Sunglass20:

So other Christians who are not Catholics, who don't pretend to be celibates and destroy the lives of innocent girls by defiling them won't make heaven I guess?

I haven't said anything about heaven. To know what the Church teaches about salvation outside the Catholic Church, read CCC 846-848. Stop making harsh comments out of ignorance.

I know that you're not insinuating that all Catholic pretend to be celibate, then defile young girls... and that Protestants and other non-Catholics don't pretend to be celibate, then defile young girls. That would be...an unreasonable statement at best.

Sunglass20:

The Catholic ministers...how many of them ever stand by you when you are in need and in pain?

Many. They even help non-Catholics in need. I'm a member of Society of St. Vincent de Paul and what we do all year round is help the poor regardless of religion.

Every Catholic is a minister of some sort. Ask yourself how many people you stand by in their time of pain. It's useless to point fingers. The Church is both laity and clergy.

Sunglass20:


Like i said, i am a catholic and have seen how deep the devil Has destroyed the Church through Her Ministers. I am not perfect, i do my best to advice and help the innocent girls in their traps the best way i can. I already lost my belief in God seeing the way those who we see as Christ's representative and our guide to Christ, disrespect Christ and i almost came to a conclusion that God doesn't exist until I came in Contact with few Men of God who Revere God like He should Truly be revered in Spirit and in Truth. My life changed my Dear. Running from one Church to another is not the Solution because none is Perfect though some are better. I Love the Catholic church though, I will be there to do my best to affect the few lives I can positively. Christianity is a personal relationship with God.. It is Love for God that Flows to man.

Those 'men of God...' are they without sins? do you know their sins?

Christ never promised that his Church ministers will be sinless. He never promised that every member of his Church will be better in character than every person outside his Church.

He said:

Matt16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

John20:23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

Luke 10:16 He who hears you hears Me, he who rejects you rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me.”

Matt28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Whether the Church leaders sin or not.

Let me add this bonus: Christianity includes your relationship with the Church.

Matt18:17 If the member refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if the offender refuses to listen even to the church, let such a one be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

superior1:


I am no Roman Catholic nor Protestant, I am a member of the body of Christ.
@Speechless3, politics was introduced into Christianity some years back. A particular roman emperor wanted a religious state, he fought wars and killed many who didn't accept this, he formed a roman Christianity, it is called Roman Catholism (Rome is still existing today and so his the church he formed). Under him, forgiveness was sold to people for fees, alot of the original Christians were killed, people don't want to be Christians again because they love God, it became a religious activity demanded by the state.

Jesus has called us into a relationship, it has nothing to do with politics. That is what you should seek after and only in that relationship can you receive true meaning of life

Who was the emperor? Which wars did he fight? Who were these people he killed? When did he from this religion and was it this religion that compiled the NT after he formed it? Mention one original Christian that was killed?

Lies! Lies! Lies!

dukum:


Thanks for that i have made the necessary modification.

You are welcome

@Speechless3, years ago, I met the Holy Spirit. It was in the middle of the night, I was a Year 3 student at the University. Although I do attend church services, I was confused and my life was like a ship without a course, I was fastly glued and dead in my sins. Then I met the Holy Spirit.

It was a sincere simple prayer.....something like "Father, I know you are out there and you see me, you know I want to live right and I am confused of so many things, I need you in my life, I need you now. I invite you Holy Spirit into my life, come and indwell me, teach me and direct my ways, amen". I know it is not always so for everyone but I felt something that mid-night, words cant explain it, it was a warmth of love, an ease and unburdening of my soul, a peace in my spirit words cant explain....it is beyond words. The bible took a different meaning entirely, my love for the bible increased exponentially, I start to devour it like food, I study it and carry it all over where I go, it was a new me!. People who knew me before, felt and commented on the change in my life. The bible was/is no longer boring!!!, once I open it, there is this voice I never knew before, always giving expositions I never knew about stories and passages I have read and thought I understood before my encounter with the Holy Spirit.

