man in our own image. Did you read that? Who's image is God preferring to here, He said Us?
So if God created man in His own image. Than I ask, what does a Spirit image look like, without the man?
God is Spirit-as we all know it>So who was the other image, whom God had made?

{2} Quote>The verse said He was with God, can someone be with someone else, and at the same time be the person.
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word {Jesus} and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
Come on, think brother>every man has a spirit, and of course we are connected to that spirit, without the spirit we are dead-with the spirit we are that same person. God's Spirit lived inside Jesus.

{3} Quote>Remember no man see's God and live again
We must all remember that Jesus carried His Father in Spirit and in truth, the Spirit of God lived in His Son Jesus, they are the one' and only true seed that ever lived.

ableguy:


Jehovah's witnesses never told you Jesus isn't God, the Bible rather teaches that Jehovah is the only Almighty God. Nobody ever said he Jesus isn't a God however they don't uphold the Trinity doctrine it's unscriptural.
Get 3 things right here: (1) The Bible verse said in the beginning. Does Almighty God Jehovah have a beginning? No, so here was referring to the beginning of creation. The Bible said Christ is the firstborn of all creation. (2) The verse siad he was with God, can someone be with someone else and at the same time be the person? (3) And last the word later dwell with men, was it Almighty God Jehovah? Remember no man sees God and live again Christ died Almighty God doesn't besides he resurrected Jesus.

brocab:
{1} Quote>The bible said Christ is the first born of all creation.
Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth-and the SPIRIT of God was moving over the surface of the waters.
Genesis 1:26-27 "Then God said: Let US make man in our own image. Did you read that? Who's image is God preferring to here, He said Us?
So if God created man in His own image. Than I ask, what does a Spirit image look like, without the man?
God is Spirit-as we all know it>So who was the other image, whom God had made?

{2} Quote>The verse said He was with God, can someone be with someone else, and at the same time be the person.
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word {Jesus} and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
Come on, think brother>every man has a spirit, and of course we are connected to that spirit, without the spirit we are dead-with the spirit we are that same person. God's Spirit lived inside Jesus.

{3} Quote>Remember no man see's God and live again
We must all remember that Jesus carried His Father in Spirit and in truth, the Spirit of God lived in His Son Jesus, they are the one' and only true seed that ever lived.

Are you really making sense?

Quote>Are you really making sense?
I suppose it would be difficult, for someone who isn't spiritually filled, of course nothing would make sense.
What do you do when you pray>you go into your secret place and pray to Jehovah, Jesus communicated the same way in prayer to His Father God.
All Christians do-but it makes it easier when one is Spirit filled.
John 17:20-21 "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word, that they may all be one, even as you, Father, are in Me, and I in you, that they also maybe in Us, so the world may believe that you sent Me.
John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another comforter, that He may abide with you forever.
The evidence to these two scriptures have been proven 100 fold, men and women are risking their lives everyday, carrying the gospel all through the centuries, Spirit filled Christians are spreading the word of God, globally.

ableguy:


Are you really making sense?

It is interesting to see so many praises showered on the Jehovah's witnesses. No one was ever called to witness for Jehovah. You witness or testify to what you have seen. The person we have been called to witness for is Jesus. Jesus said "But ye shall receive power after that the Holy Spirit is come upon you and ye shall be witnesses unto me...." Acts 1:8. Jesus is the manifestation of God in the flesh. People saw him, ate with him. They also witness the crucifixion. Above all, many saw him after he resurrected. So, there were eye witnesses. But no one has seen God at any time. So, how can you witness to what you have not seen? The very foundations of this movement is false and from the pit of hell. They only subvert ignorant souls who refuse to embrace the truth. They don't even have any testimony of genuine conversion. They are not born again. They are just religious. Anyone who listens to them may never see the light of the gospel which is about Jesus death, burial and resurrection. They do not preach Jesus Christ who is the center of the message of salvation. Time will not permit me to tell you more about this deceptive religious group. I admire their commitment but they do not communicate the right knowledge. Please avoid them as much as possible. They are ministers of darkness disguised as angels of God.

Ken4Christ:
It is interesting to see so many praises showered on the Jehovah's witnesses. No one was ever called to witness for Jehovah. You witness or testify to what you have seen. The person we have been called to witness for is Jesus. Jesus said "But ye shall receive power after that the Holy Spirit is come upon you and ye shall be witnesses unto me...." Acts 1:8. Jesus is the manifestation of God in the flesh. People saw him, ate with him. They also witness the crucifixion. Above all, many saw him after he resurrected. So, there were eye witnesses. But no one has seen God at any time. So, how can you witness to what you have not seen? The very foundations of this movement is false and from the pit of hell. They only subvert ignorant souls who refuse to embrace the truth. They don't even have any testimony of genuine conversion. They are not born again. They are just religious. Anyone who listens to them may never see the light of the gospel which is about Jesus death, burial and resurrection. They do not preach Jesus Christ who is the center of the message of salvation. Time will not permit me to tell you more about this deceptive religious group. I admire their commitment but they do not communicate the right knowledge. Please avoid them as much as possible. They are ministers of darkness disguised as angels of God.

