haywhy911:
As for the first verse,There's something called Jizyah in Muslim states or countries. It's a form of tax 'unbelievers' pay to ensure their security and freedom of religion. These are civil laws. For instance,I can't just move to America and expect to enjoy equal privileges of an American. So people who don't pay this tax face a penalty. Ever heard of tax evasion?


As for the second verse,it's stated clearly in the Qur'an that God has no 'begotten' son(s). Very blasphemous. That verse has nothing to do with ISIS. Where is the ISIS relation? Please,I'll advice u don't just browse the net for these things. I thought you had done background check. Do you even have a Qur'an? Don't just feed on abrogated verses from the internet. If you have a qur'an,check 2:190-193. Still waiting for the verses that support ISIS

true2god:
I will not insult you by saying you are evil and stupid. Why must you charge me jizya because I do not believe in your pedofile prophet? Is Islam a religion or a race? My religious affiliation is by choice and not hereditary which means I can live in Nigeria and chose to be a Christian or a Muslim. If I choose to be a Christian in sokoto state, the seat of the caliphate in Nigeria, do you mean I will have to pay jizya to the sokoto caliphate so that Islamic touts or vigilantes will not attack me? Why must I pay a government for my security, in a Muslim dominated territory, while Muslim do not pay the same security tax? This further exposes Islam as a religion from demons.

Why don't Hindus charge Muslims jizya in India? Why don't bhudist charge Muslims jizya in China? Why don't Christian charge Muslims jizya in Europe? Why don't shintos charge Muslims jizya in Japan? My friend, islam-a-bad and rotten to the core. Islam is evil without redemption because their evil is codified in a document called the Koran. Do Muslims/Arabs have human conscious at all?

true2god:
[s]I will not insult you by saying you are evil and stupid. Why must you charge me jizya because I do not believe in your pedofile prophet? Is Islam a religion or a race? My religious affiliation is by choice and not hereditary which means I can live in Nigeria and chose to be a Christian or a Muslim. If I choose to be a Christian in sokoto state, the seat of the caliphate in Nigeria, do you mean I will have to pay jizya to the sokoto caliphate so that Islamic touts or vigilantes will not attack me? Why must I pay a government for my security, in a Muslim dominated territory, while Muslim do not pay the same security tax? This further exposes Islam as a religion from demons.

Why don't Hindus charge Muslims jizya in India? Why don't bhudist charge Muslims jizya in China? Why don't Christian charge Muslims jizya in Europe? Why don't shintos charge Muslims jizya in Japan? My friend, islam-a-bad and rotten to the core. Islam is evil without redemption because their evil is codified in a document called the Koran. Do Muslims/Arabs have human conscious at all?[/s]

haywhy911:
you actually insulted me :\... Jizyah is a civil tax. Obviously,the world wasn't run the way it is now... The world was run based on religion and religious leaders where at the helm... I really don't know why you can't understand this... Sokoto is not an independent muslim Caliphate. It's under Nigeria and it's constitution. Mecca,then,was purely an Islamic state.. When did Europe become a christain owned continent? Perhaps,you haven't heard of Turkey. And for ur info,muslims are banned from performing religious obligations in China... So please

haywhy911:
GO AND SLEEP. You need adequate rest.. Was expecting you to be more objective and civil. Turns out you don't know anything about Islam,yet u were making stupid claims.... I don't like IDIOTS. Please,don't mention me again..

haywhy911:
you said SAHIH hadiths,didn't you? Is this a hadith? What's is sahih hadith? Where did you get this from? Even a 4yr old muslim would tell that's not what a hadith looks like. Please! You've shot yourself in the foot.

haywhy911:
Well,have your say...

haywhy911:
you dissapointed me,big time! I thought you knew about Islam before making those claims. Morally,it's not nice to use bad words. It's even worse when you say bad words about things you've got no idea about. Anyway,lemme explain to you.

There are CIRCUMSTANCES OF REVELATION in Islam. Those circumstances must be understood else verses would be misinterpreted. Some verses are specifically for an event. In the early years,the first muslims were persecuted and sent outta Mecca by the unbelievers (mostly idol worshippers). Their properties seized.[INJUSTICE]. The muslims were commanded to fight for their land...[JUSTICE]. And were also commanded to cease fighting when the oppressors cease. [MERCY].. Please,let's not be blinded by sentiments. Be objective. I'm not forcing you to accept Islam. I'm helping you see through the fabrics covering your eye. So far,I have seen nothing supporting ISIS

true2god:
I am sorry, I never knew you were prefect Mohammed (peace be upon me).

You said the world was not run they way it is now, so are you telling me that allahh no longer want Muslims to collect jizya from us 'infidels'? How is the world run now, especially in Muslim nations? You said sokoto is not in independent Muslim caliphate, are Muslim expected to live under the law of the kafir or under the caliphate? What's stopping sokoto from declaring the caliphate? We non-muslims will happily wish the sokoto caliphate declare indepent from Nigeria so that Muslims in the caliphate can have a better life under islamic Shari'a.

