madammamus: Did I say angels intercede? How does my post relate to your intercession talk? You know what? When it comes this Mary issue, I don't discuss it online because people do not like to let go even when it's true...its a revelation/insight thing not an argument thing...just like the bible isn't what you understand with a carnal mind but a mind that submits to the holy spirit for understanding, counselling, and insight.
Shalom...am out of here
U are rite, because u tink u are rite wit ur points, while d oda person is also thinkin he is rite wit his own proof
Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother"
(Mt 12:46-50; see also Mark 3:31-35; Lk 8:19-21)
from the above you can see that whoever do the will of GOD has the same access to JESUS...as mary.or. anthony of padua or st. cecilia etc
if you want to continue in idolatry it is up to u....
.STUDY THE BIBLE BY YOURSELF......
Go through the NEW TESTAMENT ON UR OWN AM SURE THE EYES OF UR UNDERSTANDING WILL BE ENLIGHTENED
If Raphael is only found in the Catholic bible, then why are you asking "me" if I believe in him? Moses had died, Mary also have died, the only one that lives is the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit pray to Him. Mary can't save you, only Christ can. Why worship the dead? why pray to them? Jesus said let the dead bury the dead.
because if Raphael is nt found in ur bible bt only catholic bible yer u bliv, u ll also agree wit me what hapd 2 Moses wen e interceded 4 d israelites, y can't mary interced
That's a pity, because sometimes we can learn a great deal learning other peoples work, it's amazing how the stories can fit in, When I read the bible, and I wan't some kind of a clear view on it, I watch a movie of Christ, or the actor I am searching for.
ewosk: Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother"
(Mt 12:46-50; see also Mark 3:31-35; Lk 8:19-21)
from the above you can see that whoever do the will of GOD has the same access to JESUS...as mary.or. anthony of padua or st. cecilia etc
if you want to continue in idolatry it is up to u....
.STUDY THE BIBLE BY YOURSELF......
Go through the NEW TESTAMENT ON UR OWN AM SURE THE EYES OF UR UNDERSTANDING WILL BE ENLIGHTENED
Bt Xam Jesus on d cross gave his mother 2 d disciples. Note since according 2 d bible " dey took mary as dia mother"
brocab: That's a pity, because sometimes we can learn a great deal learning other peoples work, it's amazing how the stories can fit in, When I read the bible, and I wan't some kind of a clear view on it, I watch a movie of Christ, or the actor I am searching for.
I do watch smtims, though nt all d time, nd according 2 u, I learnt a lot
brocab: If Raphael is only found in the Catholic bible, then why are you asking "me" if I believe in him? Moses had died, Mary also have died, the only one that lives is the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit pray to Him. Mary can't save you, only Christ can. Why worship the dead? why pray to them? Jesus said let the dead bury the dead.
Did u read d book of Revelation on Hw d tim dey wanted 2 open d seal? Hw d prayers of d saints worked?
Bt Xam Jesus on d cross gave his mother 2 d disciples. Note since according 2 d bible " dey took mary as dia mother"
State where in the bible after JESUS death where Mary was mentioned......All through the time of JESUS resurrection down.to. the apostolic ministry of Paul even the letters of St. Peter where an activity was attributed to mary......if you like continue in the veil that hqs been bestowed on you... read the scripture wll.....son is different from sons......
State where in the bible after JESUS death where Mary was mentioned......All through the time of JESUS resurrection down.to. the apostolic ministry of Paul even the letters of St. Peter where an activity was attributed to mary......if you like continue in the veil that hqs been bestowed on you... read the scripture wll.....son is different from sons......
bt y ll Jesus give d mother 2 d disciples if e dn't no d value of a mother?