Haba Nigerian critics lying since 110B.C.E! @ the bolded part of your post.

Question for thoughts.
1. Are we not witnessing Jesus?[It's a Yes or No answer? You've got to tell me!]
You wonna proof say na you wey sabi witness Jesus?? Okay, when Jesus say go all ye nation and preach, whick kind christain religion dey preach like Jws?
Meaning others na ....

If na that Beautiful "Jehovah witness" they make una Jealous, kindly rename your church to Jesus witness church.
Wait sef, when Jesus say you gonna be my witness, why can't you name your church Jesus witness. (BECAUSE I KNOW YOU WONNA CRITIZE FROM THE "JW " POINT.)

Amoung the christain doctrine, ALL THE BIBLE ACCOUNT ARE BEING FULFILED BY JWS. Which kind?? You wanna know? Okay.

**JESUS SAID HIS TRUE DISCIPLE WILL BE PROCECUTED AND HATED* * See how government they procecute us, Infact you will know that Jws are the most most hated christain religion! (why?? Bible don talk am). Even my bro, See adolf Hitler! ADOLF, HITLER! He talk say him go wipe out Jw for Germany, See how he ended up his Life #oma se o.



***JESUS SAID: "YOU Gonna IDENTIFY MY TRUE DISCIPLES WITH LOVE "***
no matter our tribe we love ourselfs.

Conclusion:
I'm a type that doesn't like typing, but I was compelled to do so seeing how you are critizing.

Jehovah's witness are human beings not angel, we strive to uphold the bible principles.

The first centurians also strive to do so, paul even lamented.



#I_REP_A_JW #I'M_NOT_AN_EXTREMIS.

I URGE AND IMPLORE YOU TO WIDENING YOUR RESEARCHING PARAMATERS ON DOCTRINES LIKE: HELL FIRE, CHRISTMAS e.t.c IT'S NOT BIBLICAL

http://nairaland.com/samtrust covered and compiled a facet of the whlole ish.


P.S.S: to my fellow Jws. DON'T ARGUE WITH THEM, REMEMBER WHAT OUR WATCH TOWER STUDY EDITION SAYS!


To the person I quoted:
No insult intended. I respect you more than you think of.

One love.

(If no be for Jw's, the name Jehovah will have been eradicated.)


#I will not reply any quote that evolved as as a result of this.
If you wonna know the truth, the P.m button of nairaland is there. I will surely reply you.

Quote>Jesus said: His true disciples will be prosecuted and Hated.
Jesus said go out unto the world and preach His gospel-not the Watchtowers gospel.
Everybody who doesn't belong to the JW's are hated.
You don't believe in holiday's, holy day's nor do you celebrate birthday's, or Christmas etc,, then ask yourselves this?
With biblical knowledge Jesus's first birthday was celebrated, by 3 wise men, and the shepherds who came in and worshipped Him giving Him gifts.
That's a celebration.

Galaxyroyp:


Haba Nigerian critics lying since 110B.C.E! @ the bolded part of your post.

Question for thoughts.
1. Are we not witnessing Jesus?[It's a Yes or No answer? You've got to tell me!]
You wonna proof say na you wey sabi witness Jesus?? Okay, when Jesus say go all ye nation and preach, whick kind christain religion dey preach like Jws?
Meaning others na ....

If na that Beautiful "Jehovah witness" they make una Jealous, kindly rename your church to Jesus witness church.
Wait sef, when Jesus say you gonna be my witness, why can't you name your church Jesus witness. (BECAUSE I KNOW YOU WONNA CRITIZE FROM THE "JW " POINT.)

Amoung the christain doctrine, ALL THE BIBLE ACCOUNT ARE BEING FULFILED BY JWS. Which kind?? You wanna know? Okay.

**JESUS SAID HIS TRUE DISCIPLE WILL BE PROCECUTED AND HATED* * See how government they procecute us, Infact you will know that Jws are the most most hated christain religion! (why?? Bible don talk am). Even my bro, See adolf Hitler! ADOLF, HITLER! He talk say him go wipe out Jw for Germany, See how he ended up his Life #oma se o.



