Henry240:


- Claims doesn't equal fact

- corruption allegations in Nigeria, yes, however until proven in court, they are mere allegations, not fact.

- the Nigerian military is better equipped now than it was a few years back, there are literally thousands of images here to prove.

Media trial doesn't equal fact either.


- Wrong, the Richest countries with the big defence budgets are in North-Africa

do you want to tell us your not africa richest country ,how much was your defence spending last year?

Henry240:


Why don't you tell us what you attribute the Iraqi crash to?


Planes left in long-term storage would need an overhaul it is basic best practices. So, should i equate that to corruption?

it was a technical fault,which can happen.when we bought those planes we didn't buy planes in storage and for what we paid for them ,we were short changed

kenya and british soldiers in archers post

africaken:
do you want to tell us your not africa richest country ,how much was your defence spending last year?

Nigeria is the richest country in Africa, however, it doesn't translate to the Nigerian government been the richest in Africa. Algeria spent over $10 billion in Defence, Egypt probably more, Morroco also spends a lot on Defence.



$5.7 billion

africaken:
it was a technical fault,which can happen.when we bought those planes we didn't buy planes in storage and for what we paid for them ,we were short changed

So in the case of the Americans losing a brand new plane, it's technical fault.

However when it's the KAF (Africans) second hand F-5, it is corruption.

You see, you(and millions more like you) are the major problem we are having in africa. This narrative that everything boils down solely to corruption has severely destroyed institutions.



Okay... How were you shortchanged, were you able to read through the agreement signed and the terms relating to the transfer of equipment from the JAF to KAF?

Henry240:


Nigeria is the richest country in Africa, however, it doesn't translate to the Nigerian government been the richest in Africa. Algeria spent over $10 billion in Defence, Egypt probably more, Morroco also spends a lot on Defence.



$5.7 billion

you didn't answer me .how much did you spend last year ?

africaken:
do you want to tell us your not africa richest country ,how much was your defence spending last year?

We dont know how much, all we know is they keep buying equipments and several personnel going on training. Am sure same will happen this year too. We have been exceeding our budget since 2013 just that we loss a lot to corrupt leaders. The latest is $2.1 billion dollars arms deal that was shared by the national security adviser last year. Although it is still under investigation and the case is just getting to court.

africaken:
you didn't answer me .how much did you spend last year ?

The answer is there, $5.7 billion.

Henry240:


So in the case of the Americans losing a brand new plane, it's technical fault.

However when it's the KAF (Africans) second hand F-5, it is corruption.

You see, you(and millions more like you) are the major problem we are having in africa. This narrative that everything boils down solely to corruption has severely destroyed institutions.



Okay... How were you shortchanged, were you able to read through the agreement signed and the terms relating to the transfer of equipment from the JAF to KAF?

this was a big case which was well published in our local media,so i am more knowledgeable about the issue than you.because if i could ask you which year was that ,i dont think you would know

africaken:
this was a big case which was well published in our local media,so i am more knowledgeable about the issue than you.because if i could ask you which year was that ,i dont think you would know

That's why i asked you to show me how you were shortchanged.

Henry240:


The answer is there, $5.7 billion.

and then you went and bought soviet era T-72 tanks !

Henry240:


That's why i asked you to show me how you were shortchanged.

Parliament's pressure on the Executive is likely to increase as the Defence and Foreign Affairs Committee that brought a damning report on Moses Wetangula prepares to turn the spotlight on the Ministry of Defence over Air Force jets acquired from Jordan and whose airworthiness is in doubt. The report by the committee chaired by Adan Keynan led to the stepping aside of Foreign Affairs Minister and his PS Thuita Mwangi last week. The Department of Defence would once again be called upon to respond to a stink following damning revelations the 15 fighter jets the Kenya Air-Force (KAF) acquired from Jordan this year were substandard. Parliament this week flexed its muscles, following the passage of the new Constitution. On Thursday, the Committee on Legal and Justice Affairs gave the Truth Justice and Reconciliation Commission (TJRC) 72 hours to either shape up or ship out over its credibility crisis, prompting Chief Justice Evan Gicheru to appoint a tribunal to probe its chairman Bethuel Kiplagat.
Read more at: http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/business/article/2000021374/kenya-s-new-fighter-jets-cannot-take-off?articleID=2000021374&story_title=kenya-s-new-fighter-jets-cannot-take-off&pageNo=1

africaken:
suicide vehicle improvised explosive device,suicide bombers,proliferation of anti tank weaponry and Anti-materiel rifle e.t c

None of which actually changes anything on the tactical or strategic level

Henry240:


Nigeria is the richest country in Africa, however, it doesn't translate to the Nigerian government been the richest in Africa. Algeria spent over $10 billion in Defence, Egypt probably more, Morroco also spends a lot on Defence.



