Musonda played in the middle for Betis yesterday (down to 10 men) and was very good defensively. I do think, that he should be allowed another loan move so that he will be commanding a shirt in the starting lineup and not competing with some of the wastemen in the team right now.

Betis actually won the match 2-0.

dmcdad:
Smh...

smh too...

The argument on Iniesta being vision less, indecisive and unproductive has been over-flogged and kudos to the guys-nihilist, raumdeuter, ibime, airmak and co for their input either in support or against the topic.
But, for the sake of those that might have been misled and misinformed based on the stats that have been put up, I decided to add my view.
Based on statistics
CR7 scored a total of 61 goals last season compared to Suarez 25 goals. Stats would tell us CR7 was more productive, but those that really saw Suarez play would agree his 25 goals won treble for the club.
Waney Rooney is the highest goal scorer for England with 50 goals while Tores only has 38 goals for spain. While stats would have proved Rooney as more productive, those that really followed the game would agree Tores' 38 goals have a world cup and European medals to show for it. So much for productivity.
Lampard, has more goals and assists than Xavi and Zidane combined, and one would have assumed he's the greatest midfielder based on stats, but we still have some on this forum that rate Xavi, Zidane and co ahead of Lampard.
Lampard scored 29 goals for England(including penalties and free-kicks), went to Euro 2004, scored 3 goals while England were eliminated by Portugal. He won the MOTM in a match against Paraguay without scoring at 2006 world cup and got eliminated by Portugal where he missed a crucial penalty.
He was also part of the team that got eliminated by Germany in the round of 16 at th 2010 world cup where he had a record of 37 shots on goal without scoring in a world cup tournament more than any other player since 1966 what is productivity?
Iniesta only has 13 goals for Spain in which he won back to back European cup while one of the goals won the world cup for Spain in their entire rich history. For a player that scores and assists less, there must be something special about him that got him applauds from all over.
Why couldn't any of Lamps 29 goals even take England to the final in any of the tournaments he played let alone wining any?
This is part of the post of Ibime on page 1829

In 1998, Zidane won WPOTY solely for his World Cup performance. How many goals he scored for Juve is irrelevant. The World Cup made him. Ronaldo De Lima and Alex Del Piero were BY FAR the best club players that season. Ronaldo was Serie A Player of the year for reference.

In 2000, Luis Figo was BY FAR the best club player in the World. Zinedine Zidane snatched the WPOTY based solely on the Euros. It was like a monumental disgrace when Figo did not win that year. Figo made so much noise about it, they had to feel sorry for Figo and give it to him the following year. You cannot remember that. How much he produced for his club is irrelevant. On club performance alone, he could not smell top 10 in WPOTY that year. Totti was Serie A Player of the Year for reference.
The world cup made Zidane as he won the tournament for France. He's praised and idolised for that. But Iniesta should be crucified for winning same world cup for his country. Zidane became famous for what he did for country more than club but Iniesta should be ridiculed for doing same for both club and country.
It's easy for someone who only relies on stats that can be gotten on the Internet to castigate Iniesta, but those that really watch him play regularly would never subscribe to that.
Lampard in Barca jersey would never have scored that much as you had claimed. He would never be the penalty and free-kick taker, he would never be able to shoot at sight regularly because of the style of play as emphasis are more on passing than shooting. Iniesta may not be as scoring or assisting as his counterparts, but what he brings to the field of play is what distinguishes him from the rest. 98% of the world tha have rated him so high couldn't have been blind to what you guys believe and I can say that even Lampard would give up everything he has including his wife to win half of what the maestro has won in his career.
There's no crime in hating someone as long as you don't bring such person down with your hatred. How some would hail Zidane, xavi and co and would pull down Iniesta is baffling. I don't like Drogba for anything, but that would not stop me from admiring his greatness and exploits as one of the best players Africa ever produced.
El illusionista is the don, hate him or like him, he has made his mark!