***JESUS SAID: "YOU Gonna IDENTIFY MY TRUE DISCIPLES WITH LOVE "***
no matter our tribe we love ourselfs.

Conclusion:
I'm a type that doesn't like typing, but I was compelled to do so seeing how you are critizing.

Jehovah's witness are human beings not angel, we strive to uphold the bible principles.

The first centurians also strive to do so, paul even lamented.



#I_REP_A_JW #I'M_NOT_AN_EXTREMIS.

I URGE AND IMPLORE YOU TO WIDENING YOUR RESEARCHING PARAMATERS ON DOCTRINES LIKE: HELL FIRE, CHRISTMAS e.t.c IT'S NOT BIBLICAL

http://nairaland.com/samtrust covered and compiled a facet of the whlole ish.


P.S.S: to my fellow Jws. DON'T ARGUE WITH THEM, REMEMBER WHAT OUR WATCH TOWER STUDY EDITION SAYS!


To the person I quoted:
No insult intended. I respect you more than you think of.

One love.

(If no be for Jw's, the name Jehovah will have been eradicated.)


#I will not reply any quote that evolved as as a result of this.
If you wonna know the truth, the P.m button of nairaland is there. I will surely reply you.

Ganoderma

Your questions reveals how very little you know about the bible.

Really? I guess it's only JW who have special revelation to understand the Bible. I will indulge you

You asked "Does a spirit eat food?" I will answer that question with the Bible. The same bible you claim that we turn upside down. Let me see how you will defend that fact in this case. I will even quote from KJV since you say NWT is JW Bible.

It was a simple question I asked - Does a spirit eat food? You would have answered yes or no but instead, you went off on a rant about how little I know about the Bible. No problem, I will indulge you.

Genesis 18:1-8 says:

I am happy you raised this question because I hoped you would raise it . Since you know the Bible and I know little about it; can you please tell me who the Bible is referring to in Verse 1: And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

In verse 2, it says: And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground

In verse 1 it speaks of "the Lord", in verse 2, it speaks of "3 men". Can you reconcile who is the Bible referring to in verse 1 and who is the Bible referring to in verse 2. Also, in verse 8 toward the end, it says - "and they did eat". Can you tell me who ate here? The Lord, the 3 men - who actually was eating?

In verse 9 (even though you didn't bring it up) - They asked Abraham where was his wife? So, was it "the Lord" that was asking or was it the "3 men" that was asking? Or who did the asking - can you please let me know.

Genesis 19:1-3:

These verses are quite clear and confirm that two angels visited Lot. Please read verse 5 - And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them

One would assume from the passage and the context that these angels appeared as men because they were addressed as men. Angels are ministering spirits i.e. Hebrews 1:14 who can take angelic forms as in Luke 2:13 & Matthew 28:2-4 or take on human forms as in Genesis 19 Hebrews 13:2 and when they are in human form; they will do some of the things that humans can do such as eat.

The bible even goes further to suggest that angels can have children with women from Genesis 6:1-4. Since angels are spirits, how can they mate with humans to have children? From scripture, it is clear - they can take on forms of humans with flesh and blood.

What do you have to say to that or am I quoting out of context. Now think for a moment Can humans see spirits?

I never said you are quoting out of context. My question to you was: - why would Jesus tell His disciples that He is not a Spirit when indeed He was a Spirit as you claim? He explicitly told them that it was Him in flesh and blood and not a Spirit or spirit creature. Did Jesus lie?

A spirit materialized in a human form is only temporary isn't it?

And there is evidence to point to the fact that Jesus did not always take up the same physical appearance every-time he appeared to his disciples. (Luke 24:30, 31, 35; John 20:14-16; 21:6, 7.) In those cited cases his disciples only recognized him by what he said and did.

In the case where He said He wasn't a Spirit. He explicitly said He wasn't a Spirit. Why would you claim He was a spirit. Have we known Jesus to be a liar? And you didn't answer this question I asked. Jesus said He wasn't a Spirit - how can you reconcile that?

alexis:
Ganoderma



Really? I guess it's only JW who have special revelation to understand the Bible. I will indulge you



It was a simple question I asked - Does a spirit eat food? You would have answered yes or no but instead, you went off on a rant about how little I know about the Bible. No problem, I will indulge you.



I am happy you raised this question because I hoped you would raise it . Since you know the Bible and I know little about it; can you please tell me who the Bible is referring to in Verse 1: And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

In verse 2, it says: And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground

In verse 1 it speaks of "the Lord", in verse 2, it speaks of "3 men". Can you reconcile who is the Bible referring to in verse 1 and who is the Bible referring to in verse 2. Also, in verse 8 toward the end, it says - "and they did eat". Can you tell me who ate here? The Lord, the 3 men - who actually was eating?

