PastorAIO:


Okay o, some bodily functions but not all. Only those bodily functions that we read about in the bible.

After Jesus digested the food what happened? Did the food just rapture from his belle? Because nowhere in the bible do we read that Jesus ever went to the toilet.

Argument from silence, huh?
We are not told of Barthlomew's parents, does that mean that Barthlomew was/is eternal?

Personally in is my doctrine that food automatically raptured from his stomach.

Why do you eliminate what NATURALLY happens to food in human body?

MuttleyLaff:


With Deuteronomy 23:12-13 in mind, there is a mention of a toilet of some sort in the bible
however nowhere in the bible do we read that anyone specifically or somebody in particular ever went to the toilet(s)
Haba! Going to the toilet, sitting on the throne, is not something deemed uncommon for Jesus to do

Thank you my broda!

MuttleyLaff:


With Deuteronomy 23:12-13 in mind, there is a mention of a toilet of some sort in the bible
however nowhere in the bible do we read that anyone specifically or somebody in particular ever went to the toilet(s)
Haba! Going to the toilet, sitting on the throne, is not something deemed uncommon for Jesus to do

Well, at least now we know that toilet is biblical. I used to fear damnation everytime that I went to poo.

vooks:

Argument from silence, huh?
We are not told of Barthlomew's parents, does that mean that Barthlomew was/is eternal?

BINGO!!

Now can you apply your reasoning here to the claims that Jesus never called Mary 'Mom'?

Or that after the Holy spirit overshadowed her it later left her, until she received the spirit at pentecost?


I believe that we're starting to make progress. Well done!!

PastorAIO:


BINGO!!

Now can you apply your reasoning here to the claims that Jesus never called Mary 'Mom'?


I believe that we're starting to make progress. Well done!!

Who said Jesus never called Mary 'mother'?
Are you mistaking me for somebody else?

vooks:

Who said Jesus never called Mary 'mother'?
Are you mistaking me for somebody else?

I say you have. I could be wrong in which case rather than have me go on a wild goose chase in which I might never find the post why don't you just state it categorically her for the record:

Jesus acknowledged Mary as his mother and called her so. Those passages where Jesus calls her woman have no bearing on the filial relationship he had with her.

Can you say the bolded?

italo:
If it is paganism to talk to Mary, it was paganism when Jesus talked to Moses and Elijah

This is a chalk and cheese comparison

PastorOluT:
Just continue to delude urself,
Mary's worship is now d same as Jesus talkin to Moses n Elijah?

Was Jesus asking favors from or praying to n thru Moses n Elijah?

Maybe Moses and Elijah were receiving a commendation after handing over (i.e. transference)

dmandy:
Pastor, can you please explain to us what worship means.
And while you are at it you can throw more light on what Jesus was discussing with Moses and Elijah

The illumination really has to be on why did Jesus need three witnessing Him meeting with Moses and Elijah

PastorOluT:
Smiles, I have seen this before so I aint ready for going back n forth.
I strongly believe are disposed to a dictionary n bible, so help urself out.

But I will oblige ur second question on what Jesus was discussing with them

And, behold there talked with Him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
Who appeared in glory, and spake of His decease which He should accomplish at Jerusalem
Luke 9:30-31.

U see they were discussing His crucifixion, not Him praying to them or seeking some help!

Discussing His crucifixion? Is that all?
Jesus usually goes up alone to pray, but this particular time made an exception by taking Peter, John, and James along with Him
Peter, John, and James were not only allowed to see Moses and Elijah but also were able to experience and see Mark 9:1, Luke 9:27 or Matthew 16:28 to come true
The questions are:
1) Did Moses and Elijah see Peter, John, and James?
2) Were Moses and Elijah conscious of Peter, John, and James?
3) Why did Jesus allow Peter, John, and James to visually see and come to realize or understand that it is Moses and Elijah they are seeing?
4) What did the presence of Moses and Elijah represent? (i.e. what did the individually stand for)
5) Apart from the transfiguration, what else were Peter, John, and James witnessing?

dmandy:
Thanks so much for that honest answer

Honest answer it might be
but we all know that PastorOluT didnt or wasnt able to give the entirety of the answer

dmandy:
They were discussing about his coming death according to the bible.
What could possibly be the role of Moses and Elijah (who are dead as at this time) in the coming death of Jesus[/b]?