sebod:
The argument on Iniesta being vision less, indecisive and unproductive has been over-flogged and kudos to the guys-nihilist, raumdeuter, ibime, airmak and co for their input either in support or against the topic.
But, for the sake of those that might have been misled and misinformed based on the stats that have been put up, I decided to add my view.
Based on statistics
CR7 scored a total of 61 goals last season compared to Suarez 25 goals. Stats would tell us CR7 was more productive, but those that really saw Suarez play would agree his 25 goals won treble for the club.
Waney Rooney is the highest goal scorer for England with 50 goals while Tores only has 38 goals for spain. While stats would have proved Rooney as more productive, those that really followed the game would agree Tores' 38 goals have a world cup and European medals to show for it. So much for productivity.
Lampard, has more goals and assists than Xavi and Zidane combined, and one would have assumed he's the greatest midfielder based on stats, but we still have some on this forum that rate Xavi, Zidane and co ahead of Lampard.
Lampard scored 29 goals for England(including penalties and free-kicks), went to Euro 2004, scored 3 goals while England were eliminated by Portugal. He won the MOTM in a match against Paraguay without scoring at 2006 world cup and got eliminated by Portugal where he missed a crucial penalty.
He was also part of the team that got eliminated by Germany in the round of 16 at th 2010 world cup where he had a record of 37 shots on goal without scoring in a world cup tournament more than any other player since 1966 what is productivity?
Iniesta only has 13 goals for Spain in which he won back to back European cup while one of the goals won the world cup for Spain in their entire rich history. For a player that scores and assists less, there must be something special about him that got him applauds from all over.
Why couldn't any of Lamps 29 goals even take England to the final in any of the tournaments he played let alone wining any?
This is part of the post of Ibime on page 1829

In 1998, Zidane won WPOTY solely for his World Cup performance. How many goals he scored for Juve is irrelevant. The World Cup made him. Ronaldo De Lima and Alex Del Piero were BY FAR the best club players that season. Ronaldo was Serie A Player of the year for reference.

In 2000, Luis Figo was BY FAR the best club player in the World. Zinedine Zidane snatched the WPOTY based solely on the Euros. It was like a monumental disgrace when Figo did not win that year. Figo made so much noise about it, they had to feel sorry for Figo and give it to him the following year. You cannot remember that. How much he produced for his club is irrelevant. On club performance alone, he could not smell top 10 in WPOTY that year. Totti was Serie A Player of the Year for reference.
The world cup made Zidane as he won the tournament for France. He's praised and idolised for that. But Iniesta should be crucified for winning same world cup for his country. Zidane became famous for what he did for country more than club but Iniesta should be ridiculed for doing same for both club and country.
It's easy for someone who only relies on stats that can be gotten on the Internet to castigate Iniesta, but those that really watch him play regularly would never subscribe to that.
Lampard in Barca jersey would never have scored that much as you had claimed. He would never be the penalty and free-kick taker, he would never be able to shoot at sight regularly because of the style of play as emphasis are more on passing than shooting. Iniesta may not be as scoring or assisting as his counterparts, but what he brings to the field of play is what distinguishes him from the rest. 98% of the world tha have rated him so high couldn't have been blind to what you guys believe and I can say that even Lampard would give up everything he has including his wife to win half of what the maestro has won in his career.
There's no crime in hating someone as long as you don't bring such person down with your hatred. How some would hail Zidane, xavi and co and would pull down Iniesta is baffling. I don't like Drogba for anything, but that would not stop me from admiring his greatness and exploits as one of the best players Africa ever produced.
El illusionista is the don, hate him or like him, he has made his mark!

Perfectly said. U will still be quoted wrongly tho. Watch this space

I personally just get irritated when people bandy stats about without understanding what football is about.

Barca don't throw through balls about upandan. They are very patient with the ball. Often times, the ball goes through a long sequence of passes before it finds its way into the net. There's no rush to 'create chances'. The chances will come

What Iniesta and Xavi do..is control the tempo.

I'm sure many of you here will remember how Ibime was shouting how wanted Schweinsteiger back in the day...that's a man who used to average 4 league assists per season.

Will Ibime say he was vociferously advocating for an 'unproductive nigga'?

I mean come on...between 2010 and 2015 Pirlo registered 13 league assists on one occasion...the rest of the time he was averaging 4-5 assists per season

Of course, they will tell you that it was a deep position blah blah...but the fact of the matter is...most of the time players like Iniesta and co are not the ones that release the final ball.

They control the game and assist the assister.

