bonechamberlain:
Putin has said it times without number, Russia only a madman would lead his country to war with nato, which Turkey is part of. but with the way things are turning turkey might be abandoned, though their officials are singing a different tune about the downing of Russia's jet. no country would ever use nuclear weapons. a conventional war with turkey would take Russia just 7days and turkey is finished.

Tkester:
Turkey is just blabbing, and they know that. Nobody in this world can stop Putin. Even US is careful when dealing with Putin. Erdogan will be toast if he hits Putin's troops.

[size=13pt]
In timaya voice
[img]http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSRedRkc5zJAfPf2IpkeowqYBdVgb88zcgvRIPz9r7sKvtRPUtk_Q[/img][/size]

scully95:


in russia's military doctrine, it can use nukes to pin point large targets and destroy it.. not like the crazy u.s bombed japan..
russia explained it in its military doctrine.. even its latest or upgraded grads,....

NairaMinted:


And as deadly as the Grads are, they are even smaller compared to the Uragans or Smerchs

scully95:


in russia's military doctrine, it can use nukes to pin point large targets and destroy it.. not like the crazy u.s bombed japan..
russia explained it in its military doctrine.. even its latest or upgraded grads, it uses hydrogen to kill..
meaning if u are within range where the Grad multiple rocket launcher system is being fired... it could choak u to death.

I don't think Russia will need to use nukes. They can just use regular bombs + give Syrians more grads:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSHjqeHw1Xs


If you follow what happened in eastern Ukraine with the 'separatists' novorossians and their grads under guidance from Russian advisors, they obliterated entire tank battalions from afar while shooting down about 13 Ukrainian jets left and right. And all this with Russia "not being in Ukraine".

If a bunch of untrained 'separatists' novorossians (Newrussia) with Russian training/control can defeat the Ukrainian army which had US backing and support, what can the actual Russian army do to a bunch of backwards ass retarded "soldiers" from these idiot countries?

mazeltov:
One of the most intellectually ignorant cum dumb and illogical human behaviours I see on internet is to see some midgets is to automatically resort to claiming victory for Russia or America. War vs. anything Russia or China will never be won or determined by anything conventional. What "nukes" during Cold War era is mutual destruction while some military industrial complex in the war always want us to believe that some war can be war with conventional weapons. I can't go further than this.

NairaMinted:
Week Nineteen of the Russian Intervention in Syria: would Russia use nukes to defend Khmeimim?




The past week saw no decrease in the tense confrontation between Turkey and Russia over Syria. While Russia’s position is simple – ‘we are ready to fight’ – the Turkish position is much more ambiguous: Turkish politicians are saying one thing, then the opposite and then something else again. At times they make it sound like an invasion is imminent, and at times they say that “Turkey plans no unilateral invasion”. Since a UN authorized invasion of Syria will never happen, this means some kind of “coalition of the willing”, possibly NATO. The problem here is that the Europeans have no desire to end up in a war against Russia. At the same time, the US and France refuse to allow a UN Resolution which would reaffirm the sovereignty of Syria. Yup, that’s right. The US and France apparently think that the UN Charter (which affirms the sovereignty of all countries) does not apply to Syria. Go figure…

There are persistent rumors that top Turkish military commanders, categorically oppose any attack on Syria and that they want no part in a war with Russia. I don’t blame them one bit as they understand perfectly well two simple things: first, Turkey does not need a war, only Erdogan does; second, when Turkey is defeated, Erdogan will blame the military. There are also signs of disagreements inside the USA over the prospects of such a war, with the Neocons backing Erdogan and pushing him towards war just as they had done with Saakashvili while the White House and Foggy Bottom are telling Erdogan to “cool it”. As for the Turks themselves, they have shelled Kurdish and Syrian positions across the border and, on at least two occasions, a small military force has been seen crossing the border.

From a purely military point of view, it makes absolutely no sense for the Turks to mass at the border, declare that they are about to invade, then stop, do some shelling and then only send a few little units across the border. What the Turks should have done was to covertly begin to increase the level of readiness of their forces then and then attacked as soon as Russians detected their preparations even if that meant that they would have to initiate combat operations before being fully mobilized and ready. The advantages of a surprise attack are so big that almost every other consideration has to be put aside in order to achieve it. The Turks did the exact opposite: they advertised their intentions to invade and once their forces were ready, they simply stopped at the border and began issuing completely contradictory declarations. This makes absolutely no sense at all.

What complicates this already chaotic situation is that Erdogan is clearly a lunatic and that there appears to the at least the possibility of some serious infighting between the Turkish political leaders and the military.

