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Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by FOLYKAZE(m): 5:39am On Feb 11, 2016 |
Reyginus: You are the one driving us back and forth. I agree etymology capture the true meaning of a word. I have said this severally and moved away from this. If you have a point to prove here, you can proceed by providing the etymology of 'spirituality' and tell us what it has to do with Christianity. My point is, Christianity is not a form spirituality. Christianity is a religion which is opposite of spirituality |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by Nobody: 8:32am On Feb 11, 2016 |
FOLYKAZE:Lol. I hope after providing the etymology of spirituality you'd have a LoGiCaL defense not some statements saying nothing. He's already making a mistake by thinking Spirituality is opposite of Religion. But I will provide it still. Here it is: And Read. Read. Think. And Think. Except you are already made up on what to accept. 'of or concerning the spirit" (ESPECIALLY IN RELIGIOUS ASPECTS), from Old French spirituel , esperituel (12c.) or directly from a Medieval Latin ecclesiastical use of Latin spiritualis "of or pertaining to breath, breathing, wind, or air; pertaining to spirit," from spiritus "of breathing, of the spirit". Do you agree with this if you don't tell me the etymology? |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by logoscope(m): 11:22am On Feb 11, 2016 |
FOLYKAZE:I seems you are knowledgeable on the Yoruba religion. First are spirits real? Do rituals actually work? Cos I could walk up to any random person, tell him/her is possessed with an evil spirit and cast it out with profound physical effect (super cool trick). Or pour water from a jug till it empty and simply refill the jug by blessing it (another super cool trick). |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by FOLYKAZE(m): 11:37am On Feb 11, 2016 |
Reyginus: You are very manipulative in your argument. You went and brought out distored definition fit into what you want me to see (religion) The embolden is the real deal Rey. Your presented etymology buttress my points further. Here are the points: 1. The embolden word 'especially' shows you are not providing a sincere and traditional definition of spirituality. Therefore, the first coming definition is one sided, not traditional or original and cannot be accepted. 2. The word 'especially' there makes your whole definition not acceptable. Especially is employed when one want to single out a thing, or situation over others. So what you provided is heavily distorted, one sided, not realistic and cannot be accepted. 3. Etymology of a word got lost when you define the said word from a particular angle, perspective, or aspect. A very good example is the word worship. Etymologically, worship simple mean acknowledging the worth of someone or something. But when you define worship from the christian aspect or perspective, we arrive at this definitions - the act of showing respect and love for a god by praying with other people who believe in the same god; and - The ceremonies, prayers, or other religious forms by which this love is expressed. Can you see the gap between etymology and christian perspective of worship? What has 'acknowledging worth of something' got to do with communual prayer or ceremonies? Do you now see that perception from one particular angle distort, dillute and redress the original or traditionall or root meaning of a word? So Rey, your definition and etymology do not align and cannot be accepted. 4. I dont really have problem with your presented etymology. But what does the etymology have to do with christianity? What are the relationship between the etymology of spirit and Christianity? 5. I am not making any mistake when I said religion is not spirituality. Religion is from the latin religionem meaning bond between man and God. Another latin word is ligare meaning bind. So we can define religion as a belief system that binds some groups together. This is opposing to spirituality from the word spirit which has it root in the latin word spiritualis meaning wind or breathe. , generally meaning individual animation. This seems to translate to the fact that religion is a group belief system, whereas spirituality is more of an individualist belief system. Christianiny is a group belief system which is religion. Ifa is an individualist belief system which makes it spirituality. Christianity as a religion contain codes, ethic, rules and regulation, this cannot be said of Ifa which makes it a spirituality. The most important thing here is individual spiritual experince over brotherhood of christ. |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by Nobody: 11:44am On Feb 11, 2016 |
FOLYKAZE:Lolololololololol. You are not really honest. Let me help your number four. The etymology is simply telling you that Spirituality has to do with the Spirit, the inner man and it can Religious or Not Religious. Fault me. You can also get us your Etymology of the word. |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by FOLYKAZE(m): 11:49am On Feb 11, 2016 |