I find it extremely idiotic that anybody will look at the highly decorated captain of the greatest club football team ever...and say he is unproductive

The only people allowed to say that are lobotomised zombies or people who don't understand football.

sebod:
The argument on Iniesta being vision less, indecisive and unproductive has been over-flogged and kudos to the guys-nihilist, raumdeuter, ibime, airmak and co for their input either in support or against the topic.
But, for the sake of those that might have been misled and misinformed based on the stats that have been put up, I decided to add my view.
Based on statistics
CR7 scored a total of 61 goals last season compared to Suarez 25 goals. Stats would tell us CR7 was more productive, but those that really saw Suarez play would agree his 25 goals won treble for the club.
Waney Rooney is the highest goal scorer for England with 50 goals while Tores only has 38 goals for spain. While stats would have proved Rooney as more productive, those that really followed the game would agree Tores' 38 goals have a world cup and European medals to show for it. So much for productivity.
Lampard, has more goals and assists than Xavi and Zidane combined, and one would have assumed he's the greatest midfielder based on stats, but we still have some on this forum that rate Xavi, Zidane and co ahead of Lampard.
Lampard scored 29 goals for England(including penalties and free-kicks), went to Euro 2004, scored 3 goals while England were eliminated by Portugal. He won the MOTM in a match against Paraguay without scoring at 2006 world cup and got eliminated by Portugal where he missed a crucial penalty.
He was also part of the team that got eliminated by Germany in the round of 16 at th 2010 world cup where he had a record of 37 shots on goal without scoring in a world cup tournament more than any other player since 1966 what is productivity?
Iniesta only has 13 goals for Spain in which he won back to back European cup while one of the goals won the world cup for Spain in their entire rich history. For a player that scores and assists less, there must be something special about him that got him applauds from all over.
Why couldn't any of Lamps 29 goals even take England to the final in any of the tournaments he played let alone wining any?
This is part of the post of Ibime on page 1829

In 1998, Zidane won WPOTY solely for his World Cup performance. How many goals he scored for Juve is irrelevant. The World Cup made him. Ronaldo De Lima and Alex Del Piero were BY FAR the best club players that season. Ronaldo was Serie A Player of the year for reference.

In 2000, Luis Figo was BY FAR the best club player in the World. Zinedine Zidane snatched the WPOTY based solely on the Euros. It was like a monumental disgrace when Figo did not win that year. Figo made so much noise about it, they had to feel sorry for Figo and give it to him the following year. You cannot remember that. How much he produced for his club is irrelevant. On club performance alone, he could not smell top 10 in WPOTY that year. Totti was Serie A Player of the Year for reference.
The world cup made Zidane as he won the tournament for France. He's praised and idolised for that. But Iniesta should be crucified for winning same world cup for his country. Zidane became famous for what he did for country more than club but Iniesta should be ridiculed for doing same for both club and country.
It's easy for someone who only relies on stats that can be gotten on the Internet to castigate Iniesta, but those that really watch him play regularly would never subscribe to that.
Lampard in Barca jersey would never have scored that much as you had claimed. He would never be the penalty and free-kick taker, he would never be able to shoot at sight regularly because of the style of play as emphasis are more on passing than shooting. Iniesta may not be as scoring or assisting as his counterparts, but what he brings to the field of play is what distinguishes him from the rest. 98% of the world tha have rated him so high couldn't have been blind to what you guys believe and I can say that even Lampard would give up everything he has including his wife to win half of what the maestro has won in his career.
There's no crime in hating someone as long as you don't bring such person down with your hatred. How some would hail Zidane, xavi and co and would pull down Iniesta is baffling. I don't like Drogba for anything, but that would not stop me from admiring his greatness and exploits as one of the best players Africa ever produced.
El illusionista is the don, hate him or like him, he has made his mark!

Bro you fall my hand for this long epistle wey you drop. Team win trophies in game of football. If you disagree with my above sentence then explain to us how Torres 38 goals won WC and Europe for Spain? If he was the keeper that saved one on one with Robben or the defender that cleared so many dangerous balls or is it possible he assisted himself with the goal, same question in iniesta's case. ronney was a good player but overrated by English media since na their son and he is currently enjoy that dividend with his huge weekly salary. That aside, I am not a fan of stats because it doesn't tell the whole story of players in a match, one of the reasons I still tell anti-hazard/Chelsea on here that hazard is a quality player( zidane of all people know this too). But this anti-Chelsea/hazard keep/kept throwing stats at hazard simply because Neymar, who plays for Barcelona in LA LIGA, as a striker in 4-3-3 formation,scored 40 goals plus for that reason is better than hazard. Which made me to raised lampard vs iniesta argument since it's about stats for anti-Chelsea/hazard on here. Most times, even team glory and play make some average/good players in the squad look like beast. E.g, Valdez, pique, Sergio bousquet.

