Tufanja:
@to everyone here and Loj, sonoflucifer, Reyginus, Ishilove & Jackbizzle, etc

Sorry for not attending to the mentions, I am having some serious health problem at the moment, I try to be back asap. Stay sweet in the meanwhile :p.

Awww, sorry dear. I hope you get better soon

Tufanja:
@to everyone here and Loj, sonoflucifer, Reyginus, Ishilove & Jackbizzle, etc

Sorry for not attending to the mentions, I am having some serious health problem at the moment, I try to be back asap. Stay sweet in the meanwhile :p.

Receive my best wishes. Hope you get better soonest.

Tufanja:
@to everyone here and Loj, sonoflucifer, Reyginus, Ishilove & Jackbizzle, etc

Sorry for not attending to the mentions, I am having some serious health problem at the moment, I try to be back asap. Stay sweet in the meanwhile :p.

Very sorry. Get well soon. We need you around.

Get well soon, Tufanja..

Thank for the well wishes! About to do further examinations but with the current medication I can at least feel sort of alive :-).

@ishilove, Loj, Reyginus, SonofLucifer

@Joshthefirst and DaGr8est

You are welcome here, as I have left the non-christian chatbox so that JackBizzle can heal from his trollingparanoiadisease, I wont reply the mentions there but would be willing to attend to topics here :-).

Question: How do you make moral decisions? Based on what grounds?

@ishilove, Loj, Reyginus, SonofLucifer, Joshthefirst, DaGr8est, namebdis4, winner01 etc

Tufanja:
Question: How do you make moral decisions? Based on what grounds?

@ishilove, Loj, Reyginus, SonofLucifer, Joshthefirst, DaGr8est, namebdis4, winner01 etc

To answer you, we have to first defined morality, then try to see why there's need for morality.
Why shd I be moral?
How do I know that am moral or immoral?
What informs my morality?
If I am immoral will I be called to account for my immorality? If yes;
To whom shall I be accountable to?
To answer this question of morality, we must first check if there's a force behind morality. Is morality a law that am bound by? If yes, can there be a moral law without a moral law giver?
When we are done answering this questions then can know what informs our moral decisions.

Tufanja:
@Joshthefirst and DaGr8est

You are welcome here, as I have left the non-christian chatbox so that JackBizzle can heal from his trollingparanoiadisease, I wont reply the mentions there but would be willing to attend to topics here :-).

I actually missed you on the chatbox. You did the right thing by leaving. I'm impressed.

My only issue is that ishilove didn't leave with you.

Tufanja:
Question: How do you make moral decisions? Based on what grounds?

@...Loj...

Hello Tufanja. I'm happy that "es geht dir viel besser". Hopefully you will have totally recovered within a few days

To your question: How do you make moral decisions, or more exactly on what grounds, I can only speak from my personal life. It is not gospel truth and hence, each is to examine and decides if it may apply to him or otherwise.

First and foremost, no (religious) book in my sensing can define a universal ethic or morality, even if the Book claims to have been written by God(s). The reason is simple: For any book to claim to be the divine authority on ethics, that book must have been available everywhere at any given point in time in the history of mankind. Since any god/God can't blame and punish people for not conforming to his will, while they did not and could not have access to it, and were not even aware of the existence of such, then the continuous universality of a religious book is a prerequisite for it to claim divine authority on ethics.

Failure to see any (religious) Book and any Religion for that matter, that has been continuously available everywhere at anytime and in the same form in History, is an obvious testimonial to the fact that, none of them is divine authority on ethics. This however does not mean, they may not be helpful for spiritual ascent.

Now Back to me. I think there are 3 sources that continuously help us, examine and discern what is good and what's wrong. I underline discern and examine, for no one should impose to another as far as what is morally wrong is concerned, apart from issues where people can be potentially harmed.

- Genuine Love: I personally think the most fundamental definition of morality and ethics is found in what is refered to as the golden rule in both its positive and negative form. Do unto others what you would have them do unto you. Do not do unto others what you would not have them do unto you.
A sincere love for all elements of the universe including animals, vegetation, humans, societies, etc. and the desire that we collectively grow and be fulfilled together in harmony, is the chief cornerstone of ethics. We are fruits of love and there is no moment where we are closer to "gods" than when we manifest genuine love in thoughts and deeds unto others. I am tempted to say more than that, but it is definitely not the topic.

