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Discuss Anything Property And Lets Make Money In The Process / Residential Building Construction Mistakes In Nigeria You Need To Avoid / General Topic Thread - The Roforofo Thread Of Construction Activities (2) (3) (4)
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Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by Nobody: 5:57am On Mar 10, 2016 |
1 Like |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by babalose: 6:23am On Mar 10, 2016 |
What happened to Lekki Gardens should also serve as a lesson to all builders, so called builders and aspiring builders in this forum. All professional parties involved in the construction Lekki Gardens are not new to construction and might have been getting away with quack jobs for God knows how many decades but their cup became full eventually. Most builders sacrifice quality jobs for gains and then compensate for it in the aesthetic. Builders using sub standard materials, wrong mix ratio for cement and all their selfish money saving schemes because of their greed or mismanagement of clients funds at the peril of the client without consideration for the effect of their actions will always have their cup full someday too. When a builder gets used to doing this and he thinks he got away with it, he will be doing it more often because greed is an insatiable attribute, this will lead to an obvious eventuality....His downfall. The interesting thing about construction is that the builder can still get arrested, if a building collapse after 10 years and some cases even up to 50 years. MAY THE SOUL OF THOSE LOST IN LEKKI GARDENS REST IN PERFECT PEACE BUT MAY THE BUILDERS AND ALL PARTIES INVOLVED BE HAUNTED BY THE BLOOD THEY HAVE SHED. 2 Likes |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by brabus(m): 6:25am On Mar 10, 2016 |
In 2012, I wrote this piece on foundation engineering based on field experience. Foundation Depth - How DEEP is deep enough? And a certified pro beg to disagree with my post with this claim. Pro: I totally disagree with you, the higher a building goes, the deeper the foundation should go. You rightly stated Wind load as a factor to be considered. Wind loads and building heights have a direct proportionality (i.e the higher a building goes, the higher the Wind load). Pressure increases with depth, therefore the active earth pressure coupled with other factors such as Column strength, shear walls and bracing (if provided) needed to sufficiently resist such horizontal loads as wind load can only be achieved with an increase in depth. That's the width strength you were referring to. Here's what I learnt from the Journals documented by the practising pro. The Burj Dubai Tower (at 818m or 2,684-ft height or almost exactly 1/2 a mile) has a 3.7m thick raft foundation sitting on 50m deep bored piles. I would expect the founding depth of such structure to be more deep Is it safe to say, our pros are not updated. _____ Source: Building in Nigeria: Lessons learned by Brabus. |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by 4nobody4every1: 7:08am On Mar 10, 2016 |
EgunMogaji:Following the discussion with rapt attention, the bold got me laughing ![]() ![]() ![]() 1 Like
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Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by skimanski(m): 8:33am On Mar 10, 2016 |
Oga Brabus I can see you know a lot about Structural Calcs. Your professionalism na top. but lets come down to the level of laymen like us. forget those story of Following Structural Calculation to confirm the Live/Dead Load Analysis, Steel Analysis, Shear Force and Movement Information. Thats not what I feel is the problem, those na many grammar. This is a Clear case of Lekki Garden Bring Small Money put am for contractor hand, and expect contractor to make the figure work no matter what, and Contractor collects what he feels is his gain inside and use the remainder to work, before you know the money becomes too micro for the project. The major blame should go to the buyers who like Cheap things, you want to buy a house with money you know wont build you Carcass. didnt you think of how is it possible for the Sellers to make gain like. Oh! the sellers are not there to make gain right? only you the buyer is expected to gain from the process right? Thats a case of when people deceive their selves. you want to buy things with money you know isn't realistic and expect to get what you want. O.Y.O is their case anyway. Lekki Gardens Build Cheap Houses because they know people like their Buyers are everywhere. They want to eat their cakes and still have it. 2 Likes |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by babalose: 8:43am On Mar 10, 2016 |
Integrity of Contractor Vs Financial Gains...i believe the contractors myopic desire won |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by Uberness: 8:44am On Mar 10, 2016 |
abdulwastecx: EgunMogaji: True My Prof. @ Abdulwastecx, The Structural drawing was of course produced by the Structural Engr. in question and all other protocols were equally duelly observed. You can trust me on this. @ Oga EgunMogaji you hit it on the sweet spot. Merci. 1 Like |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by Uberness: 8:48am On Mar 10, 2016 |
skimanski: GBAM !!! |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by brabus(m): 8:54am On Mar 10, 2016 |
Oga Skimanski What do I know? Your piece is more like an insider story. I used to see the Lekki gardens as a model. Now I know better. And I never looked at it from your perspective to blame it on the client. skimanski: If we no blow those grammars, we may never know the truth since no one (including me even though I no enter Lekki garden pass one time all my life) is ready to talk until now. Subscribers over to you o! |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by texazzpete(m): 8:56am On Mar 10, 2016 |
