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Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Scholar8200(m): 7:08am On Feb 16, 2016 |
Empiree: Well I guess the difference between the Quran and OT is that the latter has purely ceremonial laws that do not get us nearer to God , and moral laws which are binding in all dispensations.However, right from the time the OT was given, God clearly hinted of the future showing that beyond external forms and compliance with rites, He wanted transformed hearts and lives just as the NT provides: 29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever! Deuteronomy 5:29 6 And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. Deuteronomy 30:6 This is why when John the baptist was born, his father declared concerning the soon to be born Messiah for Whom John was a forerunner: to perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; 73 the oath which he sware to our father Abraham, 74 that he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, 75 in holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life. Luke 1:72-75 This carries more weight than the outward ceremonies of abstinence from meats while the real defilants are in the heart! What aspect is misunderstood? Kindly indicate vis a vis the prophecies found in the prophets quoted |
Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by promisechuks: 7:27am On Feb 16, 2016 |
vzkpswaqnkhgytd:Why are you being deceived? How can the last testament be more sinful and corrupted that even the OT, let alone the NT? |
Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by vzkpswaqnkhgytd: 7:29am On Feb 16, 2016 |
promisechuks: Quran is the final word. I stand behind every word. Quran is uncorrupted, free of any crookedness. 1 Like |
Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by promisechuks: 7:32am On Feb 16, 2016 |
promisechuks: |
Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by promisechuks: 7:38am On Feb 16, 2016 |
vzkpswaqnkhgytd:You start insult people, when you prone to being exposed |
Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by promisechuks: 7:47am On Feb 16, 2016 |
vzkpswaqnkhgytd:Please, ignore your ignorance and answer my question. How does eating pork defile people? Your brother that are disturbing the whole world now, is it an unclean things they ate that made them to be terrorists? Man's corrupt conscience is not as a result of eating unclean things but because of what they think. What I am saying here is logical. |
Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by promisechuks: 7:53am On Feb 16, 2016 |
Scholar8200:Please, if you are really a Christian, you will know that angels are quite different holyspirit. Holyspirit is the part of God that posses every believer of the gospel. Does angel live/posses human being? Just think about it! |
Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Scholar8200(m): 7:59am On Feb 16, 2016 |
promisechuks:I know. I just want to clarify things from their perspective. |
Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by promisechuks: 8:24am On Feb 16, 2016 |
vzkpswaqnkhgytd:Just see how stupid you sound! The same quran you claim to be uncorrupted and free of crookedness that was eaten by goats in era of mohammed and the same quran is what is pushing most of you to practice terrorism in the name of religion. Get up from sleep, you have been long deceived. |
Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by promisechuks: 8:33am On Feb 16, 2016 |
Scholar8200:Okay, thanks a lot. Peace and grace of our lord Jesus be unto you. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 12:35pm On Feb 16, 2016 |
Scholar8200:Everything you said up there really has nothing to do with covenant at all. And @underlined, that's laughable, I am not denying having good heart but your Bible clearly said pork meat is unclean and you should not eat it. How is that correlate with covenant?. How is someone's heart be sound if he eat forbidden and unclean meats. We already talked about that in the link given earlier. Covenant is about: *******Worshiping God i:e correct religion - Islam *******Righteous conduct These are the covenant made with Abraham and his progeny. I providede the verse of the Quran earlier and here it is again. And (remember) when the Lord of Ibrahim (Abraham) [i.e., Allah] tried him with (certain) Commands, which he fulfilled. He (Allah) said (to him), "Verily, I am going to make you a leader (Prophet) of mankind." [Ibrahim (Abraham)] said, "And of my offspring (to make leaders)." (Allah) said, "My Covenant (Prophethood, etc.) includes not Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers)." I hope you ponder over the verse carefully. After Abraham(p) was tried (tested), he passed. And God said he would make him a leader. Read Abraham's statement. He asked Allah if He would make leaders from his offspring?. Allah replied that His (God) covenant is ONLY restricted to believers i:e those who obey and submit. This covenant is reiterated again in sura Israil (chpater 17 of the Quran). Children of Israel rejected God's commands to worship Him alone and to not eat certain food and obey God. But they always defiled God. The same thing you you here. You defiled God after Bible verse clearly said not to eat pork. At your own pace, go and study sura 17 of the Quran where covenant was made with children of Israel. They violated God's Commands by worshiping golden calf, consuming riba (usury), killing prophets, eating forbidden meats. Because of these, they violated covenants and therefore they are not entitled to the Holy Land. That's the covenant. Only those who keep the covenants(muslims) are entailed the Deed of the only Land. This subject is a little complex. |
Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 12:46pm On Feb 16, 2016 |
Scholar8200:Angels have various task. Jubril(Gabriel) alaiy salaam is what I termed "human affairs". That's his task. Other Angels have their various tasks as well. Angel Mikail(Michael), -in charge of rain, food etc Israfil - Trumpeter Asrail - Angel of death etc Jubril being the popular one and brought down the Quran is usually described as Holy Spirit or ruh. And sometimes, Quran specifically mentioned his name, Jubril. He was the same Angel who appeared to Mary(mother of Jesus) pace be upon her. He was the same Angel who appeared to Muhammad(peace be upon him) and other prophets and messangers. This is different from Angels dwelling inside of us as Christians opined. That is called nafs i:e soul. |
Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Scholar8200(m): 12:48pm On Feb 16, 2016 |
Empiree:What are Angels generally called in the Quran? |
Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 1:04pm On Feb 16, 2016 |
Scholar8200:Well, from Islamic perceptive, they were not forbidden certain food until they started to disobey God. Sura 3:93 "All food was lawful to the Children of Israel, except what Israel Made unlawful for itself, before the Law (of Moses) was revealed. Say: "Bring ye the Law and study it, if ye be men of truth." They used to be believers until after God saved them from pharaoh. Then they defiled Moses and God's command. It was then certain things are forbidden and they are cursed not only by God but also by Jesus and David (peace be upon them) This is when they used to believe and covenant was intact. "And We made from among them (Children of Israel), leaders, giving guidance under Our Command, when they were patient and used to believe with certainty in Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.)." - 32:24 And, indeed We gave Musa (Moses) the guidance, and We caused the Children of Israel to inherit the Scripture [i.e. the Taurat (Torah)], - 40:53 O Children of Israel! call to mind the special favour which I bestowed upon you, and that I preferred you to all others (for My Message). - 2:122 And after their persistence disbelieve and disobedience, they were cursed. "Those of the Children of Israel who went astray were cursed by the tongue of David, and of Jesus, son of Mary. That was because they rebelled and used to transgress." - 5:78 |
Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 1:05pm On Feb 16, 2016 |
Scholar8200:Malaikat |
Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Scholar8200(m): 1:07pm On Feb 16, 2016 |
Empiree:Regarding the highlighted, the writings of the prophets are there for all to see! We cannot edit that now and give terms based on our opinions!
The promise I have in mind is this that was passed from Abraham to Isaac: 18 and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice. 19 So Abraham returned unto his young men, and they rose Genesis 22:18 4 and I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; Genesis 26:4 This Seed that was to be a Blessing to the Whole World Is Jesus Christ! He is The Messenger of the Covenant and that is why He said: 28 for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. Matthew 26;28 The OT was a covenant but it also had to be sealed by blood: Exodus 24:7 8 And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord hath made with you concerning all these words. Meaning we cant talk of a Covenant without the Blood! Jesus said these defile: 19 Since it does not reach and enter his heart but [only his] digestive tract, and so passes on [into the place designed to receive waste]? Thus He was making and declaring all foods [ceremonially] clean [that is, [h]abolishing the ceremonial distinctions of the Levitical Law]. 20 And He said, What comes out of a man is what makes a man unclean and renders [him] unhallowed. 21 For from within, [that is] out of the hearts of men, come base and wicked thoughts, sexual immorality, stealing, murder, adultery, 22 Coveting (a greedy desire to have more wealth), dangerous and destructive wickedness, deceit; [i]unrestrained (indecent) conduct; an evil eye (envy), slander (evil speaking, malicious misrepresentation, abusiveness), pride ([j]the sin of an uplifted heart against God and man), foolishness (folly, lack of sense, recklessness, thoughtlessness). 