Furthermore, there appears to be some very bad blood between the USA and the Erdogan regime. Things got so bad that Erdogan’s chief adviser, Seref Malkoc, said that Turkey might deny the US the use of the Incirlik Air Base for strikes against ISIL if the US does not name the YPG as a terrorist group. Erdogan later repudiated this statement, but the fact remains that the Turks are now directly blackmailing the USA. If Erdogan and his advisors seriously believe that they can publicly blackmail a superpower like the USA then their days are numbered. At the very least, this kind of irresponsible outbursts shows that the Turks are really crumbling under the pressure they themselves have created.

Still, the fact that Turkey has not invaded yet is a tiny minute sign that maybe, just maybe, the Turks will give up on this crazy notion or that they will limit themselves to a ‘mini-invasion’ just a few miles across the border. The military would probably prefer such a minimal face saving option, but what about Erdogan and the crazies around him?

Maybe the Turkish military ought to realize that the country is ruled by the madman and do something about it?

Still, the Russians are taking no chances and they have put all their forces into high alert. They have very publicly dispatched a Tu-214r – her most advanced ISR (Intelligence Surveillance Reconnaissance) aircraft. You can think of the Tu-214R as an “AWACS for the ground”, the kind of aircraft you use to monitor a major ground battle (the regular Russian A-50Ms are already monitoring the Syrian airspace). In southern Russia, the Aerospace forces have organized large-scale exercises involving a large number of aircraft which would be used in a war against Turkey: SU-34s. The Airborne Forces are ready. The naval task forces off the Syrian coast is being augmented. The delivery of weapons has accelerated. The bottom line is simple and obvious: the Russians are not making any threats – they are preparing for war. In fact, by now they are ready.

This leaves an important question to be asked: what would the Russians do if their still relatively small force in Syria is attacked and over-run by the Turks? Would the Russian use nuclear weapons?

At least one reporter, Robert Parry, as written the following: “A source close to Russian President Vladimir Putin told me that the Russians have warned Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan that Moscow is prepared to use tactical nuclear weapons if necessary to save their troops in the face of a Turkish-Saudi onslaught”. Is that really possible? Would the Russians really use nuclear weapons of things get ugly in Syria?

The Russian Military Doctrine is very clear on the use of nuclear weapons by Russia. This is the relevant paragraph:

27. The Russian Federation reserves the right to use nuclear weapons in response to the use against her and (or) her allies of nuclear and other weapons of mass destruction, as well as in the case of aggression against the Russian Federation with the use of conventional weapons in a way which would threaten her very existence as a state. The decision to use nuclear weapons is taken by the President of the Russian Federation.
There is no ambiguity here. Unless Russia is threatened as a state she will not use nuclear weapons. Some will, no doubt, say that the official military doctrine is one thing, but the reality in Syria is another one and if the Turks overrun Khmeimim Russia will have no other option than to use nukes. There is a precedent for that kind of logic: when the US deployed the 82nd Airborne in Saudi Arabia as part of Desert Shield the Pentagon fully understood that if the much larger Iraqi army invaded Saudi Arabia the 82nd would be destroyed. It was hoped that the USAF and USN could provide enough air sorties to stop the Iraqi advance, but if not it was understood that tactical nuclear weapons would be used. The situation in Syria is different.

For one thing, the Russian task force in Syria is not an infantry tripwire force like the 82nd in Iraq. The terrain and the opposing forces are also very different. Second, the Russian contingent in Syria can count on the firepower and support of the Russian Navy in the Caspian and Mediterranean and the Russian Aerospace Forces from Russia proper. Last but not least, the Russians can count in the support of the Syrian military, Iranian forces, Hezbollah and, probably, the Syrian Kurds who are now openly joining the 4+1 alliance (Russia, Iran, Iraq, Syria and Hezbollah) turning it into a 4+2 alliance I suppose.

There is one important feature of this 4+2 alliance which ought to really give the Turks a strong incentive to be very careful before taking any action: every member of this 4+2 alliance has an extensive military experience, a much better one than the Turkish military. The modern Turkish military is much more similar to the Israeli military in 2006 – it has a great deal of experience terrorizing civilians and it is not a force trained to fight “real” wars. There is a very real risk for the Turks that if they really invade Syria they might end up facing the same nightmare as the Israelis did when they invaded Lebanon in 2006.

In the meantime, the Russian backed Syrian forces are still advancing. Since the beginning of their counter-offensive the Syrians have succeeded in recapturing all of the strategic locations in western Syria in slow and incremental steps and they are now threatening Raqqa. See for yourself:



The bottom line is this: the size and capabilities of the Russian task force in Syria has been expanding and the level of collaborations between the elements of the 4+2 alliance has been increasing. Add to this the capability to deploy a regimental-size (and fully mechanized) Airborne force in Latakia if needed, and you will begin to see that the Turks would be taking a major risk if they attacked Russian forces even if Russia does not threaten the use of tactical nukes. In fact, I don’t see any scenario short of a massive US/NATO attack under which Russia would use her tactical nuclear weapons.