This really puzzles me, the Catholic's have the bible in front of them, they call themselves Christians, and yet with the first chance they get they try to persuade others to believe in a doctrine, that has nothing to do with the word of God. Matthew 6:6 "But when you pray, go into your room close the door and pray, to your Father, who is unseen, Then your Father who see's what is done in secret will reward you. How simple is that. The bible nowhere mentions anyone asking for someone in heaven to pray for them, the bible nowhere describes anyone in heaven praying for anyone on earth. God doesn't answer prayers based on who is praying. God answers prayers based on whether they are asking according to His will. 1 John 5:14-15 "And this is the confidence that we have toward Him, that if we ask anything according to His will He hears us. And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests, that we have asked of Him. There is no obsoletely no bases or need to pray to anyone other then God alone. There is no bases for asking for those who are in heaven to pray for us. Only God can hear our prayers, only God can answer our prayers. No-one in heaven had any greater access to God's throne than we do through prayer Hebrews 4:16 " Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need. Catholic's argue that praying to Mary and the saints is the same as asking someone here on earth to pray for us. The apostle Paul asks other Christians to pray for him in Ephesians 6:19 many scriptures describe believers praying for one another 2 Corinthians 1:11 Ephesians 1:16 Philippians 1:19 2 Timothy 1:3. The bible nowhere mentions anyone asking for someone in heaven to pray for them, the bible nowhere describes anyone in heaven praying for anyone on earth. Only Jesus is our mediator between God and man. Revelation 6:9 "The saints were not praying for us, they said How long" O lord will you avenge our blood on the earth Jesus said you shall rest a little while longer until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed. This scripture DOES NOT tell us the saints are praying for us.
I was watching a video, the other day and the story was about a young girl at the age of 8 years old, she said, after she was prayed for, she laid down on the Churches floor, and while she was lying there, she felt the lord had appeared in a vision, and the lord had taken her spirit out of her body to show her heaven and hell. This had opened up a new beginning, my eye's have opened up, clearly for me to understand the truth about the Catholic Church even more. While seeing the beautiful cities in heaven, the Lord had then taken the young Girl to meet Mary, the 8 year old girl said Mary was crying for Her people here on Earth, Mary asked the little girl to post a message, so the world could hear the truth about herself and Christ. And this is how it go's.
brocab: This really puzzles me, the Catholic's have the bible in front of them, they call themselves Christians, and yet with the first chance they get they try to persuade others to believe in a doctrine, that has nothing to do with the word of God. Matthew 6:6 "But when you pray, go into your room close the door and pray, to your Father, who is unseen, Then your Father who see's what is done in secret will reward you. How simple is that. The bible nowhere mentions anyone asking for someone in heaven to pray for them, the bible nowhere describes anyone in heaven praying for anyone on earth. God doesn't answer prayers based on who is praying. God answers prayers based on whether they are asking according to His will. 1 John 5:14-15 "And this is the confidence that we have toward Him, that if we ask anything according to His will He hears us. And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests, that we have asked of Him. There is no obsoletely no bases or need to pray to anyone other then God alone. There is no bases for asking for those who are in heaven to pray for us. Only God can hear our prayers, only God can answer our prayers. No-one in heaven had any greater access to God's throne than we do through prayer Hebrews 4:16 " Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need. Catholic's argue that praying to Mary and the saints is the same as asking someone here on earth to pray for us. The apostle Paul asks other Christians to pray for him in Ephesians 6:19 many scriptures describe believers praying for one another 2 Corinthians 1:11 Ephesians 1:16 Philippians 1:19 2 Timothy 1:3. The bible nowhere mentions anyone asking for someone in heaven to pray for them, the bible nowhere describes anyone in heaven praying for anyone on earth. Only Jesus is our mediator between God and man. Revelation 6:9 "The saints were not praying for us, they said How long" O lord will you avenge our blood on the earth Jesus said you shall rest a little while longer until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed. This scripture DOES NOT tell us the saints are praying for us.
Mat 18;10 "see do nt despise one of these little ones. For I tel u dt in heaven their Angels always c the face of my Father who is in heaven." what is Jesus trying 2 say " intercession" look again Rev 5;8 rev 8:3-4,
brocab: I was watching a video, the other day and the story was about a young girl at the age of 8 years old, she said, after she was prayed for, she laid down on the Churches floor, and while she was lying there, she felt the lord had appeared in a vision, and the lord had taken her spirit out of her body to show her heaven and hell. This had opened up a new beginning, my eye's have opened up, clearly for me to understand the truth about the Catholic Church even more. While seeing the beautiful cities in heaven, the Lord had then taken the young Girl to meet Mary, the 8 year old girl said Mary was crying for Her people here on Earth, Mary asked the little girl to post a message, so the world could hear the truth about herself and Christ. And this is how it go's.