In verse 9 (even though you didn't bring it up) - They asked Abraham where was his wife? So, was it "the Lord" that was asking or was it the "3 men" that was asking? Or who did the asking - can you please let me know.

Genesis 19:1-3:

These verses are quite clear and confirm that two angels visited Lot. Please read verse 5 - And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them

One would assume from the passage and the context that these angels appeared as men because they were addressed as men. Angels are ministering spirits i.e. Hebrews 1:14 who can take angelic forms as in Luke 2:13 & Matthew 28:2-4 or take on human forms as in Genesis 19 Hebrews 13:2 and when they are in human form; they will do some of the things that humans can do such as eat.

The bible even goes further to suggest that angels can have children with women from Genesis 6:1-4. Since angels are spirits, how can they mate with humans to have children? From scripture, it is clear - they can take on forms of humans with flesh and blood.

What do you have to say to that or am I quoting out of context. Now think for a moment Can humans see spirits?

I never said you are quoting out of context. My question to you was: - why would Jesus tell His disciples that He is not a Spirit when indeed He was a Spirit as you claim? He explicitly told them that it was Him in flesh and blood and not a Spirit or spirit creature. Did Jesus lie?

A spirit materialized in a human form is only temporary isn't it?

And there is evidence to point to the fact that Jesus did not always take up the same physical appearance every-time he appeared to his disciples. (Luke 24:30, 31, 35; John 20:14-16; 21:6, 7.) In those cited cases his disciples only recognized him by what he said and did.

In the case where He said He wasn't a Spirit. He explicitly said He wasn't a Spirit. Why would you claim He was a spirit. Have we known Jesus to be a liar? And you didn't answer this question I asked. Jesus said He wasn't a Spirit - how can you reconcile that?

I have nothing more to say to you.

Ganoderma:



I have nothing more to say to you.

Since you know more about the Bible than I do, please tell us why Jesus would tell His disciples that he is not a spirit but He is flesh and blood. I asked you that question and you haven't answered

alexis:


Since you know more about the Bible than I do, please tell us why Jesus would tell His disciples that he is not a spirit but He is flesh and blood. I asked you that question and you haven't answered

Continue

Because the JW's don't know.

alexis:


Since you know more about the Bible than I do, please tell us why Jesus would tell His disciples that he is not a spirit but He is flesh and blood. I asked you that question and you haven't answered

Ken4Christ:
It is interesting to see so many praises showered on the Jehovah's witnesses. No one was ever called to witness for Jehovah. You witness or testify to what you have seen. The person we have been called to witness for is Jesus. Jesus said "But ye shall receive power after that the Holy Spirit is come upon you and ye shall be witnesses unto me...." Acts 1:8. Jesus is the manifestation of God in the flesh. People saw him, ate with him. They also witness the crucifixion. Above all, many saw him after he resurrected. So, there were eye witnesses. But no one has seen God at any time. So, how can you witness to what you have not seen? The very foundations of this movement is false and from the pit of hell. They only subvert ignorant souls who refuse to embrace the truth. They don't even have any testimony of genuine conversion. They are not born again. They are just religious. Anyone who listens to them may never see the light of the gospel which is about Jesus death, burial and resurrection. They do not preach Jesus Christ who is the center of the message of salvation. Time will not permit me to tell you more about this deceptive religious group. I admire their commitment but they do not communicate the right knowledge. Please avoid them as much as possible. They are ministers of darkness disguised as angels of God.

This why it is bad to get so deeply enmeshed in human logic.

First you say Jesus is a manifestation of God in the Flesh. Meaning that God appeared to us physically in the person of Christ right?

Let's assume for a moment that you are right.

If Jesus is truly a manifestation of God in the flesh, where is he now?
As in now that we know he was resurrected and has returned to heaven. Afterall if God lives in heaven there wouldn't be any need for a fleshly manifestation of himself since the real thing already exists in the same realm. If I was to go with your logic, it simply means Jesus no longer exists. So which brings us back to the question.

If that logic holds true, then what is the basis of your faith in Jesus? Still going by your logic, would witnessing Jesus who is a physical manifestation of God be better than witnessing God himself? Men your logic shocks me really.

I really do not need to physically see God to be able to witness him. I see him in the pages of my Bible. By the way have you actually seen Jesus since you so much believe in seeing before witnessing. You are not any different from Thomas then.