Nihilist:
I personally just get irritated when people bandy stats about without understanding what football is about.

Barca don't throw through balls about upandan. They are very patient with the ball. Often times, the ball goes through a long sequence of passes before it finds its way into the net. There's no rush to 'create chances'. The chances will come

What Iniesta and Xavi do..is control the tempo.

I'm sure many of you here will remember how Ibime was shouting how wanted Schweinsteiger back in the day...that's a man who used to average 4 league assists per season.

Will Ibime say he was vociferously advocating for an 'unproductive nigga'?

I mean come on...between 2010 and 2015 Pirlo registered 13 league assists on one occasion...the rest of the time he was averaging 4-5 assists per season

Of course, they will tell you that it was a deep position blah blah...but the fact of the matter is...most of the time players like Iniesta and co are not the ones that release the final ball.

They control the game and assist the assister.

I find it extremely idiotic that anybody will look at the highly decorated captain of the greatest club football team ever...and say he is unproductive

The only people allowed to say that are lobotomised zombies or people who don't understand football.

You have seen Iniesta play and understand how the system works in Barca and the national team. Xavi-Iniesta combination is hailed as probably the best dual combo in the world. How Xavi is praised and Iniesta crucified is laughable. Messi was once louded for being aided by Xavi and Iniesta. Only those that check highlights and run to the Internet for stats would underrate his achievement in the world of football.

My question is: why do barca fans and dayo use stats to judge and diminish hazards good jobs in the field of play?

Iniesta is now on the receiving end of the same kind of criticism, story don change. Hypocrites!!

ollah1:




Perfectly said. U will still be quoted wrongly tho. Watch this space

I don't care bro, we are made to believe Zidane is highly rated for winning the world cup for france but Iniesta should be crucified for doing same. And one wonders why any of Lampard goals couldn't help his country to any of the finals. #talkofproductivity

sebod:

You have seen Iniesta play and understand how the system works in Barca and the national team. Xavi-Iniesta combination is hailed as probably the best dual combo in the world. How Xavi is praised and Iniesta crucified is laughable. Messi was once louded for being aided by Xavi and Iniesta. Only those that check highlights and run to the Internet for stats would underrate his achievement in the world of football.

Riquelme is widely regarded as the greatest if not one of the greatest number 10s in the history of the game...he retired with 52 career assists. Zidane retired with 46.. The great Ronaldinho finished with 127 assists....incidentally the same number as Iniesta...except half of those were in lesser leagues sef...

Goddam unproductive niggas...

Emaprince:
My question is: why do barca fans and dayo use stats to judge and diminish hazards good jobs in the field of play?

Iniesta is now on the receiving end of the same kind of criticism, story don change. Hypocrites!!

bro na same question I dey ask. Anti-Chelsea/hazard's logic= Neymar>hazard due to stat ignoring the fact that they in different league, formation, position, tactics and club. Now story change when I mentioned lampard>iniesta since football is all about stat according to them. Lol

I call them awon sentimental wereys.

Emaprince:
My question is: why do barca fans and dayo use stats to judge and diminish hazards good jobs in the field of play?

Iniesta is now on the receiving end of the same kind of criticism, story don change. Hypocrites!!

This was an argument between myself and Ibime and then Dayo weighed in. I don't know if other people are getting involved to wind Barca fans up or whatnot...between the 3 of us, I don't think there's anything like hypocrisy involved.

hensben:
Bro you fall my hand for this long epistle wey you drop. Team win trophies in game of football. If you disagree with my above sentence then explain to us how Torres 38 goals won WC and Europe for Spain? If he was the keeper that saved one on one with Robben or the defender that cleared so many dangerous balls or is it possible he assisted himself with the goal, same question in iniesta's case. ronney was a good player but overrated by English media since na their son and he is currently enjoy that dividend with his huge weekly salary. That aside, I am not a fan of stats because it doesn't tell the whole story of players in a match, one of the reasons I still tell anti-hazard/Chelsea on here that hazard is a quality player( zidane of all people know this too). But this anti-Chelsea/hazard keep/kept throwing stats at hazard simply because Neymar, who plays for Barcelona in LA LIGA, as a striker in 4-3-3 formation,scored 40 goals plus for that reason is better than hazard. Which made me to raised lampard vs iniesta argument since it's about stats for anti-Chelsea/hazard on here. Most times, even team glory and play make some average/good players in the squad look like beast. E.g, Valdez, pique, Sergio bousquet.

