wiegraf:
you do a decent job tho. sometimes i want to shoot you

Hmm.. Thanks. Grateful to you and plaetton.

sonOfLucifer:

Hmm.. Thanks. Grateful to you and plaetton.

na only saraki dey confirmed so far? i go laff tire if buhari shows up. when they get to americans ehn... tho there might be only a handful of them due to uncle sam's dilligence when it comes to tax

wiegraf:
na only saraki dey confirmed so far? i go laff tire if buhari shows up. when they get to americans ehn... tho there might be only a handful of them due to uncle sam's dilligence when it comes to tax

Hello. In three years I may have received even more light on the issue of yhwh and freewill.

Do you have children?
The knowledge of God does not do away with our wills. He knows us completely.

Just as your knowledge of your son will enable you to accurately predict his actions in relation to various circumstances and not corrupt his will also.
Compare with God's superior knowledge and his timelessness. See?

I hope you consider this erudite analogy.

texanomaly:


Actually, I'm not a fence sitter. I think your position is completely wrong and you are missing out on a great deal of blessings because of it. I simply don't wish to argue about it. fortunately, we are free to believe what we will.

Yes we are, even if I may know you so well, and so completely, to understand that this would be your exact reaction.
My knowledge of you does not violate your right of choice or action

TheHarbinger:
Hello. In three years I may have received even more light on the issue of yhwh and freewill.

Do you have children?
The knowledge of God does not do away with our wills. He knows us completely.

Just as your knowledge of your son will enable you to accurately predict his actions in relation to various circumstances and not corrupt his will also.
Compare with God's superior knowledge and his timelessness. See?

I hope you consider this erudite analogy.

it still fails brah. for starters, i would be predicting his actions. nothing stopping my prediction from being wrong. if my prediction has no chance of failing it stops being one. it then becomes a determined fact, one that cannot be deviated from. once actions can be determined absolutely then there is, and never has been, no free will

sonOfLucifer:

New phrase you learnt? How can you refer to a question as non sequitur?

Here's how understand non sequitur : I learnt it is a Latin phrase that means “it doesn’t follow”. Here “non” means not and “sequitur” means to follow. If that be a question, phrase of fact...so far it doesn't follow its non sequitur
I hope you get the logic

Oh, it is. Because it seems a whole lot of you think one's position on God is an option between atheism and Christianity. Atheism is the direct opposite of theism. Christianity, Islam, ATR's and the Pantheon of God's they worship are subsets of theism. So even if I happen to believe in God tomorrow, he doesn't necessarily have to be the same one who spoke to Abraham or Muhammed.

You've still not said anything and this still does not relate in anyway to the question. This is still a non sequitur.
Like I have said before, if you want to pose the argument, open up a new thread and call me into it. Its not hard to do innit??

Read above. The right school is a headache you and your fellow theists to solve. There's only one 'noGod' and many 'Gods'.. Lol.

Non sequitur, Non sequitur, Non sequitur, Non sequitur, Non sequitur, Non sequitur, Non sequitur, Non sequitur

Thanks for explaining clearly how the Quran, Bible and other Holy books came about. God never meant to go public. He's all personal, like an idea and body odor.

You love quotin' things out of context don't you?
Did you miss the part about the indirect communication?
Did you miss the part that every, I meant every one has a thesis.
If everyone has a thesis, everyone has a supervisor - thesis here could mean purpose, destiny etc.
Exactly how irrational do you reason?

logoscope:



I'm not trying to convert anyone. The fact that I use Christianity in my examples is only because I was formerly a Christian. I also know a bit about other religions. Its atheism vs theism, not atheism vs Christianity. You definitely have the right to your opinions.

This does not answer my question but lets leave this at this..

Might I ask of the conviction you got that resulted in your person turning towards atheism??

wiegraf:
na only saraki dey confirmed so far? i go laff tire if buhari shows up. when they get to americans ehn... tho there might be only a handful of them due to uncle sam's dilligence when it comes to tax

Atiku, Obasanjo. We're led by hungry wolves. Seems 'corruption' is the new racism... The elites vs the rest of us.

BossTtdiamonds:

Exactly how irrational do you reason?

Apologies Bro.

wiegraf:
it still fails brah. for starters, i would be predicting his actions. nothing stopping my prediction from being wrong. if my prediction has no chance of failing it stops being one. it then becomes a determined fact, one that cannot be deviated from. once actions can be determined absolutely then there is, and never has been, no free will

your prediction is based on your knowledge of him. God knows completely.