23 All these evil [purposes and desires] come from within, and they make the man unclean and render him unhallowed. Mark 7:19-23 (AMPLIFIED) The Amplified expresses the shades and nuances not covered by the limitations of the English language: Now let's see the KJV of vs 19 19 because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats? As followers of Christ, this is where we stand!!! (And at least you can see that Paul was not contradicting Christ)! Now was that part in the original? Let's see: http://biblehub.com/interlinear/mark/7-19.htm 3754 [e] 19 hoti 19 ὅτι 19 because 19 Conj 3756 [e] ouk οὐκ not Adv 1531 [e] eisporeuetai εἰσπορεύεται it enters V-PIM/P-3S 846 [e] autou αὐτοῦ of him PPro-GM3S 1519 [e] eis εἰς into Prep 3588 [e] tēn τὴν the Art-AFS 2588 [e] kardian καρδίαν , heart N-AFS 235 [e] all’ ἀλλ’ but Conj 1519 [e] eis εἰς into Prep 3588 [e] tēn τὴν the Art-AFS 2836 [e] koilian κοιλίαν , belly N-AFS 2532 [e] kai καὶ and Conj 1519 [e] eis εἰς into Prep 3588 [e] ton τὸν the Art-AMS 856 [e] aphedrōna ἀφεδρῶνα draught N-AMS 1607 [e] ekporeuetai ἐκπορεύεται . goes out V-PIM/P-3S 2511 [e] katharizōn καθαρίζων purifying V-PPA-NMS 3956 [e] panta πάντα all Adj-ANP 3588 [e] ta τὰ the Art-ANP 1033 [e] brōmata βρώματα . food N-ANP The OT was not to be the final covenant. The key aspect of the framework - The Messiah - was left out and was still being expected! Every thing depended on God's timing . Meaning that the Covenant is more than possession of a holy Land or other material externals if we would be true to the framework viz: God's oath to Abraham! [/quote] |
Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Scholar8200(m): 1:09pm On Feb 16, 2016 |
Empiree:Then why the change when it got to Gabriel? |
Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Scholar8200(m): 1:12pm On Feb 16, 2016 |
Empiree:But the covenant of the OT was officially courted after they left Egypt as seen in Exodus 24:7,8 7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient. 8 And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord hath made with you concerning all these words. They could not have kept the Covenant in egypt since all these took place after they had left Egypt!
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Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 1:32pm On Feb 16, 2016 |
Scholar8200:Listen, let me do a little breakdown. When it comes to specific tasks, Quran either mentions specific name of the Angel or prophet. It also uses general term like messenger for Angel Gabriel. It depends on the wordings. For instance, "....then We sent her our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects. — Quran, sura 19 (Maryam), ayat 17 If we want further research, we look into tafsir(explanation) to see which Angel God is talking about. And that is Gabriel talking about in this verse Similarly, angels also came to ʾIbrāhīm (Abraham) in human form, and he was not aware that they were angels until they told him so. Lūṭ (Lot) also had angels come to him to warn him of the impending doom of his people. All angels praise and glorify God and they never become tired of doing this. They celebrate His praises night and day, nor do they ever flag or intermit. — Quran, sura 21 (Al-Anbiya), ayah 20 Also mentioned them by general terms in this verse. "O ye who believe! save yourselves and your families from a Fire whose fuel is Men and Stones, over which are (appointed) angels stern (and) severe, who flinch not (from executing) the Commands they receive from Allah, but do (precisely) what they are commanded. — Quran, sura 66 (At-Tahrim), ayah Here they are called messangers. The Quran also mentions that angels have qualities that may be typified by the word wings: "Praise be to Allah, Who created (out of nothing) the heavens and the earth, Who made the angels, messengers with wings,- two, or three, or four (pairs):... — Quran, sura 35 (Fatir) ayah The preceding sentence does not imply that all angels have two to four wings. Most notably, archangels (namely Gabriel and Michael) are described as having thousands of wings. According to hadith collected by Muhammad al-Bukhari, Muhammad said that Gabriel possessed 600 wings; Narrated Abu Ishaq-Ash-Shaibani: I asked Zir bin Hubaish regarding the Statement of Allah: "And was at a distance Of but two bow-lengths Or (even) nearer; So did (Allah) convey The Inspiration to His slave (Gabriel) and then he (Gabriel) Conveyed (that to Muhammad). (53.9-10)[13] On that, Zir said, "Ibn Mas'ud informed us that the Prophet had seen Gabriel having 600 wings." Does this sound like "angel" that dwells in you as Christians believe?. What I am trying to tell you is that Allah mentions Angel directly and indirectly in the Quran. For instance, Gabriel (Jibreel) and Michael (Meekaal) are mentioned early on the Quran in sura Al-Baqarah: "Say: Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel-for he brings down the (revelation) to thy heart by Allah's will, a confirmation of what went before, and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe,- Whoever is an enemy to Allah and His angels and messengers, to Gabriel and Michael,- Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith. — Quran, sura 2 (Al-Baqara) ayat 97-98 Another angel, Maalik is defined in the Quran as a being who is the warden of Hell. However Maalik is not an evil angel, nor a fallen one, a notion Islam rejects, rather Maalik is merely doing what he is commanded to do by God. "They will cry: "O Malik! would that thy Lord put an end to us!" He will say, "Nay, but ye shall abide!" — Quran, sura 43 (Az-Zukhruf ) ayah 77 2 Likes |
Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Maxxy010(m): 1:56pm On Feb 16, 2016 |
Jesus is the Word of God,He doesn't need to read the bible,because He's God and remember each time Jesus quote the bible,He's always saying it is written. |
Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Scholar8200(m): 2:38pm On Feb 16, 2016 |
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Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Scholar8200(m): 2:40pm On Feb 16, 2016 |
Empiree: Now why is it that when Gabriel was sent to Mary he was called,"... our angel, and [color=#990000]he appeared before her as a man in all respects" But why the change in nomenclature such that he was called the Holy Spirit? Is it that: 1. He was so called when he appeared to Mary because he was in the form of a man; and 2. He was so called when he appeared to Muhammed because he came as a spirit? Now ,since Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit in John 14 & 15 and Holy Spirit is called in the Aramaic Bible (Aramaic being the language Jesus spoke) Holy Spirit or Ghost in Syriac Aramaic is [b]Rukha d'qudsha. Rukha is spirit ,d'qudsha is holy. {You will agree with me that this is very similar to the arabic Ruh al-Qudus) 1. Why do muslims claim the Holy Spirit is Muhammed if the Quran says it's Gabriel? 2. Why would Jesus promise to send an angel who already heralded His birth? |
Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 3:19am On Feb 17, 2016 |
Scholar8200:It is called possessive noun/pronoun. But why the change in nomenclature such that he was called the Holy Spirit? This is very simple by using simple analogy. God can use any description for His Angels where He deemed fit. He owns them. Just like some things have different names. *****Tylenol is also called by its scientific name, Acetaminophen. *****Docusate is also called stool softener, colace ETC Is it that:He appeared to Muhammad(p) in form of a man as well and even to some others as reported in ahadith. A narration attributed to Umar reports: [b]While we were one day sitting with the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings of Allah upon him, there appeared before us a man dressed in extremely white clothes and with very black hair. No traces of travel were visible on him, and none of us knew him. He sat down close by the Prophet, peace and blessings upon him, rested his knees against his knees and placed his palms on his thighs, and said, O Muhammad! Inform me about Islam." Muhammad said, "Islam is that you should testify that there is no deity save Allah and that Muhammad is His Messenger, that you should perform salah (ritual prayer), pay the zakah (alms), fast during Ramadan, and perform Hajj (pilgrimage) to the House (the Ka'bah at Makkah), if you can find a way to it (or find the means for making the journey to it)." Said he (the man), "You have spoken truly." We were astonished at his thus questioning him and telling him that he was right, but he went on to say, "Inform me about Iman (faith)." He (the Messenger of Allah) answered, "It is that you believe in Allah and His angels and His Books and His Messengers and in the Last Day, and in fate (qadar), both in its good and in its evil aspects." He said, "You have spoken truly." Then he (the man) said, "Inform me about Ihsan." He (the Messenger of Allah) answered, " It is that you should serve Allah as though you could see Him, for though you cannot see Him yet He sees you." He said, "Inform me about the Hour (time of the resurrection)." He (the Messenger of Allah) said, "About that the one questioned knows no more than the questioner." So he said, "Well, inform me about the signs thereof (i.e. of its coming)." Said he, "They are that the slave-girl will give birth to her mistress, that you will see the barefooted ones, the naked, the destitute, the herdsmen of the sheep (competing with each other) in raising lofty buildings." Thereupon the man went off. I waited a while, and then he (the Messenger of Allah) said, "O 'Umar, do you know who that questioner was?" I replied, "Allah and His Messenger know better." He said, "That was Jibril. He came to teach you your religion." [Muslim][/b] Narrated 'Aisha: "...Sometimes the Angel comes in the form of a man and talks to me and I grasp whatever he says."...Sahih Bukhari 1:1:2 Now ,since Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit in John 14 & 15 and Holy Spirit is called in the Aramaic Bible (Aramaic being the language Jesus spoke)This is a common debate btw the two Faiths. First all, from Islamic point of view, every human being has two Angels on our shoulders recording our deeds. Thats their assignment. These are not Jubril(Gabriel). Christians claim "Holy Spirit" i:e Gabriel is the one with them, consider descriptions of Gabriel as described by prophet Muhammad(p) as having 600 wings. Where the heck is that in you? Discriptions of Angel Jubril Narrated ASSAILANT: ..."Abdullah (bin Mas'ud) informed us that Muhammad had seen Gabriel with six hundred wings." Sahih Bukhari 6:60:380 I'd rather let rilwayne001, tola9ja deal with you on whether John 14, 15 is Muhammad (p) or not. I am not really interested in that debate at this time. 2. Why would Jesus promise to send an angel who already heralded His birth?This is to show you Jesus(p) was not talking about sending "Holy Spirit"(Gabriel). Gabriel already existed long before humans were created. It was same Angel Gabriel who appeared to his mom, Mary(as). Why would he want to send an Angel that already heralded?. 4 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Scholar8200(m): 8:57am On Feb 17, 2016 |