As for worship, you can do well to refer me to where you explained it, at least I can know what constitutes worship and how I should worship God

Yeah, thats what I like you and PastorOluT to share with all
What could possibly be the role of Moses and Elijah (who are dead as at this time) in the coming death of Jesus
What could possibly be the significance of the presence Moses and Elijah (who are dead as at this time) on that mountain at that night, in the coming death of Jesus

PastorAIO:


I say you have. I could be wrong in which case rather than have me go on a wild goose chase in which I might never find the post why don't you just state it categorically her for the record:

Jesus acknowledged Mary as his mother and called her so. Those passages where Jesus calls her woman have no bearing on the filial relationship he had with her.

Can you say the bolded?

Just for the record.
Was Jesus being rude to Mary when He referred to her as "woman" in John 2:4 and/or John 19:26?

Am more interested in John 2:4 particularly to know why she's called ''woman''
and not at all interested when He repeated it again in John 19:26
In short, am not concerned about John 19:26 until anyone is willing to share why John was chosen for her in John 19:26

And Jesus said to her, "Woman, what does that have to do with us? My hour has not yet come."
- John 2:4

²⁶When Jesus then saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing nearby, He said to His mother, "Woman, behold, your son!"
²⁷Then He said to the disciple, "Behold, your mother!" From that hour the disciple took her into his own household
- John 19:26-27

MuttleyLaff:
Just for the record.
Was Jesus being rude to Mary when He referred to her as "woman" in John 2:4 and/or John 19:26?

Am more interested in John 2:4 particularly to know why she's called ''woman''
and not at all interested when He repeated it again in John 19:26
In short, am not concerned about John 19:26 until anyone is willing to share why John was chosen for her in John 19:26

And Jesus said to her, "Woman, what does that have to do with us? My hour has not yet come."
- John 2:4

²⁶When Jesus then saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing nearby, He said to His mother, "Woman, behold, your son!"
²⁷Then He said to the disciple, "Behold, your mother!" From that hour the disciple took her into his own household
- John 19:26-27

I do not think that Jesus was being rude to her.

You bring up quite a few off topic points, so while you're at it please permit me to do the same.

If Mary had other children besides Jesus then why should she leave her able children to move into the home of John?

MuttleyLaff:
This is a chalk and cheese comparison

Maybe Moses and Elijah were receiving a commendation after handing over (i.e. transference)

The illumination really has to be on why did Jesus need three witnessing Him meeting with Moses and Elijah

Discussing His crucifixion? Is that all?
Jesus usually goes up alone to pray, but this particular time made an exception by taking Peter, John, and James along with Him
Peter, John, and James were not only allowed to see Moses and Elijah but also were able to experience and see Mark 9:1, Luke 9:27 or Matthew 16:28 to come true
The questions are:
1) Did Moses and Elijah see Peter, John, and James?
2) Were Moses and Elijah conscious of Peter, John, and James?
3) Why did Jesus allow Peter, John, and James to visually see and come to realize or understand that it is Moses and Elijah they are seeing?
4) What did the presence of Moses and Elijah represent? (i.e. what did the individually stand for)
5) Apart from the transfiguration, what else were Peter, John, and James witnessing?

Honest answer it might be
but we all know that PastorOluT didnt or wasnt able to give the entirety of the answer

Yeah, thats what I like you and PastorOluT to share with all
What could possibly be the role of Moses and Elijah (who are dead as at this time) in the coming death of Jesus
What could possibly be the significance of the presence Moses and Elijah (who are dead as at this time) on that mountain at that night, in the coming death of Jesus

A lot of these questions are off topic but interesting all the same.

