guardian:



Atheism is not a modern invention from the western Enlightenment, but actually dates back to the ancient world, according to a new book by a Cambridge academic – which challenges the assumption that humanity is naturally predisposed to believe in gods.

In Battling the Gods, Tim Whitmarsh, professor of Greek culture at Cambridge University, lays out a series of examples showing that atheism existed in polytheistic ancient Greece. It is, according to its author, partly “an attempt to excavate ancient atheism from underneath the rubble heaped on it by millennia of Christian opprobrium”.

Whitmarsh, a fellow of St John’s College, believes that the growing trend towards seeing religion as “hardwired” into humans is deeply worrying. “I am trying to destabilise this notion, which seems to be gaining hold all the time, that there is something fundamental to humanity about [religious] belief,” he told the Guardian.

Early atheists were making what seem to be universal objections about the paradoxical nature of religion
Professor Tim Whitmarsh

His book disputes that atheism is “a modern invention, a product of the European Enlightenment” and a mode of thought that “would be inconceivable without the twin ideas of a secular state and of science as a rival to religious truth”.

It is a myth, he writes, which is “nurtured by both sides of the ‘new atheism’ debate. Adherents wish to present scepticism toward the supernatural as the result of science’s progressive eclipse of religion, and the religious wish to see it as a pathological symptom of a decadent western world consumed by capitalism.

“Both are guilty of modernist vanity. Disbelief in the supernatural is as old as the hills. It is only through profound ignorance of the classical tradition that anyone ever believed that 18th-century Europeans were the first to battle the gods.”

“We tend to see atheism as an idea that has only recently emerged in secular western societies. The rhetoric used to describe it is hyper-modern. In fact, early societies were far more capable than many since of containing atheism within the spectrum of what they considered normal,” said Whitmarsh.

“Rather than making judgments based on scientific reason, these early atheists were making what seem to be universal objections about the paradoxical nature of religion – the fact that it asks you to accept things that aren’t intuitively there in your world. The fact that this was happening thousands of years ago suggests that forms of disbelief can exist in all cultures, and probably always have.”

In the fourth century BC, he points to Plato, as the philosopher imagines a believer chastising an atheist: “You and your friends are not the first to have held this view about the gods! There are always those who suffer from this illness, in greater or lesser numbers.”

“We may balk at his disease imagery,” writes Whitmarsh, “but Plato was surely right in his general point. There have been many throughout history and across all cultures who have resisted belief in the divine.”

Because you disbelieved things that are not unbelievable, your name from now on shall be Disbeliever (Apistos)
The god Asclepius, to a man who mocked miracle cures

These range from Carneades, head of the Platonic academy in the second century BC, who argued that “belief in gods is illogical”, to the Epicureans, who were often called atheoi in antiquity, and the atheistic writings of Xenophanes of Colophon.

Other examples are texts found regarding the healing god Asclepius from around 320 BC, including the case of a man who had lost the strength in his fingers, but who mocked the stories of the miracle cures found there, and refused to believe in them.

“When he slept in the sanctuary (a common type of ritual activity, known as incubation), Asclepius appeared to him in a dream. His fingers were cured, but the god chided him: ‘Because you disbelieved things that are not unbelievable, your name from now on shall be Disbeliever (Apistos).’ Aside from the story’s wonderful self-consciousness – a miracle inscription about someone who didn’t believe in miracle inscriptions – it also provides precious evidence for religious scepticism in practice, as espoused by a regular, everyday Greek,” writes Whitmarsh.

Whitmarsh argues that the diversity of ancient Greece’s polytheistic societies meant there was no such thing as religious orthodoxy, and no clergy laying out how people should live. This meant, he said, that while atheism could be viewed as mistaken, it was usually tolerated – although not in the case of Socrates, who was executed in Athens for “not recognising the gods of the city”.


While Whitmarsh is not setting out to take a stance on the truth or falsehood of atheism itself, he does state in his preface, his “strong conviction – that has hardened in the course of researching and writing this book – that cultural and religious pluralism, and free debate, are indispensable to the good life.

“Most cultures in human history have had a form of supernatural belief, of one sort or other. It would be hard to deny that that is the norm. But that’s not to say that every person in every culture has subscribed to that,” he writes.