logoscope: What do you understand as reality? Ritual works. The daily ritual we human and animal make to the god called "Olubobotiribo" provide us physical growth and strenght. Olubobotiribo is mouth. The sacrifice we give it the food we eat. And we gain energy and chemicals to boost our growth, brain and strenght. This is why I do define Sacrifice as Nourishment. You give out meal either into your belly or a natural entity called God. There wil always be an equal reaction which will be your own gain. Our Fathers feed Mother Earth (Iyale) with leaves, pieced fruit, seed and tuber. They give earth waste of animal and blood in form of ritual to appeal the earth with the expectation to havest more in later future. What they do is called Natural fertilization. So we know how large the harvest would be after they have made their sacrifice (apply fertilizer) to the soil. To the traditionist, the sacrifice has been accepted and works fine. Trick here is meant for entertainment. Eshu is the master of tricks. This has nothing to do with Ifa |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by Nobody: 12:09pm On Feb 11, 2016 |
I am wondering if Folykaze really doesnt understand Reyginus or that he is just acting it.... Reyginus point is crystal clear to me.... |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by FOLYKAZE(m): 12:33pm On Feb 11, 2016 |
Reyginus: Bros. . . You are finding it hard to do away with your misconcepts. Spirit mean breathe or wind. Spirit can be defined as the vital principle that animinate person. This has nothing to do with inner man. Religion is a group belief system, while spirituality is more of an individualist belief system. One is personal while the other is not. One is binded by law while the other come as will and or best experience. Therefore, these large differences cannot make both spirituality and religion the same. I gave you the etymology of spirituality. I stated that spirituality comes from the word spirit which has it root in the latin word spiritualis meaning wind or breathe. , generally meaning individual animation. You are confusing soul (inner man) and spirit. They are two different things though sometimes used interchangably but stil have different meaning. Christianity is not an individual thing thereofre cannot be regarded as spirituality. This cannot be said of Ifa. Ifa is more personal. My relationship with my Ori, mediation in Igbodu or Ojubo, and engagement with Orisha is very personal. My wife, parent and even priest cannot get involve. There is no lay down rule or conduct. Everything boild down to will, choice, experience and personal evaluation. This is why it is a pure spirituality unlike Christianity which has been bastardized with doctrines, church tradition and manipulations 1 Like |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by FOLYKAZE(m): 12:34pm On Feb 11, 2016 |
Tufanja: What is his point that is clear to you? That guy is trying to trap me in a cirlce. . .he is wild. |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by logoscope(m): 12:41pm On Feb 11, 2016 |
FOLYKAZE:But there is a scientific reason why this works. I'm mean eating of food and application of fertilizer. There is nothing mystifying about it. What I'm concerned about is events that seems to defile physical laws. Such as cutlass proof, appearing and disappearing, seeing sm1 through a white cloth, e.t.c |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by FOLYKAZE(m): 1:07pm On Feb 11, 2016 |
logoscope: Who says Science negates spirituality? Science is a component part of spirituality. Are you aware of Alchemy (Spirituality) and Chemistry (Science)? Do you know Astrolatry and Astronomy? Do you know agriculture is a spiritual act before modernity comes? Fela to be spiritual is not by praying and going to church. Spiritualism is the understanding of the universe so that it can be a better place to live in. Now if science entails understanding of the universe, isnt that componnent part of Spirituality? 1 Like |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by Nobody: 2:01pm On Feb 11, 2016 |
FOLYKAZE:Lol. Through which means do you relate to Ifa? How do you do it? |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by Nobody: 2:04pm On Feb 11, 2016 |
Tufanja:I'm hundred percent sure he understands. The problem is that he's already made up his mind on what to accept. To even begin, the origin and history of the English word is Christian and Cultic. 1 Like |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by FOLYKAZE(m): 2:48pm On Feb 11, 2016 |