Empiree:Actually what I wanted to know was why, since Gabriel appeared to both as a man, why was he called with the generic name -angel- while for the other he was called with a special name and the definite article -The- was used meaning there was only one of his kind? [Quran 2:87] "And We did certainly give Moses the Torah and followed up after him with messengers. And We gave Jesus, the son of Mary, clear proofs and supported him with the Pure Spirit. But is it [not] that every time a messenger came to you, [O Children of Israel], with what your souls did not desire, you were arrogant? And a party [of messengers] you denied and another party you killed". Moreover, can you give instances when Gabriel supported Jesus' Ministry? Basic Grammar tells us the article - the - shows there is only one of that kind eg Jesus is the Messiah meaning we cannot have more than one! How do we relate this to Gabriel who is not the only angel? Alright to the highlighted text. Meaning the personality He was sending was neither Gabriel nor a man! Else, this is the implication: 1. Only God has the capacity to say,"I will send so and so" not from the Earth but from Heaven" Therefore if Jesus was referring to Mohammed (which of course He wasnt) then He is the Son of God and Essentially One with Him! NO prophet at any age EVER used that sentence of promising to send someone from Heaven! Highest they did eg Moses was to appoint a successor on earth! 2. If Jesus was referring to Mohammed, then Jesus is far more than a prophet! Whosoever is sent is answerable to Him that sent him! Note that Jesus said He will send such an One in His Name, just as He came in the Father's Name! Think on these! |
Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by feeltee: 10:30am On Feb 17, 2016 |
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Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 1:47am On Feb 18, 2016 |
Scholar8200: [Quran 2:87]To be honest, this verse of Quran you quoted is self explanatory. Let's keep this simple. Malaika Jibreel (Angel Gabriel) is beloved by Allah. Their relationship is beyond human comprehension. We see throughout Quran that Angel Gabriel(as) had been commissioned since beginning of time. So he was addressed appropriately where and when Allah deemed fit. Allah addresses or calls his by different titles. However, I do have to commend you for your sincere thought. Your questions are legitimate. When readers of the Qur’an hear the words “holy spirit,” they equate this expression with the Arabic, ruh-ul qudus. There are several Qur’anic passages that use this expression, but they do not clearly identify what or who this ruh-ul qudus is. One of those passages is the following as rendered in Yusuf Ali’s world-renowned translation: Say: the Holy Spirit (ruh-ul qudus) has brought the revelation from thy Lord in truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide, and glad tidings to Muslims. —Surat-un Nahl (16):102 Most Muslims believe this ruh-ul qudus to be Gabriel. Because he is an angel, they know that he is a spirit; and because he transmits the Word of Allah, he is in a special sense a very holy spirit. There are other passages, however, where the expression ruh-ul qudus is not as easily interpreted. For example, there are three Qur’anic passages that use the expression “holy spirit” in reference to the ministry of Isa Al-Masih. "We gave Jesus, the son of Mary, clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the Holy Spirit (ruh-ul qudus)." —Surat-ul Baqara (2): 87 To Jesus the son of Mary, We gave clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the Holy Spirit (ruh-ul qudus). —Surat-ul Baqara (2): 253 Then Allah will say: “O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount my favor to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the Holy Spirit (ruh-ul qudus).…” —Surat-ul Ma’ida (5): 110 Today, the common opinion is that the ruh-ul qudus of these verses refer again to the angel Gabriel. But according to the opinions of the early classical interpreters, such as Ibn Zayd, Ibn Abbas and Ibn Anas, and later confirmed by al-Baidawi (d.685/1282), in these passages ruh-ul qudus was understood in a variety of ways. Other interpretations included: 1. the spirit that Allah breathed into Isa; 2. the Injil that Allah sent down to Isa; and 3. the one name of Allah that superceded all others, which Isa invoked to perform miracles, such as raising the dead. In each of these instances, ruh-ul qudus was interpreted to be something more profound than an angel; it was something that was of Allah and that came down from Allah. Furthermore, in each of the above three passages, this