I just want to say, the transfiguration was not the only time Jesus went to pray with others. Specifically those 3 others. Matt 26:36. His prayer in Gethsemane is another recorded example.

The whole point is about the belief that the departed are alive and are a part of the Living communion that is the church. And we can commune with them as we do our living fellows.

PastorAIO:
I do not think that Jesus was being rude to her

Refreshing to know, you do not think that Jesus was being rude to her
Why address her ''woman'' then. What is His point in referencing her in that manner?
Is it part of the culture for a son address his mother ''woman''?

PastorAIO:
You bring up quite a few off topic points, so while you're at it please permit me to do the same.

I am not haphazardly bringing up quite a few off topic points.
I am only responding to what I've met already mentioned and referred to on the thread
Sure you have right of passage

PastorAIO:
If Mary had other children besides Jesus then why should she leave her able children to move into the home of John?

Simple, it's called estrangement
- she didnt leave her able children, they left her, she was already abandoned, just as Jesus too was abandoned
Jesus knew this (i.e. she'll be left without needed protection or care) that's why He roped John in
Even if James didnt abandon her, remember it's only John who wasnt martyred but lived enough to die a natural death unlike the other apostles

PastorAIO:
A lot of these questions are off topic but interesting all the same

Whatever questions I ask, they all stem from what I met on ground, as in, what already was mentioned, raised or hinted on this thread

PastorAIO:
I just want to say, the transfiguration was not the only time Jesus went to pray with others.

It is the only time Jesus took along others (i.e. three witnesses of Peter, John, and James)
normally when Jesus goes up the mountain to pray, He goes alone

PastorAIO:
Specifically those 3 others. Matt 26:36.
His prayer in Gethsemane is another recorded example

The transfiguration among other things happened in the Garden of Gethsemane or if you prefer, the Mount of Olives

PastorAIO:
The whole point is about the belief that the departed are alive and are a part of the Living communion that is the church.
And we can commune with them as we do our living fellows.

Am not sure you're correct implying that we can, as yet commune with them as we do our living fellows
Did Peter, John, and James commune with Moses and Elijah? I dont think so

PastorAIO:


I say you have. I could be wrong in which case rather than have me go on a wild goose chase in which I might never find the post why don't you just state it categorically her for the record:

Jesus acknowledged Mary as his mother and called her so. Those passages where Jesus calls her woman have no bearing on the filial relationship he had with her.

Can you say the bolded?

You will need to quote me or zip it

As to those words, they may/may not have any bearing to nothing

PastorAIO:

If Mary had other children besides Jesus then why should she leave her able children to move into the home of John?

I can think of a dozen reasons why Mary would move into the home of John'
1. Moving into the home of John is a figment of your imagination
2. John could have been the more able if indeed she did move
3.


In the interest of time and space I stop there. Point is this very act proves zilch in favor of Mary's perpetual virginity or want of biological children, for think; even if all those kids readily identified as hers severally were 'cousins' or step-kids, would they not have been better placed to look after her than a totally non-blood relation?

PastorAIO:


A lot of these questions are off topic but interesting all the same.

I just want to say, the transfiguration was not the only time Jesus went to pray with others. Specifically those 3 others. Matt 26:36. His prayer in Gethsemane is another recorded example.

[B]The whole point is about the belief that the departed are alive and are a part of the Living communion that is the church. And we can commune with them as we do our living fellows.[/B]

That should bring us back to topic

PastorAIO:


I do not think that Jesus was being rude to her.

You bring up quite a few off topic points, so while you're at it please permit me to do the same.

If Mary had other children besides Jesus then why should she leave her able children to move into the home of John?

HMMM

PastorAIO:


Well, at least now we know that toilet is biblical. I used to fear damnation everytime that I went to poo.

what about sneezing, is dat also biblical?

PastorAIO:


Okay o, some bodily functions but not all. Only those bodily functions that we read about in the bible.