Christianty was used to be the religion of the state in Europe and even now Christianity is still the unofficial religion in many part of Europe, except Turkey. I don't know if you have heard of the separation of the church and state (not mosque and state), in Europe and the US. I don't know if you have heard of the church of England (the british official or state church) because I never heard of the mosque of England yet.

As for China banning Islam , it is a good news and I want more countries to follow. Saudi arabia , the home of prefect Mohammed, banned the Jews and the Christians from entering Mecca for over 1400 years and the ban is still effective till date. So Mohammed is evil racist for banning people from entering certain part of the earth.

malvisguy212:
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59,
Number 377:
Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah: On the
day of the battle of Uhud, a man
came to the Prophet and said, “Can
you tell me where I will be if I should
get martyred?” The Prophet replied,
“In Paradise.” The man threw away
some dates he was carrying in his
hand, and FOUGHT TILL HE WAS MARTYRED.

haywhy911:
you actually insulted me :\... Jizyah is a civil tax. Obviously,the world wasn't run the way it is now... The world was run based on religion and religious leaders where at the helm... I really don't know why you can't understand this... Sokoto is not an independent muslim Caliphate. It's under Nigeria and it's constitution. Mecca,then,was purely an Islamic state.. When did Europe become a christain owned continent? Perhaps,you haven't heard of Turkey. And for ur info,muslims are banned from performing religious obligations in parts of China... So please

Annunaki:


[b]And what if I mention you, will you send your terrorists brothers after me [/b]Your dishonesty is really very appalling and irritating. The truth about islam and mohamed being the inspiration for terrorism is so glaring from the quoran and hadiths yet rodents like you like to insult our intelligence by twisting the facts and try making islam appear as the victim. You are really very pathetic and nauseating.

haywhy911:
please,what's wrong with martyrdom? It is celebrated everywhere. Especially when it's for the right cause.. Nigerian soldies go for peacekeeping. Those that are killed are forever 'immortalised'. When did fighting for your right become evil.. Martydom and suicide is like garri and cornflakes.

malvisguy212:
you lied my friend, their were NO army matching against the muslims when this verse were revealed, the muslims were not under persecution. the Meccans were quite content with leaving Muhammad alone following his eviction (even though he had made a pledge of war against them). Common sense will tell you that you do not need revelation from allah when you are under attack, quran 2:191-193 are revealed to fight the meccan , infact it was the muslims who draw the first blood:

Allah's Apostle entered Mecca in the
year of its Conquest wearing an
Arabian helmet on his head and
when the Prophet took it off, a
person came and said, "Ibn Khatal is
holding the covering of the Ka'ba
(taking refuge in the Ka'ba)." The
Prophet said, "KILL HIM." (Bukhari
29:72, Muslim 7:3145)

"The Prophet entered Mecca and (at
that time) there were three hundred
and sixty idols around the Ka'ba. He
started STABBING THE IDOLS WITH STICK he had in his hand and reciting:
"Truth (Islam) has come and Falsehood (disbelief) has vanished." (Bukhari 43:658)

The reason why islam spread was because the meccan were tolerance and peaceful,muhammed spread islam with the help of his armies and force, first muhammed claims to be tolerance just to gain large armies , the satanic verse was a plan to win the pagan, after that he enjoyed large armies to spread islam.

Demmzy15:
My brother haywhy911 thank you for shutting this bigots, they're just empty barrel with nothing credible. Most of them very useless and very disrespectful(Annunaki, true2god),please don't let them explore you.

haywhy911:
thanks bro. I'm getting tired sef. Even though true2god is disrespectful,he is bringing points. I don't understand what the other guy is saying sef. Jumu'at mubarak

malvisguy212:
the Islamic view of martyrdom is ultimate deception. you don't fight and kill and be killed then call it martyr ,NO. Marty is when you REFUSED to deny your faith at the POINT of death.

Annunaki:


How will you understand when you have been thoroughly brainwashed from birth

malvisguy212:
you need to set down and think again, if the verse was for tax, why did it command the muslims to fight the Jews and christians? ONE thing for sure, the Jews and christians are not planning to attack the muslims.

Allah prohibited the polytheist from entering the sacred Mosque in Mecca. This mean a loose of trade, the muslims fear poverty,the solution was to Attack the Jews and Christians and let them compensate for the loss of trade. This is made clear in Surah 9:28 (the verse preceding Surah 9:29). We will have to read both verses together to understand the clear message of these
verses.

Surah 9:28-29: O ye who believe!Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you , if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-knowing, All-wise. Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger,nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with
willing submission and feel themselves subdued.

It is all about money. The Tafsir by Ibn
Kathir clarifies the Historical Context
for Allah’s purpose in revealing Surah
9:28-29.
Ibn Kathir, The Battles of the Prophet,
pp. 183-4: Allah, Most High, ordered the
believers to prohibit the disbelievers from entering or coming near the sacred Mosque. On that, Quraish thought that this would reduce their profits from
trade. Therefore, Allah, Most High,
compensated them and ordered
them to fight the people of the
Book until they embrace Islam or
pay the Jizyah. Allah says, “O ye who
believe! Truly the pagans are
unclean; so let them not, after this
year of theirs, approach the sacred
Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon
will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out
of His bounty, for Allah is All- Knowing, All-Wise. Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day,nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” (Surah 9:28-29) Therefore, the Messenger of Allah decided to fight the Romans in order to call them to Islam.

