On the first of January, myself and two other friends decided to start our new year celebration with God and so decided to go to church. One of my two friends is of the Catholic faith while the other attended a new generation church(Day star I think). I personally, am yet to commit to any one faith, though I tend to lean towards Catholicism. Anyway we ended up attended a Catholic church and coincidentally the Catholics were celebrating a feast they called "Mary, mother of God" and the priest who preached decided to preach on the subject quoted above. Right from the start of the homily, my "day star" friend showed his discontent with what the priest was saying. Is reason for discontent was not only the fact that catholics call Mary, mother of God but also the claim by Catholics that Mary was perpetually a virgin and that Mary was born without sin. This soon turned into a full blown discussion when we got home after church. While we were having breakfast and the new year merry was on, my friends argued while I just played the referee. It was for this same reason I have been reluctant to commit to any faith. I didn't want anybody accusing me of blasphemy as they both seem to be accusing themselves. In the heat of this argument a question came up that pricked my reasoning. My protesting friend asked my Catholic friend why the bible will go through what he described as great lengths to mention not only the prophesies of the messiah been born of a virgin but also emphasized the fact that the messiah was indeed born of a virgin but then grow quiet or whisper the perpetual virginity of Mary or her sinless nativity. According to him the bible could have very well gone through great lengths to emphasize these doctrines as well. My Catholic friend did provide his answers which bordered around how impossible it would have been for the bible to contain the level of clarity he expects on every doctrinal differences the Christian community now have and keep the level of clarity it has on doctrines they share in common. He claimed that even if it did, there is no telling if new differences wouldn't come up. He then went on to ask why my protesting friend thinks it was important for Jesus to be born of a virgin. My protesting friend seemed startled by the question and was wondering why a supposed Christian would even ask such a question. I too was surprised by the question. He (the Catholic friend) refused to give any answer to the question and asked us to meditate on it. So I decided to come to the Christian community of nairaland for possible answers. Do you think it was important for Jesus to be born of a virgin? If yes then why?. I have my own theories but would also like to know what other christians think of the question. Answers from both Catholics and protestants are needed please.

Cc vooks, KingEbukaNaija, pastoroluT, olagbaju, ayoku777, Syncan, Ubenedictus, italo, PastorAIO, anas09

I think God used a virgin to bring Jesus into the world because of His high moral standards required from vessels He uses. In those days girls that are found to be non virgin on the wedding night are stoned to death. So virginity is not a choice then, it's a must and virgins were common then. Mary was choosen because of grace and not necessarily because she was more righteous than others. She definitely lived like a married woman with her husband afterwards. Joseph wasn't impotent or gay and probably they had other children as well.
Jesus never gave her any special recognition then. Check this verses:
Luke 11:27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

But if you wanna worship her, there is freedom of belief. Go ahead

A virgin is viewed as pure and without blemish, something uncontaminated. If Jesus was to come to this world he should come through a pure route, the reason is simple, Jesus is without blemish, He is pure, without sin, He is God. Thus a woman who is pure in body and heart needs to serve as a route. So yes, Jesus must come through a pure form, a virgin both at heart and body. But we cannot say Mary was born without sin, she was human and all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, but she was righteous, virtuous and filled with God's grace. my view please

ritzyvic1:
I think God used a virgin to bring Jesus into the world because of His high moral standards required from vessels He uses. In those days girls that are found to be non virgin on the wedding night are stoned to death. So virginity is not a choice then, it's a must and virgins were common then. Mary was choosen because of grace.

Are there other known vessels that required such high standards? Please name them.

Yaksson:
A virgin is viewed as pure and without blemish, something uncontaminated. If Jesus was to come to this world he should come through a pure route, the reason is simple, Jesus is without blemish, He is pure, without sin, He is God. Thus a woman who is pure in body and heart needs to serve as a route. So yes, Jesus must come through a pure form, a virgin both at heart and body. But we cannot say Mary was born without sin, she was human and all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, but she was righteous, virtuous and filled with God's grace. my view please

I don't understand you bro. First you say Jesus was and should come through a pure route then went ahead to say Mary was born with sin. Did she undergo some kind of cleansing after she was born with the said sin before she conceived baby Jesus?