- Knowledge as funny as it may seems, knowledge (including but not limited to Science) is very important to ethics. Until we know certain things - for instance the consequences of some action - we may never imagine how wrong our actions or thoughts are. Until the Science behind Climate change has been advanced, almost everyone embraced the overuse of fossil based sources of energy. So Knowledge is key in ethics. Besides I am not only refering to Scientific knowledge but also Spiritual knowledge.

Spiritual knowledge here is the laws that governs the cosmos. Again, No religious Book is necessary here (I did not say useful) as everyone who diligently examines life with his heart, will soon observe certain constant laws. And when help and Spiritual Knowledge is needed by a sincere heart, it is granted to that one. Again, this is not the right place to expand on this. But it leads me to the last point.

- Reflecting and meditating. There are always ethical dillemas. When I face such, I ponder on it, I pray to receive instructions. Sometimes certain spirit helpers come to me and help me discern then what is good and what is not.

Whatever I express is my opinion and the product of my (spiritual) experiences. Every reader should examine it with his heart, and eventually reject what I wrote, if it does not resonate as true deep in one's heart.

Greetings to all. Let's show love to someone today .

Tufanja:
Question: How do you make moral decisions? Based on what grounds?

@ishilove, Loj, Reyginus, SonofLucifer, Joshthefirst, DaGr8est, namebdis4, winner01 etc

We first have to ask ourselves what 'morality' is.

Morality is subjective. It is immoral to marry without a bride's consent, but in some parts of the world 'bride capture' is a way of life.

Some people think snitching is immoral, but the boss loves the snitch.

Pre-marital sex is fornication, and fornication is immoral according to religious doctrines but then again, withing religious folds you find people who fornicate because they consider it immoral.

The ruthless thief terrorising the hood is caught and people want to mete out jungle justice on him with fuel, tires and petrol. But then there is a debate in the mob: killing is wrong, but if they kill this man, is it right? Some say yes, because he is a murdering, no good thief, while others say no, killing him is bad. Let the police handle him.

What is morality? Will it be immoral to kill the the murderer? Is the death penalty immoral?

Morality is highly subjective, and it is dictated by distinct culture, religion and personal beliefs.

LoJ:

Hello Tufanja. I'm happy that "es geht dir viel besser". Hopefully you will have totally recovered within a few days

To your question: How do you make moral decisions, or more exactly on what grounds, I can only speak from my personal life. It is not gospel truth and hence, each is to examine and decides if it may apply to him or otherwise.

First and foremost, no (religious) book in my sensing can define a universal ethic or morality, even if the Book claims to have been written by God(s). The reason is simple: For any book to claim to be the divine authority on ethics, that book must have been available everywhere at any given point in time in the history of mankind. Since any god/God can't blame and punish people for not conforming to his will, while they did not and could not have access to it, and were not even aware of the existence of such, then the continuous universality of a religious book is a prerequisite for it to claim divine authority on ethics.

Failure to see any (religious) Book and any Religion for that matter, that has been continuously available everywhere at anytime and in the same form in History, is an obvious testimonial to the fact that, none of them is divine authority on ethics. This however does not mean, they may not be helpful for spiritual ascent.

Now Back to me. I think there are 3 sources that continuously help us, examine and discern what is good and what's wrong. I underline discern and examine, for no one should impose to another as far as what is morally wrong is concerned, apart from issues where people can be potentially harmed.

- Genuine Love: I personally think the most fundamental definition of morality and ethics is found in what is refered to as the golden rule in both its positive and negative form. Do unto others what you would have them do unto you. Do not do unto others what you would not have them do unto you.
A sincere love for all elements of the universe including animals, vegetation, humans, societies, etc. and the desire that we collectively grow and be fulfilled together in harmony, is the chief cornerstone of ethics. We are fruits of love and there is no moment where we are closer to "gods" than when we manifest genuine love in thoughts and deeds unto others. I am tempted to say more than that, but it is definitely not the topic.

- Knowledge as funny as it may seems, knowledge (including but not limited to Science) is very important to ethics. Until we know certain things - for instance the consequences of some action - we may never imagine how wrong our actions or thoughts are. Until the Science behind Climate change has been advanced, almost everyone embraced the overuse of fossil based sources of energy. So Knowledge is key in ethics. Besides I am not only refering to Scientific knowledge but also Spiritual knowledge.