“Therefore, the Messenger of Allah
decided to fight the Romans .” The
Romans were Christians. “The Messenger of Allah decided to fight
the Romans” not because the Romans
were attacking or planning to attack the
Muslims but because of Allah’s command in Surah 9:29. It was a unilateral attack by the Muslims because of Allah’s solution for their impending poverty.

haywhy911:
bro,when Islam first surfaced in Mecca,adherents of the faith no even reach ten. When it started growing steadily,Makkans got unsettled and started persecuting. The muslims had to run away....and after years on the run,they settled in Madinah. The Makkans,scared that the number of Muslims could grow planned an offensive. Over a thousand well 'horsed' and armed attacked a paltry 300 muslims (if I'm not mistaken) in the Battle of Badr. The Makkans lost. They were infuriated so they attacked a SECOND TIME. That was the Battle of Uhud. The Makkans won this time. To end the job,they planned to attack Medinah. The prophet ordered a ditch to be dug round Medina to prevent the Makkans from getting in. The idea was 4rm one of hz Persian companion (dictator? Racist?). There was no bloodshed in that. Years later the Muslims signed a 10 year treaty with the Meccans to allow them make pilgrimage. That's the treaty of Hudaibiyah... The muslims were allowed to stay on the outskirts of Mecca. The Meccans destroyed the treaty by attacking the Muslims yet again... I can't type long abeg. The Conquest of Mecca was bloodless. Please know your facts

haywhy911:
Whaaat!!! The prophet of Allah attacked Rome? Who fed you that? Please re-check. The prophet NEVER led a fight against Rome.. Always confirm your facts please..

haywhy911:
a martyr is one who willingly accepts being put to death for adhering openly to one's religious belief... Na dictionary I copy this one o

haywhy911:
you're indirectly insulting me by insulting my belief.


I think you're civilised. Jizyah has been scrapped! You heard that right...why? Cos the world has changed. There's a now a different outlook to what is civil laws are.. You can google that.


I swear,I don't understand the emboldened. How can they get out when they are not independent? You want them to do a Biafra? Islam enjoins us to obey set laws. In Nigeria,the constitution is supreme. NIGERIA IS INDIVISIBLE. How can we obey God when we can't even obey earthly rules.


Last time I checked,Spain and France had heavy Islamic ties till the muslims WERE SENT OUT. There are many atheists and Jews out there in Europe.. More than you imagine. I have never heard of a Christian republic.

Saudi is an Islamic republic. Fulfill their conditions and you're welcome. You don't like the Jizyah payment yet you enjoy the Chinese ban. Talk about hypocrisy. Tsk tsk.

malvisguy212:
truthman2013 aka rilwayne001 say they are romans , do you want me to dig the thread out ?

haywhy911:
bro,that's not it. Don't dig out erroneous threads.. Dig out the facts. Is it a fact that Prophet Muhammad attacked Rome?

malvisguy212:

When Muslims arrived at Tabuk, they
halted and took a rest, rumours of a
Roman Byzantine Invasion had cooled
down, and there was nothing to threaten
Muhammad. Muhammad dispatched
Khalid ibn Walid on a military expedition
to Duma.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tabouk

haywhy911:
and Duma is now the modern day Rome? Did you even read it in full? Did the Prophet attack Rome? They went back attacking no one in Tabouk. Did you even read those letters.

haywhy911:
To true2god.

The 9:29 is clear.. Fight the unbelievers who fail to to pay Jizyah... And what's Jizyah? A tax paid by non muslims under the protection of muslims.. Failure to pay is a crime because it's a law.

The 9:30 is a different ball game. Different from the topic.. It has to do with supremacy of faith... That's not something I will argue because my attempts will be futile. And besides,the Qur'an states [109:6] "to you be your religion and to me my religion".

Thirdly,Prophet Muhammad didn't write a single word in the Qur'an. He was unlettered... The Qur'an is strictly Allah Almighty's.. I don't want us to deviate from the topic.


True2god,I like it when people stick to topics. This is not an interfaith debate. That's why all my points have been 'channeled through a muslim channel'.. [if you understand what I mean]. I'm not telling you to believe in Islam. I'm telling you that Muslims aren't terrorists as alleged and that NO VERSE supports terrorist acts. Simple!

malvisguy212:
Consider carefully the laws that God gave to the ancient nation of Israel. Notice how the laws that he gave reveals his loving concern for the foreigners. The Israelites were commanded to love them. Please read
the following verses carefully:

Leviticus 19:33-34: And in case a
foreign resident resides with you as
an alien in your land, you must not
mistreat him. The foreign resident
who resides as an alien with you
should become to you like a native of
yours; and you must love him as
yourself, for you became foreign
residents in the land of Egypt. I am
Jehovah your God.

Unlike Allah, the true God did not command the Israelites to attack or extort the foreigners, instead he commanded the Israelites to love and provide for them. These are the hallmarks of a true Creator.