Bro,
I only used that Rooney and Tores analogy to buttress on what stats can do without looking at what transpires on the field, it's not about berating one to praise the other.
You personally have concluded about not comparing Hazard with Neymar as they are yet to play in same league, so I don't even expect you to make any input to Lampard vs Iniesta because they too are yet to play in same league.
Since we have agreed Zidane is hugely praised today for his heroics for France and not for the club sides, I decided to weigh both Lamps and Iniesta on that same international duties.
While Iniesta played with mediocre players as Valdez, pique, Busquets and co, he still won major trophies for his country albeit not having a robust stats. Why couldn't Lampard that played with very good players such as Rooney, Gerard, Ferdinand and co even get to any of the finals albeit having a very robust stats?
Football is not all about stats bro, people know what they want!

@ sebod

Kindly explain how fernandud torres 38goals won the world cup for Spain? And,I don't even want to bother about fernadud contributions in winning european medals.

Pls we should not open another discuss on ronaldo n Suarez or torres and Rooney on this thread plssssss.......!

hensben:
bro na same question I dey ask. Anti-Chelsea/hazard's logic= Neymar>hazard due to stat ignoring the fact that they in different league, formation, position, tactics and club. Now story change when I mentioned lampard>iniesta since football is all about stat according to them. Lol

I call them awon sentimental wereys.

Call them whatever you desire bro!
The comparison between Messi and CR7 started even when the later was still in England. His fans and loyalists believed he's was better because of his goals while Messi's advocates believed he was better because of his overall influence on the game. The duel got worse when CR7 moved to spain as he had to score loads of goals to keep pace with Messi who didn't necessarily need to score to prove anything as evident in his performance in the annihilation of Jose's Madrid then.
Hazard had a great season with Chelsea, and many started comparing him to the two who have always been rated based on their scoring prowess and better than Neymar. Don't you think his goals, skills and all round performance would be greatly put to scrutiny to stand on same level with the two guys?
Only if you are able to decipher my points though!

diggz:
@ sebod

Kindly explain how fernandud torres 38goals won the world cup for Spain? And,I don't even want to bother about fernadud contributions in winning european medals.

Pls we should not open another discuss on ronaldo n Suarez or torres and Rooney on this thread plssssss.......!

Only if you got what I was trying to pass across as regards the word 'productivity'
I only tried to show you how stats sometimes mislead if one does not take care of what the stats mean to the game and not berating either of the guys.
Get it?

sebod:

Bro,
I only used that Rooney and Tores analogy to buttress on what stats can do without looking at what transpires on the field, it's not about berating one to praise the other.
You personally have concluded about not comparing Hazard with Neymar as they are yet to play in same league, so I don't even expect you to make any input to Lampard vs Iniesta because they too are yet to play in same league.
Since we have agreed Zidane is hugely praised today for his heroics for France and not for the club sides, I decided to weigh both Lamps and Iniesta on that same international duties.
While Iniesta played with mediocre players as Valdez, pique, Busquets and co, he still won major trophies for his country albeit not having a robust stats. Why couldn't Lampard that played with very good players such as Rooney, Gerard, Ferdinand and co even get to any of the finals albeit having a very robust stats?
Football is not all about stats bro, people know what they want!

At the emboldened, I just had to, as you can see it has yielded result.(if u know what I mean).
Valdez wasn't a starter for Spain, England has average players as well and they are not consistent with selection due to hype here an there unlike Spain over the years.

Nihilist:


Riquelme is widely regarded as the greatest if not one of the greatest number 10s in the history of the game...he retired with 52 career assists. Zidane retired with 46.. The great Ronaldinho finished with 127 assists....incidentally the same number as Iniesta...except half of those were in lesser leagues sef...

Goddam unproductive niggas...

