Henry240:


They are not.

Ironic coming from a guy, who's navy sail in 60 year old cutters.

Patchesagain:


1. You do lack capacity - aradu has been broken since 2005

2. SAN pulls off 2-3 exercises of that scale per year

3. Defenceweb did not say that, go back and read the article.

4. How are they obsolete? Compared to what? Does that mean Lafayette, De Gaulle and F100 are also relics?

This is so pathetic guy, you find out we are off to India and China for parades and exercises and you launch this tirade based on the meaningless testimony of a man who was destroyed on the stand and an article in Defenceweb that you are mis-quoting... my father told me never to act in emotion... maybe I should give him your number so he can give you the same lecture

- NNS ohue, NNS Barama, NNS Siri, NNS Ekpo, evidence which say we do. We do not yet have a requirement for Aradu. Aradu is a Frigate not a long endurance patrol vessels.

4 long endurance patrols we have 5 ships available.


- Nope SA navy does not have the capacity to pull of such, only Nigeria does in SSA.


2&3 already answered, come back when you have evidence to the contrary.



*P.S, it's 2016, 19 years after, and SAAF is still stuck with 9 non-combat qualified gripen pilots. Now, that's pathetic.


God bless your Father, but like a wayward son, you have refused to heed his advice.

Meaningless testimony(s) you cannot disapprove, so much for "meaningless".

Henry240:


- 2, according to available data, yours use obsolete combat suits.


- 3, your bought bare, simple SAR helicopters for 13 million a unit. Pathetic!

They bought mere SAR helicopters for $ 40 million each, price of the Super Lynx....it can buy an ATR-42...British rip off on South Africa !

Henry240:


- NNS ohue, NNS Barama, NNS Siri, NNS Ekpo, evidence which say we do. We do not yet have a requirement for Aradu. Aradu is a Frigate not a long endurance patrol vessels.

4 long endurance patrols we have 5 ships available.


- Nope SA navy does not have the capacity to pull of such, only Nigeria does in SSA.


2&3 already answered, come back when you have evidence to the contrary.



*P.S, it's 2016, 19 years after, and SAAF is still stuck with 9 non-combat qualified gripen pilots. Now, that's pathetic.


God bless your Father, but like a wayward son, you have refused to heed his advice.

Meaningless testimony(s) you cannot disapprove, so much for "meaningless".

- small and simple ships easy to fix. Not like a sub or modern frigate.

- Except we did this year in Ex Oxide, Isambar and with the Germans, as we do every year.

- Valour Class uses the same combat suite as those vessles, if it is obsolete so are they?

- Running to a new topic are we? Currently its 14 pilots with 10 more in the final stage of their training. And who says they arent combat qualified?

I dont have to disprove it, it was disproven on the stand.

Yet again we have reached that stage, where you just make the same statement over and over... I guess the SAN has destroyed you today.

agaugust:


They bought mere SAR helicopters for $ 40 million each, price of the Super Lynx....it can buy an ATR-42...British rip off on South Africa !

"mere SAR helicopter"

- It incorporates an all new integrated "glass" cockpit with a colour liquid crystal display system provides the crew with state-of-the-art technology increasing crew and mission effectiveness.
- Complemented with a Full Authority Digital Engine Control (FADEC) delivers low maintenance, enhanced performance and excellent economy with over 30% more power.
-The Telephonics Ocean-Eye radar is the aircraft's primary mission sensor and allows the crew to detect and track small to large surface contacts at long ranges.
-Complementing the radar is the Sysdel Sea Raven Electronic Support Measures (ESM) suite, which is used for passive target detection and identification.
- A Denel Optronics Argos 410-M Electro Optic Sight System with a forward-looking infra-red (FLIR) sensor and a day camera is used for passive target identification and recording.
- Target tracks and video images can be transmitted to the parent ship in real time using the Datalink unit supplied by Thales Advanced Engineering.

South African components include:

- a Sysdel electronic warfare suite,
- a Saab Grintek Avitronics EW countermeasures system,
- an Aerosud armoured flight crew seats
- as well as an infrared exhaust suppression system
- Denel is supplying an electro-optical sighting system (EOSS) and Tellumat an Identification Friend or Foe system.
- Thales Advanced Engineering was contracted to supply a datalink as a well as a "video grabber", a dedicated bit of hardware that allows the transfer of video material taken by the EOSS to be transmitted to the mothership for further action.
- Reutech Defence Industries and Saab Grintek Communications Systems provided the HF and V/UHF radios.