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/feb/17/atheism-has-ancient-roots-claims-new-study

I'll add the likes of Nobunaga were essentially atheist

And here's India, circa 600 BCE

wiki:

Charvaka (IAST: Cārvāka), originally known as Lokāyata and Bṛhaspatya, is the ancient school of Indian materialism. Charvaka holds direct perception, empiricism, and conditional inference as proper sources of knowledge, embraces philosophical skepticism and rejects Vedas, Vedic ritualism and supernaturalism.[1][2]

Ajita Kesakambali is credited as the forerunner of the Charvakas,[3] while Brihaspati is usually referred to as the founder of Charvaka or Lokāyata philosophy.[4] Much of the primary literature of Charvaka, the Barhaspatya sutras (ca. 600 BCE), are missing or lost.[5] Its teachings have been compiled from historic secondary literature such as those found in the shastras, sutras and the Indian epic poetry as well as in the dialogues of Gautama Buddha and from Jain literature.[5][6]

One of the widely studied principles of Charvaka philosophy was its rejection of inference as a means to establish valid, universal knowledge, and metaphysical truths.[7][8] In other words, the Charvaka epistemology states that whenever one infers a truth from a set of observations or truths, one must acknowledge doubt; inferred knowledge is conditional.[9]

Charvaka is categorized as a heterodox school of Indian philosophy.[10][11] It is considered an example of atheistic schools in the Hindu tradition.[12][13][14]

then again, one simply need consider who the "fool" the bible referred to was.

Atheism doesn't have its roots in modern science. It is way older than today's science.

The term 'atheist' means a person doesn't believe in God. Aside from that, everything else is up for grabs.

Plato himself wrote about the ancient city called "Atlantis" and how it was destroyed. The Vedas also backed this story up.

Guys like Michael Angelo, Leonardo Da vinci who were born while Christianity was at its peak were very sure the God ideology was fictional and a means of control.

The great philosophers of old went to ancient mystery school,while some were born with the natural knowing that there isn't a God. Mystery schools to ancient religious people but can be called school of science in our today's society.

ifenes:
Atheism doesn't have its roots in modern science. It is way older than today's science.

The term 'atheist' means a person doesn't believe in God. Aside from that, everything else is up for grabs.

Plato himself wrote about the ancient city called "Atlantis" and how it was destroyed. The Vedas also backed this story up.

Guys like Michael Angelo, Leonardo Da vinci who were born while Christianity was at its peak were very sure the God ideology was fictional and a means of control.

The great philosophers of old went to ancient mystery school,while some were born with the natural knowing that there isn't a God. Mystery schools to ancient religious people but can be called school of science in our today's society.

While I understand why some people may look at the article and think what's the point (as rather obviously, atheism isn't some invention strictly speaking sef. Well, depending on how you define invention. However, inventing sky men, that's an invention, any day), you'd be surprised at what some people think, even those who'd you'd assume should know better.

they go as far as asserting that the burden of proof lies with the atheist, as the default position is to believe in god

the article doesn't fully address this though, it just raises some mildly interesting (and relevant) points and facts

@Italo, atheism is older than your catholic church, your bible and your Christ.


Ramen!

JackBizzle:
@Italo, atheism is older than your catholic church, your bible and your Christ.


Ramen!

Serious? Yet Atheism waited for Catholic Church to come and invent hospices, modern university system, become the single biggest charity organization in the world, etc

Atheism must be useless then.

italo:


Serious? Yet Atheism waited for Catholic Church to come and invent hospices, modern university system, become the single biggest charity organization in the world, etc

Atheism must be useless then.

Atheism is not a rival church or religion.


By the way, why not mention the torture devices, genocidal crusades and suppression of knowledge (science) tactics your catholic church invented?

italo:


Serious? Yet Atheism waited for Catholic Church to come and invent hospices, modern university system, become the single biggest charity organization in the world, etc

Atheism must be useless then.

Yeah, right, after plundering the people.

italo:


Serious? Yet Atheism waited for Catholic Church to come and invent hospices, modern university system, become the single biggest charity organization in the world, etc

Atheism must be useless then.

Wait......fact checking......

The catholic church did not invent charity. The catholic wealth from which they do charity is an ill-gotten wealth. Political skulduggery, Land grabs, brainwashing for offering etc.


The catholic church did not invent hospices. Many early society had organised ways to care for the dying. Your Nigerian culture and ancestry had a version of hospice. See how catholic church has destroyed your brain? You even deny your own culture.


smh. Italo

JackBizzle:



Atheism is not a rival church or religion.


By the way, why not mention the torture devices, genocidal crusades and suppression of knowledge (science) tactics your catholic church invented?

If Atheism isn't a rival religion, why did you compare the ages of Atheism and Catholicism?

If the Catholic Church suppressed science, why was a Catholic priest Fr George Lemaitre the first person to propounded the big bang theory? Why are 35 craters on the moon named after Jesuits? Why did a Catholic Priest Jean-Baptiste Lamarck prefigure the theory of evolution? Why are Thomas Aquinas and Roger Bacon credited with helping to develop the scientific method?