$5.7 billion

You spent nowhere near that

Your entire military budget for this year is $1,6 billion

Last year James put it at a simular figure

africaken:
and then you went and bought soviet era T-72 tanks !

how much of that money is meant for Recurrent Expenditure and how much is for Capital expenditure?


Once you are through figuring that out,


Let's look at what Nigeria bought in 2015.

6x MI-35m Helicopters - Russia

12x MI-17 terminator Helicopters - Russia

2x MI-24V helicopters - Ukraine

2x MI-17 Helicopters- Ukraine

14x T-72AV - Ukraine

Kraz Heavy duty trucks- Ukraine

Unknown number of BTR-4E - Ukraine

5x CH-3A Drones - China

30x AR-1 missiles - China

Bombs, Missiles, Incendiary, Ammo Air crafts Ammo- Pakistan

Unconfirmed number of T-72 Tanks - Czech Republic

Unknown number of BMP- 1- Czech Republic

Continued delivery of 120 Big-Foot MRAPs - China

Over 60 REVA MRAPs - South-Africa

Continued delivery of IGIRIGI APC - Nigeria

RM-70 MRLS system - Czech Republic

South-African military trucks - South-Africa

23mm cannons and Ammo - South-Africa

Gazelle Helicopters and other LUHs - possibly (France or Serbia)

5,000 Beryl rifle - Poland

Training of special forces, plus equipment/ Kits - Belarus and Russia

Additional Tavor rifles for Air force - Israel

3 Beechcraft Kingair 350e1 Planes - USA

4 Attrition replacement Alpa-Jets - USA

3 Surveillance Planes - Czech republic

Unknown number of Streit Warrior APC - Canada

Unknown Inkas APC - Canada

Streit Spartan APC - Canada

Patchesagain:


None of which actually changes anything on the tactical or strategic level

please expound,too vague

Patchesagain:


You spent nowhere near that

Your entire military budget for this year is $1,6 billion

Last year James put it at a simular figure

You always believe nonsense. Even the amount we accused dasuki of stealing is more than what your source quoted. Dasuki was accused of stealing $2.1 billion.

iblawi:


You always believe nonsense. Even the amount we accused dasuki of stealing is more than what your source quoted. Dasuki was accused of stealing $2.1 billion.

Please ignore Patchesagain, he wishes to remain ignorant is his decision.

africaken:
Parliament's pressure on the Executive is likely to increase as the Defence and Foreign Affairs Committee that brought a damning report on Moses Wetangula prepares to turn the spotlight on the Ministry of Defence over Air Force jets acquired from Jordan and whose airworthiness is in doubt. The report by the committee chaired by Adan Keynan led to the stepping aside of Foreign Affairs Minister and his PS Thuita Mwangi last week. The Department of Defence would once again be called upon to respond to a stink following damning revelations the 15 fighter jets the Kenya Air-Force (KAF) acquired from Jordan this year were substandard. Parliament this week flexed its muscles, following the passage of the new Constitution. On Thursday, the Committee on Legal and Justice Affairs gave the Truth Justice and Reconciliation Commission (TJRC) 72 hours to either shape up or ship out over its credibility crisis, prompting Chief Justice Evan Gicheru to appoint a tribunal to probe its chairman Bethuel Kiplagat.
Read more at: http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/business/article/2000021374/kenya-s-new-fighter-jets-cannot-take-off?articleID=2000021374&story_title=kenya-s-new-fighter-jets-cannot-take-off&pageNo=1

My point exactly, more allegations and media sensationalism.


Did they present any shred of evidence to support their claim that the F-4's aren't air-worthy, aren't the F-4s the same aircrafts that are used routinely in somalia?

A source said this, a source said that =/= evidence.

iblawi:


You always believe nonsense. Even the amount we accused dasuki of stealing is more than what your source quoted. Dasuki was accused of stealing $2.1 billion.