skimanski: I see this extremely stupid point of view, and it baffles me all the time. Sure, lekki gardens houses are relatively cheaper than most other developers, but they aren't really CHEAP. You'd be paying N25+ million for a carcass terrace duplex...and that's not dirt cheap. Even taking out costs for the land itself (which is drastically reduced due to the density of LG buildings + terrace/apartment development), there are many here that build their houses with money in the same ballpark. Also, LG makes extra money from the service charges and running fees from homeowners. Some of you talk like the houses cost N5million each, That's far from the truth. the prices for these buildings were set by Lekki Gardens. Customers just pay. To try to shuffle the blame for poor construction standards and rampant disregard for building rules on the customer is just plain daft. 10 Likes |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by Tvegas(m): 9:18am On Mar 10, 2016 |
texazzpete: Anyhow we wanna cut this ,buyers are also partly responsible. Some buyers never visit the site before paying. A brief visit to some of those sites will reveal poor constructions going on. 1 Like |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by texazzpete(m): 9:30am On Mar 10, 2016 |
Tvegas: How is that a fault of theirs? This isn't a custom build where you do it yourself. This is you trusting the track record of an estate developer and assuming all due diligence is being done. The horizon 1 estate that had the collapsed building was advertised and sold to investors/buyers in 2013, well before LG became toxic. I'm not sure what's driving this 'blame the buyers' mentality, but it sure ain't common sense. People entered a contract with a developer to deliver quality housing. If the developer delivers a shoddy job, in what world does it make sense to blame the buyer that held up his own part of the agreement ? Looking forward to when some people will blame car owners for any bad job their mechanic does. 2 Likes |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by texazzpete(m): 9:39am On Mar 10, 2016 |
brabus: That's because you're a smart fellow and inherently you know it's ridiculous to blame the client for this mishap 1 Like |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by brabus(m): 9:41am On Mar 10, 2016 |
texazzpete: I'm not smart, I just don't see any reason why I should blame #ocholi ![]() |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by skimanski(m): 9:42am On Mar 10, 2016 |
texazzpete: Ahhh!!!! comeon you dont insult people nah! is that how you talk? If you like Cheap things, you buy nah. If you disagree with my comments,you just disagree and dont Insult. China makes Phones that do not last the 5th Charging Circle, or that might burn your other appliances, so are you telling me the biggest problem to that is the Government control or the Subcribers? You buy a house for 25m. Thats not even up to the price of land in that area. but you want to use that money to own a complete house, whose Daft now? You can see the Writing on the wall yet you still push the botton and open the door. So whose Daft? Please Carefully comment next time and dont insult people. I beg you. Lets be matured. |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by abdulwastecx(m): 10:04am On Mar 10, 2016 |
Uberness: That is a very good thing to do sir |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by mavverick: 10:12am On Mar 10, 2016 |
Hello skimanski I went into the sales office at Lekki Gardens a few years ago, and they like to put these nice looking Calabar girls within the sales office, you know what that means right.... lol Jokes apart, Someone made a comment earlier that its not only from the building cost that LG makes money, I feel its the service charges and the other boltons. I also understand that its actually not LG that builds the houses, they subcontract to Mr A and Mr B, with my little construction knowledge I have come to the conclusion that during construction, you can arrive at your destination using different routes, do it well and dont compromise at all, compromise a little or just do a really bad job. I feel its hard to blame the subscribers, afterall they believed LG can build en-masse and pass on the savings. skimanski: |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by texazzpete(m): 10:14am On Mar 10, 2016 |
skimanski: I didn't 'insult' you. It was a silly comment you made, and i stated that accordingly. skimanski: Nobody is buying a standalone house for N25m. Did the part i mentioned about 'land density' fly out through your ear? The land for these type of estates are acquired as a bulk purchase, and because of the terrace or apartment design, several housing units are fitted on one plot of land, drastically driving down the unit cost of land per house. When the economics are run, there's perfectly enough cash to build a safe, secure house. It all depends on the business model. If the developer's plan is to minimize profit on the house to maximize returns from estate management, service charge fees etc, where's your analysis to say this is not a viable business model? Your problem is that you speak out of ignorance. There are MANY business areas where these models are used, and they work pretty well. Sony sells the Playstation 4 at cost (or even a small loss) at $299, but they make billions in profit from sales of games, licencing fees and yearly subscription for online play. Using your 'China' example, take a look at Xiaomi. They sell a phone with pretty much the exact same specs as the $700 Galaxy S7 for $400. While