Geist:
On the first of January, myself and two other friends decided to start our new year celebration with God and so decided to go to church. One of my two friends is of the Catholic faith while the other attended a new generation church(Day star I think). I personally, am yet to commit to any one faith, though I tend to lean towards Catholicism. Anyway we ended up attended a Catholic church and coincidentally the Catholics were celebrating a feast they called "Mary, mother of God" and the priest who preached decided to preach on the subject quoted above. Right from the start of the homily, my "day star" friend showed his discontent with what the priest was saying. Is reason for discontent was not only the fact that catholics call Mary, mother of God but also the claim by Catholics that Mary was perpetually a virgin and that Mary was born without sin. This soon turned into a full blown discussion when we got home after church. While we were having breakfast and the new year merry was on, my friends argued while I just played the referee. It was for this same reason I have been reluctant to commit to any faith. I didn't want anybody accusing me of blasphemy as they both seem to be accusing themselves. In the heat of this argument a question came up that pricked my reasoning. My protesting friend asked my Catholic friend why the bible will go through what he described as great lengths to mention not only the prophesies of the messiah been born of a virgin but also emphasized the fact that the messiah was indeed born of a virgin but then grow quiet or whisper the perpetual virginity of Mary or her sinless nativity. According to him the bible could have very well gone through great lengths to emphasize these doctrines as well. My Catholic friend did provide his answers which bordered around how impossible it would have been for the bible to contain the level of clarity he expects on every doctrinal differences the Christian community now have and keep the level of clarity it has on doctrines they share in common. He claimed that even if it did, there is no telling if new differences wouldn't come up. He then went on to ask why my protesting friend thinks it was important for Jesus to be born of a virgin. My protesting friend seemed startled by the question and was wondering why a supposed Christian would even ask such a question. I too was surprised by the question. He (the Catholic friend) refused to give any answer to the question and asked us to meditate on it. So I decided to come to the Christian community of nairaland for possible answers. Do you think it was important for Jesus to be born of a virgin? If yes then why?. I have my own theories but would also like to know what other christians think of the question. Answers from both Catholics and protestants are needed please.

Cc vooks, KingEbukaNaija, pastoroluT, olagbaju, ayoku777, Syncan, Ubenedictus, italo, PastorAIO, anas09

The answer u seek is so simple n direct if only u guys look at the word closely n take it wholistically.

Jesus could only have come through a virgin cos thats d only way the prophecies could be fulfilled. Ok lets go all d way back to the beginning. When Adam sinned n was rebuked with the serpent also, God gave a prophecy of Christ coming.

'I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head and thou shall bruise his heel.

Genesis 3:15

Now any bible student will know the seed being spoken of here is noi other person but Jesus Christ. Note that God said the seed of the woman and not the seed of the man, so if the one to destroy the serpent is the seed of the woman then the seed of the man need nt be joined to the woman.

We all know that the seed of the man is his sperm n d seed of the woman is her egg, so for a baby to come forth the two seeds need to combine. So for the prophecy to be fulfilled Jesus need to be born of d seed of the woman as the Holy Ghost came over the seed of the woman.

Would want to stop here n not go too deep, in conclusion, only a virgin could meet the criteria of Jesus birth n the fulfilment of the prophecy.

Stay blessed and remain rapturable

Geist:
I don't understand you bro. First you say Jesus was and should come through a pure route then went ahead to say Mary was born with sin. Did she undergo some kind of cleansing after she was born with the said sin before she conceived baby Jesus?

The sin in question here was the original sin n not the subsequent sins that came as a result of the original sin

NB Take note of 'sin' in singular n plural

PastorOluT:


The sin in question here was the original sin n not the subsequent sins that came as a result of the original sin

NB Take note of 'sin' in singular n plural

Does that make any difference? The original sin is still supposed to make her impure. Too impure infact to conceive baby Jesus unless she went through some prior clensing before conceiving Jesus.

Geist:
Does that make any difference? The original sin is still supposed to make her impure. Too impure infact to conceive baby Jesus unless she went through some prior clensing before conceiving Jesus.

I guess u just dont want to get it right? Her human purity do not count at all, but d symbol of virginity.

NB A virgin still remains a virgin irrespective, even if she steals her virginity remains intact. Virgin symbolizes purity which was what was/is been considered. Though I personally believed Mary was morally upright, but thats not the point.