What more, the Holy Spirit started speaking to me, initially I didnt even know but I noticed whenever I come across challenging situation, a portion of the bible will just repeat somewhere in my heart...it will fit exactly to the situation and carry answers also.

Yes, I still listen to genuine Teachers of the Bible (I simply know right within my spirit when I come across a fake one, they mostly preach doctrines of some fathers which are not in tandem with the bible, they practice doctrine of men). Christ enjoyed us to ask for the Holy Spirit, you need Him so that the bible will no longer remain boring to you.

They all claim to be inspired by the Holy Spirit. Millions of them. Yet they preach millions of contradictory doctrines.

They have millions of protestant denominations.

Is the Holy Spirit inspiring this confusion and division...

...or are these people lying against/misunderstanding the Holy Spirit?

I'm sure the answer is plain to see.

As for me, I know the Holy Spirit that inspired the Church to compile the Bible continues to inspire it's doctrine and wil never leave the Church - One Holy Catholic and Apostolic!

Jesus promised!

superior1:


I am no Roman Catholic nor Protestant, I am a member of the body of Christ.

Yet you read Martin Luther's Protestant Bible as your sole authority on matters of faith.

Hahaha!

Did Christ mention "bible?"

italo:


Who was the emperor? Which wars did he fight? Who were these people he killed? When did he from this religion and was it this religion that compiled the NT after he formed it? Mention one original Christian that was killed?

Lies! Lies! Lies!

@Speechless3, Have you heard about "The Crusade"....it is something you can read up when you have the time, you will see how a politicized Christianity fought bloody wars to gain political power.....Jesus didnt ask us to seek political power!!, He said my kingdom is not of this world !!!.
Again, it is no brainer....the word Roman is from Rome, Rome was once the seat of government....why then is the church representing the general christian body of Christ and His Apostles named Rome Church?, it is like saying Abuja Christians....think about it, why?, why?,why?.....simple, before it was made a state church and politicized, there were many others....the Cop, orthodox, eastern churches etc, you see why I dont talk about church organization to you and why you mustnt follow one whose doctrine was mainly collated by her adherents.......Follow the Holy Spirit, Follow the Bible, you wont miss it

superior1:


@Speechless3, Have you heard about "The Crusade"....it is something you can read up when you have the time, you will see how a politicized Christianity fought bloody wars to gain political power.....Jesus didnt ask us to seek political power!!, He said my kingdom is not of this world !!!.
Again, it is no brainer....the word Roman is from Rome, Rome was once the seat of government....why then is the church representing the general christian body of Christ and His Apostles named Rome Church?, it is like saying Abuja Christians....think about it, why?, why?,why?.....simple, before it was made a state church and politicized, there were many others....the Cop, orthodox, eastern churches etc, you see why I dont talk about church organization to you and why you mustnt follow one whose doctrine was mainly collated by her adherents.......Follow the Holy Spirit, Follow the Bible, you wont miss it

1. The Crusades were a just war to defend Christians and other non-muslims who were being murdered by ISIS-like Muslim militants in and around the Holy Land. You should be thankful for the Crusades. Without it, many more Christians would have been forcefully converted and/or killed.

2. "Roman" is used to indicate that the Church is in communion with the Bishop of Rome...who is the successor of St. Peter.

3. None of those Churches existed before the Catholic Church. Your story is false that's why you cannot give dates and details.

4. Which Bible should she follow? The one compiled in the Synod of Rome in 382 under Pope Damasus?

superior1:


Follow the Holy Spirit, Follow the Bible, you wont miss it

Here are two of your kind who claim to be following the Holy Spirit.

Yet one accuses the other of following demons.

Hahaha!

https://www.nairaland.com/2845672/conrad-mbewe-accuses-tb-joshua

You want speechless3 to join the confusion.

Speechless3:
Probably. But the catholic church still has the highest population. Can all these people be wrong?