Patchesagain:


1. Which facts and in comparison to what?

2. No, you do not deal in facts - you are dealing in allegations, allegations which did not survive cross-examination

3. In FACT (remeber we deal in fact here), your ONLY frigate is 36 years old. Your cutter are nearly 60 years old and your CORVETTES are 1 year old.

- the facts are the raw data. The raw data you cannot seem to disapprove. They are the facts.


- nope, please Patrick of Soweto, disprove them?


- they are larger than the Type-056. They are light frigates, not corvettes.

I also seem to remember you affirming that the age of the hull doesn't matter, it's the systems inside that do. As is the case, going by your own admission, both the Thunder and Okpabana after receiving a series of up-grades over their life time, and with the advanced systems they have on board which allows seamless networking, they are amongst the most advanced ships in Africa.

jln115:

1.No you can't , because they were never fitted for it, our Valours were fitted to carry 16 anti ship missles, and they also already have torpedo tubes unlike your OPVs.

2. Yes they are fitted with Super-Rapid, multiple sourc have been provided.

Stop lying, we discussed this issue last year. SAN official naval website says they are NOT super rapid, and the photos show they are NOT super rapid that is stealthy in architecture with straight edges, those round shaped edges 76mm guns are NOT super rapid.

Why don't you honour honesty for a few times in your country, do you South Africans even go to church? You tell lies toooooo much !!!!!!
.

Patchesagain:


Ok, so if that data says Valour class is obsolete... is Lafayette, Charles De Gaule and Saudi F100 also obsolete?

Yes or no

Valour class is obsolete, YES! The data proves this.


Lafayette, F100 et al, we do not have the data to prove they are obsolete.

Henry240:

[s]
- the facts are the raw data. The raw data you cannot seem to disapprove. They are the facts.


- nope, please Patrick of Soweto, disprove them?


- they are larger than the Type-056. They are light frigates, not corvettes.

I also seem to remember you affirming that the age of the hull doesn't matter, it's the systems inside that do. As is the case, going by your own admission, both the Thunder and Okpabana after receiving a series of up-grades over their life time, and with the advanced systems they have on board which allows seamless networking, they are amongst the most advanced ships in Africa[/s].

- "raw data" destroyed on the stand.

- nope, those are corvettes... frigates need to be over 3000t

- Citation needed for these capabilities. They are stripped down 60 year old vessels.

Please answer the question: Is the Lafayette, Charles de Gaulle and Saudi F100 frigate obsolete?

Patchesagain:


"mere SAR helicopter"

- It incorporates an all new integrated "glass" cockpit with a colour liquid crystal display system provides the crew with state-of-the-art technology increasing crew and mission effectiveness.
- Complemented with a Full Authority Digital Engine Control (FADEC) delivers low maintenance, enhanced performance and excellent economy with over 30% more power.
-The Telephonics Ocean-Eye radar is the aircraft's primary mission sensor and allows the crew to detect and track small to large surface contacts at long ranges.
-Complementing the radar is the Sysdel Sea Raven Electronic Support Measures (ESM) suite, which is used for passive target detection and identification.
- A Denel Optronics Argos 410-M Electro Optic Sight System with a forward-looking infra-red (FLIR) sensor and a day camera is used for passive target identification and recording.
- Target tracks and video images can be transmitted to the parent ship in real time using the Datalink unit supplied by Thales Advanced Engineering.

South African components include:

- a Sysdel electronic warfare suite,
- a Saab Grintek Avitronics EW countermeasures system,
- an Aerosud armoured flight crew seats
- as well as an infrared exhaust suppression system
- Denel is supplying an electro-optical sighting system (EOSS) and Tellumat an Identification Friend or Foe system.
- Thales Advanced Engineering was contracted to supply a datalink as a well as a "video grabber", a dedicated bit of hardware that allows the transfer of video material taken by the EOSS to be transmitted to the mothership for further action.
- Reutech Defence Industries and Saab Grintek Communications Systems provided the HF and V/UHF radios.