Do u even bliv all dis people? Linda cam dt God did dis nd did dt, nd made many people to sel all dey hv nd repented instantly bt wen d rapture refuses 2 com, dey went dia old ways. My broda dose wu say God showed me dis or dt I dn't bliv dem. Check d parable of Jesus Christ abt the Rich man. Dese people are just playing wit God because people ll know dem nd dey ll make moni
Acts 2:17 "In the last days God says I will pour out My Spirit on all people. Your Sons and your Daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. So yes to your answer' I do believe in visions, dreams and prophesies, as long as they match up with the word of God. And I believe the lord had given me enough discernment having wisdom and the knowledge under my belt, this gives me the strength, to stand fern in the word of God. Of course you haven't watched this video, and you may not watch any video, nor read the word of God, but theirs going to be a day in your life, when these prophesies, visions and dreams had come to past. What then?
Do u even bliv all dis people? Linda cam dt God did dis nd did dt, nd made many people to sel all dey hv nd repented instantly bt wen d rapture refuses 2 com, dey went dia old ways. My broda dose wu say God showed me dis or dt I dn't bliv dem. Check d parable of Jesus Christ abt the Rich man. Dese people are just playing wit God because people ll know dem nd dey ll make moni
Listen I have answered this question before, it shows you don't read what I have written, don't you know any of the bible? Praying to the saints is strictly Catholic. The bible nowhere instructs us to pray to anyone other then God. Revelation 19:10 "At this I fell at his feet TO WORSHIP HIM. And he said unto me, see that you do not that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. WORSHIP GOD! For the testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of prophesy. Colossians 2:18 "Let no-one cheat you of your reward, taken delight in false humility and worship of angels intruding into those things, which he has not, seen vainly puffed up by His fleshly mind.
In addiction to all this, praying to dead saints today assumes the doctrines of immortal soul, which many people are surprised to find its not taught in the bible. The bible teaches us death is like sleep that last until the resurrection of Jesus's second coming. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-16.
Mat 18;10 "see do nt despise one of these little ones. For I tel u dt in heaven their Angels always c the face of my Father who is in heaven." what is Jesus trying 2 say " intercession" look again Rev 5;8 rev 8:3-4,
brocab: Acts 2:17 "In the last days God says I will pour out My Spirit on all people. Your Sons and your Daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. So yes to your answer' I do believe in visions, dreams and prophesies, as long as they match up with the word of God. And I believe the lord had given me enough discernment having wisdom and the knowledge under my belt, this gives me the strength, to stand fern in the word of God. Of course you haven't watched this video, and you may not watch any video, nor read the word of God, but theirs going to be a day in your life, when these prophesies, visions and dreams had come to past. What then?
Depends on ur bliv, bt I dn't feel like because many false men of God ll say Lord, I cast out demon, I prophecy in ur name, I saw vision bt God ll say I dn't knw u. Even those wu claims he told dem dis or dt, dn't 4get he ll use Xam word
brocab: Listen I have answered this question before, it shows you don't read what I have written, don't you know any of the bible? Praying to the saints is strictly Catholic. The bible nowhere instructs us to pray to anyone other then God. Revelation 19:10 "At this I fell at his feet TO WORSHIP HIM. And he said unto me, see that you do not that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. WORSHIP GOD! For the testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of prophesy. In dis case, worship is different 4rm intercession, we are nt suppose 2 worship dem because dey are nt God bt asking dem 2 pray 4 us is nt bad Colossians 2:18 "Let no-one cheat you of your reward, taken delight in false humility and worship of angels intruding into those things, which he has not, seen vainly puffed up by His fleshly mind.
In addiction to all this, praying to dead saints today assumes the doctrines of immortal soul, which many people are surprised to find its not taught in the bible. The bible teaches us death is like sleep that last until the resurrection of Jesus's second coming. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-16.
Though u bliv is only catholics dt blivs in praying 2ru saints or Mary.
Then its best for you to hide away, and when the lord asks you what are you doing, you could say I don't believe people can cast out demons in your name, prophesy in your name, nor see visions, nor dream dreams. Jesus said by their fruit you will know them, He also says test the spirits weather they are of God, meaning to say, don't judge a book by its cover, if someone has a vision and it matches up with the word of God, then believe it. And in the last days God said He will pour out His Spirit, that your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, and your old men will dream dreams. And everything that's written that matches up with prophesies I believe. Poor old you, never knowing the truth, never testing the spirits of God, never becoming a born again Christian. You believe in a man made doctrine that doesn't belong to any truth written in the bible.
