I'm sure vooks ate some...

italo:


Here are pentecostals eating snakes demons.

Same thing you complain about.

macof:


And what about you? All that you believe is it because u are after truth or because some gay priest told you so?
You are a hypocrite yourself

NOT COS OF ONE PRIEST BUT BECAUSE WHAT I BELIVE IS THE CONSISTENT CHRISTIAN WITNESS FOR 2000YRS

vooks:

The boy has run out of wits
There is no difference, both are paganism which God banned among his people

If it is paganism to talk to Mary, it was paganism when Jesus talked to Moses and Elijah.

italo:
After many years of "Pentecostals" demonizing Catholics for the practice of Canonization of Saints, one of their most revered "pastors" Adeboye, has now declared that he has no doubt that HID Awolowo is in heaven (the same thing that the Pope does in a Canonization).

Now the same "Pentecostals" that call the Pope and the Church evil for daring to declare that a person is in heaven...are telling those criticizing Adeboye not to speak ill of a "man of God."

Does Adeboye now believe in Canonization of Saints or does he believe that his own Canonization is holy and that of the Pope is evil?

This is the same hypocrisy that pentecostal exhibit on virtually every Catholic doctrine. E.g Holy Communion, Celebration of Christmas, Easter etc. They criticize...then they copy it.

Hypocritical pentecostals are free to run away and pretend to didn't see this thread, as usual.

I dont comment on ur post again, bt reading this cant just bt comment. U have being doing this for years n d question going thru my mind is, what exactly are u about?

Are u a Christian at all? Cos all ur post is about defending the catholic church, mary, doctrines etc, never for once Christ.

NB U definitely need to encounter Christ ASAP

PastorOluT:


I dont comment on ur post again, bt reading this cant just bt comment. U have being doing this for years n d question going thru my mind is, what exactly are u about?

Are u a Christian at all? Cos all ur post is about defending the catholic church, mary, doctrines etc, never for once Christ.

NB U definitely need to encounter Christ ASAP

Then you're a liar...because I often defend Christ before Atheists on this forum...when you're nowhere to be found.

Do you want me to provide the evidence that you lied against me, Mr "Christian?"

italo:


Then you're a liar...because I often defend Christ before Atheists on this forum...when you're nowhere to be found.

Do you want me to provide the evidence that you lied against me, Mr "Christian?"

Smile, typical of u. Cant exchange words with u, but for record purpose I will state the fact.

U aint defending Christ at all, all u do is defend ur gods church, mary, doctrines etc in relation to Christ n vice versa.

NB What I will just want to tell u is that u are on a dangerous path n no different from the atheist u delude urself fighting against. REPENT AND SEEK JESUS ALONE THAT YE MIGHT BE SAVED.

italo:


If it is paganism to talk to Mary, it was paganism when Jesus talked to Moses and Elijah.

Just continue to delude urself, mary's worship is now d same as Jesus talkin to moses n Elijah?

Was Jesus asking favors from or praying to n thru moses n elijah?

PastorOluT:


Just continue to delude urself, mary's worship is now d same as Jesus talkin to moses n Elijah?

Was Jesus asking favors from or praying to n thru moses n elijah?

Pastor, can you please explain to us what worship means. And while you are at it you can throw more light on what Jesus was discussing with Moses and Elijah.

dmandy:



Pastor, can you please explain to us what worship means. And while you are at it you can throw more light on what Jesus was discussing with Moses and Elijah.

Smiles, I have seen this before so I aint ready for going back n forth. I strongly believe are disposed to a dictionary n bible, so help urself out.

But I will oblige ur second question on what Jesus was discussing with them.

And, behold there talked with Him two men, which were Moses and Elias: Who appeared in glory, and spake of His decease which He should accomplish at Jerusalem Luke 9:30-31.

U see they were discussing His crucifision, not Him praying to them or seeking some help!

PastorOluT:


Smile, typical of u. Cant exchange words with u, but for record purpose I will state the fact.

U aint defending Christ at all, all u do is defend ur gods church, mary, doctrines etc in relation to Christ n vice versa.