[size=15pt] It CANNOT FIGHT a simple Nigerian Shaldag gunboat
.[/size]

Henry240:


Valour class is obsolete, YES! The data proves this.


Lafayette, F100 et al, we do not have the data to prove they are obsolete.

They use the same combat suite.

So, if they use the same combat suite... are they also obsolete?

agaugust:




[size=15pt] It CANNOT FIGHT a simple Nigerian Shaldag gunboat
.[/size]

Not suprising since it is not an attack helicopter

Henry240:


- 2, according to available data, yours use obsolete combat suits.


- 3, your bought bare, simple SAR helicopters for 13 million a unit. Pathetic!

-2 According to available data they use the same combat suit as the La fayette, Charles de Gaulle and F3000 class.

3. More modern than any helicopter the Nigerian defence force has ever fielded, also" Fitted for,but not with"

agaugust:


They bought mere SAR helicopters for $ 40 million each, price of the Super Lynx....it can buy an ATR-42...British rip off on South Africa !

LOL.... My bad, $40 million for mere SARs. LMFAO!

Henry240:


LOL.... My bad, $40 million for mere SARs. LMFAO!

"mere SARs"


- It incorporates an all new integrated "glass" cockpit with a colour liquid crystal display system provides the crew with state-of-the-art technology increasing crew and mission effectiveness.
- Complemented with a Full Authority Digital Engine Control (FADEC) delivers low maintenance, enhanced performance and excellent economy with over 30% more power.
-The Telephonics Ocean-Eye radar is the aircraft's primary mission sensor and allows the crew to detect and track small to large surface contacts at long ranges.
-Complementing the radar is the Sysdel Sea Raven Electronic Support Measures (ESM) suite, which is used for passive target detection and identification.
- A Denel Optronics Argos 410-M Electro Optic Sight System with a forward-looking infra-red (FLIR) sensor and a day camera is used for passive target identification and recording.
- Target tracks and video images can be transmitted to the parent ship in real time using the Datalink unit supplied by Thales Advanced Engineering.

South African components include:

- a Sysdel electronic warfare suite,
- a Saab Grintek Avitronics EW countermeasures system,
- an Aerosud armoured flight crew seats
- as well as an infrared exhaust suppression system
- Denel is supplying an electro-optical sighting system (EOSS) and Tellumat an Identification Friend or Foe system.
- Thales Advanced Engineering was contracted to supply a datalink as a well as a "video grabber", a dedicated bit of hardware that allows the transfer of video material taken by the EOSS to be transmitted to the mothership for further action.
- Reutech Defence Industries and Saab Grintek Communications Systems provided the HF and V/UHF radios.

[size=15pt]Nigeria has no helo that compares!! Most advanced in SSA! I can taste the jelousy! [/size]

agaugust:


Stop lying, we discussed this issue last year. SAN official naval website says they are NOT super rapid, and the photos show they are NOT super rapid that is stealthy in architecture with straight edges, those round shaped edges 76mm guns are NOT super rapid.

Why don't you honour honesty for a few times in your country, do you South Africans even go to church? You tell lies toooooo much !!!!!!
.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr0OcXst59k

jln115:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr0OcXst59k

#Wrecked

Patchesagain:


- small and simple ships easy to fix. Not like a sub or modern frigate.

- Except we did this year in Ex Oxide, Isambar and with the Germans, as we do every year.

- Valour Class uses the same combat suite as those vessles, if it is obsolete so are they?

- Running to a new topic are we? Currently its 14 pilots with 10 more in the final stage of their training. And who says they arent combat qualified?

I dont have to disprove it, it was disproven on the stand.

Yet again we have reached that stage, where you just make the same statement over and over... I guess the SAN has destroyed you today.

- Again you failed to disapprove the point, and the point is we have the capacity to fix them up, and Aradu would be back when it is required.



- Cute, excerpt we had more than you, as usual the year started with Obangame Express, involving 49 ships, another exercise with our west-african partners, the central Naval command exercise, Eastern Naval command exercise, Western Naval command exercise, then a combined Naval exercise which culminated in Treasure guard which involved 13 Nigerian Navy ships.



So actually, you cannot, you neither have the resources or capacity.


- Provide evidence which disapproves the raw data i've consistently provided and cited.


- I can assure you, it won't take us 19 years to train 9 JF-17 thunder pilots.