Depends on ur bliv, bt I dn't feel like because many false men of God ll say Lord, I cast out demon, I prophecy in ur name, I saw vision bt God ll say I dn't knw u. Even those wu claims he told dem dis or dt, dn't 4get he ll use Xam word
brocab: Listen I have answered this question before, it shows you don't read what I have written, don't you know any of the bible? Praying to the saints is strictly Catholic. The bible nowhere instructs us to pray to anyone other then God. Revelation 19:10 "At this I fell at his feet TO WORSHIP HIM. And he said unto me, see that you do not that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. WORSHIP GOD! For the testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of prophesy. In dis case, worship is different 4rm intercession, we are nt suppose 2 worship dem because dey are nt God bt asking dem 2 pray 4 us is nt bad Colossians 2:18 "Let no-one cheat you of your reward, taken delight in false humility and worship of angels intruding into those things, which he has not, seen vainly puffed up by His fleshly mind.
In addiction to all this, praying to dead saints today assumes the doctrines of immortal soul, which many people are surprised to find its not taught in the bible. The bible teaches us death is like sleep that last until the resurrection of Jesus's second coming. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-16.
Though u bliv is only catholics dt blivs in praying 2ru saints or Mary. Bt in dt case u mentioned abt Angel replying am a fellow servant like u, I c it as nt normal 4 we 2 worship angel nt even anything in heaven out Jesus. So I c no reason 4 dt verse
brocab: Then its best for you to hide away, and when the lord asks you what are you doing, you could say I don't believe people can cast out demons in your name, prophesy in your name, nor see visions, nor dream dreams. Jesus said by their fruit you will know them, He also says test the spirits weather they are of God, meaning to say, don't judge a book by its cover, if someone has a vision and it matches up with the word of God, then believe it. And in the last days God said He will pour out His Spirit, that your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, and your old men will dream dreams. And everything that's written that matches up with prophesies I believe. Poor old you, never knowing the truth, never testing the spirits of God, never becoming a born again Christian. You believe in a man made doctrine that doesn't belong to any truth written in the bible.
I bliv in d 7 gift of d holy spirit, I bliv in miracles, I bliv in working 4 Jesus. Bt wat am saying is dt people often deceive human by saying I saw God, he told me dis or dt, note, in warri a pastor was saying God took him 2 heaven nd he told God he wanted 2 b his police in heaven, outside he even said he saw his father in hell nd went 2 hell nd took him 2 heaven. Can u imagine
I bliv in d 7 gift of d holy spirit, I bliv in miracles, I bliv in working 4 Jesus. Bt wat am saying is dt people often deceive human by saying I saw God, he told me dis or dt, note, in warri a pastor was saying God took him 2 heaven nd he told God he wanted 2 b his police in heaven, outside he even said he saw his father in hell nd went 2 hell nd took him 2 heaven. Can u imagine
Though u bliv is only catholics dt blivs in praying 2ru saints or Mary. Bt in dt case u mentioned abt Angel replying am a fellow servant like u, I c it as nt normal 4 we 2 worship angel nt even anything in heaven out Jesus. So I c no reason 4 dt verse
I bliv in d 7 gift of d holy spirit, I bliv in miracles, I bliv in working 4 Jesus. Bt wat am saying is dt people often deceive human by saying I saw God, he told me dis or dt, note, in warri a pastor was saying God took him 2 heaven nd he told God he wanted 2 b his police in heaven, outside he even said he saw his father in hell nd went 2 hell nd took him 2 heaven. Can u imagine
italo: Jesus is the only way, yet you pray for your loved ones. Can they not go to him directly instead of going through you?
Think!
You don't get it at all. When we pray for our loved ones, it is done in the name of Jesus Christ, we make the prayer to the father through the Son ( Jesus, the WAY), with the holy spirit giving us the right words to say.