Spiritual knowledge here is the laws that governs the cosmos. Again, No religious Book is necessary here (I did not say useful) as everyone who diligently examines life with his heart, will soon observe certain constant laws. And when help and Spiritual Knowledge is needed by a sincere heart, it is granted to that one. Again, this is not the right place to expand on this. But it leads me to the last point.

- Reflecting and meditating. There are always ethical dillemas. When I face such, I ponder on it, I pray to receive instructions. Sometimes certain spirit helpers come to me and help me discern then what is good and what is not.

Whatever I express is my opinion and the product of my (spiritual) experiences. Every reader should examine it with his heart, and eventually reject what I wrote, if it does not resonate as true deep in one's heart.

Greetings to all. Let's show love to someone today .

Zen

Ishilove:

Zen

Hello Ishilove.

I'm not sure to understand your comment. Still, thank you for your submission.

LoJ:

Hello Ishilove.

I'm not sure to understand your comment. Still, thank you for your submission.

Zen is hippie for 'cool stuff'.

Are you a geek? And I mean that in a good way. You are so adorable!

*pinches his cheek and ruffles his hair*

Ishilove:

Zen is hippie for 'cool stuff'.

Ahh ok. Thank you then.

Ishilove:
Are you a geek? And I mean that in a good way. You are so adorable!

If you mean by Geek that I'm intelligent, no definitely not .

Thank you once again. When are u resuming with soul spasms?

Cool thread.

LoJ:

Ahh ok. Thank you then.


If you mean by Geek that I'm intelligent, no definitely not .

Thank you once again. When are u resuming with soul spasms?

How very modest

I will be resuming very soon and hopefully it will be way better than the previous efforts because this time, I will be bringing in experience gathered during my hiatus.

Tufanja:
Question: How do you make moral decisions? Based on what grounds?

@ishilove, Loj, Reyginus, SonofLucifer, Joshthefirst, DaGr8est, namebdis4, winner01 etc

How do I make moral decisions?

I make moral decisions based on the standard of God's objectivity.

I believe there is an objective morality, and I believe humans like being relative.

Objective by definition means real outside of/independent of perception.

Think of it this way, there is an objective object capable of casting an objective image, but we all have different lenses with different focal points in our environments which we use. to reflect and cast those images. Some people cast real images, some virtual, but our relativity does not cancel out God's objectivity, and we will indeed be judged by his lofty standards.

The best bet is to look for the lens which he has provided, so that we will be able to see and appreciate and know and become the real objective image of God himself.

This lens is a person. I'm guessing you know who I'm talking of by now. His name is in my signature.

Edited

Tufanja:
Question: How do you make moral decisions? Based on what grounds?

Ah,, sometimes I just throw a dice.

sonOfLucifer:

Ah,, sometimes I just throw a dice.

I hear. Mr nice guy.

sonOfLucifer:
Ah,, sometimes I just throw a dice.

There's no evil in you.

analice107:

There's no evil in you.

Joshthefirst:
I hear. Mr nice guy.

sonOfLucifer:

Are you surprised?

analice107:

Are you surprised?

Yeah. Really

sonOfLucifer:

Ah,, sometimes I just throw a dice.

What do the six possible options encompass then?

#you player

Joshthefirst:
How do I make moral decisions?

I make moral decisions based on the standard of God's objectivity.

I believe there is an objective morality, and I believe humans like being relative.

Objective by definition means real outside of/independent of perception.

Think of it this way, there is an objective object capable of casting an objective image, but we all have different lenses with different focal points in our environments which we use. to reflect and cast those images. Some people cast real images, some virtual, but our relativity does not cancel out God's objectivity, and we will indeed be judged by his lofty standards.

The best bet is to look for the lens which he has provided, so that we will be able to see and appreciate and know and become the real objective image of God himself.

This lens is a person. I'm guessing you know who I'm talking of by now. His name is in my signature.

Edited

Please, have some patience with me, I am trying to understand.
So according to you, I need to use a lens to make a moral decision and that lens should be JC? So suppose I find myself caught between a rock and a hard place, what should I do? Wondering what JC would do or told us to do? In that type of reasoning the problem is that JC didn't give clear cut answers and definitely not for the complex modern life we are living in now. So then it all turns down on your interpretation of what you think JC would do, a sort of derived interpretation based on his basic sets of ideas and principles?