-Disproven in the stand doesn't equal evidence.



- with your obsolete ships and lone pilot...... Far from it, it has been the source of my laughter all day.

Henry240:

[s]
- Again you failed to disapprove the point, and the point is we have the capacity to fix them up, and Aradu would be back when it is required.



- Cute, excerpt we had more than you, as usual the year started with Obangame Express, involving 49 ships, another exercise with our west-african partners, the central Naval command exercise, Eastern Naval command exercise, Western Naval command exercise, then a combined Naval exercise which culminated in Treasure guard which involved 13 Nigerian Navy ships.



So actually, you cannot, you neither have the resources or capacity.


- Provide evidence which disapproves the raw data i've consistently provided and cited.


- I can assure you, it won't take us 19 years to train 9 JF-17 thunder pilots.


-Disproven in the stand doesn't equal evidence.



- with your obsolete ships and lone pilot...... Far from it, it has been the source of my laughter all day.[/s]

Henry

Just answer one question:

If the lafayette, Charles De Gaule and F100 frigates use the exact same combat system... are they also obsolete?

I find it strange that you wont answer this question...

Patchesagain:


Henry

Just answer one question:

If the lafayette, Charles De Gaule and F100 frigates use the exact same combat system... are they also obsolete?

I find it strange that you wont answer this question...

Valour class is obsolete, YES! The data proves this.

Lafayette, F100 et al, we do not have the data to prove they
are obsolete.

Patchesagain:


"mere SARs"


- It incorporates an all new integrated "glass" cockpit with a colour liquid crystal display system provides the crew with state-of-the-art technology increasing crew and mission effectiveness.
- Complemented with a Full Authority Digital Engine Control (FADEC) delivers low maintenance, enhanced performance and excellent economy with over 30% more power.
-The Telephonics Ocean-Eye radar is the aircraft's primary mission sensor and allows the crew to detect and track small to large surface contacts at long ranges.
-Complementing the radar is the Sysdel Sea Raven Electronic Support Measures (ESM) suite, which is used for passive target detection and identification.
- A Denel Optronics Argos 410-M Electro Optic Sight System with a forward-looking infra-red (FLIR) sensor and a day camera is used for passive target identification and recording.
- Target tracks and video images can be transmitted to the parent ship in real time using the Datalink unit supplied by Thales Advanced Engineering.

South African components include:

- a Sysdel electronic warfare suite,
- a Saab Grintek Avitronics EW countermeasures system,
- an Aerosud armoured flight crew seats
- as well as an infrared exhaust suppression system
- Denel is supplying an electro-optical sighting system (EOSS) and Tellumat an Identification Friend or Foe system.
- Thales Advanced Engineering was contracted to supply a datalink as a well as a "video grabber", a dedicated bit of hardware that allows the transfer of video material taken by the EOSS to be transmitted to the mothership for further action.
- Reutech Defence Industries and Saab Grintek Communications Systems provided the HF and V/UHF radios.

[size=13pt]Nigeria has no helo that compares!! Most advanced in SSA! I can taste the jelousy! [/size]

[size=13pt]

Nigerian Navy has superior long range SAR AW-139 helicopters you dummy !


With Navy pilots, and under Nigerian Navy aviation wing, something South African navy CANNOT do.....SAN has no pilot and no aviation wing ! Obsolete naval doctrine ![/size]


►Fastest cruise speed and highest power to weight ratio in its category worldwide !

►Two powerful Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6 engines, with FADEC and an advanced rotor system provide superior ‘hot and high’ performance and exceptional One Engine Inoperative (OEI) capability for unparalleled safety (Cat. A Class 1 performance at Maximum Gross Weight at 40°C at Sea Level) and handling for SAR operations in confined areas

►State-of-the-art Honeywell Primus Epic® VFR / IFR low workload NVG compatible integrated glass cockpit with 4-axis digital autopilot, advanced avionics and systems provide excellent situational awareness and maximise mission effectiveness

►Optional mission equipment, including multi-band radios, radar, Electro-Optic / Infra-Red (EO/IR) device, mission console, video down-link, searchlight, loudspeakers, rescue hoist and cargo hook

►Largest cabin volume in its class, with accommodation for 2-4 stretchers with up to 5 seats