Your budget is outlined in the article that discusses the acquisition of the JF-17

It's $1,6 billion

And Dasuki has been charged with stealing $1 million
http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKKBN0UJ24Y20160105?irpc=932

Henry240:


Please ignore Patchesagain, he wishes to remain ignorant is his decision.

So the article listing the acquisition of the JF-17 as well as James are both wrong?

Because that's where I get myinfo from

Patchesagain:



Your budget is outlined in the article that discusses the acquisition of the JF-17

It's $1,6 billion

And Dasuki has been charged with stealing $1 million
http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKKBN0UJ24Y20160105?irpc=932

So Dasuki is the Defence minister?


You see how ignorant you willfully choose to be?

Patchesagain:


So the article listing the acquisition of the JF-17 as well as James are both wrong?

Because that's where I get myinfo from

So why is Dasuki currently been investigated for $2.1 billion arms procurement fraud?

Henry240:


My point exactly, more allegations and media sensationalism.


Did they present any shred of evidence to support their claim that the F-4's aren't air-worthy, aren't the F-4s the same aircrafts that are used routinely in somalia?

A source said this, a source said that =/= evidence.

did you read they were force to cannibalise F-5 already in Kenya's inventory,technical officers were complaining.this issue was raise by politicians initially but members of kenya air force,why am i arguing something you have no slightest clue about !

africaken:
did you read they were force to cannibalise F-5 already in Kenya's inventory,technical officers were complaining.this issue was raise by politicians initially but members of kenya air force,why am i arguing something you have no slightest clue about !

"Our inquiries on the jets revealed that the aircraft cannot
fly but the issue has been hushed up in the military."


So they miraculously fixed the aircrafts that cannot(affirming) fly!


Is this what you are now saying?

Patchesagain:



Your budget is outlined in the article that discusses the acquisition of the JF-17

It's $1,6 billion

And Dasuki has been charged with stealing $1 million
http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKKBN0UJ24Y20160105?irpc=932

Am sorry for you. You always read trash.


"ABUJA (Reuters) - Nigeria's former defence minister has been charged with money laundering and criminal breach of trust over 300 million naira ($1 million pounds) intended for defence spending, the financial crimes agency said on Tuesday."


Even you link said $2 billion dollars

"He was arrested on Dec. 1 in relation to an investigation into a $2 billion arms deal."

Henry240:


"Our inquiries on the jets revealed that the aircraft cannot
fly but the issue has been hushed up in the military."


So they miraculously fixed the aircrafts that cannot(affirming) fly!


Is this what you are now saying?

we didn't buy those F-5's for spare part but to compliment our already inventory of F-5's ,do you know actual how many F-5's we have already !

africaken:
we didn't buy those F-5's for spare part but to compliment our already inventory of F-5's ,do you know actual how many F-5's we have already !

Are you saying all those F-5s bought from JAF in 2010 which "cannot" fly did not enter operational service, and have still not seen action in the KAF?

Iblawi1:




Am sorry for you. You always read trash.


"ABUJA (Reuters) - Nigeria's former defence minister has been charged with money laundering and criminal breach of trust over 300 million naira ($1 million pounds) intended for defence spending, the financial crimes agency said on Tuesday."


Even you link said $2 billion dollars

"He was arrested on Dec. 1 in relation to an investigation into a $2 billion arms deal."

Yes, the deal was 2 billion, so Henry is wrong when he says 5 billion was spent

africaken:
we didn't buy those F-5's for spare part but to compliment our already inventory of F-5's ,do you know actual how many F-5's we have already !

Anyway not to digress..... You called Nigeria out, and i have given a comprehensive list of all verifiable equipment Nigeria purchased with what was left of the $5.7 billion.


I'm not saying corruption isn't a problem, but to narrow every problem Africans face to the narrow viewpoint of corruption is absolute nonsense. That's not the problem.

We face capacity issues, hence we buy every jack from abroad. This is a much bigger problem than corruption, Brazil, Mexico, SK etc etc all built massive defence industries despite high levels of corruption. Even colombia

Money is another issue, selling commodities like Oil, Platinum, Gold, minerals et al won't make you rich especially when you have 170 million people to feed!

Patchesagain:


Yes, the deal was 2 billion, so Henry is wrong when he says 5 billion was spent

Defence budget and money for procurement aren't the same thing.


You should at-least apply some common sense.