Ishilove:

We first have to ask ourselves what 'morality' is.

Morality is subjective. It is immoral to marry without a bride's consent, but in some parts of the world 'bride capture' is a way of life.

Some people think snitching is immoral, but the boss loves the snitch.

Pre-marital sex is fornication, and fornication is immoral according to religious doctrines but then again, withing religious folds you find people who fornicate because they consider it immoral.

The ruthless thief terrorising the hood is caught and people want to mete out jungle justice on him with fuel, tires and petrol. But then there is a debate in the mob: killing is wrong, but if they kill this man, is it right? Some say yes, because he is a murdering, no good thief, while others say no, killing him is bad. Let the police handle him.

What is morality? Will it be immoral to kill the the murderer? Is the death penalty immoral?

Morality is highly subjective, and it is dictated by distinct culture, religion and personal beliefs.

So, on what would you base your decisions, also on culture, religion and personal beliefs and what role does play conscience in it, if any?

analice107:

To answer you, we have to first defined morality, then try to see why there's need for morality.
Why shd I be moral?
How do I know that am moral or immoral?
What informs my morality?
If I am immoral will I be called to account for my immorality? If yes;
To whom shall I be accountable to?
To answer this question of morality, we must first check if there's a force behind morality. Is morality a law that am bound by? If yes, can there be a moral law without a moral law giver?
When we are done answering this questions then can know what informs our moral decisions.

Thanks for the contribution and the relevant questions.
Maybe you can try to answer a few of the questions with your personal take on it so that we all can ponder about it?

Tufanja:


Please, have some patience with me, I am trying to understand.
So according to you, I need to use a lens to make a moral decision and that lens should be JC? So suppose I find myself caught between a rock and a hard place, what should I do? Wondering what JC would do or told us to do? In that type of reasoning the problem is that JC didn't give clear cut answers and definitely not for the complex modern life we are living in now. So then it all turns down on your interpretation of what you think JC would do, a sort of derived interpretation based on his basic sets of ideas and principles?

lol.

I mean you need to make moral decision based on your knowledge of God, and his objective standards, and that knowledge is possible only through Jesus. As he is the correct lens that God has provided for us. Getting those lens requires a free spiritual rebirth.

JC actually gave us principles affecting every area of life and God. They're all in the good book.

One good thing he said to believers was: "Love one another, as I have loved you". That pretty much covers it all.

Conscience plays a role too, but conscience can be modified, and dulled by personal and environmental factors.

LoJ:

Hello Tufanja. I'm happy that "es geht dir viel besser". Hopefully you will have totally recovered within a few days

To your question: How do you make moral decisions, or more exactly on what grounds, I can only speak from my personal life. It is not gospel truth and hence, each is to examine and decides if it may apply to him or otherwise.

First and foremost, no (religious) book in my sensing can define a universal ethic or morality, even if the Book claims to have been written by God(s). The reason is simple: For any book to claim to be the divine authority on ethics, that book must have been available everywhere at any given point in time in the history of mankind. Since any god/God can't blame and punish people for not conforming to his will, while they did not and could not have access to it, and were not even aware of the existence of such, then the continuous universality of a religious book is a prerequisite for it to claim divine authority on ethics.

Failure to see any (religious) Book and any Religion for that matter, that has been continuously available everywhere at anytime and in the same form in History, is an obvious testimonial to the fact that, none of them is divine authority on ethics. This however does not mean, they may not be helpful for spiritual ascent.

Now Back to me. I think there are 3 sources that continuously help us, examine and discern what is good and what's wrong. I underline discern and examine, for no one should impose to another as far as what is morally wrong is concerned, apart from issues where people can be potentially harmed.

- Genuine Love: I personally think the most fundamental definition of morality and ethics is found in what is refered to as the golden rule in both its positive and negative form. Do unto others what you would have them do unto you. Do not do unto others what you would not have them do unto you.
A sincere love for all elements of the universe including animals, vegetation, humans, societies, etc. and the desire that we collectively grow and be fulfilled together in harmony, is the chief cornerstone of ethics. We are fruits of love and there is no moment where we are closer to "gods" than when we manifest genuine love in thoughts and deeds unto others. I am tempted to say more than that, but it is definitely not the topic.