Broad and wide is the road that leads to destruction and MANY go through it but narrow and near leads to eternal life and FEW find it, b joyful if you are among the few.

superior1:


@Speechless3, Have you heard about "The Crusade"....it is something you can read up when you have the time, you will see how a politicized Christianity fought bloody wars to gain political power.....Jesus didnt ask us to seek political power!!, He said my kingdom is not of this world !!!.
Again, it is no brainer....the word Roman is from Rome, Rome was once the seat of government....why then is the church representing the general christian body of Christ and His Apostles named Rome Church?, it is like saying Abuja Christians....think about it, why?, why?,why?.....simple, before it was made a state church and politicized, there were many others....the Cop, orthodox, eastern churches etc, you see why I dont talk about church organization to you and why you mustnt follow one whose doctrine was mainly collated by her adherents.......Follow the Holy Spirit, Follow the Bible, you wont miss it

Pastor Yemi Osinbajo (Vice President) and Pastor Chris Okotie (former Presidential candidate) who both claim to be inspired by the Holy Spirit need to hear this your sermon from your own Holy Spirit.

Hahaha!

italo:


Pastor Yemi Osinbajo (Vice President) and Pastor Chris Okotie (former Presidential candidate) who both claim to be inspired by the Holy Spirit need to hear this your sermon from your own Holy Spirit.

Hahaha!

Some of what you post as valid points are laughable (I suspect even to you) but typical of you;you are looking for someone to engage you in a ping-pong cycle, sorry I wont oblige you today, not on this thread. @Speechless3 is my attraction here, maybe I will open a thread on "The Roman Catholic Crusade" for all to read and judge, if I do, I will definitely call you out.

Sacluxpaint:


Broad and wide is the road that leads to destruction and MANY go through it but narrow and near leads to eternal life and FEW find it, b joyful if you are among the few.

So since Christianity is the world's biggest religion...

Does it lead to destruction?

Hahaha!

I was like you before @speechless. I did everything catholicable ( if there is a word like that) . But I felt trapped and confused, most of the scriptural interpretations of the catholic church didn't make sense. As in for instance, how can you be in bondage of confessing to a priest who might be much more sinful than yourself? Catholics use James 5:16 to justify confession, if thats the case they should confess to me. Catholics like holding onto 'tradition ' and Jesus clearly told the pharisees that they are putting traditions before God's commandments. Speechless3, Jesús loves you. Accept him as your personal lord and saviour before it's too late, and he would definitely give you the holy spirit. And if you are confused, ask(according to James 1:5). Ever since I left the catholic Church, my faith became stronger. I feel free, I am no longer under any confession bondage to a priest, no more virgin Mary ritual and hope for purgatory. Jesus is Lord.

italo:


So since Christianity is the world's biggest religion...

Does it lead to destruction?

Hahaha!

Oga I replied her post as catholics having the largest denomination of followers. My point is that being so many doesn't mean right.

superior1:


Some of what you post as valid points are laughable (I suspect even to you) but typical of you;you are looking for someone to engage you in a ping-pong cycle, sorry I wont oblige you today, not on this thread. @Speechless3 is my attraction here, maybe I will open a thread on "The Roman Catholic Crusade" for all to read and judge, if I do, I will definitely call you out.

You've made zero point as usual. You have nothing to back up your lies and error.

Since speechless3 is your attraction, tell her why you say we don't need the Church, when Jesus thinks we need the Church.

Tell her why you say we don't need intermediaries when Jesus gave us intermediaries.

Tell us why the Biblical Church and it's leaders and members could be physically located but yours is like an invisible secret society that has no leaders on earth, no hierarchy, no history, no doctrine, no basis, no origin, nothing!

Tell her why you trust the Catholic Church to compile scripture and declare it closed...then turn around and demonize the Church.

Tell her why you lie about the Catholic Church. Tell why you can't mention a single original Christian that you claim was killed by a nameless emperor who you claimed formed Catholicism but cannot provide the date it was formed and the date the corticosteroids, orthodox etc were formed because you know you lied in saying they existed before the Catholic Church.