....and this is what same Riquelme had to say about the don.
"The one who plays this game the best is Iniesta: he
knows exactly when to go forward and when to drop
back. He picks the right moment to do everything:
when to dribble, when to speed things up and when to
slow things down. And I think that’s the only thing that
can’t be taught or bought. You can learn how to shoot
and how to control the ball, but being aware of
everything that’s happening out on the pitch – that’s
something you’re either born with or your not"

hensben:
At the emboldened, I just had to, as you can see it has yielded result.(if u know what I mean).
Valdez wasn't a starter for Spain, England has average players as well and they are not consistent with selection due to hype here an there unlike Spain over the years.

Ohhh you mean the likes of Rooney, Ferdinand, Terry, Cole, Gerard and co selected from the best clubs in a supposed best league were average? And why could Lampard that was productive not make one of his great stats count while Iniesta despite being unproductive in a team of average players could? Lampard would give up all his robust stats to score just a world cup winning goal sir!

sebod:

Call them whatever you desire bro!
The comparison between Messi and CR7 started even when the later was still in England. His fans and loyalists believed he's was better because of his goals while Messi's advocates believed he was better because of his overall influence on the game. The duel got worse when CR7 moved to spain as he had to score loads of goals to keep pace with Messi who didn't necessarily need to score to prove anything as evident in his performance in the annihilation of Jose's Madrid then.
Hazard had a great season with Chelsea, and many started comparing him to the two who have always been rated based on their scoring prowess and better than Neymar. Don't you think his goals, skills and all round performance would be greatly put to scrutiny to stand on same level with the two guys?
Only if you are able to decipher my points though!

I thought you said we shouldn't discuss lampard vs iniesta since they play in different league why bringing up Neymar vs hazard or you wan start your own huh.

Make I dey observe you first.

hensben:
I thought you said we shouldn't discuss lampard vs iniesta since they play in different league why bringing up Neymar vs hazard or you wan start your own huh.

Make I dey observe you first.

No sir, I would never be involved in such an argument again. I only tried to let you see what and what are expected from a player compared to CR7 and Messi that brought about the much heated argument of Hazard and Neymar. I wish you could get my point.

sebod:

Ohhh you mean the likes of Rooney, Ferdinand, Terry, Cole, Gerard and co selected from the best clubs in a supposed best league were average? And why could Lampard that was productive not make one of his great stats count while Iniesta despite being unproductive in a team of average players could? Lampard would give up all his robust stats to score just a world cup winning goal sir!

when I said England has average players also did I mention any of the above names in your comment huh. Are Villa, Xavi, Torres, Alonso, Ramos, casillas, alba, iniesta, Sylva, capdevilla average players? Btw, in my earlier comment I mentioned good and average players like bousquet, pique n Valdez. Common sense should tell you I meant Valdez is average while Sergio n pique are good. Remember we have good Better best in English language.

actually,it is funny and hypocritical how many barca fans are ready to bandy stat around when arguing about hazard's goal/assist output but when same stick(stat) is use to judge a barca player,they go hay-wire. it is pure hypocrisy!




stats do not tell the whole truth! alot of things happens in a football match that stats alone do not show/explain.



that aside,it is absolutely ridiculous and laughable to call iniesta 'unproductive'/waste of space/useless. there are things that players like iniesta do in a game that the camera/stats do not tell/show,just like busquet who many people underrate.


before judging iniesta,we should pause to look at a range of criteria to judge him with. for one,the system at barca emphasise patience and no rush to create chances or score goals. the system emphasise choking and tiring out the opponents with ball possession.



if you watch barca games in depth,you will see that iniesta is like messi,both are able to create something out of nothing even in tight space. that why you see 4 or 5 opponents surrounding iniesta,man-marking him. and when iniesta attract such number of opponents to himself,he frees up the other players,keeping them ready and alert to receive thorough-balls to score goals or assist. he use his dribbles and trickery to create chances for his team mates,just like hazard. that is why i don't understand the hazard's hatred/dislike by barca fans.



lets be fair,if you can't use stat to judge iniesta,then in the same vein,you have no moral right to use stat to judge hazard. EOD!

hensben:
when I said England has average players also did I mention any of the above names in your comment huh. Are Villa, Xavi, Torres, Alonso, Ramos, casillas, alba, iniesta, Sylva, capdevilla average players? Btw, in my earlier comment I mentioned good and average players like bousquet, pique n Valdez. Common sense should tell you I meant Valdez is average while Sergio n pique are good. Remember we have good Better best in English language.