►Large sliding doors and flat-floor cabin enable use of hoist and rapid entry / egress on ground

►The only helicopter in its class to fully satisfy the latest FAR29 and AIROPS regulations, incorporating crashworthiness and survivability features

►Mission equipment including multi-band radios, radar, Electro-Optic / Infra-Red (EO/IR) device, mission console, video down-link, searchlight, loudspeakers, rescue hoist and cargo hook, internal weapons and modular ballistic protection for cockpit and cabin

►Largest passenger cabin in its class maximises working room and mission flexibility 8 m3 / 283 ft3 of cabin space can accommodate up to 15 passengers or 8 deployable law enforcement officers and 2 armed crew for aircraft protection

►Redundant systems, crashworthiness and self-sealing fuel tanks for survivability and safety

http://www.finmeccanica.com/-/aw139



.

Henry240:


Valour class is obsolete, YES! The data proves this.

Lafayette, F100 et al, we do not have the data to prove they
are obsolete.

If they have the same combat suite they have the same data.

So, are they obsolete?

agaugust:


Nigerian Navy has long range SAR AW-139 helicopters you dummy ! With Navy pilots, and under Navy aviation wing, something South African navy CANNOT do.....SAN has no pilot and no aviation wing ! Obsolete naval doctrine !

[/size]

Fastest cruise speed and highest power to weight ratio in its category

Two powerful Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6 engines, with FADEC and an advanced rotor system provide superior ‘hot and high’ performance and exceptional One Engine Inoperative (OEI) capability for unparalleled safety (Cat. A Class 1 performance at Maximum Gross Weight at 40°C at Sea Level) and handling for SAR operations in confined areas

State-of-the-art Honeywell Primus Epic® VFR / IFR low workload NVG compatible integrated glass cockpit with 4-axis digital autopilot, advanced avionics and systems provide excellent situational awareness and maximise mission effectiveness

Optional mission equipment, including multi-band radios, radar, Electro-Optic / Infra-Red (EO/IR) device, mission console, video down-link, searchlight, loudspeakers, rescue hoist and cargo hook

Largest cabin volume in its class, with accommodation for 2-4 stretchers with up to 5 seats

Large sliding doors and flat-floor cabin enable use of hoist and rapid entry / egress on ground

The only helicopter in its class to fully satisfy the latest FAR29 and AIROPS regulations, incorporating crashworthiness and survivability features

Mission equipment including multi-band radios, radar, Electro-Optic / Infra-Red (EO/IR) device, mission console, video down-link, searchlight, loudspeakers, rescue hoist and cargo hook, internal weapons and modular ballistic protection for cockpit and cabin

Largest passenger cabin in its class maximises working room and mission flexibility 8 m3 / 283 ft3 of cabin space can accommodate up to 15 passengers or 8 deployable law enforcement officers and 2 armed crew for aircraft protection

Redundant systems, crashworthiness and self-sealing fuel tanks for survivability and safety

http://www.finmeccanica.com/-/aw139



.

lol - you think optional equipment impresses us? How do we know you have it??

Your ancient helo's arent even airworthy!

Super Lynx > Nigerian Hangar Exibits

Patchesagain:

If they have the same combat suite they have the same data.
So, are they obsolete?

Until we see their data, we cannot say.

Valour class = Obsolete, Yes!

Henry240:


Until we see their data, we cannot say.


Valour class = Obsolete, Yes!

So you are saying that the same combat suite will not have the same data?


You need to read Sereti Comission testimony - your man said Valour Class's combat suite was inferior to HIS combat suite. Problem was, HIS combat suite was only THEORETICAL, had NO PROTOTYPE and would have added 40% to the total cost of the vessel and there was no guarantee that IT WOULD EVEN WORK.

Fact is this: At the time, the Thales Detexis Tavatic system was the most advanced available - proven by the fact that the French chose it for their Frigates, the Saudi's chose it for their frigate and again the French chose it for their flagship (A nuclear aircraft carrier)

jln115:

Ironic coming from a guy, who's navy sail in 60 year old cutters.

Ultra-Modern NNS Centenary stealth OPV is brand new, about one year old, and her sister ship NNS Unity is almost ready brand new built.

Project Biro cannot even give South African navy one Stealth OPV in 20 years

Patchesagain:


- "raw data" destroyed on the stand.