- Knowledge as funny as it may seems, knowledge (including but not limited to Science) is very important to ethics. Until we know certain things - for instance the consequences of some action - we may never imagine how wrong our actions or thoughts are. Until the Science behind Climate change has been advanced, almost everyone embraced the overuse of fossil based sources of energy. So Knowledge is key in ethics. Besides I am not only refering to Scientific knowledge but also Spiritual knowledge.

Spiritual knowledge here is the laws that governs the cosmos. Again, No religious Book is necessary here (I did not say useful) as everyone who diligently examines life with his heart, will soon observe certain constant laws. And when help and Spiritual Knowledge is needed by a sincere heart, it is granted to that one. Again, this is not the right place to expand on this. But it leads me to the last point.

- Reflecting and meditating. There are always ethical dillemas. When I face such, I ponder on it, I pray to receive instructions. Sometimes certain spirit helpers come to me and help me discern then what is good and what is not.

Whatever I express is my opinion and the product of my (spiritual) experiences. Every reader should examine it with his heart, and eventually reject what I wrote, if it does not resonate as true deep in one's heart.

Greetings to all. Let's show love to someone today .

Thanks for your nice write up, LoJ (btw, I am curious whats the moniker is all about?). With your analysis of the 3 sources you gave us some interesting food for thought. I am basically struggling with the reflection and meditating part used to discern what is the best in certain situations (in combination with the two other sources). What if the reflection and meditation in the end also doesn't lead to direction? And how can someone be sure the direction is not a form of misguiding own hallucination?

On a side note, unfortunately, my health problem is more structural so its gonna take some time to examine and to find causes/solutions. I am referred to other specialist for that. But for as long as I can finish what I came to do here in this country, I dont wanna complain. If I don't know how to survive, you as my old neighbour should come and rescue me here ;-)!

JackBizzle:






I actually missed you on the chatbox. You did the right thing by leaving. I'm impressed.

My only issue is that ishilove didn't leave with you.

Oh dear, didn't we survive hotter fires than this one?

How can the armor of a knight (I wont define which type of knight, I am colorblind ) be bothered by a mosquito in the room?

Wish you a happy weekend, although I don't really know what makes you happy, but if there is anything I can do you will tell me (just that you know that I cant make Arsenal win, thats out of the reach of my magic powers ;-).

Tufanja:
Thanks for your nice write up, LoJ (btw, I am curious whats the moniker is all about?).

Hello Tufanja. Thank you for the compliment. I love reading your posts, as there is always some dose of light shining out of them. (I think I have already told u that )

LoJ stands for Lionel of Jesus.

What if the reflection and meditation in the end also doesn't lead to direction? And how can someone be sure the direction is not a form of misguiding own hallucination?

We humans always want easy answers to problems. And we sometimes expect that God or any messenger or even pastor etc. will tell us what to do in a given circumstance.

From my experience this is not the way to spiritual growth. How would your child grow, if you were always by his side telling him what to do? The child must learn to examine, analyse, check his motives, and do his own choices. Yes, sometimes, the choices shall be wrong. He will then observe the consequences of his choice and have the opportunity to learn from his failure.

So the religious attitude of some pastors imams priests, to tell people what they should in any given circumstances is wrong, as it prevents them from making choices and learning from experience. Life is a mirror: What you send in, you receive it back in multiples. And from what you receive, you can deduce the quality and nature of what you sent in and thereby grow.

Therefore reflecting and meditating on a dilemma does not mean a specific direction will necessarily come miraculously. It is simply an effort to check your motives, ensure sincerity and genuine of love in the depth of your heart, evaluate the situation from the best of your knowledge etc. then make a decision. Of course it opens you to receive help from the divine, but rarely will you receive concrete directions about what you should specifically do.

I, personally, am regularly visited by spirit helpers from the beyond. Many of the things I say, I learn it from them. Still, I have observed they always give general principles and leave it to me to make choices and bear the responsibility attached thereto.

Again, this is my experience, and is no gospel truth. Feel free to reject it or subject if to deep criticism. Let no one be not afraid to air his doubts or criticism about my opinions here, so that I too may have an opportunity to correct any misconception, and grow some more.

Love u you all .