Jusmudi: Catholics do not pray "to" Mary as an equal to God. They pray "through" Mary as an intercessor who prays to God on behalf of mankind. If Catholics were to pray to Mary, this would imply that they are worshipping her as a god. But Catholics do not perceive Mary as a god. (i) They honour the Blessed Virgin Mary. (ii) The view Mary as the holiest of all the Saints. (iii) The accept the fact that Mary is the most successful Saint at obtaining Divine favours through her intercession. the above mentioned belief is partially based on the fact that Jesus is the King of kings and Mary, as the mother of the King, is the "queen mother." Then, when studying Jewish history, it is discovered that the institution of the "queen mother" was established during the reign of King Solomon. In the Old Testament, we learn of the favoured position of the queen mother through the following words, "... then the king sat on his throne, and had a throne brought for the king's mother, and she sat on his right. Then she said, 'I have one small request to make of you, do not refuse me.' And the king said to her, 'Make your request, my mother, for I will not refuse you.'" [1 Kgs. 2:19-20] Following the reign of King Solomon, many of the kings kept this practice. The mother of the king, through who the king received his throne, was trusted as a confident and advisor. So important was the function of the queen mothers in the days of the Old Testament that their names were listed in the succession records of the kings of Judah. [See 1 Kgs 14:21, 15:13; 2 Kgs. 12:1, 14:2, 15:2, etc...] Similar to the intercession of the Queen Mother, when a child desires a favour and cannot obtain it from his/her parents, frequently the child will make the request to the grandparent to intercede on his/her behalf, therefore obtaining the favour that was being sought. This does not mean that the child is seeking the parental favour from the grandparent. Rather, the child is seeking the intercession of the grandparents before the parents. Furthermore, Catholics do not differentiate between the living (in this world) and the dead (those who departed) members of the Body of Christ (the fullness of the Church.) The fullness of the mystical Body of Christ is found in the union of all the saints, past and present, here below and those above in Heaven. In view of the aforementioned, it cannot be denied that those who were called to Heaven, including Mary, are still alive in spirit in the Kingdom of God that coexists with our world. As some non-Catholics pray through their deceased parents, grandparents or other biological relatives, asking these beloved departed persons to intercede before God on their behalf, Catholics pray through Mary to Jesus, taking advantage of her blessed position as the Mother of God. This Catholic action affirms the prophetic and Divinely inspired passage that is found in the Holy Bible where it states, "Surely, from now on all generations will call me blessed." [Lk. 1:47] All generations could not call Mary blessed if she was not actively involved in the progressive Divine Plan that continues to develop before our eyes. Indeed, all generations have called the Blessed Virgin Mary blessed, including this one, because she has never stopped interceding on behalf of the world, her intercession obtaining endless miraculous cures and other favours. The role of Mary in the area of obtaining physical miraculous cures is well known and documented in Lourdes, France, this being only one of the many holy places where the grace of God has been manifested through the Virgin Mary at apparition sites. Rev;5:8(the prayer of the saints) Rev 8:3-4(the prayer of Angels) Matt18:10(Angels praying for little children ) Even at the wedding feast of cana I Bliv some catholics in the houz can help me with some point. Tanks
WITH CATHOLICS WE DONT KNOW WHERE TO START. FIRST AND FORMOST, NO MAN HONOURS ANOTHER EXCEPT GOD. WHATEVER WE DO HERE ON EARTH WE ARE SUBJECT TO EVALUATION BY THE ALMIGHT. ALL MORTALS ALIKE. AND THE LAST TIME I CHECKED MARY WAS A MORTAL. MARY GAVE BIRTH TO THE PHYSICAL SAVIOUR. THE ONE THAT HAD A FORM. WHEREAS THE STIRIT CHRIST HAS ALWAYS EXISTED EVEN BEFORE ABRAHAM LET ALONE MARY. HAVING NEITHER BEGINNING NOR END OF DAYS. EVEN CHRIST WAS NOT HONOURED DURING HIS TIME ON EARTH. BUT AFTER. PHILIPEANS TOLD AS WHY AND HOW THESE CAME TO BE..PHIL 1-10. IF THE MASSSIAH WAS NOT HOUNOURED BUT UNTIL AFTER HIS WORK, WHO ARE WE THEN AS MORTAL TO DECIDE WHO TO HONOURE OR PRAY THROUGH.
IF CHRIST WANTED US TO PRAY THROUGHT HIS MOTHER AFTER HE WAS GONE AM SURE HE WOULD HAVE LEFT IN DOWN AS A NOTE OF WORTH... LIKE DO THIS IN REMEBRANCE OF ME.
THERE ARE SEVERAL MANY THINGS THE BIBLE LEFT FOR US TO DO THAT WE FAIL TO DO. BUT RATHER ITS THE FEW ONCE WHICH CLEARLY ARE NOT MENTIONED [LIKE CHRISTMAS FOR INTANCE] THAT WE OFTEN ENGAGE OURSELVES IN WITH OUR HUMAN DISCRETION. THERE IS ONLY ONE MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MAN. AND I THINK WE KNOW WHO THAT IS WHY MAKE IT TWO.
Amyleb: You don't get it at all. When we pray for our loved ones, it is done in the name of Jesus Christ, we make the prayer to the father through the Son ( Jesus, the WAY), with the holy spirit giving us the right words to say.