- nope, those are corvettes... frigates need to be over 3000t

- Citation needed for these capabilities. They are stripped down 60 year old vessels.

Please answer the question: Is the Lafayette, Charles de Gaulle and Saudi F100 frigate obsolete?

"Gan jou in die rede val, maat"(dont know the English expression hehe), I think its more fair to classify modern ships, in terms of their armament instead of tonnage, If you take the Valour class/ for example, its armed with 16/32 SAMs, 8/16 ASMs, 1x 76mm Gun, 2X 20mm guns, 2X 12,7 remotely operated guns, 1X Denel 35mm dual purpose gun, 4 324mm topedo tubes... With its armament it could easily be classified as a Destroyer.

Type 056 on the other hand is fitted to carry only 8 SAMs, 4 ASMs , 1X76mm gun, 2X30mm guns, 6torpedo tubes, thus would rightly be classified as a corvette.

agaugust:


Ultra-Modern NNS Centenary stealth OPV is brand new, about one year old, and her sister ship NNS Unity is almost ready brand new built.

Project Biro cannot even give South African navy one Stealth OPV in 20 years

Prove that project Biro is 20 years old!!

jln115:

"Gan jou in die rede val, maat"(dont know the English expression hehe), I think its more fair to classify modern ships, in terms of their armament instead of tonnage, If you take the Valour class/ for example, its armed with 16/32 SAMs, 8/16 ASMs, 1x 76mm Gun, 2X 20mm guns, 2X 12,7 remotely operated guns, 1X Denel 35mm dual purpose gun, 4 324mm topedo tubes... With its armament it could easily be classified as a Destroyer.

Type 056 on the other hand is fitted to carry only 8 SAMs, 4 ASMs , 1X76mm gun, 2X30mm guns, 6torpedo tubes, thus would rightly be classified as a corvette.

Destroyer ? With only one 76mm gun from 1972 scrap yard? Fool.

Stop lying, South African navy Valour frigates have only about 13 Exocet missiles instead of the 32 missiles required to equip 4 ships.

All your Valour frigates have ZERO torpedoes.

Valour frigate Exocet has range about 70 km, Type 056 has C-803 with 250 km range....Nigerian corvette will sink your frigate
.

agaugust:


Destroyer ? With only one 76mm gun from 1972 scrap yard? Fool.

Stop lying, South African navy Valour frigates have only about 13 Exocet missiles instead of the 32 missiles required to equip 4 ships.

All your Valour frigates have ZERO torpedoes.

Valour frigate Exocet has range about 70 km, Type 056 has C-803 with 250 km range....Nigerian corvette will sink your frigate
.

1. Super Rapid

2. Valour Class can carry up to 16 SSM's and 32 SAMs

3. Why would we need torps when we are the only ones in SSA who operate subs?

4. Nigerian Corvette has no missiles - it will be target practice for a valour class

agaugust:


Destroyer ? With only one 76mm gun from 1972 scrap yard? Fool.

Stop lying, South African navy Valour frigates have only about 13 Exocet missiles instead of the 32 missiles required to equip 4 ships.

All your Valour frigates have ZERO torpedoes.

Valour frigate Exocet has range about 70 km, Type 056 has C-803 with 250 km range....Nigerian corvette will sink your frigate
.

Yes, I agree that it could have a larger gun, but with the rest of its armament it could easily fall into the Destroyer category!

Secondly who's type 056 are going to sink our Valours? because as far as i know your P18s have 0 missiles! and 0 Torpedoes.

Patchesagain:


1. You do lack capacity - aradu has been broken since 2005

2. SAN pulls off 2-3 exercises of that scale per year

3. Defenceweb did not say that, go back and read the article.

4. How are they obsolete? Compared to what? Does that mean Lafayette, De Gaulle and F100 are also relics?

This is so pathetic guy, you find out we are off to India and China for parades and exercises and you launch this tirade based on the meaningless testimony of a man who was destroyed on the stand and an article in Defenceweb that you are mis-quoting... my father told me never to act in emotion... maybe I should give him your number so he can give you the same lecture

You are a big liar.

Pls Tell us how many ships SAN has?

San only has about 16 ships so how will they hold such exercise yearly.

Fraudsters.