Infact Jesus even made a declaration while addressing Thomas at John 20:29 "Happy is he that has not seen and yet believes".

alexis:


Since you know more about the Bible than I do, please tell us why Jesus would tell His disciples that he is not a spirit but He is flesh and blood. I asked you that question and you haven't answered

brocab:
Because the JW's don't know.

First of all Jesus was not resurrected as Flesh and Blood. He was resurrected in the Spirit. I know you once attacked that by saying "In the Spirit" and not "As a Spirit". But the bible did mention that he was put to death "In the Flesh" and not "As a Flesh". So what does that mean?

Secondly Jesus never said he was flesh and blood. What he did say in Luke 24:39 was "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

They saw him that he had flesh and bones (not blood). Pretty much the same way Lot saw the angels before the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. And let us not forget Jacob. He wrestled with an angel. Could he have done that if the angel did not materialize. Did the fact that the angel materialized stop him from being an angel? They manifested in the flesh. Jesus manifested in the Flesh to his disciples so that his disciples could believe that it was indeed him and that had risen. It particularly proved helpful for Thomas when he manifested himself complete with his death wounds.

Ganoderma:





First of all Jesus was not resurrected as Flesh and Blood. He was resurrected in the Spirit. I know you once attacked that by saying "In the Spirit" and not "As a Spirit". But the bible did mention that he was put to death "In the Flesh" and not "As a Flesh". So what does that mean?

Secondly Jesus never said he was flesh and blood. What he did say in Luke 24:39 was "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

They saw him that he had flesh and bones (not blood). Pretty much the same way Lot saw the angels before the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. And let us not forget Jacob. He wrestled with an angel. Could he have done that if the angel did not materialize. Did the fact that the angel materialized stop him from being an angel? They manifested in the flesh. Jesus manifested in the Flesh to his disciples so that his disciples could believe that it was indeed him and that had risen. It particularly proved helpful for Thomas when he manifested himself complete with his death wounds.

First of all angels are not incarnated and Jesus is not an angel. He was born of a woman in human form, with flesh and bones and blood, angels are not born of women.

So, why did Jesus say He wasn't a Spirit if indeed He was as you claim and as JW claim? Jesus was lying? Think about it - you claim He is a Spirit and changed temporarily to human to convince His disciples. Why didn't He tell them that He was a Spirit - why would Jesus confuse His disciples and confuse us?

The fact is that you guys don't use the context of the passage to interpret scripture is the source of confusion. You are ignoring Jesus own words from the bible itself stating FIRMLY that he wasn't a spirit when He was with His disciples. You leave the passage and use examples in Genesis to Internet an event that happened in Luke when the passage in Luke made it clear what the context was. This is what indoctrination does - you ignore the facts and go along with what you want.

For scriptural proof, consider this passage:

In John 2:19-22 before the crucifixion Jesus said, "Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up . . . He was speaking of the temple of His physical body." Since Jesus said He would raise the same body He died in, He didn't say He will raise as a spirit body or a spirit. He made it clear that it will be His existing physical body.

As to your question why Jesus said "Flesh and Bones" and not "Flesh and Blood"; let us use scripture to answer:

Jesus said that He had "flesh and bones" not "flesh and blood." This is important because flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God (1 Cor. 15:50). The blood of Jesus was the sacrifice for sin (Rom. 5:9). It is the blood that cleanses us of our sin (Heb. 9:22).

Another question - if Jesus was raised as a Spirit and not in His physical body. What happened to His body. When His disciples go to the tomb, why wasn't it there?

Also, I forgot to ask. Is Jesus an Angel? Does JW believe Jesus is an angel?

alexis:


First of all angels are not incarnated and Jesus is not an angel. He was born of a woman in human form, with flesh and bones and blood, angels are not born of women.

So, why did Jesus say He wasn't a Spirit if indeed He was as you claim and as JW claim? Jesus was lying? Think about it - you claim He is a Spirit and changed temporarily to human to convince His disciples. Why didn't He tell them that He was a Spirit - why would Jesus confuse His disciples and confuse us?

The fact is that you guys don't use the context of the passage to interpret scripture is the source of confusion. You are ignoring Jesus own words from the bible itself stating FIRMLY that he wasn't a spirit when He was with His disciples. You leave the passage and use examples in Genesis to Internet an event that happened in Luke when the passage in Luke made it clear what the context was. This is what indoctrination does - you ignore the facts and go along with what you want.

For scriptural proof, consider this passage:

In John 2:19-22 before the crucifixion Jesus said, "Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up . . . He was speaking of the temple of His physical body." Since Jesus said He would raise the same body He died in, He didn't say He will raise as a spirit body or a spirit. He made it clear that it will be His existing physical body.