Samsung makes profit from the hardware sales, Xiaomi's business model is to sell their phones at razor thin margins yet make hundreds of millions in profits from sales in the preloaded Xiaomi appstore. This has paid off since they are now one of the top 7 phone manufacturers in the world. Your darling estate developers that sell houses at a premium are using the 'Samsung' approach. They sell FEWER units with a higher per unit profit. Lekki Gardens should nominally be on the 'Xiaomi' approach. Selling a crazy boatload of houses at small profit margins, but much higher returns from service charges. Then you - with your limited understanding - pop up to claim that the MAJOR culprits in an apartment block collapse that killed 25 people are the folks who paid money for these flats. And you consider it an insult when you're rightfully challenged over the inanity of this claim. And to clarify, the N25m for a terrace duplex is only in places like Ajah where land prices are MUCH cheaper than in the area where the building collapsed. 7 Likes |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by mavverick: 10:15am On Mar 10, 2016 |
Oga twinskenny When you say contractor, do you mean LG as a company or the actual subcontractor that put up the building, the one that LG asked to build it ? Make we bet am, nothing will happen to LG and in a few months time when the dust settles, they will start selling again. This is nija, you will just hear that the foreigners mostly Cotonou and Togo people have been settled. twinskenny: |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by mavverick: 10:21am On Mar 10, 2016 |
Take it easy on Skimanski Sir texazzpete I think he was just trying to explain his POV, skimanski is one of the positive contributors on the NL property section. I do not know him personally, but I dont see anything he has said that should warrant this kind of tirade. texazzpete: 1 Like |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by brabus(m): 10:22am On Mar 10, 2016 |
Now, Excuzeme Egunmogaji and Baba Crisisng I hope you've seen the reasons why you should learn your building codes and calculations by heart. Meanwhile, I just learnt that construction cost is detemined by the amount you paid for the land. "If you buy land for 25m, you're not expected to build with nothing less than 50m even if it's a glorified block of flat like The Horizon" - author unknown 1 Like |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by mavverick: 10:56am On Mar 10, 2016 |
Thank you for answering my question. Let me ask, are you a registered COREN engineer ? Do you do structural design work and produce the drawings such that a builder and I myself can understand, as I had to learn how to read plans when it got to one stage. Would you also require a site visit before you do your structural design ? Should Architect also be the one/with his cronies etc to do the mechanical design and also the electrical one ? Reason I ask is coz i remember this causing delays and my architect said that he was waiting on the electrical people to finish the electrical design ? Same with mechanical, but some aspects of it were changed during the course of construction. abdulwastecx: |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by skimanski(m): 11:55am On Mar 10, 2016 |
texazzpete: There is no need trying to score points from writing the way you write. Anyway I understand you don't know how to comment on things without using insultive phrases. Oh well, I'm not like you so do not indulge in such level of conversation. We I comment I comment, I don't insult people. Anyhow incase you missed it, I said the major blame goes to the buyers. Never said Lekki gardens nor government were not to blame. So go next time read through things before your look for opportunity to insult people. But if you feel u can't comment without insulting me, then don't bother commenting, I will understand it's the way you are and can't change. But if you comment and do not insult me, then kudos, it means you've grown and I've improved impacted on your life today. However if you feel you want to comment and continue insulting then my brother Na God go hand that one dey ooo. Anyway my understanding of this what you are saying is that, If Hyundai tells you they can make Gwagon for Hyundai price and with Hyundai parts you will believe ? Who does that? If you tell me it's right to go with Lekki gardens despite all the poor ratings, then you are entitled to your own opinion. 3 Likes |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by texazzpete(m): 12:28pm On Mar 10, 2016 |
skimanski: In case you missed it, my efforts at educating you have been geared towards setting you straight on your ludicrous 'major blame' line. ZERO blame goes to the buyers. ZERO. Makes no sense to keep chest-beating and congratulating yourself on 'maturity' while you're employing juvenile reasoning skills. skimanski: Nice try, but the gap between Lekki Gardens houses and some of the more premium developers is nowhere near that of your analogy. terrace duplex carcass in Horizon 1 would probably be around N35m. You'll get a terrace in more premium development in that area for around N50m, with finishing. At best, Lekki gardens is around 15% cheaper than average when you add in the cost of very good finishing. Try using 115% of the cost of an ix35 to buy a G wagon. See why I said you're not thinking these things out properly? skimanski: I dare you to point out anywhere I recommended Lekki Gardens. I happen to think they are a pretty terrible developer However, the estate in question was marketed and sold in 2013, well before any negative stories of Lekki gardens gained popularity. Blaming the owners for buying into an estate that was marketed as reputable and as a great investment makes zero sense. You whine about 'insults', but there's really no greater insult than you insinuating that folks who invested their hard earned money into LG's estates (and who will now be deeply upset about the damage to their investments) are the ones with the main responsibility for killing 25 men, women and children. 8 Likes |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by abdulwastecx(m): 12:51pm On Mar 10, 2016 |