holy spirit came to give strength to Allah’s servant. This idea is conveyed iN yet another verse of the Qur’an that speaks of believers fully devoted to Allah: "He [Allah] has written faith in their hearts, and strengthened them with a spirit from Himself (ruh min hu)." —Surat-ul Mujadila (58): 22 Yusuf Ali, in his commentary for this verse, says the following: Here we learn that all good and righteous men are strengthened by Allah with the holy spirit. If anything, the phrase used here is stronger, “a spirit from Himself.” When anyone offers his heart in faith and purity to Allah, Allah accepts it, engraves that Faith on the seeker’s heart, and further fortifies him with the divine spirit, which we can no more define adequately than we can define in human language the nature and attributes of Allah. Notice Yusuf Ali’s description of this spirit as “the divine spirit.”Again we see a reference to something that is of Allah, comes from Allah and comes to strengthen. We have already seen references of Isa Al-Masih being strengthened, but this is the only verse in the entire Qur’an that speaks about the common believer being strengthened by the Spirit of Allah. I definitely concur with Yusuf Ali's theory. This subject leads us to subject of Islamic epistemology, which is grounded in sufism (the spiritual heart of Islam). The word Ruh (spirit) is very complex and can never be fully understood by human. Quran itself confirms that. In a story recorded by Al-Bukhari in his Tafsir of this Ayah that `Abdullah bin Mas`ud said, "While I was walking with the Prophet on a farm, and he was resting on a palm-leaf stalk, some Jews passed by. Some of them said to the others, `Ask him about the Ruh.' Some of them said, `What urges you to ask him about that' Others said, `Do not ask him, lest he gives you a reply which you do not like.' But they said, `Ask him.' So they asked him about the Ruh. The Prophet kept quiet and did not give them an answer, and I knew that he was receiving revelation, so I stayed where I was. When the revelation was complete, the Prophet said: [size=20pt]وَيَسْـَلُونَكَ عَنِ الرُّوحِ قُلِ الرُّوحُ مِنْ أَمْرِ رَبِّى[/size] (And they ask you concerning the Ruh (the spirit). Say: "The Ruh (the spirit) is one of the things, the knowledge of which is only with my Lord...'') Surah 17:85 The people of dhirk i:e muslims who invokes Allah a lot (remembrance of God), they know some few things about RUH. Ruh is definitely not only Gabriel, the word is used variably in the Quran. Ruh, according to the people of dhikr, are inside of every human being apart from the two Angels on our shoulders. Only through the remembrance of Allah we can activate it. There is a lot more to this. I'd better leave this as it is. What is inappropriate is to say Jesus is God just because Allah breaths His ruh in him. Nowhere in the Bible Jesus claim to be God. Point is even if John 14 and 15 claim Holy Spirit to be sent later, this spirit already existed long before Jesus(p). And the "spirit" mentioned would be visible and his message would abide with mankind forever. THE ANGEL JIBREEL IN THE QURÁN AND SUNNAH https://foreverislamic./2012/09/21/the-angel-jibreel-in-the-quran-and-sunnah/ Basic Grammar tells us the article - the - shows there is only one of that kind eg Jesus is the Messiah meaning we cannot have more than one! How do we relate this to Gabriel who is not the only angel?There is no doubt that this is a critical spiritual truth that must be explored. To learn more about this experience, we need to consult the scriptures of the Injil, which has much to say about this important matter. First, notice the wording in the following Injil selection, which is similar to what we found in Surat-ul Mujadila (58):22: "I pray that out of his glorious riches He (Allah) may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being…." —Injil, Ephesians 3:16 Meaning the personality He was sending was neither Gabriel nor a man! Else, this is the implication:Refer to surah 17:85 1. Only God has the capacity to say,"I will send so and so" not from the Earth but from Heaven" Therefore if Jesus was referring to Mohammed (which of course He wasnt) then He is the Son of God and Essentially One with Him! NO prophet at any age EVER used that sentence of promising to send someone from Heaven! Highest they did eg Moses was to appoint a successor on earth!If that is the case, why is nature of Jesus so complicated to many Christians?. If you conclude that because of underlined he must be God, then, i can easily mention some christians right here on NL to argue with you otherwise. I will sit behind and eat popcorn while i watch. Quran is very clear: "O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah aught but the truth. The Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Ruh) created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allah is (the only) One Ilah (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs." Sura 004:171 Why is the verse ^ difficult for you to swallow?. Where did Jesus say he is God because he has the power to send holy spirit?. That's just your assumption 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by AlMuflihah(f): 7:54am On Feb 18, 2016 |