After Jesus digested the food what happened? Did the food just rapture from his belle? Because nowhere in the bible do we read that Jesus ever went to the toilet. Personally in is my doctrine that food automatically raptured from his stomach.

LOL

MuttleyLaff:
Whatever questions I ask, they all stem from what I met on ground, as in, what already was mentioned, raised or hinted on this thread

It is the only time Jesus took along others (i.e. three witnesses of Peter, John, and James)
normally when Jesus goes up the mountain to pray, He goes alone

The transfiguration among other things happened in the Garden of Gethsemane or if you prefer, the Mount of Olives

Am not sure you're correct implying that we can, as yet commune with them as we do our living fellows
Did Peter, John, and James commune with Moses and Elijah? I dont think so

I thought the transfiguration happen at mount tabor?

Ubenedictus:
I thought the transfiguration happen at mount tabor?

Now,

This is not joke section. Please.

Aizenosa:
Chai, it's wonderful to watch protestants go against their very foundation, right from inception it seems that dey have designed their thoughts to be upside down, hmm let's wait and see how they will be in the 28th century.

A house built on sand. they continue sinking on it.

Ubenedictus:
A house built on sand. they continue sinking on it.

We'd rather be divided in truth than united in Satanism

PastorAIO:


If you can accept that the came to deliver a msg then why is it so hard to accept, for example, that Mary came to deliver a message to 3 little girls in Fatima in 1917.

I am back!
Cant u see u are misconstruing the scripture "not knowing the scriptures nor the power", how in the world will u compare that to mary's appearance. Ok maybe u forgot let me remind u

Firstly we are in the New Testament era and messages are no longer sent through intermediary, tho this is the way God dealt with the people of old but now things has changed with the coming of Jesus Christ.

The bible says God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds.
Hebrews 1:1

Secondly God dont just do things without a reason, now if I may ask what was the reason for the appearing of Mary? Was it to show forth the person of Jesus or glorify Him? Smile I tot as much.

NB I had given a detailed reply to this msg a long time but it was not posted.

MuttleyLaff:

The questions are:
1) Did Moses and Elijah see Peter, John, and James?
2) Were Moses and Elijah conscious of Peter, John, and James?
3) Why did Jesus allow Peter, John, and James to visually see and come to realize or understand that it is Moses and Elijah they are seeing?
4) What did the presence of Moses and Elijah represent? (i.e. what did the individually stand for)
5) Apart from the transfiguration, what else were Peter, John, and James witnessing?

but we all know that PastorOluT didnt or wasnt able to give the entirety of the answer

Funny u, what entirety to u seek, cos all I can u from ur questions and all u said is nothing but assumptions which will only lead to more assumptions.

PastorOluT:


I am back!

Kaabo

Cant u see u are misconstruing the scripture "not knowing the scriptures nor the power", how in the world will u compare that to mary's appearance. Ok maybe u forgot let me remind u

Firstly we are in the New Testament era and messages are no longer sent through intermediary, tho this is the way God dealt with the people of old but now things has changed with the coming of Jesus Christ.

The bible says God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds.
Hebrews 1:1

Compare:

26[b]Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip[/b], “Rise and go toward the southd to the road that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.” This is a desert place. 27And he rose and went. And there was an Ethiopian, a eunuch, a court official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, ---Acts 8


3About the ninth hour of the daya he saw clearly in a vision[b] an angel of God come in and say to him[/b], “Cornelius.” 4And he stared at him in terror and said, “What is it, Lord?” And he said to him, “Your prayers and your alms have ascended as a memorial before God. 5And now send men to Joppa and bring one Simon who is called Peter. 6He is lodging with one Simon, a tanner, whose house is by the sea.” 7[b]When the angel who spoke to him had departed[/b], he called two of his servants and a devout soldier from among those who attended him, 8and having related everything to them, he sent them to Joppa. Acts 10

Secondly God dont just do things without a reason, now if I may ask what was the reason for the appearing of Mary? Was it to show forth the person of Jesus or glorify Him? Smile I tot as much.