Reyginus: By casting divination chain (Opele) or nuts (Ikin). The pattern that surface must be understood. And further interpretation will be infused. This is more like testing your body temp with a medical device, understanding the test result and having ability to interprete your result. The only matter of difference between medical device and Ifa is that one is technical and the other is spiritual. I dont personally have my Ikin Ifa though my Awo is disturbing me to get one. Those who have their Ikin needs to personaly relate with it. They do not need communual service or congregate in a bulding with other Awo before they can relate with their Ifa. Samething goes with Ori. . . .this is individual Orisha, the spark of consciousness and the Original self. Connecting Ori Inu with Iponri is a personal task. This will make us grow spiritually and know who we are, why we are here and how to reach our aims. There no rule, doctrine, ethic or code at arriving this spiritual height in Ifa. This is what made up what we call spirituality. To know your self is a task and if you succeed then you will become an Orisa Akunlebo. Christians are selfless "wannabe" who lost their selfness in sin and think beliving in one dead Jew is the Lord and Saviour, and following his way of life will restore this selfness in a new heaven. 1 Like |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by timepackers: 2:55pm On Feb 11, 2016 |
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Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by FOLYKAZE(m): 3:00pm On Feb 11, 2016 |
Reyginus: Oga refute my points if you find any wrongs in it. I do not make up my mind. I have critically examine both sides and find out spirituality has been distorted and bastardiced by religionist like you. The fact must be lay down. Tell us how Christianity is a spirituality.. Maybe you should come from another side. The definition and etymology attempt has been trashed as what you presented does not have any correlation with Christianity and Spirituality been on the same path. 2 Likes |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by logoscope(m): 5:59pm On Feb 11, 2016 |
FOLYKAZE:Okay, okay. what about the other part I said: Such as cutlass proof, appearing and disappearing, seeing sm1 through a white cloth, e.t.c |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by FOLYKAZE(m): 6:34pm On Feb 11, 2016 |
logoscope: I will not tell you to believe any of those things. The best form of knowledge is experience. However, what you listed there is what we call "supernatural". Supernatural can be define as an occurence which have no natural explanation or cannot be observe within frame of scientifical/known natural laws. Supernatural occurence is real. You can experience it yourself. But I will oblidge you not to accept my words till after you have your own unexplanable experience. I dont have charm or possess those supernatural devices because I have no condition where they are needed. I can however testify that there are potent charm becasue I have experienced it first hand. I am thinking of sharing my testimonies soon. This is all stories. . . .but I understand you cannot make a valid conclusion with my stories. A first hand experience will convince ya Goodluck with that |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by logoscope(m): 9:37pm On Feb 11, 2016 |
FOLYKAZE:I've seen a first hand experience. It was one in which they were trying to fish out who stole a phone. It goes thus: "if blahblahblah stole the phone, let the Bible spin". For perfect description, imagine something in the shape of letter "T" protruding out of the Bible, tied with thread and then two people hold the edges of the letter "T". Then the thing spins accordingly. I can't be sure weather it was an awesome trick or not because we were all made to swear with it that in the next 7 days, the person would go mad. But nobody went mad and the "Bible spinning thing" revealed that the thief was in that house and they were even able to get the persons' name. |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by Ishilove: 10:22pm On Feb 11, 2016 |
Tufanja:It's fine dear, just busy busy busy. It's "how your side be" ![]() |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by Nobody: 11:21pm On Feb 11, 2016 |
FOLYKAZE:Lol. Thrashed? How? By saying that what is spiritual is not spirituality or by disagreeing with the definition of Spirituality? The word has been abused. Lol. What's the original then? |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by Nobody: 11:24pm On Feb 11, 2016 |
FOLYKAZE:You still miss the question. How do you relate with your divination through nuts? |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by FOLYKAZE(m): 5:42am On Feb 12, 2016 |
logoscope: Those that do this bible-chain stuff are white garment christians. I dont usually see those people as christians. They are more like Lukumi disgusing as Catholic |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by FOLYKAZE(m): 5:47am On Feb 12, 2016 |
Reyginus: Halting you from bringing in spirituality into religion with some word play game. You are trashed. I did not dispute the etymology you presented. I only asked you to align the etymology with Christian teaching which you cant. This indicate you are confused about Spirituality and the fact that it is distant from Christianity. 1 Like |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by FOLYKAZE(m): 5:49am On Feb 12, 2016 |