As to your question why Jesus said "Flesh and Bones" and not "Flesh and Blood"; let us use scripture to answer:

Jesus said that He had "flesh and bones" not "flesh and blood." This is important because flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God (1 Cor. 15:50). The blood of Jesus was the sacrifice for sin (Rom. 5:9). It is the blood that cleanses us of our sin (Heb. 9:22).

Another question - if Jesus was raised as a Spirit and not in His physical body. What happened to His body. When His disciples go to the tomb, why wasn't it there?

Are you a Catholic?

alexis:


First of all angels are not incarnated and Jesus is not an angel. He was born of a woman in human form, with flesh and bones and blood, angels are not born of women.

So, why did Jesus say He wasn't a Spirit if indeed He was as you claim and as JW claim? Jesus was lying? Think about it - you claim He is a Spirit and changed temporarily to human to convince His disciples. Why didn't He tell them that He was a Spirit - why would Jesus confuse His disciples and confuse us?

The fact is that you guys don't use the context of the passage to interpret scripture is the source of confusion. You are ignoring Jesus own words from the bible itself stating FIRMLY that he wasn't a spirit when He was with His disciples. You leave the passage and use examples in Genesis to Internet an event that happened in Luke when the passage in Luke made it clear what the context was. This is what indoctrination does - you ignore the facts and go along with what you want.

For scriptural proof, consider this passage:

In John 2:19-22 before the crucifixion Jesus said, "Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up . . . He was speaking of the temple of His physical body." Since Jesus said He would raise the same body He died in, He didn't say He will raise as a spirit body or a spirit. He made it clear that it will be His existing physical body.

As to your question why Jesus said "Flesh and Bones" and not "Flesh and Blood"; let us use scripture to answer:

Jesus said that He had "flesh and bones" not "flesh and blood." This is important because flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God (1 Cor. 15:50). The blood of Jesus was the sacrifice for sin (Rom. 5:9). It is the blood that cleanses us of our sin (Heb. 9:22).

Another question - if Jesus was raised as a Spirit and not in His physical body. What happened to His body. When His disciples go to the tomb, why wasn't it there?

First of all, when you say "incarnated" what do you mean?

Secondly, I dont remember saying Jesus was an angel. Angels are Spirits and so is Jesus.

Thirdly, I related other passages of the bible to support the fact that when the need arises angels and spirits can materialize and carry out some activities normal humans do.

Fourthly, you accused me of not using the context of the bible. Please can you enlighten me or what the context of the passage in question is and how I have misapplied that context?

Fifth, if the temple Jesus was talking was indeed his physical body then how do you explain what Jesus said in that same book of John 6:51 "I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread he will live forever; and for a fact, the bread that I will give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world.” If Jesus was raised in the same physical body that he was killed in would that not mean that he had taken back the same flesh he said he would give for the life of the world. So what then would have been the basis for the Faith in Christ?

Sixth, that the body of Jesus was not present in the tomb does not prove anything. If Jesus was raised in the flesh as you claim, what then happened to that flesh when he finally ascended into heaven?

Seventh, Flesh and Blood cannot inherit God's Kingdom. This one really cracks me up. I am sure even you must agree that this point is completely useless.



I am seriously beginning to ask whether I am actually arguing with someone who has a sound knowledge of the Bible or just somebody who is looking up scriptures just so he could win an argument with a JW. Some of your arguments lacks sound reasoning and logic.

Let me ask you a very important question. Why was it that it had to be Jesus who would give his life? Why couldn't somebody else have done it? Can you even try to answer the question?

Ken4Christ:
It is interesting to see so many praises showered on the Jehovah's witnesses. No one was ever called to witness for Jehovah. You witness or testify to what you have seen. The person we have been called to witness for is Jesus. Jesus said "But ye shall receive power after that the Holy Spirit is come upon you and ye shall be witnesses unto me...." Acts 1:8. Jesus is the manifestation of God in the flesh. People saw him, ate with him. They also witness the crucifixion. Above all, many saw him after he resurrected. So, there were eye witnesses. But no one has seen God at any time. So, how can you witness to what you have not seen? The very foundations of this movement is false and from the pit of hell. They only subvert ignorant souls who refuse to embrace the truth. They don't even have any testimony of genuine conversion. They are not born again. They are just religious. Anyone who listens to them may never see the light of the gospel which is about Jesus death, burial and resurrection. They do not preach Jesus Christ who is the center of the message of salvation. Time will not permit me to tell you more about this deceptive religious group. I admire their commitment but they do not communicate the right knowledge. Please avoid them as much as possible. They are ministers of darkness disguised as angels of God.

Let's weigh ur logic:

Our foundation is weak.