If the Catholic Church invented torture devices, why did torture devices exist before the Catholic Church?

The Crusades were a beautiful invention. We need another Crusade against ISIS.

By the way, it's very telling that you can't point out a single benefit Atheism has offered humanity.

JackBizzle:



Atheism is not a rival church or religion.


By the way, why not mention the torture devices, genocidal crusades and suppression of knowledge (science) tactics your catholic church invented?

If Atheism isn't a rival religion, why did you compare the ages of Atheism and Catholicism?

If the Catholic Church suppressed science, why was a Catholic priest Fr George Lemaitre the first person to propounded the big bang theory? Why are 35 craters on the moon named after Jesuits? Why did a Catholic Priest Jean-Baptiste Lamarck prefigure the theory of evolution? Why are Thomas Aquinas and Roger Bacon credited with helping to develop the scientific method?

If the Catholic Church invented torture devices, why did torture devices exist before the Catholic Church?

The Crusades were a beautiful invention. We need another Crusade against ISIS.

By the way, it's very telling that you can't point out a single benefit Atheism has offered humanity...Just bitterness and destructiin.

CoolUsername:


Yeah, right, after plundering the people.

Plundering which people? When and where?

You're just bitter that the Catholic Church is the biggest charity in the world offering education, health care and other help to billions in the world, while Atheism only offers bitterness, emptiness and destruction.

JackBizzle:



Wait......fact checking......

The catholic church did not invent charity. The catholic wealth from which they do charity is an ill-gotten wealth. Political skulduggery, Land grabs, brainwashing for offering etc.


The catholic church did not invent hospices. Many early society had organised ways to care for the dying. Your Nigerian culture and ancestry had a version of hospice. See how catholic church has destroyed your brain? You even deny your own culture.


smh. Italo

Mention the Nigerian hospice you're talking about. And tell us if it was run by Atheists.

And provide proof that the Catholic Church gets its charity money illegally...bitter thing.

wiegraf:


While I understand why some people may look at the article and think what's the point (as rather obviously, atheism isn't some invention strictly speaking sef. Well, depending on how you define invention. However, inventing sky men, that's an invention, any day), you'd be surprised at what some people think, even those who'd you'd assume should know better.

they go as far as asserting that the burden of proof lies with the atheist, as the default position is to believe in god

the article doesn't fully address this though, it just raises some mildly interesting (and relevant) points and facts

Atheism has never been an invention. Its just a mindset that doesn't rely on help from the unknown. Some people think Charles Darwin invented Atheism,which is not true. Atheism came first before any form of religion. Atheism will be the last man standing,it has no beginning nor end. God has a beginning and definitely an end.

italo:


Serious? Yet Atheism waited for Catholic Church to come and invent hospices, modern university system, become the single biggest charity organization in the world, etc

Atheism must be useless then.

Before the Catholic church the greatest inversions had been made e.g the Pyramids,which science of today still can't figure out. Talking of Catholic church,they are only recycling old knowledge and they burnt most books that could expose them.

Giordano Bruno,an Italian Astrologer,Mathematician,philosopher,atheist,poet,was killed because he proposed that there are possibilities of other planet like the earth.

Bruno was tried for heresy by the Roman Inquisition on charges including denial of several core Catholic doctrines (including Eternal Damnation, the Trinity, the divinity of Christ, the virginity of Mary, and Transubstantiation). He was burned at the stake

You must be on a strong mind control to still be a part of this organization/religion/cult

italo:


If Atheism isn't a rival religion, why did you compare the ages of Atheism and Catholicism?

If the Catholic Church suppressed science, why was a Catholic priest Fr George Lemaitre the first person to propounded the big bang theory? Why are 35 craters on the moon named after Jesuits? Why did a Catholic Priest Jean-Baptiste Lamarck prefigure the theory of evolution? Why are Thomas Aquinas and Roger Bacon credited with helping to develop the scientific method?

If the Catholic Church invented torture devices, why did torture devices exist before the Catholic Church?

The Crusades were a beautiful invention. We need another Crusade against ISIS.

By the way, it's very telling that you can't point out a single benefit Atheism has offered humanity.

Let's not derail our discussion!

Did the catholic church invent some torture devices? YES! (eg heretic fork)

Now....like I said, atheism is not a rival church or religion. I referred to the age of atheism and catholic church because it is commonly misunderstood that atheism is a reaction to the bible and christ.


Atheism is not a religion. It is not meant to better your life. It is not meant to give life purpose. It is only a philosophical stance on the non-existence of god.


Compare humanism to religion. That will make for a richer discussion where catholicism will end up looking like a relic from the dark ages

italo:


Mention the Nigerian hospice you're talking about. And tell us if it was run by Atheists.