Tell her why you criticize religion and rituals and recitals, when Jesus and the apostles did these things. Heaven is full of recitals and incense and rituals etc.

By the time you can provide her these answers, she should swiftly fly to your mode of worship.

Sacluxpaint:


Oga I replied her post as catholics having the largest denomination of followers. My point is that being so many doesn't mean right.

No vex. Na just simple question I ask. The same applies to Christianity. I agree.

Sacluxpaint:
I was like you before @speechless. I did everything catholicable ( if there is a word like that) . But I felt trapped and confused, most of the scriptural interpretations of the catholic church didn't make sense. As in for instance, how can you be in bondage of confessing to a priest who might be much more sinful than yourself? Catholics use James 5:16 to justify confession, if thats the case they should confess to me.

Why did Jesus give the apostles power to forgive and retain sins in John20:23?

For fancy? Not to be used?

Sacluxpaint:

Catholics like holding onto 'tradition ' and Jesus clearly told the pharisees that they are putting traditions before God's commandments.

2Thess2:15 So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by our letter.

Your 'Holy Spirit' is definitely different from that of St. Paul and Catholics.

Sacluxpaint:


Speechless3, Jesús loves you. Accept him as your personal lord and saviour before it's too late, and he would definitely give you the holy spirit. And if you are confused, ask(according to James 1:5).

I did the above in the Catholic Church long ago. Those Catholics who haven't deepened their relationship with Jesus are free and encouraged to do so everyday.

Sacluxpaint:


Ever since I left the catholic Church, my faith became stronger. I feel free, I am no longer under any confession bondage to a priest, no more virgin Mary ritual and hope for purgatory. Jesus is Lord.

That's how many teenagers feel free when they get old enough to do things without consulting their parents. They see the consultation as bandage too.

Until they get into deep trouble, then they run home to their parents, just like the prodigal son.

Catholic Church never taught you to aspire or hope for purgatory...or do you want to start lying like superior1?

italo:


You've made zero point as usual. You have nothing to back up your lies and error.

Since speechless3 is your attraction, tell her why you say we don't need the Church, when Jesus thinks we need the Church.

Tell her why you say we don't need intermediaries when Jesus gave us intermediaries.

Tell us why the Biblical Church and it's leaders and members could be physically located but yours is like an invisible secret society that has no leaders on earth, no hierarchy, no history, no doctrine, no basis, no origin, nothing!

Tell her why you trust the Catholic Church to compile scripture and declare it closed...then turn around and demonize the Church.

Tell her why you lie about the Catholic Church. Tell why you can't mention a single original Christian that you claim was killed by a nameless emperor who you claimed formed Catholicism but cannot provide the date it was formed and the date the corticosteroids, orthodox etc were formed because you know you lied in saying they existed before the Catholic Church.

Tell her why you criticize religion and rituals and recitals, when Jesus and the apostles did these things. Heaven is full of recitals and incense and rituals etc.

By the time you can provide her these answers, she should swiftly fly to your mode of worship.

Why are you scared if @Speechless3 approached her heavenly Father without intermediary in prayers, He will answer and respond to her?, why are you afraid if she study the bible diligently, she would come to the knowledge of what her saviour wants from her?

italo:


I haven't said anything about heaven. To know what the Church teaches about salvation outside the Catholic Church, read CCC 846-848. Stop making harsh comments out of ignorance.

I know that you're not insinuating that all Catholic pretend to be celibate, then defile young girls... and that Protestants and other non-Catholics don't pretend to be celibate, then defile young girls. That would be...an unreasonable statement at best.

Many. They even help non-Catholics in need. I'm a member of Society of St. Vincent de Paul and what we do all year round is help the poor regardless of religion.

Every Catholic is a minister of some sort. Ask yourself how many people you stand by in their time of pain. It's useless to point fingers. The Church is both laity and clergy.



Those 'men of God...' are they without sins? do you know their sins?