texazzpete: Wholesome analysis sir. It is clear that the customer ( home owner) have zero blame, since they pay for a service that was rendered by a supposed competent film. The blame should be on the developer. It make business sense as clearly illustrated by you, and to think of it this way, less than 10 % of Nigeria population can even come up with a 25% for a dwelling accommodation. It is sad that people who invest their hard earned money lost their investment to a dubious organization 1 Like |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by spyder880(m): 12:59pm On Mar 10, 2016 |
EgunMogaji: My Oga, I dey here o. Observing silently while taking notes and learning something every second. Eku ise baba ![]() 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by brabus(m): 1:06pm On Mar 10, 2016 |
Rescue work ends at collapsed Lekki house Patiently awaiting the reports and recommendations of each agencies. That's what matters now. I can only hope they'll also call the subscribers to come and take their fair share of the blame. ![]() However, it seems someone in govt is reading up what we've been discussing here on nairaland. First, they didn't want to mention the name of the developer (a certain building in Ikate...) until we voiced it out. Second, they didn't want to issue a press release until we took to the street chanting "we no go gree." Thirdly, NIOB is condemning the brazen act of the developer after we call them out (This is like first time, i'll hear them talk on issue like this). Now, all relevant agencies (federal and states) have been called out just as we recommended 2 days ago. Don't be surprised this case will be the beginning of the change we've all been waiting for. Mark my (packaged) words. Because we will school them on how it ought to be. Lets forget, how it has been. Change is possible if rightly administered. |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by Nobody: 1:23pm On Mar 10, 2016 |
brabus: everybody is liable lasbca - who are meant to monitor building construction, but are only concerned with shutting down sites so they can collect settlement, after which work continues. Lekki gardens who clearly do not have any quality control/quality assurance in their processes. it would seem their building plan is execute by cheapest vendor possible. they may also have deviated on the original approved design the contractor[s] - who executed poor site safety management, and who have cut corners [possibly due to very low margins of greed, or plain incompetence]. the supervising consultants - who did not raise any alarm when QA was circumvented. it will be interesting to see how much of the standard process was followed - this will be a guide to liability. alot of people have entered one chance with this. this is not TB joshua who can bamboozle people with touch not my anointed BS. people are going down. 1 Like |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by brabus(m): 1:26pm On Mar 10, 2016 |
abdulwastecx: Who are you sef? Must you make sense all the time. You also top with up with mathematical calculations. You are the only engineer who proves his worth here unlike me. I expect those engineering jargon and mathematical calculations to be thrown in at all times by seasoned engineers and you never failed to disappoint me. God bless you real good. 1 Like |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by brabus(m): 1:28pm On Mar 10, 2016 |
oyb: I'll charge you for plagiarism. Everybody is to be blamed. Including those who choose to be economical with the truth and refused to raise alarm when they sense danger. And those who felt God should be blamed. And those who blamed ocholu. Evidence attached. https://www.nairaland.com/2550211/off-topic-thread-discuss-anything-everything/157#43596822
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Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by texazzpete(m): 1:36pm On Mar 10, 2016 |
brabus: Well said. To think they tried to hide the involvement of Lekki Gardens at first. 35 dead...such a tragic loss. This is probably top 5 in the deadliest building collapse incidents in Nigeria. Ambode seems ready to crack down on LG, especially since it is a dragon that can be tamed easily, unlike TB Joshua |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by brabus(m): 1:45pm On Mar 10, 2016 |
texazzpete: Baba, the TB Joshua came and go because they bamboozle the MUMUs with CCTV footage of the collapse. I'm sure the guys were at loss as what to ask. They were just busy watching the footage provided by the church. If action was taken earlier enough as we did now, maybe we will get to know something. Let's leave matter for matthaias. Make I no dey form James Bond. Back then, there was no "intelligent discussion going on" Na beer parlour gist and rumors everybody dey carry. Na enemy at work! Blah blah blah. Well I'm not among those who fall for those stories. Meanwhile, my eyes is on the coroner's inquest. By now, we should have the names of the people who are looking into the matter and their background. And how much time they needed. It shouldn't be difficult. We've reached ground zero. Let the investigation begin and let's have it open to public domain. We will see result. But if na all those kangaroo setup. Na lie! #ambode |
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