TheHarbinger:
your prediction is based on your knowledge of him. God knows completely.

i have already addressed this actually. once complete knowledge is attainable then that means the future is determined... btw, there are also more practical problems with omniscience so...

wiegraf:
i have already addressed this actually. once complete knowledge is attainable then that means the future is determined... btw, there are also more practical problems with omniscience so...

Not necessarily. But lets cordially disagree

sonOfLucifer:

Hmm.. Thanks. Grateful to you and plaetton.

who is your mother?

TheHarbinger:

Yes we are, even if I may know you so well, and so completely, to understand that this would be your exact reaction.
My knowledge of you does not violate your right of choice or action

Who is this?

texanomaly:


Who is this?

wiegraf's schoolmaster. Sorry for quoting you unexpectedly.

TheHarbinger:
wiegraf's schoolmaster. Sorry for quoting you unexpectedly.

wiegraf get alter ego sef?

texanomaly:

wiegraf get alter ego sef?

cool.

TheHarbinger:
Not necessarily. But lets cordially disagree

Who do you think you are? People don't cordially disagree in these parts!

some technical problems with omniscience and/or free will include;

-there's an infinite regress when trying to collect the data - the observer cannot observe himself without causing infinite loop
-relativity essentially ensures that the future is set in stone. Some caveats? Perhaps. But you can't really get around that. Even without fancy theories you can sort of show that the future is set in stone.

texanomaly:

wiegraf get alter ego sef?

wiegraf:


Who do you think you are? People don't cordially disagree in these parts!

some technical problems with omniscience and/or free will include;

-there's an infinite regress when trying to collect the data - the observer cannot observe himself without causing infinite loop
-relativity essentially ensures that the future is set in stone. Some caveats? Perhaps. But you can't really get around that. Even without fancy theories you can sort of show that the future is set in stone.

I am your schoolmaster. But if I explain that to you, people who think we are the same person will think you're talking to yourself...but what if you are? What if you have run mad in your atheism, and I am the result if your insanity? An alter ego moniker on nairaland, challenging your excuses and foundations of unbelief.

You may have dissociative personality disorder. Who knows? What is real and what have you imagined the last few days? How is it that I suddenly spring up again after all these years to bring up the omniscient question?
Could it be that your own brain is pushing against your refusal to examine these things from another frame of reference? These are all heavy probabilities, No?

And these statements will only make your fellows believe even more that I'm you trolling myself, in any case, maybe a medical examination would be advisable at this point. Narrate your suspicions of DPD to the doctor to give him the right lead also. Or at least check up classic symptoms of DPD on the web then. Don't take the obvious path ordinary you would take, which is dismiss all this ranting as whagarbl.

Here is my response to your so)called technicalities(or could it be your response to yourself while seeing things from the logical reference?)

-There is no infinite regress in data collection as there is no stage of data collection at all. Omniscience, WRT OUR REALITY is taken to be a logical quality of a being who is the origin of our reality, and is transcendent over it. See?
-The future set in stone vs us having various actions or choices rolled over other actions and choices. The future cannot overhaul our present independence. We do not know this set future, and the most likely scene is us, in the future, choosing our so-called set reality by ourselves.
All the claims that omniscience distorts freewill, or the other way round, take up an imaginative quality at best, belied by our present independence.

sonOfLucifer:

troll

texanomaly:

wiegraf get alter ego sef?

But who knows if I am truly wiegraf's alter ego? Who knows if I am simply an insane wiegraf suffering with another personality? That would mean my life and reality is mostly a figment of wiegraf's imagination.

How painful.

Lolololol. Wiewie don buy market.

Muskeeto, Wiegraf, JackBizzle, etc., please how do you recall an already deleted file from your phone memory? Any way?

texanomaly:


Actually I'm one of them. I do believe God exists. He exists beyond the shadow of a doubt for me, but I'm also aware that I cannot prove that to someone else.

Knowing God is something that must be experienced personally. A personal relationship with God is not something that can be explained into existence.

I do wish everyone felt the joy and love that I feel. I won't try to force my beliefs on anyone though.

Very well. Don't worry too much about other peoples' love and joy tho. We all have our sources.