NB I had given a detailed reply to this msg a long time but it was not posted.

I am in no position to speak for God's motivations for doing whatever he does whether he is within reason or not, I know that even when there is a reason for something it does not follow that I must be aware of that reason. There are many things that perplex me and I am happy to admit that I do not see nor know the reason for them though that does not preclude the possibility that there's a reason for the events.

Your note has been noted, however it hasn't bothered me that it's taken you this long to respond, so no apology necessary (presuming it's an apology)

author=PastorAIO post=41450202]

Kaabo

E se

Compare:

26[b]Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip[/b], “Rise and go toward the southd to the road that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.” This is a desert place. 27And he rose and went. And there was an Ethiopian, a eunuch, a court official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, ---Acts 8


3About the ninth hour of the daya he saw clearly in a vision[b] an angel of God come in and say to him[/b], “Cornelius.” 4And he stared at him in terror and said, “What is it, Lord?” And he said to him, “Your prayers and your alms have ascended as a memorial before God. 5And now send men to Joppa and bring one Simon who is called Peter. 6He is lodging with one Simon, a tanner, whose house is by the sea.” 7[b]When the angel who spoke to him had departed[/b], he called two of his servants and a devout soldier from among those who attended him, 8and having related everything to them, he sent them to Joppa. Acts 10

Yes this is the scripture and well agreed, do you now compare this to that of mary? And note angelic visitation ain't rampant anymore but they do exist.

Maybe u can just give me one example of an old saint that came back with message or whatever?

I am in no position to speak for God's motivations for doing whatever he does whether he is within reason or not, I know that even when there is a reason for something it does not follow that I must be aware of that reason. There are many things that perplex me and I am happy to admit that I do not see nor know the reason for them though that does not preclude the possibility that there's a reason for the events.

Surprising, but all u have been doing all the while was assuming, so why don't u employ that again?

Your note has been noted, however it hasn't bothered me that it's taken you this long to respond, so no apology necessary (presuming it's an apology)

Sorry, the note is not for u, its for me and probably the mods n others. I will want to believe u know the pain of typing so much only to discover that it wasnt posted? But why take things so personal loosen up bro

Compliment of the season

PastorOluT:


E se


Yes this is the scripture and well agreed, do you now compare this to that of mary? And note angelic visitation ain't rampant anymore but they do exist.

PastorOluT:

Cant u see u are misconstruing the scripture "not knowing the scriptures nor the power", how in the world will u compare that to mary's appearance. Ok maybe u forgot let me remind u
Firstly we are in the New Testament era and messages are no longer sent through intermediary, tho this is the way God dealt with the people of old but now things has changed with the coming of Jesus Christ.
The bible says God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds.
Hebrews 1:1

Your position is not clear from your posts. Does God send messages through intermediaries or not? Also, I don't know that angelic visitations 'ain't rampant anymore'. I think that depends on who you ask. Some people see angels everyday. I believe I have a guardian angel and it communicates to me all the time.

Maybe u can just give me one example of an old saint that came back with message or whatever?

Why?

Surprising, but all u have been doing all the while was assuming, so why don't u employ that again?

That is very presumptious of you. I generally tend to state clearly that I'm making assumptions when I do. I have a wide range of notions from Most casually fanciful to die-cast belief. I don't think I've made any wild assumptions on this thread and if you know me better you would know that one thing that I resent is people who claim to second guess God or know the mind of God. It would be very hypocritical of me to then start to pontificate on the reasons that God would do anything that he does.

Sorry, the note is not for u, its for me and probably the mods n others. I will want to believe u know the pain of typing so much only to discover that it wasnt posted? But why take things so personal loosen up bro

Compliment of the season

I'm going to go for a run and then do some stretching. I hope to be a lot looser then.