NB What I will just want to tell u is that u are on a dangerous path n no different from the atheist u delude urself fighting against. REPENT AND SEEK JESUS ALONE THAT YE MIGHT BE SAVED.

Your opinion, based on no evidence.

Here's evidence of me defending Christ against an unbeliever...when all the protestants/pentecostal who had been vilifying Catholics didn't say a word in his defence.

https://www.nairaland.com/2737934/why-mary-cannot-intercessor/2#41168889

Whoever makes you lie boldly like this cannot be Jesus.

PastorOluT:


Smiles, I have seen this before so I aint ready for going back n forth. I strongly believe are disposed to a dictionary n bible, so help urself out.

But I will oblige ur second question on what Jesus was discussing with them.

And, behold there talked with Him two men, which were Moses and Elias: Who appeared in glory, and spake of His decease which He should accomplish at Jerusalem Luke 9:30-31.

U see they were discussing His crucifision, not Him praying to them or seeking some help!

Thanks so much for that honest answer.

They were discussing about his coming death according to the bible. What could possibly be the role of Moses and Elijah (who are dead as at this time) in the coming death of Jesus?

As for worship, you can do well to refer me to where you explained it, at least I can know what constitutes worship and how I should worship God.

PastorOluT:


Just continue to delude urself, mary's worship is now d same as Jesus talkin to moses n Elijah?

Was Jesus asking favors from or praying to n thru moses n elijah?

Please, define worship.

dmandy:


Thanks so much for that honest answer.

They were discussing about his coming death according to the bible. What could possibly be the role of Moses and Elijah (who are dead as at this time) in the coming death of Jesus?

As for worship, you can do well to refer me to where you explained it, at least I can know what constitutes worship and how I should worship God.

What constitute worship? I never defined bt only refered to a bible n dictionary.

NB And as for ow u should worship, it is innate, the expression just flows from within as a result of encountring Christ.

PastorOluT:


What constitute worship? I never defined bt only refered to a bible n dictionary.

NB And as for ow u should worship, it is innate, the expression just flows from within as a result of encountring Christ.

I love the part where you said worship flows from within, but then it doesn't stop within it flows outwards. Sir, are you finding it difficult to share your knowledge? How does the flow manifest itself outside? If it ends within how then are you able to differentiate between 'God-worship' and 'mary-worship'? Do you search all hearts and examine all motives?

Please sir, in what context was Jesus talking to Elijah and Moses? I mean, what does the previous verse to the verse you quoted say.

Was Jesus conversation with them a part of the prayer or had Jesus finished praying before he started talking to them?

Or could his conversation with them have been a part of his prayers?

PastorOluT:


Smiles, I have seen this before so I aint ready for going back n forth. I strongly believe are disposed to a dictionary n bible, so help urself out.

But I will oblige ur second question on what Jesus was discussing with them.

And, behold there talked with Him two men, which were Moses and Elias: Who appeared in glory, and spake of His decease which He should accomplish at Jerusalem Luke 9:30-31.

U see they were discussing His crucifision, not Him praying to them or seeking some help!

PastorAIO:
Please sir, in what context was Jesus talking to Elijah and Moses? I mean, what does the previous verse to the verse you quoted say.

Was Jesus conversation with them a part of the prayer or had Jesus finished praying before he started talking to them?

Or could his conversation with them have been a part of his prayers?

Yes His conversation with them came at the time of prayers alright as the preceeding verse(s) suggested, bt that did not in anyways prove a point that He was seeking or praying to them. They simply came to deliver a msg.

Divine encounters can come anytime be it in prayers or otherwise, one has received visions, revelations, trance etc at whatever time aside prayers. In the scriptures most people that encountered supernatural beings werent prayin nor seeking.

NB They simply came to deliver a msg, just like Gabriel to mary n Elizabeth.

dmandy:


I love the part where you said worship flows from within, but then it doesn't stop within it flows outwards. Sir, are you finding it difficult to share your knowledge? How does the flow manifest itself outside? If it ends within how then are you able to differentiate between 'God-worship' and 'mary-worship'? Do you search all hearts and examine all motives?