Geist:
Does that make any difference? The original sin is still supposed to make her impure. Too impure infact to conceive baby Jesus unless she went through some prior clensing before conceiving Jesus.

sin came into the world through Adam, and through one man ,Jesus the forgiveness of sin will be paid. If Jesus had been born through sexual intercourse, then this curse of adam and Eve will be on Him.

Genesis 3:17
To Adam he said, "Because you listened
to your wife and ate fruit from the tree
about which I commanded you, 'You
must not eat from it,' "Cursed is the
ground because of you; through painful
toil you will eat food from it all the days
of your life.

The bible teaches that All men originated through adam (by blood) , Jesus had to be born of a virgin to make us perfect in God sight. In Genesis 1:27 the bible say we are created in the image of God, this indicate we are gods, but after the fall of man , we lost everything, the Godly nature . To regain this Glory, Jesus had to be born of a virgin, it was God Himself who bestowed His spirit on Jesus. Believing in Jesus makes us sons of God.

Galatians 3:26
for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of
God, through faith.

“You are all sons of God through faith in
Christ Jesus”! Faith in Christ Jesus, to
believe that He is the Son of God, the
anointed One, the Messiah, makes us
children of God,His sons and daughters!
Gospel means good news and these are
really GOOD NEWS! “Believe on the Lord
Jesus Christ and you will be saved”, as
Paul and Silas said to the prison-keeper
in Philippi (Acts 16:31). “You are all sons
of God, through faith in Christ Jesus”.

Geist:
I don't understand you bro. First you say Jesus was and should come through a pure route then went ahead to say Mary was born with sin. Did she undergo some kind of cleansing after she was born with the said sin before she conceived baby Jesus?

being saved from sin is not through staying away from it or through living a righteous life, yes being good and righteous helps, but being saved of sin is purely through the grace of God, God gives this grace to whom he sees actually seeks for repentance, after the death of Christ, the grace can be obtained from believing in Christ death and resurrection as a means of dying in ones sins and raising again a born a gain. mary conceived Christ before his death, but upon her birth she was with sin, for she is human, however God's grace that favors us above sin was with her due to her good and righteous way of life, we can say the sin of Adam in her was forgiven by God, I used pure to signify her virginity, virgins are symbolic for purity.

PastorOluT:


The answer u seek is so simple n direct if only u guys look at the word closely n take it wholistically.

Jesus could only have come through a virgin cos thats d only way the prophecies could be fulfilled. Ok lets go all d way back to the beginning. When Adam sinned n was rebuked with the serpent also, God gave a prophecy of Christ coming.

'I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head and thou shall bruise his heel.

Genesis 3:15

Now any bible student will know the seed being spoken of here is noi other person but Jesus Christ. Note that God said the seed of the woman and not the seed of the man, so if the one to destroy the serpent is the seed of the woman then the seed of the man need nt be joined to the woman.

We all know that the seed of the man is his sperm n d seed of the woman is her egg, so for a baby to come forth the two seeds need to combine. So for the prophecy to be fulfilled Jesus need to be born of d seed of the woman as the Holy Ghost came over the seed of the woman.

Would want to stop here n not go too deep, in conclusion, only a virgin could meet the criteria of Jesus birth n the fulfilment of the prophecy.

Stay blessed and remain rapturable

I'm just seeing this. If you're saying the messiah had to be born just to fulfil the prophecies then that only begs the question. Why was it important for the messiah to be born of a virgin. There had to be a why it was important even before the prophecy was made.

PastorOluT:


I guess u just dont want to get it right? Her human purity do not count at all, but d symbol of virginity.

NB A virgin still remains a virgin irrespective, even if she steals her virginity remains intact. Virgin symbolizes purity which was what was/is been considered. Though I personally believed Mary was morally upright, but thats not the point.