Christ never promised that his Church ministers will be sinless. He never promised that every member of his Church will be better in character than every person outside his Church.

He said:

Matt16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

John20:23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

Luke 10:16 He who hears you hears Me, he who rejects you rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me.”

Matt28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Whether the Church leaders sin or not.

Let me add this bonus: Christianity includes your relationship with the Church.

Matt18:17 If the member refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if the offender refuses to listen even to the church, let such a one be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

There is no need for all these long sermon my dear. You listen to many talks, but you work with the one you feel its ok for you. I mean Life is all about choices. Am not sure you have defended the Catholic church as much as I have done but I have come to understand a lot of things.... May God help us all to serve him TRULY and to be happy with him forever in the Next as it is the reason why God made us according to the Catholic catechism.

2016 of all those prophesying and declaring all sorts no one has said 2016 is a year of justice ?God is a God of justice at all time and humanbeigns hate justice of God of justice and refuse to declare it all the while and thats why we need all inclusive justice prayer in 2016 &no exception#those using name of Jesus to deceve people and make money must all die in 2016 IJN Amen every Evil pastor or prophet must die every Evil father and mother must die every Evil land lord and land lady must die every Evil neighbours and Evil villagers must die in 2016 and Evil people must die for things to be good and for justice to reign in 2016 many humanbeigns especially BORNAGAINS pretend to be good In The day and at NIGHT they turn to Evil devil but not to us with the UNBELEIVABLE LIGHT and POWER AND MANTLE of REAL JESUSCHRIST#All things will be possible when the right prayers of justice are prayed we Call it all inclusive prayers of justice if JesusChrist said come all ye he didn't make demarcation its all ye so no body was called differently AS TO CLAIM SUPPERUOR OVER OTHERS EXCEPT THE LIGHT AND MANTLE IS WITH YOU.You must be wise for you to escape the judgement of real JesusChrist that has come upon the earth and beyond and no humanbeign can challenge what we have spoken to the EARTH and beyond.who can battle with the GOD of justice and he that made the SPIRITUAL laws?

Sunglass20:



There is no need for all these long sermon my dear. You listen to many talks, but you work with the one you feel its ok for you. I mean Life is all about choices.

I work with the one I feel is okay for God, not the one I feel is okay for me.

Christian life is about God's choices, not ours.

God has given us one Church...with one Church hierarchy and one faith, one doctrine. I will stick with it whether I feel good or not. Jesus didn't feel good about his passion and death. He sweated blood just thinking about it. But he did God's choice.

Sunglass20:



Am not sure you have defended the Catholic church as much as I have done but I have come to understand a lot of things....

I only told you the truth...I didn't defend anything.

Sunglass20:



May God help us all to serve him TRULY and to be happy with him forever in the Next as it is the reason why God made us according to the Catholic catechism.

Amen.

superior1:


Why are you scared if @Speechless3 approached her heavenly Father without intermediary in prayers, He will answer and respond to her?, why are you afraid if she study the bible diligently, she would come to the knowledge of what her saviour wants from her?

I'm not scared. I'm sure she already does that, just like I do, and you do and the snake eating pastor does...and the pastor calling TB Joshua demonic does...and TB Joshua does. So talking to God directly and reading bible does not guarantee knowledge of truth.

Early Christians never had a Bible and even the bible shows that Jesus made the apostles intermediaries...

So why are you scared to tell her why your religion is opposite to that of Jesus and the apostles.

Why are you scared to give her the info I implored you to give her?

Hahaha!

Sacluxpaint:
Accept him as your personal lord and saviour before it's too late, and he would definitely give you the holy spirit.

How do we know who God has given his Spirit?

John4:11Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12No man has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us. 13By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his own Spirit.

Between you and Mother Teresa, who loved others and therefore had God's Spirit?

Having the Spirit is not by making noise.

italo:


I work with the one I feel is okay for God, not the one I feel is okay for me.

Christian life is about God's choices, not ours.