Smile, u want to put words in my mouth. Did I ever mention worship stoping within? "Worship is a thing of the heart but does not end there, it flows from within outward as we all take different form of worship. Forms like singing, praises, bowing, kneeling etc and even prayers"

Everyone knows what worship is so cut the crap.

NB I am quite familiar with ur tact, u are not worshiping mary only venerating her?

Ok pls tell me what worship means to u since u are trying to prove a point?

PastorOluT:


Yes His conversation with them came at the time of prayers alright as the preceeding verse(s) suggested, bt that did not in anyways prove a point that He was seeking or praying to them. They simply came to deliver a msg.

Divine encounters can come anytime be it in prayers or otherwise, one has received visions, revelations, trance etc at whatever time aside prayers. In the scriptures most people that encountered supernatural beings werent prayin nor seeking.

NB They simply came to deliver a msg, just like Gabriel to mary n Elizabeth.

If you can accept that the came to deliver a msg then why is it so hard to accept, for example, that Mary came to deliver a message to 3 little girls in Fatima in 1917.

worship (n.)
Old English worðscip, wurðscip (Anglian), weorðscipe (West Saxon) "condition of being worthy, dignity, glory, distinction, honor, renown," from weorð "worthy" (see worth) + -scipe (see -ship). Sense of "reverence paid to a supernatural or divine being" is first recorded c. 1300. The original sense is preserved in the title worshipful "honorable" (c. 1300)

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=worship

I think worship means simple to acknowledge the Worth and dignity of something or someone. You can call a Judge 'your worship'. 'your worshipful eminence'.

If there is a certain reverence that should be given only to god then it would be good to know how this reverence should be enacted.

It is certainly not by Speaking to the entity as in prayer.

It is certainly not by beseeching it, as we constantly beseech each other in our daily lives.

So what is this act that should only be done before God? Is it kneeling? Like we do before our parents?
What is it?

dmandy:


Thanks so much for that honest answer.

They were discussing about his coming death according to the bible. What could possibly be the role of Moses and Elijah (who are dead as at this time) in the coming death of Jesus?

As for worship, you can do well to refer me to where you explained it, at least I can know what constitutes worship and how I should worship God.

The symbolism is that both the law (Moses) and prophet (Elijah) are no more required to seek the face of God, only Jesus is required! Hence, immediately after the transfiguration, a voice affirmed it by telling the disciple to listen to Jesus with whom he's well pleased!

PastorOluT:


Smile, u want to put words in my mouth. Did I ever mention worship stoping within? "Worship is a thing of the heart but does not end there, it flows from within outward as we all take different form of worship. Forms like singing, praises, bowing, kneeling etc and even prayers"

Everyone knows what worship is so cut the crap.

NB I am quite familiar with ur tact, u are not worshiping mary only venerating her?

Ok pls tell me what worship means to u since u are trying to prove a point?

Sir,

You neglected the place I asked about the role of Moses and Elijah in the death of Christ.

I am sure you never read where I said you mentioned worshipping stops within? I only asked you how it manifests itself outside because I assumed (you didn't say) you know that it doesn't stop within. And to this you have given me answers including singing, praising, kneeling, bowing, praying etc. Thank You. Now, all these that you have mentioned are manifestations of 'interior' worship. Can I ask you this whether everyone doing any of those things is truly worshipping.

You have assumed I don't worship Mary. I do worship her. Veneration is also a form of worship. You should ask "do I worship Mary the same way I worship God?" And I will answer no, to God have I reserved the highest form of worship which is total submission and abandonment to his will.

Worship to me can be seen as either of ''the showing of great love, devotion and respect for someone or someone"

DiademSh07:

The symbolism is that both the law (Moses) and prophet (Elijah) are no more required to seek the face of God, only Jesus is required! Hence, immediately after the transfiguration, a voice affirmed it by telling the disciple to listen to Jesus with whom he's well pleased!

Thanks so much.

You think this explains why they had to come from 'death' to speak about the death of Christ?

dmandy:


Thanks so much.

You think this explains why they had to come from 'death' to speak about the death of Christ?