BossTtdiamonds:


This does not answer my question but lets leave this at this..

Might I ask of the conviction you got that resulted in your person turning towards atheism??

Lol. Religion involves conviction, since each religion is supposed to be exclusively true. Atheism requires common sense.

Reyginus:
Muskeeto, Wiegraf, JackBizzle, etc., please how do you recall an already deleted file from your phone memory? Any way?

Depends. there's this, but not sure if it recovers random files (as opposed to just pictures, contacts and the rest)

http://www.recovery-android.com/recover-data-from-android.html

there's this, but I'm not sure if it checks your protected/internal memory, even with root

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=fahrbot.apps.undelete

Likely many others in store, so just check around.

Anyways, don't add any new files/shift files around for now. Essentially, stop using it for trivial stuff until you've recovered your data. if all else fails, if you can access the drive from a PC, try using one of the PC data retrieval tools on said drive (though not sure about file system types; depending on setup, there might be compatibility issues)

wiegraf:


Depends. there's this, but not sure if it recovers random files (as opposed to just pictures, contacts and the rest)

http://www.recovery-android.com/recover-data-from-android.html

there's this, but I'm not sure if it checks your protected/internal memory, even with root

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=fahrbot.apps.undelete

Likely many others in store, so just check around.

Anyways, don't add any new files/shift files around for now. Essentially, stop using it for trivial stuff until you've recovered your data. if all else fails, if you can access the drive from a PC, try using one of the PC data retrieval tools on said drive (though not sure about file system types; depending on setup, there might be compatibility issues)

thank you, let me try this.

TheHarbinger:
I am your schoolmaster. But if I explain that to you, people who think we are the same person will think you're talking to yourself...but what if you are? What if you have run mad in your atheism, and I am the result if your insanity? An alter ego moniker on nairaland, challenging your excuses and foundations of unbelief.

You may have dissociative personality disorder. Who knows? What is real and what have you imagined the last few days? How is it that I suddenly spring up again after all these years to bring up the omniscient question?
Could it be that your own brain is pushing against your refusal to examine these things from another frame of reference? These are all heavy probabilities, No?

And these statements will only make your fellows believe even more that I'm you trolling myself, in any case, maybe a medical examination would be advisable at this point. Narrate your suspicions of DPD to the doctor to give him the right lead also. Or at least check up classic symptoms of DPD on the web then. Don't take the obvious path ordinary you would take, which is dismiss all this ranting as whagarbl.

You're lying.

- I've been taking my medication. My doctor is very, very fussy. Personally comes around to give me the drugs. Watson is his name, I believe he has a reputation
- Any alter ego of mine would know better than to assume we could end this cordially

TheHarbinger:

Here is my response to your so)called technicalities(or could it be your response to yourself while seeing things from the logical reference?)

-There is no infinite regress in data collection as there is no stage of data collection at all. Omniscience, WRT OUR REALITY is taken to be a logical quality of a being who is the origin of our reality, and is transcendent over it. See?

How can a being logically know all about a reality without collecting data?

And if it created all the data, and all the data must conform to it, then exactly how is does the data have free will? this is like saying characters in a book have free will.

And still the regression remains, especially if the being remains an active agent. From state 1, He must observe himself at state 0 and know his thinking. then he must observe himself at state 1 from state 2 to know his thinking. And so on till infinity..

TheHarbinger:

-The future set in stone vs us having various actions or choices rolled over other actions and choices. The future cannot overhaul our present independence. We do not know this set future, and the most likely scene is us, in the future, choosing our so-called set reality by ourselves.
All the claims that omniscience distorts freewill, or the other way round, take up an imaginative quality at best, belied by our present independence.

that independence is fake, illusory, as you must follow a script. that is no true independence, at all, so the rest is void. You aren't choosing a set reality by yourself, a script has already been laid out which you must follow, unwittingly or no. It might feel like you can change the future, but no, it must come to pass. Else your god would be wrong.

When you consider that your god allegedly created everything, then the case becomes even worse.

Not sure how you consider following a script like a character in a book translates to free will....

Reyginus:
thank you, let me try this.

I dunno man. this strikes me as a little polite. Not sure what I did to deserve it...

wiegraf:


I dunno man. this strikes me as a little polite. Not sure what I did to deserve it...

Lololol You an asshole.

Reyginus:
Lololol You an asshole.

you're welcome