Mr Hesben the coomon sense!
I don't expect to see a vision less and unproductive nigga up there same as Alba.
And you never told us the players in the England starting 11 that were termed average in those years that stopped Lampard from making any of his robust stats help his team to any of the finals.

Nihilist:
I personally just get irritated when people bandy stats about without understanding what football is about.

Barca don't throw through balls about upandan. They are very patient with the ball. Often times, the ball goes through a long sequence of passes before it finds its way into the net. There's no rush to 'create chances'. The chances will come

What Iniesta and Xavi do..is control the tempo.

I'm sure many of you here will remember how Ibime was shouting how wanted Schweinsteiger back in the day...that's a man who used to average 4 league assists per season.

Will Ibime say he was vociferously advocating for an 'unproductive nigga'?

I mean come on...between 2010 and 2015 Pirlo registered 13 league assists on one occasion...the rest of the time he was averaging 4-5 assists per season

Of course, they will tell you that it was a deep position blah blah...but the fact of the matter is...most of the time players like Iniesta and co are not the ones that release the final ball.

They control the game and assist the assister.

I find it extremely idiotic that anybody will look at the highly decorated captain of the greatest club football team ever...and say he is unproductive

The only people allowed to say that are lobotomised zombies or people who don't understand football.

The big difference is that Schweinsteiger and Pirlo play in the pivot/DM so comparison holds no water.

Iniesta controlling the tempo is bollocks - an excuse not to be productive. Busquets and Xavi control the tempo, not Iniesta.

Take Iniesta out that team and the tempo is still overly controlled. It does not need Iniesta.

Barca never lost one percentage of possession or tempo if they took out Iniesta and brought in Seydou Keita.

The DMs control tempo, the AMs produce. That is the way of football.

Danhumprey:
actually,it is funny and hypocritical how many barca fans are ready to bandy stat around when arguing about hazard's goal/assist output but when same stick(stat) is use to judge a barca player,they go hay-wire. it is pure hypocrisy!




stats do not tell the whole truth! alot of things happens in a football match that stats alone do not show/explain.



that aside,it is absolutely ridiculous and laughable to call iniesta 'unproduct'/waste of space/useless. there are things that players like iniesta do in a game that the camera/stats do not tell/show,just like busquet who many people underate.


before judging iniesta,we should pause to look at a range of criteria to judge him with. for one,the system at barca emphasise patience and no rush to create chances or score goals. the system emphasise choking and tiring out the opponents with ball possession.



if you watch barca games indepth,you will see that iniesta is like messi,both are able to create something out of nothing even in tight space. that why you see 4 or 5 opponents surrounding iniesta,man-marking him. and when iniesta attract such number of opponents to himself,he frees up the other players,keeping ready and alert to recieve thorough-balls to score goals or assist. he use his dribbles and trickery to create chances for his team mates,just like hazard. that is why i dont understand the hazard's hatred/dislike by barca fans.



lets be fair,if you cant use stat to judge iniesta,then in the same vein,you have no moral right to use stat to judge hazard. EOD!

There's is a huge difference between those that watch Iniesta play and those that only check out the highlights and stats. Thumbs up for your analysis as I rest my case. E0D!

Danhumprey:
actually,it is funny and hypocritical how many barca fans are ready to bandy stat around when arguing about hazard's goal/assist output but when same stick(stat) is use to judge a barca player,they go hay-wire. it is pure hypocrisy!




stats do not tell the whole truth! alot of things happens in a football match that stats alone do not show/explain.



that aside,it is absolutely ridiculous and laughable to call iniesta 'unproduct'/waste of space/useless. there are things that players like iniesta do in a game that the camera/stats do not tell/show,just like busquet who many people underate.


before judging iniesta,we should pause to look at a range of criteria to judge him with. for one,the system at barca emphasise patience and no rush to create chances or score goals. the system emphasise choking and tiring out the opponents with ball possession.



if you watch barca games indepth,you will see that iniesta is like messi,both are able to create something out of nothing even in tight space. that why you see 4 or 5 opponents surrounding iniesta,man-marking him. and when iniesta attract such number of opponents to himself,he frees up the other players,keeping ready and alert to recieve thorough-balls to score goals or assist. he use his dribbles and trickery to create chances for his team mates,just like hazard. that is why i dont understand the hazard's hatred/dislike by barca fans.



lets be fair,if you cant use stat to judge iniesta,then in the same vein,you have no moral right to use stat to judge hazard. EOD!