They didn't come from death though!
Let me remind you that there was no account on Moses and Elijah's death in the bible! Elijah ascended to heaven and Moses was taken to a mountain to see the promised land and after which he was no where to be found!
The symbolism of their appearance is to confirm the death of Christ which symbolises the death of both the law and Prophet!

5So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD. 6And He buried him in the valley in the land of Moab, opposite Beth-peor; but no man knows his burial place to this day. 7Although Moses was one hundred and twenty years old when he died

Deuteronomy 34

DiademSh07:

They didn't come from death though!
Let me remind you that there was no account on Moses and Elijah's death in the bible! Elijah ascended to heaven and Moses was taken to a mountain to see the promised land and after which he was no where to be found!
The symbolism of their appearance is to confirm the death of Christ which symbolises the death of both the law and Prophet!

dmandy:


Sir,

You neglected the place I asked about the role of Moses and Elijah in the death of Christ.

I am sure you never read where I said you mentioned worshipping stops within? I only asked you how it manifests itself outside because I assumed (you didn't say) you know that it doesn't stop within. And to this you have given me answers including singing, praising, kneeling, bowing, praying etc. Thank You. Now, all these that you have mentioned are manifestations of 'interior' worship. Can I ask you this whether everyone doing any of those things is truly worshipping.

You have assumed I don't worship Mary. I do worship her. Veneration is also a form of worship. You should ask "do I worship Mary the same way I worship God?" And I will answer no, to God have I reserved the highest form of worship which is total submission and abandonment to his will.

Worship to me can be seen as either of ''the showing of great love, devotion and respect for someone or someone"

Why would you show any form of worship to Mary in the first place when Jesus said no one can come to the father except through him?
When the disciple gathered on the day of pentecost to ask for the gift of holy ghost, need I remind you that no one was seen pleading to Mary for any stupid intercession!
As a matter of fact, Mary herself opened her mouth to pray hard for the gift of holy ghost to descend on her! That's even a little thing when you realised that Jesus never called Mary his mother when he was here on earth! Note that when Mary asked him to change water to wine, he replied 'woman'... Another was when he was told that his mother and brothers were seeking for him, he replied that those that listen to his word and do the will of his father in heaven are his mothers, sisters, brothers! This invariably means that no matter who you are, once you are holy and righteous, he's ready to take you as his mother, brother, sister and do whatever you wish for!
Thirdly, when his brother and Mary came to the place he was crucified, he told his brother to look at Mary, his mother and Mary to look at his brother, his son! This mean both Mary and the said brother had no right to grieve for him because he was never part of them in the first place nor part of the family! His family is with God who solely created him as his son before he was put in Mary's womb!
Hence, Mary is just a human like you are! She was just favoured to birth Christ like a surrogate mother who's womb was used to birth an already feterlized foetus!

How do you just make up all this stuff?

You should be a fiction writer. How do you know that Jesus never called Mary 'Mum'? Just because it's not written in the bible? Are you also going to tell us that Jesus never took a poo? That's not recorded in the bible either.

DiademSh07:

Why would you show any form of worship to Mary in the first place when Jesus said no one can come to the father except through him?
When the disciple gathered on the day of pentecost to ask for the gift of holy ghost, need I remind you that no one was seen pleading to Mary for any stupid intercession!
As a matter of fact, Mary herself opened her mouth to pray hard for the gift of holy ghost to descend on her! That's even a little thing when you realised that Jesus never called Mary his mother when he was here on earth! Note that when Mary asked him to change water to wine, he replied 'woman'... Another was when he was told that his mother and brothers were seeking for him, he replied that those that listen to his word and do the will of his father in heaven are his mothers, sisters, brothers! This invariably means that no matter who you are, once you are holy and righteous, he's ready to take you as his mother, brother, sister and do whatever you wish for!
Thirdly, when his brother and Mary came to the place he was crucified, he told his brother to look at Mary, his mother and Mary to look at his brother, his son! This mean both Mary and the said brother had no right to grieve for him because he was never part of them in the first place nor part of the family! His family is with God who solely created him as his son before he was put in Mary's womb!
Hence, Mary is just a human like you are! She was just favoured to birth Christ like a surrogate mother who's womb was used to birth an already feterlized foetus!