[quote author=PastorAIO post=41452706]



Your position is not clear from your posts. Does God send messages through intermediaries or not? Also, I don't know that angelic visitations 'ain't rampant anymore'. I think that depends on who you ask. Some people see angels everyday. I believe I have a guardian angel and it communicates to me all the time.

When I said intermediary I meant thru people dead or alive, and not angels. How many encounters of dead people delivering messages in the scriptures are there? A handful right, which tells us something about how God desires to deal with us.

God dealt with people based on their understanding, really will dont need physical manifestation of beings anymore cos that would much appeal to our senses. The people of old and even the early christians are are more sensual and have limited revelation which makes God appeal to their senses more to believe and understand. We are spiritual (this is not to mean the people of old are not spiritual) and thus have greater revelation believe it or not (compare the revelation of Paul and Peter), and God do not need to do much to appeal to our senses to believe. We walk by faith more and not by senses, or what do u think was the reasons for those revelations? To strengthen their faith in their walk with God, this is the reason we don't have to put salt in water anymore for the water to turn sweet as Elisha, but just believe and speak the word and things happen.

Concerning people seeing angels and guardian angels, I have seen one myself but my stance still remain that that is not a norm anymore.
Why?

That is very presumptious of you. I generally tend to state clearly that I'm making assumptions when I do. I have a wide range of notions from Most casually fanciful to die-cast belief. I don't think I've made any wild assumptions on this thread and if you know me better you would know that one thing that I resent is people who claim to second guess God or know the mind of God. It would be very hypocritical of me to then start to pontificate on the reasons that God would do anything that he does.

No need to say much on this cos like u said i dont know u, so i will be patient observing.

I'm going to go for a run and then do some stretching. I hope to be a lot looser then.

Good for u cos I hope to have a more mature discussion with u than some of ur members.

PastorOluT:

When I said intermediary I meant thru people dead or alive, and not angels. How many encounters of dead people delivering messages in the scriptures are there? A handful right, which tells us something about how God desires to deal with us.

PastorOluT:

Firstly we are in the New Testament era and messages are no longer sent through intermediary, tho this is the way God dealt with the people of old but now things has changed with the coming of Jesus Christ.

Please can you give me an example of God sending a message through a dead intermediary in the Old testament as you say. And why do you think that God would then change from doing so?

Also, I take it that you now accept that God communicates through intermediaries and not only directly as you claimed earlier.

PastorOluT:

God dealt with people based on their understanding, really will dont need physical manifestation of beings anymore cos that would much appeal to our senses. The people of old and even the early christians are are more sensual and have limited revelation which makes God appeal to their senses more to believe and understand.

In what way are we less sensual today than in the days of old that we don't need physical manifestations. And then again what do you mean by sensual or physical. Would you call visions sensual experiences? After all sight is one of the 5 senses. Or do you just mean tactile?

PastorOluT:

We are spiritual (this is not to mean the people of old are not spiritual) and thus have greater revelation believe it or not (compare the revelation of Paul and Peter), and God do not need to do much to appeal to our senses to believe. We walk by faith more and not by senses, or what do u think was the reasons for those revelations?

What is this greater more spiritual revelation that we are supposed to have? And what does it all have to do with whether the dead can commune with us and pray for us as we pray for each other and can inspire us?

PastorOluT:

PastorOluT:

vooks:

We'd rather be divided in truth than united in Satanism

u cant b divided in d truth, unles u are divided by d truth. Truth refuse all contradicting opinion. If u contradict urself and remain divide in contradiction, then u are worst than a satanist. All who hold truth agree, not contradict, if ur cult are contradicting each other and claimin to b d truth then somebody is lying

dmandy:


Now,

This is not joke section. Please.

i'm serious. Help me check if i'm wrong.

Ubenedictus:
u cant b divided in d truth, unles u are divided by d truth. Truth refuse all contradicting opinion. If u contradict urself and remain divide in contradiction, then u are worst than a satanist. All who hold truth agree, not contradict, if ur cult are contradicting each other and claimin to b d truth then somebody is lying

Are you possessed by the virgin?