Frankly, this situation is far from resolved. It is no coincidence that just when a ceasefire was supposed to come into effect two terrorist attacks in Turkey are oh-so-conveniently blamed on the Kurds. It sure looks like somebody is trying hard to set Turkey on a collision course with Russia, doesn’t it?

Making predictions about what the Turks and their Saudi friends will do makes no sense. We are clearly dealing with two regimes which are gradually “losing it”: they are lashing out at everybody (including their US patrons), they are terrified of their own minorities (Kurds and Shia) and their propensity for violence and terror is only matched by their inability in conventional warfare. Does that remind you of somebody else?

Of course! The Ukronazis fit this picture perfectly. Well, guess what, they are dreaming of forming an anti-Russian alliance with the Turks now. Amazing no? Just imagine what a Ukrainian-Turkish-Saudi alliance would look like: a real life “Islamo-Fascist” gang of thugs combining hateful fanaticism, corruption, violence, strident nationalism and military incompetence. A toxic combination for sure, but not a viable one.

The Saker

NairaMinted:
And what is this report about Saudi Arabia now possessing nuclear weapons and threatening to use it to protect their troops in the event of a ground invasion? Empty threats? Hogwash? What is the House of Saud's and Madman Erdogan's play here?

My rational thoughts tell me that they aren't crazy enough to risk a war with Russia but those same rational thoughts tell me that Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Turkey and the US have invested far too much into this Syria adventure to just throw in the towel this late.....Dangerous times these are

Missy89:
If anyone believe in Russia's right of protecting her interest in her near abroad and supported what Putin did in Ukraine and is against Turkey doing the same in Syria then you are nothing but a Russian shill.

What is Good for the goose is good for the gander.

NairaMinted:


Lookatchu! Is this what your "argument" has been reduced to? Oma se o!

What f**king interest is Turkey (and Saudi Arabia & Qatar, their US & Israeli lords, etc) protecting by harboring, funded and training vile Islamic terrorists to unseat a stable, secular government just because they want to build a freaking pipeline or enforce their Sunni influence in that region? What f**king interest?

I can't believe you are equating the events in the Donbass (won't even bother to expantiate) to Turkey's interests in Syria/Iraq! What just has the world turned to?

Zoharariel, please rewrite what I just posted in that sweet manner that you always do.

Missy89:
If anyone believe in Russia's right of protecting her interest in her near abroad and supported what Putin did in Ukraine and is against Turkey doing the same in Syria then you are nothing but a Russian shill.

What is Good for the goose is good for the gander.

Missy89:


So people that were killed in the donbass are collateral damage for Russia's interest and it is acceptable because Russia is the only country allowed to have geopolitical goals?

Please don't hide under " I won't bother to expantiate". You should. One might say what fucking interest does Russia have in Ukraine and training and arming terrorists masquerading as rebels and sepratists there. It is funny you are not seeing the hypocrisy of your logic

ValerianSteel:
Russia has been making threats against Turkey for two months now and hasn't actualized a single one.

OBAGADAFFI:
LOL,

Just look at what Russia has been reduced to in Syria.

I thought they were bragging at the US government.

Now the US has handed them over to the Turk's and Saudis.

This is exactly what the Arab League wanted.

I just pity that man called Bashar al-Assad.

NairaMinted:


Hahahahaha!

Geopolitics is beyond your paygrade Oga. First, if the U.S. is so tough and exceptional as they say they are ( this isn't Hollywood my friend) they should seize the opportunity and do the job themselves or at least join their Saudi wahhabi crazies and Turkish allies.
Second, you are apparently not aware that the U.S. has warned Turkey that they are basically on their own should they choose to tango with Russia.

"We will invade, we will invade we swear!" Is all we hear......The Russians are ready. Are Turkey and Saudi?

OBAGADAFFI:


Russian troll talking about paygrade, if you really know what it means.

What happened to Russia when, Gaddafi and Mubarak were going down.

Can you tell me Russian adventures in Syria started?

I thought by now the Russians will be shooting down every Turk's around Syria, after the SU attack.

But It seems Putin is not taking any advice from you self-hyping NL trolls.

NairaMinted:
By the way, Missy89, so just know that I have framed this and its hanging on the wall in my room

NairaMinted:


"Troll" LOL!
No vex you hear? I can't imagine how hard it is for you right now to see me winning and you losing and sulking. See the beautiful picture below. You see that? Just like the Debaltsevo cauldron, another is forming in Aleppo. Hurry up your Saudi wahhabi crazies and their Ottoman brothers to save their brothers before its too late o biko!

Lemme get back to my propaganda. I got daily quotas to fulfill lest the Kremlin sanction me!

PS: If you don't know what the Debaltsevo cauldron was, CIA agent, Missy89 would be more than capable to explain.