PastorAIO:
[color=#770077]5So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD. 6And He buried him in the valley in the land of Moab, opposite Beth-peor; but no man knows his burial place to this day. 7Although Moses was one hundred and twenty years old when he died

Deuteronomy 34

Note that it was God that told Israel that Moses died and He was also the one that buried him which obviously mean he didn't go through a normal death and his soul immediately ascended to God!

DiademSh07:

They didn't come from death though!
Let me remind you that there was no account on Moses and Elijah's death in the bible! Elijah ascended to heaven and Moses was taken to a mountain to see the promised land and after which he was no where to be found!
The symbolism of their appearance is to confirm the death of Christ which symbolises the death of both the law and Prophet!

You are very correct Sir,

They came from the mountain.

So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD Deut. 34:5

PastorAIO:
How do you just make up all this stuff?

You should be a fiction writer. How do you know that Jesus never called Mary 'Mum'? Just because it's not written in the bible? Are you also going to tell us that Jesus never took a poo? That's not recorded in the bible either.

Because there was never any occasion in the Bible where he had to poo as opposed to several occasion where he could have called Mary his mother but chose not to but rather called her woman!
As a matter of fact, this make sense because
Jesus existed even before Mary was created!

dmandy:


You are very correct Sir,

They came from the mountain.

So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD Deut. 34:5

Note that bolded part!
Only God was with him in the end and no one saw his grave nor his dead body!

DiademSh07:

Why would you show any form of worship to Mary in the first place when Jesus said no one can come to the father except through him?
When the disciple gathered on the day of pentecost to ask for the gift of holy ghost, need I remind you that no one was seen pleading to Mary for any stupid intercession!
As a matter of fact, Mary herself opened her mouth to pray hard for the gift of holy ghost to descend on her! That's even a little thing when you realised that Jesus never called Mary his mother when he was here on earth! Note that when Mary asked him to change water to wine, he replied 'woman'... Another was when he was told that his mother and brothers were seeking for him, he replied that those that listen to his word and do the will of his father in heaven are his mothers, sisters, brothers! This invariably means that no matter who you are, once you are holy and righteous, he's ready to take you as his mother, brother, sister and do whatever you wish for!
Thirdly, when his brother and Mary came to the place he was crucified, he told his brother to look at Mary, his mother and Mary to look at his brother, his son! This mean both Mary and the said brother had no right to grieve for him because he was never part of them in the first place nor part of the family! His family is with God who solely created him as his son before he was put in Mary's womb!
Hence, Mary is just a human like you are! She was just favoured to birth Christ like a surrogate mother who's womb was used to birth an already feterlized foetus!

Why was Mary there with the apostles at the day of Pentecost? To pray for the Holy Ghost that came upon her and overshadowed her? You did not explain that part well?

Jesus never called Mary his mother!, maybe He was calling her his aunty and what does that have to do with anything?

Lolz, Mary has no right to grieve for him because he was never part of the family, you say? Why not join basket mouth?

Yes, like a surrogate mother, who fed him from a surrogate placenta in her surrogate womb, and nursed her with her surrogate breast. Keep reasoning trash with your surrogate brain.

The only thing you have said here is that I should not offer Mary any form of worship because Jesus is the only way. Well, calling Mary blessed is a form of worship and Jesus the only way approves of it. You see, the problem is that you think that by bringing Mary down you are raising Jesus up. Nothing can be farther from the truth. Mary does not take the place of Jesus just because you love and cherish her, rather her soul 'magnifies' the lord. Think of the medicine you take to heal you of your ailment, does it in any way neutralize the power of God to heal you? But rather the power of God can be made manifest through that medicine. Open your eyes lest you course the one whom all generations are commanded to call blessed.

DiademSh07:

Note that bolded part!
Only God was with him in the end and no one saw his grave nor his dead body!

So, did God lie that Moses died?

Bia, What is your business with his grave and dead body. See wahala ooo. E be like say u like to doubt God. God said Moses is dead and you are asking for his body. .