Which one are you saying sef? Please make your position clear. Are you say the importance of the virgin birth was because Jesus been without sin had to come through a clean path or you are saying it was simply to fulfil the prophecy? Are you saying the virgins state of purity didn't matter at all and all that mattered was what are virginity symbolised(which is still purity)? You are not coming out clear with you position.

malvisguy212:
sin came into the world through Adam, and through one man ,Jesus the forgiveness of sin will be paid. If Jesus had been born through sexual intercourse, then this curse of adam and Eve will be on Him.
Genesis 3:17
To Adam he said, "Because you listened
to your wife and ate fruit from the tree
about which I commanded you, 'You
must not eat from it,' "Cursed is the
ground because of you; through painful
toil you will eat food from it all the days
of your life.

The bible teaches that All men originated through adam (by blood) , Jesus had to be born of a virgin to make us perfect in God sight. In Genesis 1:27 the bible say we are created in the image of God, this indicate we are gods, but after the fall of man , we lost everything, the Godly nature . To regain this Glory, Jesus had to be born of a virgin, it was God Himself who bestowed His spirit on Jesus. Believing in Jesus makes us sons of God.

Galatians 3:26
for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of
God, through faith.

“You are all sons of God through faith in
Christ Jesus”! Faith in Christ Jesus, to
believe that He is the Son of God, the
anointed One, the Messiah, makes us
children of God,His sons and daughters!
Gospel means good news and these are
really GOOD NEWS! “Believe on the Lord
Jesus Christ and you will be saved”, as
Paul and Silas said to the prison-keeper
in Philippi (Acts 16:31). “You are all sons
of God, through faith in Christ Jesus”.

I'm sorry the bolded were the only phrases I saw that addressed my question. The first seemed to be along the line of what yaksson was saying. Am I correct? You also seemed to insinuate that it's only when there is a contribution from the male species that original sin is actually inherited. Is this your position?

The second bolded on the other hand I would like you to clarify. How does Jesus been born by a virgin make us perfect in the sight of God? I thought it was his death and resurrection that did that.

Yaksson:
being saved from sin is not through staying away from it or through living a righteous life, yes being good and righteous helps, but being saved of sin is purely through the grace of God, God gives this grace to whom he sees actually seeks for repentance, after the death of Christ, the grace can be obtained from believing in Christ death and resurrection as a means of dying in ones sins and raising again a born a gain. mary conceived Christ before his death, but upon her birth she was with sin, for she is human, however God's grace that favors us above sin was with her due to her good and righteous way of life, we can say the sin of Adam in her was forgiven by God, I used pure to signify her virginity, virgins are symbolic for purity.

With the bolded above. Are you saying after Mary was born with sin. The said sin was forgiven by God due to her righteous way of life, which then made it possible for her to be the clean route Jesus was to pass into this world?

Geist:
With the bolded above. Are you saying after Mary was born with sin. The said sin was forgiven by God due to her righteous way of life, which then made it possible for her to be the clean route Jesus was to pass into this world?

yes, i can say that, but her sin was forgiving due to the grace of God that came as a result of her reverence of him, accepting Him as lord over her life and not just by righteous life, that grace is very important here

Yaksson:
yes, i can say that, but her sin was forgiving due to the grace of God that came as a result of her reverence of him, accepting Him as lord over her life and not just by righteous life, that grace is very important here

Ok, is there any prove that Mary's original sin was forgiven before she conceived Jesus in the bible?

Geist:
On the first of January, myself and two other friends decided to start our new year celebration with God and so decided to go to church. One of my two friends is of the Catholic faith while the other attended a new generation church(Day star I think). I personally, am yet to commit to any one faith, though I tend to lean towards Catholicism. Anyway we ended up attended a Catholic church and coincidentally the Catholics were celebrating a feast they called "Mary, mother of God" and the priest who preached decided to preach on the subject quoted above. Right from the start of the homily, my "day star" friend showed his discontent with what the priest was saying. Is reason for discontent was not only the fact that catholics call Mary, mother of God but also the claim by Catholics that Mary was perpetually a virgin and that Mary was born without sin. This soon turned into a full blown discussion when we got home after church. While we were having breakfast and the new year merry was on, my friends argued while I just played the referee. It was for this same reason I have been reluctant to commit to any faith. I didn't want anybody accusing me of blasphemy as they both seem to be accusing themselves. In the heat of this argument a question came up that pricked my reasoning. My protesting friend asked my Catholic friend why the bible will go through what he described as great lengths to mention not only the prophesies of the messiah been born of a virgin but also emphasized the fact that the messiah was indeed born of a virgin but then grow quiet or whisper the perpetual virginity of Mary or her sinless nativity. According to him the bible could have very well gone through great lengths to emphasize these doctrines as well. My Catholic friend did provide his answers which bordered around how impossible it would have been for the bible to contain the level of clarity he expects on every doctrinal differences the Christian community now have and keep the level of clarity it has on doctrines they share in common. He claimed that even if it did, there is no telling if new differences wouldn't come up. He then went on to ask why my protesting friend thinks it was important for Jesus to be born of a virgin. My protesting friend seemed startled by the question and was wondering why a supposed Christian would even ask such a question. I too was surprised by the question. He (the Catholic friend) refused to give any answer to the question and asked us to meditate on it. So I decided to come to the Christian community of nairaland for possible answers. Do you think it was important for Jesus to be born of a virgin? If yes then why?. I have my own theories but would also like to know what other christians think of the question. Answers from both Catholics and protestants are needed please.