And provide proof that the Catholic Church gets its charity money illegally...bitter thing.

You must be quite ignorant of the corrupt politics that the ancient popes engaged in? You are truly a brainwashed fellow. Even your username (Italo is short for italy) shows subservience to Rome (the vatican). You sound like the ancient altar boys in the Borgias play- groomed and brainwashed for servitude to the church.


As for hospice, in my village and up till today, we have a "herbalist" who looks after strong cases of illness. He helps them pass on to the next life. The herbalist and his disciples feed and wash the patients till they die.

Guy.

wiegraf:


While I understand why some people may look at the article and think what's the point (as rather obviously, atheism isn't some invention strictly speaking sef. Well, depending on how you define invention. However, inventing sky men, that's an invention, any day), you'd be surprised at what some people think, even those who'd you'd assume should know better.

they go as far as asserting that the burden of proof lies with the atheist, as the default position is to believe in god

the article doesn't fully address this though, it just raises some mildly interesting (and relevant) points and facts

Maybe this article will address it fuller to your satisfaction:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/atheism-is-as-old-as-religion-new-study-suggests-a6879341.html

The claims, made in Battling the Gods by professor of Greek Culture, Tim Whitmarsh, throw doubt into the idea we are hardwired to believe in a higher power – referred to a ‘religious universalism’.

Prof Whitmarsh, a Fellow of St John’s College, University of Cambridge, also counters the idea that atheism is a modern phenomenon.

He said: “These early atheists were making what seem to be universal objections about the paradoxical nature of religion – the fact that it asks you to accept things that aren’t intuitively there in your world.

@Italo, you say your god created the Universe? And he does not believe in a higher being? Then your god is an atheist!!!.................

And one more thing, your Catholic Church looted South America plus Mexico(which is part of North America)!!!

Niflheim:
@Italo, you say your god created the Universe? And he does not believe in a higher being? Then your god is an atheist!!!.................

And one more thing, your Catholic Church looted South America plus Mexico(which is part of North America)!!!

Without proof!

Bitter liar.

JackBizzle:



You must be quite ignorant of the corrupt politics that the ancient popes engaged in? You are truly a brainwashed fellow. Even your username (Italo is short for italy) shows subservience to Rome (the vatican). You sound like the ancient altar boys in the Borgias play- groomed and brainwashed for servitude to the church.

Ad hominem.

JackBizzle:

As for hospice, in my village and up till today, we have a "herbalist" who looks after strong cases of illness. He helps them pass on to the next life. The herbalist and his disciples feed and wash the patients till they die.

Guy.

Aha! So you know there is a next life.

Confused bitter thing.

JackBizzle:



Let's not derail our discussion!

Did the catholic church invent some torture devices? YES! (eg heretic fork)

Now....like I said, atheism is not a rival church or religion. I referred to the age of atheism and catholic church because it is commonly misunderstood that atheism is a reaction to the bible and christ.


Atheism is not a religion. It is not meant to better your life. It is not meant to give life purpose. It is only a philosophical stance on the non-existence of god.


Compare humanism to religion. That will make for a richer discussion where catholicism will end up looking like a relic from the dark ages

Summary: Atheism is useless. It only brings bitterness, emptiness and destruction.

italo:


Summary: Atheism is useless. It only brings bitterness, emptiness and destruction.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/3413837_martin_jpeg09c3d75fb8eb84869c9b62883caea1cc

italo:




Aha! So you know there is a next life.

Confused bitter thing.

Discussing with you is futile.

JackBizzle:



Discussing with you is futile.

Now you know how I feel discussing with atheists. But then we must discuss for the sake of fence-sitters.

UyiIredia:


Now you know how I feel discussing with atheists. But then we must discuss for the sake of fence-sitters.

Kettle, pot, black.

JackBizzle:

Kettle, pot, black.

Whatever.

italo:


Serious? Yet Atheism waited for Catholic Church to come and invent hospices, modern university system, become the single biggest charity organization in the world, etc

Atheism must be useless then.

Kai ... bullet through the heart .

KingEbukasBlog:


Kai ... bullet through the heart .

Remember your advice on azzlicking

JackBizzle:



Remember your advice on azzlicking

Oh come on ... how was that asslicking ? He's a fellow christian

KingEbukasBlog:


Oh come on ... how was that asslicking ? He's a fellow christian

Say something about the topic?

JackBizzle:


Say something about the topic?

The Old Testament of the Bible was written centuries ago and two different verses in the book of Psalms described those who didnt believe in God as fools - meaning atheists must have existed at that time or even before it . So I agree with the topic