God has given us one Church...with one Church hierarchy and one faith, one doctrine. I will stick with it whether I feel good or not. Jesus didn't feel good about his passion and death. He sweated blood just thinking about it. But he did God's choice.





I only told you the truth...I didn't defend anything.



Amen.

My dear... you really get time sha. Are you one of the owners of NL?

italo:


I work with the one I feel is okay for God, not the one I feel is okay for me.

Christian life is about God's choices, not ours.

God has given us one Church...with one Church hierarchy and one faith, one doctrine. I will stick with it whether I feel good or not. Jesus didn't feel good about his passion and death. He sweated blood just thinking about it. But he did God's choice.





I only told you the truth...I didn't defend anything.



Amen.

My dear... you really get time sha. Are you one of the owners of NL? I Hope God is taking note of all these time and comments you are sharing here on NL oooo if not....

Sunglass20:



My dear... you really get time sha. Are you one of the owners of NL?

Forget about whether I have time or own nairaland or not. That's none of your business.

Focus on the truth I'm telling you.

italo:


Forget about whether I have time or own nairaland or not. That's none of your business.

Focus on the truth I'm telling you.

I ve told u to leave this matter,no need educating people who are have a certain mind set,u re nt goin to change that evidently.....(u ve nothing to prove).they do christmas and easter some strtd holy comunion service afta first condemning it, and even read d bible that was first presented/put together by the church they condemn.i wld rather listen to a muslim or an atheists arguments......that i cld understand....Jst serve ur God and dnt condemn others.

dukum:


I ve told u to leave this matter,no need educating people who are have a certain mind set,u re nt goin to change that evidently.....(u ve nothing to prove).they do christmas and easter some strtd holy comunion service afta first condemning it, and even read d bible that was first presented/put together by the church they condemn.i wld rather listen to a muslim or an atheists arguments......that i cld understand....Jst serve ur God and dnt condemn others.

Na true you talk.

plaetton:
My advice is that once you leave the Catholic church to seek religious meaning elsewhere, you will never find it.
Pentecostalism offers you candies and Titilates your basest human natures, your needs, your base desires, your fears.

Thereafter, you will begin to equate spiritual growth with personal accumulation.

I have not seen anyone, and there are many, who have left the Catholic, Methodist or Anglican churches, for spiritual greener pastures show or display any mental or social improvement in their lives.

For most, it just like jumping from frying pan to fire, or from liberating yourself from one form of mental slavery to a more pernicious one.

What you , like many others, suffer is a crisis of meaning.

The bottom line is ; if you haven't found meaning in one religion or sect, you will not find it in any .

Try philosophy.

BLIND STORY

italo:


Forget about whether I have time or own nairaland or not. That's none of your business.

Focus on the truth I'm telling you.

Eeyaaa.....

italo:



Why did Jesus give the apostles power to forgive and retain sins in John20:23?

For fancy? Not to be used?



2Thess2:15 So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by our letter.

Your 'Holy Spirit' is definitely different from that of St. Paul and Catholics.



I did the above in the Catholic Church long ago. Those Catholics who haven't deepened their relationship with Jesus are free and encouraged to do so everyday.



That's how many teenagers feel free when they get old enough to do things without consulting their parents. They see the consultation as bandage too.

Until they get into deep trouble, then they run home to their parents, just like the prodigal son.

Catholic Church never taught you to aspire or hope for purgatory...or do you want to start lying like superior1?

Oga I can't reply to all the places you quoted and mentioned, but at the last paragraph, I will ask you this, do you believe in purgatory? If you do, no further argument. My case has been proven. Keep swallowing all you get from the Roman Vatican. The word of God remains truth and sharp like a two edged sword. Take it or leave it.

@italo I can't go back to my vomit(catholicism) Christ Jesus has set me free from the bondage of Rome. Twisting scripture to fit into your traditions is pure heresy. Why should I be member of a church whose origin was rooted into paganism, hence the imagery and statues you see in every nook and cranny of the church. Please read the bible more without sentiment and forget what you are hearing from Rome.