Cc vooks, KingEbukaNaija, pastoroluT, olagbaju, ayoku777, Syncan, Ubenedictus, italo, PastorAIO, Anas09

I believe God wanted the New Ark of the Covenant (which would carry his word in flesh) to be pure, spotless and untouchable...just like (in fact, even purer) than the old Ark of the Covenant (which carried his word on stone).

Now, if Mary was physically a virgin, but spiritually soiled with sin, of what use would her physical virginity be? We all know God looks not upon physical appearance, but upon the heart (as he said when he chose David).

To understand more of the nature of Mary, consider what Angel Gabriel said to her when he appeared: "Chaire, kecharitomene" (in Greek).

“chaire” - Means "hail” or “rejoice”

"charis" – Means “grace”

"charitoo" – Greek verb ending in omicron omega (“oo”) means to put the person or thing into the state indicated by the root. The root being "charis" or “grace,” "charitoo" means “to put into a state of "grace.”

"ke" – Greek perfect tense prefix indicates a perfected, completed present state as a result of past action. Thus, a perfected, completed present state of "charis," or “grace,” as a result of past action.

"mene" – Greek passive participle suffix indicates action performed on subject by another. Thus, a perfected, completed present state of "charis," or “grace,” as a result of the past action of another. As the speaker is the angel Gabriel, the "other" is God.

Therefore, "chaire kecharitomene" means: “Hail, who has been perfectly and completely graced by God.” The common Catholic rendering, "full of grace," while good, may actually fall short!

italo:


I believe God wanted the New Ark of the Covenant (which would carry his word in flesh) to be pure, spotless and untouchable...just like (in fact, even purer) than the old Ark of the Covenant (which carried his word on stone).

Now, if Mary was physically a virgin, but spiritually soiled with sin, of what use would her physical virginity be? We all know God looks not upon physical appearance, but upon the heart (as he said when he chose David).

To understand more of the nature of Mary, consider what Angel Gabriel said to her when he appeared: "Chaire, kecharitomene" (in Greek).

“chaire” - Means "hail” or “rejoice”

"charis" – Means “grace”

"charitoo" – Greek verb ending in omicron omega (“oo”) means to put the person or thing into the state indicated by the root. The root being "charis" or “grace,” "charitoo" means “to put into a state of "grace.”

"ke" – Greek perfect tense prefix indicates a perfected, completed present state as a result of past action. Thus, a perfected, completed present state of "charis," or “grace,” as a result of past action.

"mene" – Greek passive participle suffix indicates action performed on subject by another. Thus, a perfected, completed present state of "charis," or “grace,” as a result of the past action of another. As the speaker is the angel Gabriel, the "other" is God.

Therefore, "chaire kecharitomene" means: “Hail, who has been perfectly and completely graced by God.” The common Catholic rendering, "full of grace," while good, may actually fall short!

The only thing worse than satanism is amateur copy+paste theology.
You do realize the same words used of Mary are used of the body of Christ in Ephesians 1:6?

Geist:
Do you think it was important for Jesus to be born of a virgin? If yes then why?

Cc vooks, KingEbukaNaija, pastoroluT, olagbaju, ayoku777, Syncan, Ubenedictus, italo, PastorAIO, anas09

The interest Mary's virginity is given in the gospels without a doubt makes it clear that it was important. And if it was important, then my thoughts about the importance are secondary. In fact belittling an important aspect of the Christian Faith is antiChrist.