This is my point. You nailed it bro. Bravo.

Ibime:


The big difference is that Schweinsteiger and Pirlo play in the pivot/DM so comparison holds no water.

Iniesta controlling the tempo is bollocks - an excuse not to be productive. Busquets and Xavi control the tempo, not Iniesta.

Take Iniesta out that team and the tempo is still overly controlled. It does not need Iniesta.

Barca never lost one percentage of possession or tempo if they took out Iniesta and brought in Seydou Keita.

The DMs control tempo, the AMs produce. That is the way of football.

Oga park well and on ya inner light

We've shown you several articles that have proven that Iniesta plays as a CM not AM

That being said, how can you say Iniesta does not control tempo? Have you been smoking lala?

Ibime have you asked yourself why Fabregas that gives goals and assist was chased from Barca while Iniesta stayed?

Or why Toure left and Busquet stayed?

Goals and assists are secondary deliverables to being able to keep the ball at Barca.

Raised and taught to play tiki-taka, Fabregas played like he was restricted by the style of football...

....Arsenal’s style of football is said to be the closest to that of Barcelona. Both teams always like to keep possession. However, Arsenal are much more direct than Barcelona. Fabregas always tried playing through-balls behind opposition defenses at Arsenal, and this continued trend did him no favors at Barcelona.

At Barcelona, the players pass the ball until they find a true opening in the opposition defense to exploit, and then the ball is played in to that player. Fabregas, in his time at Barcelona, was often accused of giving away possession all too often. He tried playing the ball in behind too many times, often resulting in the opposition gaining possession of the ball

http://worldsoccertalk.com/2014/10/12/why-cesc-fabregas-never-lived-up-to-his-potential-at-barcelona/

Even when he had far more goals and assists than Iniesta, this so called productive nigga was either played out of position or riding the bench before being chased away and replaced by Rakitic.

Barca paint football...they don't play it.The point is that they play a style that isn't necessarily quantifiable by numbers in the way other teams are. Goals and assists from midfield are less relevant than keeping the ball. Difference between defence and midfield is blurred...we heard the other day how Machsherano said he starts pressing in the same area as Busquets.

They average 62% possesion per game....for around 56 whole minutes of a 90 minute game, their oponnents don't even see ball to touch. You think they can maintain that with the assist chasing CMs?

Dude lay off the chiba!

hensben:
bro na same question I dey ask. Anti-Chelsea/hazard's logic= Neymar>hazard due to stat ignoring the fact that they in different league, formation, position, tactics and club. Now story change when I mentioned lampard>iniesta since football is all about stat according to them. Lol

Neymar/Hazard feud is not worth discussing. It goes beyond goals and assists.
Keep Hazard out of this. Neymar, Iniesta, Zidane have influenced major finals like UCL final. Hazard should just go and polish their shoes.

lordfalcao:
what is then your point blaming Iniesta ability to go a season without a goal and assist on barca attacking trio??

There has never been a season Iniesta went without a goal or an assist in all competition. You can stake $1,000 on it if you are sure

JigsawKillah:



Sleekdot AKA Ramuzaki AKA The Last Truth Bender!
I carry hand and leg for you.




All Hail Ramuzaki the Last Truth Bender

You might be intellectually challenged. But if you read properly you would see I said Iniesta played CM with Xavi. Busquets played as the DM

airmark:


Though guys have been talking about league season's assists but in order to play a smart one, you brought 'all competitions' assists to boost iniesta's stats. Let's assume we are f00ls and you succeeded with that trick, what happened to his ''all competitions'' assists in 2009/2010 and 2010/2011 missing in your post? Did iniesta die in those seasons for you not to have listed them? In all competitions in 2009/10 he had 6 assists, 5 in la liga. Also in ''all competitions'' in 2010/2011 he had 9 assists (no double digits as you fraudulently claimed) while in la liga he had just 3 assists in 32 league matches. Ramuzaki next time you post, remember smarter people are watching all your not-so-smart moves.

Why would any smart person talk about league alone? Is the league the only competition they play?

So if a player scores 10 in CL and 1 in league you would in your infinite foolishness say he had only 1 goal in a season?

Thats why you are never counted among the smart ones at least on this forum