Reyginus: What do you think the divination nuts are? Some mythical being huh? How do you relate with your bible? |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by Nobody: 9:16am On Feb 12, 2016 |
FOLYKAZE:Lololol. Chai! See lies o. Okay let me do it again. 'of or concerning the spirit" ( ESPECIALLY IN RELIGIOUS ASPECTS), from Old French spirituel , esperituel (12c.) or directly from a Medieval Latin ecclesiastical use of Latin spiritualis "of or pertaining to breath, breathing, wind, or air; pertaining to spirit," from spiritus "of breathing, of the spirit'. Christianity tries to reconcile the man both meditation, self examination and spirit connection to a deity. A yes or No will do. Or you can even dispute the claims. Or give me the original etymology. |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by Nobody: 9:18am On Feb 12, 2016 |
FOLYKAZE:I relate with the bible by studying the words and applying them. How do you relate with your nuts? |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by FOLYKAZE(m): 9:49am On Feb 12, 2016 |
Reyginus: Mediate on Ese Ifa and apply them to one live. This is for personal When the nuts are casted, Omo Awo will recant the ese, and "ki" Ifa. The Agba there will interprete it and you are to apply it. And this is for consultants. 1 Like |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by Nobody: 10:06am On Feb 12, 2016 |
FOLYKAZE:What's Ese Ifa and who are Omo Awo and Agba? |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by FOLYKAZE(m): 11:12am On Feb 12, 2016 |
Reyginus: I don know you he don tay. You are that dubious Rey since Sango and energy debate who like going in endless cycle. What you wrote there contain two substances. One is a definition while the oher one is etymology. I shredded your definition when you were attempting to bring religion into it. Religion has nothing to do with spirituality. That is my point. And here is some ref: The term "spirituality", as contrasted with "religion", which derives from the Latin ligare or "belief systems that bind groups", derives from the the term wind or breath, generally meaning individual animation. This seems to translate to the fact that religion is a group belief system, whereas spirituality is more of an individualist belief system. The differences between religion and spirituality is glaring there. Spirituality is not institutionalized like Religion. Spirituality is an individual belief system. This oppose religion which is organised. Spiriuality have no room for codes, ethic and conducts, religion have generalized rules and regulation. Religion is about who is in and who is out. Creating a gap between those in the institution and those outside. Spirituality is about all including plants, animals and inanimate objects. Spirituality makes us see ourselves as and become God. Religion tell us about God and us as subjects. Spirituality makes us to belief from our experience, relligion maes you belief in other people experience. The central focus of religion is faith and belief. Spirituality makes us a being. Religion is a set of dogma, sets of rules and behaviors. Spirituality is what you feel without being told and without having to belong to something in particular. Spirituality create a world of one. Religion create thousands of world. If you can see these differences and still not withdraw the religion crap you infused into that definition above, then you are not to be taken serious never again. Concerning the etymology, I dont have problem with it until I found out you can not relate it with Christianity. Reyginus: How is Christianity relating to Spirituality when the bible itself raised a stern warning against christians from practising spiritualism? Leviticus 19:31, Leviticus 20:6 and Deuteronomy 18:9-13. The bible forbids spiritualism. And therefore, christianity has notning to do with spirituality. 1 Like |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by FOLYKAZE(m): 11:16am On Feb 12, 2016 |
Reyginus: Bros. . .Some Yoruba words do not have direct meaning in English. Ese Ifa is something like verse from Ifa corpus. Omo Awo mean a young initiate. Agba Awo are the baba who are initited in Ifa society a very long time |
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by Nobody: 11:23am On Feb 12, 2016 |
FOLYKAZE:Mr Kaze, why are you doing this? You mean Leviticus and Christianity? Deuteronomy and Christianity? But then Spiritists are those who communicate with the dead. You expect the bible to encourage that? I don't see how this contradicts Spirituality. Yes, spiritism is spirituality but religion is also. And in Deuteronomy too it is simply saying that their ways are evil. It's just like you saying that Christian ways shouldn't be followed. It doesn't mean your Ifa lacks Spirituality |
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