WHY is not an easy question because not everything God does is explained to man and not everything that is explained comprehended by man. There are one too many WHYs one can dig, for instance, WHY did Jesus die for three days? Why not longer or a shorter period? Why was his public ministry ~3.5 yrs? Why was he born in Bethlehem? and so forth.

With that let me try and explain why I think it was important.
1. It was prophesied that He would be born of a virgin in Isaiah 9
The prophecy had to be fulfilled. . When God decrees something and hastens to perform it, we can rightfully conclude it as important.

2. The virgin birth was a miracle, and this among others vindicated the Messiah
With the benefit of hindsight we may ponder what would have been outstanding about Jesus had he been another offspring.

3.The miracle also draws away our attention from his humanity and onto his divinity.
The messiah was certainly more than on offspring of David. Strictly speaking, it took more than the Jews to bring Messiah into the world.

These are my observations, and I must insist that explaining the import of the virgin birth does not add or diminish its importance

vooks:


The only thing worse than satanism is amateur copy+paste theology.
You do realize the same words used of Mary are used of the body of Christ in Ephesians 1:6?

The Greek word "kecharitomene" was never used anywhere in scripture or in secular Greek literature.

It is a one-of-a-kind word for a one-of-a-kind person in a one-of-a-kind situation.  No one else in human history is κεχαριτωμένη (kecharitomene).

I challenge you to show where else it was used.

And ponder on why God sent his angel to address Mary with a term never before used (and never again to be used) on any other individual.

Secondly, copying and pasting words I agree with is neither bad nor a sin. That's why you copy and paste from the Bible all the time.

italo:


The Greek word "kecharitomene" was never used anywhere in scripture or in secular Greek literature.

It is a one-of-a-kind word for a one-of-a-kind person in a one-of-a-kind situation.  No one else in human history is κεχαριτωμένη (kecharitomene).

I challenge you to show where else it was used.

Ephesians 1:6 negro.

All I have required from Satanists here and in the other thread is;
1. Proof of perpetual virginity if Mary
2. Sinlessness of Mary
dmandy, Syncan and all other hooligans failed. I mentioned you not because I expected an answer but because I wanted you to witness Satanists' wits.

And ponder on why God sent his angel to address Mary with a term never before used (and never again to be used) on any other individual.

There are dozens of terms used singly in the scriptures. This adds no mystery to their usage except where the mystery is hallucinated in your mind.

If the term 'never' been used before how do you know it's meaning?

Is it true the word had never been used?

Sirach 18:17
Lo, is not a word better than a gift? but both are with a gracious [κεχαριτωμένῳ] man”
Before you flap gums first appreciate that Catholicism Satanism is madly in love with the book
The word was quite common well before Mary was born.

Besides, how does being highly favored, a term used when she was a woman mean she was favored at birth as Catholics Satanists insinuate, and which in turn mean she was immaculately conceived?

Secondly, copying and pasting words I agree with is neither bad nor a sin. That's why you copy and paste from the Bible all the time.

It's no sin but it is a clear demonstration of brainwashing and frozen cranium

italo:


I believe God wanted the New Ark of the Covenant (which would carry his word in flesh) to be pure, spotless and untouchable...just like (in fact, even purer) than the old Ark of the Covenant (which carried his word on stone).

Now, if Mary was physically a virgin, but spiritually soiled with sin, of what use would her physical virginity be? We all know God looks not upon physical appearance, but upon the heart (as he said when he chose David).

To understand more of the nature of Mary, consider what Angel Gabriel said to her when he appeared: "Chaire, kecharitomene" (in Greek).

“chaire” - Means "hail” or “rejoice”

"charis" – Means “grace”

"charitoo" – Greek verb ending in omicron omega (“oo”) means to put the person or thing into the state indicated by the root. The root being "charis" or “grace,” "charitoo" means “to put into a state of "grace.”

"ke" – Greek perfect tense prefix indicates a perfected, completed present state as a result of past action. Thus, a perfected, completed present state of "charis," or “grace,” as a result of past action.