You said no one has seen God at any time

Now, at Isaiah 43:10, God called the israelites His witnesses even though the israelites has not seen Him before. So how can they witness what they have not seen?

Is the foundation of there witness also weak? Why dont u pm any of us for a discussion?

MVLOX:


check well please .....we believe in Hell but not Hell fire

Jehovah's witnesses tell the bible truth about hell. They tell you the root meaning. They don't deceive or scare people with lies.

Ganoderma

First of all, when you say "incarnated" what do you mean?

Angels don't come to us as the savior of the world or represent God as His incarnate; that is what I mean

Secondly, I dont remember saying Jesus was an angel. Angels are Spirits and so is Jesus.

I asked you, do you believe Jesus is an angel of some sort. Jehovah Witnesses confirm that Jesus is an Arch Angel = http://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/bible-teach/who-is-michael-the-archangel-jesus/. This will throw light unto this discussion because Christians don't believe that Jesus is an angel or arch angel. There is no where in the Bible, Jesus is called an angel

Thirdly, I related other passages of the bible to support the fact that when the need arises angels and spirits can materialize and carry out some activities normal humans do.

I don't disagree with this and I agreed. Angels can manifest as humans when required and perform actions that humans do but Angels where never born with a human body. Angels don't resurrected, angels don't come back from the dead. These things happen only in human bodies which don't apply to Angels.

Fourthly, you accused me of not using the context of the bible. Please can you enlighten me or what the context of the passage in question is and how I have misapplied that context?

Luke 24:39 = Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. Here is Jesus saying that he is not a spirit. From this passage, where did you gather that He is a Spirit. That is what I mean when you read a passage in context. Read the entire chapter and tell me where it suggest that Jesus rose as a Spirit creature and compare that to verse 39 where Jesus himself said He is not a Spirit or Angel or Spirit creature

Fifth, if the temple Jesus was talking was indeed his physical body then how do you explain what Jesus said in that same book of John 6:51 "I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread he will live forever; and for a fact, the bread that I will give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world.” If Jesus was raised in the same physical body that he was killed in would that not mean that he had taken back the same flesh he said he would give for the life of the world. So what then would have been the basis for the Faith in Christ?

The expression "flesh and blood" occurs only five times in the New Testament. We need to define our definition of its meaning from the overall teachings. If we examine the following references we see the writers are often speaking of "flesh and blood" as being synonymous with "fallen man", just as it is of the physical body. If you substitute the words "fallen man" (unregenerate) in the place of "flesh and blood" we can understand better what the writer is saying:

Sometimes the word for flesh (sarx) is used literally (as in Heb.10:20) Sometimes it is used in a figurative manner as in Rom.8:9 (you are not in the flesh but the Spirit). Meaning the new nature rules over the old.

Matthew 16:13-17: "Flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee but my Father who is in heaven." Is this speaking of the physical flesh, or the corrupt nature of man not revealing Christ's identity to Peter? It came from God who is Spirit.

Galatians 1:16: Straightway I conferred not with flesh and blood.... “ Obviously Paul was not referring to the physical flesh but rather to corrupt and sinful man.

Ephesians 6:12: "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood. "A case can be made either way in the interpretation of this text. For instance, because Christians do not physically wrestle with their opposition. Paul is not be referring to the physical body, we don't wrestle against sinful corrupt nature of other men but the spiritual forces of evil influencing him.

Hebrews 2:14:, "For as much then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same. . . "Here the text does refer to the physical flesh but Jesus did not take on Himself a sinful nature. It means he became a human having the same physical flesh and blood minus the sin nature. As Rom.8:3 says Jesus came in the "likeness of sinful flesh", in other words he was fully man, he looked like any other but without the sin. The word for flesh used here refers to mankind in their fallen state (the body of flesh).

When speaking of sinful man who consists of flesh and blood he cannot enter the kingdom of God without a new birth. [b]John.3:3-5 Jesus explains that a fallen man cannot enter God's kingdom without being spiritually regenerated, he will not even see the kingdom of God.

I Corinthians 15:50 Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. "The Apostle Paul turns to the subject of transformation of the body not the soul. The body that we now possess is not suitable for the heavenly kingdom. It is corrupted, subject to disease, and decays. Only that which is pure, incorruptible and immortal can enter heaven, this is why there must be a change. Paul is answering the question of what kind of "body" believers will receive in the resurrection (vs. 35). It will be a "spiritual body" (vs. 44). A "spiritual body" must be defined by the ONLY example we have of one, the first fruits from the dead, the body of Jesus. He described his body as one of flesh and bone, (possibly bloodless) (Lk.24:39). The resurrection body has no need of blood as its life because its nature will not be the same. Presently the blood nourishes the cells that are in need of constant repair but food and water to supply nourishment will no longer be needed. No cells will be in need of repair in our glorified bodies so we will no longer need blood. As it states in Revelation we will neither hunger or thirst. We can eat but not from necessity. We will still have our body and its functions but obviously some things will change.