malvisguy212:Who can be one's closest companions if not one's wife/wives, relatives And friends ![]() The Angel of Revelation, Jibreel (Gabriel), who is recognized by all the People of the Book [Jews and Christians], came to him, and when he received revelation, there were unusual effects on him that indicated the intensity of the effort involved in receiving the Message of Allaah from Jibreel, upon whom be peace. His Companions witnessed this when he received Revelation, and they believed that the revelation was something that came from an outside source and was beyond his control; it came to him from (Allaah), the Wise and Praiseworthy. Allaah supported the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) with physical miracles, with which he challenged his people. Among the most important of these were the splitting of the moon and the Night Journey to Bayt al-Maqdis (Jerusalem). They were unable to match these miracles, and so they were a decisive, divine testimony to the truth of his Prophethood (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Allaah supported him with miracles and evidence for people of reason and understanding, the greatest of which was the Qur’aan. This was the greatest sign, which contains in its pages miracles of both style and content, which all of mankind cannot match or imitate, even if they gather together for that purpose. This is clear from the statements of the most eloquent of the Arabs, who were completely unable to match it. The Qur’aan was – and centuries later still is, praise be to Allaah – an eternal miracle as is evident in its brilliant style, its information about the Unseen, its fulfilment of the promises of Allaah, the superiority of its laws, and the fact that its rulings are appropriate for every time and place – in addition to the fact that it has such a moving impact on people’s hearts. The Qur’aan refers to the signs and proofs surrounding the person of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), which testify to his truthfulness. For example, he was free of sin and trivial spitefulness; he grew up illiterate in the Arabian Peninsula, and did not receive any religious knowledge from beyond its borders, nor did he spend time acquiring any religious knowledge. When he reached the age of forty, he brought divine knowledge that none of the earlier or later generations could produce. He also received special protection and care from Allaah, which kept him safe at times of crisis; if it were not for this protection he would most certainly have been doomed to destruction. None of this could have happened except to one who was truly sent from Allaah. His coming was foretold in the Tawraat (Torah) and Injeel (Gospel), and some of the People of the Book saw that these prophecies applied in totality to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), which led them to embrace Islam. There are still passages in the Bible, in both the Old and New Testaments, in the versions that are accepted by the People of the Book, that clearly refer to the prophethood of muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam |
Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by AlMuflihah(f): 8:05am On Feb 18, 2016 |
malvisguy212: Allah the Mighty in the qur'an says Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “By the star when it goes down (or vanishes). Your companion (Muhammad) has neither gone astray nor has erred. Nor does he speak of (his own) desire. It is only a Revelation revealed. He has been taught (this Qur’aan) by one mighty in power [Jibreel (Gabriel)].” [al-Najm 53:1-5] The mufassireen (commentators on the Qur’aan) have stated that what is meant by “one mighty in power” is Jibreel (peace be upon him), who taught Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) the Revelation. One of the ways in which Revelation happened is when the angel spoke directly to the Prophet. This indicates that Jibreel (peace be upon him) spoke to Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). This idea is also supported by the aayahs (interpretation of the meaning): “And truly, this (the Qur’aan) is a revelation from the Lord of the ‘Aalameen (mankind, jinn and all that exists), Which the trustworthy Rooh [Jibreel (Gabriel)] has brought down Upon your heart (O Muhammad) that you may be (one) of the warners, In the plain Arabic language” [al-Shu’araa’ 26:192-195] “Say (O Muhammad): “Whoever is an enemy to Jibreel (Gabriel) (let him die in his fury), for indeed he has brought it (this Qur’aan) down to your heart by Allaah’s Permission, confirming what came before it [i.e. the Tauraat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] and guidance and glad tidings for the believers” [al-Baqarah 2:97] 2. The First Revelation, as is well known, happened when the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was in seclusion in the cave of Hiraa’. Jibreel (peace be upon him) came to him and commanded him to read. It was narrated that ‘Aa’ishah the Mother of the Believers (may Allaah be pleased with her) said: “The first of the Wahy (Revelation) that came to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was seeing true dreams; he never saw any dream but it came true like the break of day. Then the love of seclusion was bestowed upon him. He used to go into seclusion in the cave of Hiraa’ where he would worship Allaah continuously for many nights, until he went back to see his family to collect more provisions. He would go back to Khadeejah, and take provisions with him for a similar number of nights. (This went on) until the truth came to him when he was in the cave of Hiraa’. The angels came to him and said, ‘Read!’ He said, ‘I am not a reader.’ He [the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)] said: he embraced me and squeezed me so hard that I almost could bear it no longer, then he released me and said, ‘Read!’ I said, I am not a reader.’ Then he embraced me a second time and squeezed me so hard that I almost could bear it no longer, then he released me and said, ‘Read!’ I said, I am not a reader.’ Then he embraced me a third time and squeezed me so hard that I almost could bear it no longer, then he released me and said, ‘Read! In the Name of your Lord Who has created (all that exists). He has created man from a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood). Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous.’ [al-‘Alaq 96:1-3 – interpretation of the meaning]. Then the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) came back with (the Revelation) and with his heart pounding wildly.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, no. 3; Muslim, no. 231). ...may Allah open your hearts to the truth. Ameen but only if u are ready to learn... u'll find the truth in Islam and embrace it...try use ur brain okay! 2 Likes |
Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by AlMuflihah(f): 8:13am On Feb 18, 2016 |
Rilwayne001: Abi oo...na so we see am...d gospel was revealed to jesus to preach and he told his disciples to preach it also... not that contrasting and contradictory book (bible) that they prech today ![]() |
Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by AlMuflihah(f): 8:22am On Feb 18, 2016 |
truthman2012: Allah gave jesus the gospel (injeel)... BT dats diff from all doz stories written by different unknown authors in that book u call d bible |
Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Scholar8200(m): 8:45am On Feb 18, 2016 |
AlMuflihah:ALright , give us the details of the Injeel since you have been able to establish that the ones in the 4 gospels are stories. |
Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Scholar8200(m): 9:22am On Feb 18, 2016 |
Empiree:Compare this with: ANd since the Spirit here is not Gabriel, I believe this Spirit has a relationship with God far deeper than that of Gabriel who is a malaika.A Spirit from Himself selah! How can that be since he was also created? Does that apply to the rest angels too? But the definite article shows there has to be only One of that Kind. Could Gabriel's errands make him holier than the other malaikas? So which do you accept? Indeed. Why is that? What position is the color highlighted text in relation to Allah? That is the human spirit as distinct from the Holy Spirit as we know Him. Now if we take the second understanding of the Mysterious Ruh Al-Qudus that refers not to Gabriel but to the Spirit that proceed from God and that is associated with Strength, is there any doubt that this is perfectly correct: 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. Luke 1:35 But He clearly declared that He was One with the Father! Jesus did not say the message would abide forever He clearly said He - the Holy Spirit- will abide with the believers forever. Besides, the Holy Spirit was to be sent in Christ's Name and indwell believers-two things He never did up till that time! In the past the Spirit was sent only to Kings and Prophets and that not permanently. But now He would be coming to indwell all believers! See the difference? And the next verse says: that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love Ephesians 3:17 That is what it means when He says the Spirit will be sent in His NAme. He indwells believers in Christ's NAme! [quote[ If that is the case, why is nature of Jesus so complicated to many Christians?. If you conclude that because of underlined he must be God, then, i can easily mention some chrstian right here on NL to argue with you otherwise. I will sit behind and eat popcorn while i watch. [/quote] Well, where are they? Jesus further clarified that He was Lord and One with the Father as the Pre-Incarnated One when He said-before Abraham was I am! Consider carefully the Man that came in the company of two angels in Genesis 18 to whom Abraham made intercession being called the LORD! Consider that Genesis 18 carefully and ask who was the third Man called LORD and , like you just mentioned, Who is the Spirit that proceeds from God? Surely you agreed He is not an angel. (for the records only, not related to thread) If we say the God is One and that He is Three In One and that it is a mystery which we believe, Muslims mock, however there are instances in your reply where those you quoted implied that there were mysteries even they could not explain! |
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