"mene" – Greek passive participle suffix indicates action performed on subject by another. Thus, a perfected, completed present state of "charis," or “grace,” as a result of the past action of another. As the speaker is the angel Gabriel, the "other" is God.

Therefore, "chaire kecharitomene" means: “Hail, who has been perfectly and completely graced by God.” The common Catholic rendering, "full of grace," while good, may actually fall short!

In other words, one can deduce Mary's immaculate conception from the virgin birth. If this is true, does it not follow that Mary's parents would also have had to undergo some kind of immaculate conception in order to conceive Mary sin less and also the same theory could as well be applied to her grand parents. And the list goes on.

Please are there any online resources you would recommend that translates bible texts to their original language, and do it back and forth? Thank you.

vooks:

Ephesians 1:6 negro.

All I have required from Satanists here and in the other thread is;
1. Proof of perpetual virginity if Mary
2. Sinlessness of Mary
dmandy, Syncan and all other hooligans failed. I mentioned you not because I expected an answer but because I wanted you to witness Satanists' wits.



There are dozens of terms used singly in the scriptures. This adds no mystery to their usage except where the mystery is hallucinated in your mind.

If the term 'never' been used before how do you know it's meaning?

Is it true the word had never been used?

Sirach 18:17
Lo, is not a word better than a gift? but both are with a gracious κεχαριτωμένῳ man”
Before you flap gums first appreciate that Catholicism Satanism is madly in love with the book
The word was quite common well before Mary was born.

Besides, how does being highly favored, a term used when she was a woman mean she was favored at birth as Catholics Satanists insinuate, and which in turn mean she was immaculately conceived?

It's no sin but it is a clear demonstration of brainwashing and frozen cranium

The Greek word "kecharitomene" was never used anywhere in scripture or in secular Greek literature.

It is a one-of-a-kind word for a one-of-a-kind person in a one-of-a-kind situation.  No one else in human history is κεχαριτωμένη (kecharitomene).

I challenge you to show where else it was used.

Look at the bold. They're different. The word used in Sirach18:17 is kecharitomeno; the one used in Luke1:28 is kecharitomene.

Insulting me and Catholicism will not for them to be the same word.

Kecharitomene has only been used to address the Blessed Virgin Mary!

italo:


The Greek word "kecharitomene" was never used anywhere in scripture or in secular Greek literature.

It is a one-of-a-kind word for a one-of-a-kind person in a one-of-a-kind situation.  No one else in human history is κεχαριτωμένη (kecharitomene).

I challenge you to show where else it was used.

Look at the bold. They're different. The word used in Sirach18:17 is kecharitomeno; the one used in Luke1:28 is kecharitomene.

Insulting me and Catholicism will not for them to be the same word.

Kecharitomene has only been used to address the Blessed Virgin Mary!

What is the difference between Sirach (kecharitomeno) and Luke ( kecharitomene)?

Geist:
In other words, one can deduce Mary's immaculate conception from the virgin birth. If this is true, does it not follow that Mary's parents would also have had to undergo some kind of immaculate conception in order to conceive Mary sin less and also the same theory could as well be applied to her grand parents. And the list goes on.

Please are there any online resources you would recommend that translates bible texts to their original language, and do it back and forth? Thank you.

I'll answer you later today. Extremely busy day.

It is only an incorruptible SEED that can result in an incorruptible FRUIT, hence the importance of an unused vessel.

Mary was favored; she was not the only virgin at the time.

Jesus had biological sibling(s) who were born of Mary and Joseph.. Galatians 1v19

Wow. There's a lot going on here. I'll come back to read it all up later.

vooks:


What is the difference between Sirach (kecharitomen o ) and Luke ( kecharitomen e )?

Are you blind?

italo:


Are you blind?

What is the difference?

vooks:

What is the difference?

it would be good to know the difference (in meaning, not in spelling)

PastorOluT:


I guess u just dont want to get it right? Her human purity do not count at all, but d symbol of virginity.

NB A virgin still remains a virgin irrespective, even if she steals her virginity remains intact. Virgin symbolizes purity which was what was/is been considered. Though I personally believed Mary was morally upright, but thats not the point.

So God only cared about a symbol of purity in d birth of his son but didnt care about the reality of purity?

that is strange becos a symbol is supose to point to a reality.