In verses 51-52, Paul then proceeds to tell us a mystery which involves the change that all believers will go through, The corruptible will put on in-corruption, and mortality will become immortality. We need to have a complete change to make us suitable for our new environment. This implies a conversion of our same physical bodies to a body with heavenly qualities. Nature does not know extinction but transformation, as science says energy cannot be destroyed but transformed.

Paul states that their dead body is sown and will be resurrected to new life. God has it become a new body (1Cor.15:38). The old body puts on (is swallowed up) by the new body it is transformed into something permanent.

The Jehovah's Witnesses make the same mistake the disciples did even with the Bible in their hands to correct them. Jesus' grave was empty with only the linens left. There are no Scriptures used to validate a spirit resurrection rather than a bodily one. Nowhere does Jesus say I'm spirit instead he makes it clear he is flesh and bone. Some of the discrepancies that people often use to support this position are found in the Emmaus road encounter where the disciples did not recognize Jesus. We need to realize that they were in a state of distress, shock, fear, and unbelief of His resurrection. This became apparent after he revealed himself to them. Luke 24:16 in the beginning of his encounter tells us that “their eyes were restrained so they did not know Him.” This possibly could refer to the fact that Jesus was not revealing himself to them because of their unbelief even after they were testified to His resurrection by the women. So he was trying to draw them into faith, as he states in v. 25. “O foolish ones and slow of heart to believe in all the prophets have spoken.” In verses 30-31 He blessed and broke bread with them, and then “their eyes were opened and they knew Him.” This event opened their eyes. Jesus broke bread many times with them, at the feeding of the 5,000 he broke bread in prayer. The last night they spent with Jesus he broke bread and gave the true meaning of the Passover. V.35 when they arrived with the disciples they told the story of his resurrection and how he was made known to them in the breaking of the bread. Whether this is a natural or supernatural explanation for their inability to recognize Him, one thing is for sure, it was not because He was a spirit or raised in a completely different body.

The Jehovah's Witnesses make the same mistake that Jesus corrected the disciples on. In Luke 24:39 The Disciples are terrified thinking they saw a Ghost. Jesus calms them down and said, “I am not a spirit but I have flesh and bone (not blood, so here is the answer to flesh and blood not able to enter heaven). One thing that is clear is that it was not because he did not have a body. He had the same scars in His hands and feet proving His fulfillment of the prophecy that He would raise up His body from the grave (John 2:19-22). A spirit does not scar. He shows them the scars saying it is I, myself. He then eats with them to prove it. Once again He repeats what was said on the Emaus road Luke 24:44. Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.” Vs.45-46 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures. Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day” Just as Paul states in 1 Cor.15:1-4 as the scripture says.

Also resurrection accounts show that people were raised in their physical bodies. Two examples are Lazarus (Luke 11), and Jairus' daughter. Jesus also rose from the dead in the flesh (Luke 24:39; Acts 2:31; 1 John 4:2; 2 John 7). Numerous times they were told to eat proving it was a physical resurrection and that the body needed immediate nourishment.

Sixth, that the body of Jesus was not present in the tomb does not prove anything. If Jesus was raised in the flesh as you claim, what then happened to that flesh when he finally ascended into heaven?

Actually it does - The Bible say when some of the disciples went to the tomb, His body wasn't there. If indeed Jesus was raised as a Spirit, wouldn't His body be there?

Seventh, Flesh and Blood cannot inherit God's Kingdom. This one really cracks me up. I am sure even you must agree that this point is completely useless.

Dude, read my response above

I am seriously beginning to ask whether I am actually arguing with someone who has a sound knowledge of the Bible or just somebody who is looking up scriptures just so he could win an argument with a JW. Some of your arguments lacks sound reasoning and logic.

Sound reasoning and logic! Are you kidding me? - Here is a person who claims Jesus is a Spirit even after Jesus Himself confirming He is not a Spirit. If you use reason and logic, you will realize that we interpret scripture based on what is revealed as compared to what is inferred.

Let me ask you a very important question. Why was it that it had to be Jesus who would give his life? Why couldn't somebody else have done it? Can you even try to answer the question?

I can only answer that question if you tell me who Jesus is . Please respond to the points I raised.

Also, you still keep ignoring my question - what did Jesus tell his disciples that He is not a Spirit if infact He was as you claim?