I asked a question here the other day, which is better to import or buy and I good advice. See thread here: https://www.nairaland.com/3015502/import-car-minivan-buy-locally

Am here again to ask for more advice.

I want to invest some $$$$ in a couple of sectors including the transportation industry.

I would appreciate advice from mechanics and drivers and transporters.

It is clear that as far as transportation is concerned in minivans, that the Toyota Sienna is king of the road.

What I need to know as a greenhorn is which to buy and why.

Right now am considering 2004, 2005 and 2006.

All I know for now is that it should be an 8 seater, what I don't know is what trim etc.

Any help would be highly appreciated.

the first generation is more rugged than the second generation. It will also be cheaper to maintain than the second generation.

the second Gen has better leg room and ample cargo space but at full capacity the first generation has a slightly higher ground clearance than the second generation.

another advantage the second has over the first is the second window roll down. the first generation has blocked window here which causes heat build up in holdup or hot weather.

both generation share engine parts with a lot of cars, camry, Solara, avalon, Lexus RX series, highlander.

if you going for the first generation, the 2001 to 2003 has a better fuel economy than 1997 to 2000 because the engine was revised then.

nurey:
the first generation is more rugged than the second generation. It will also be cheaper to maintain than the second generation.

the second Gen has better leg room and ample cargo space but at full capacity the first generation has a slightly higher ground clearance than the second generation.

another advantage the second has over the first is the second window roll down. the first generation has blocked window here which causes heat build up in holdup or hot weather.

both generation share engine parts with a lot of cars, camry, Solara, avalon, Lexus RX series, highlander.

if you going for the first generation, the 2001 to 2003 has a better fuel economy than 1997 to 2000 because the engine was revised then.

Thanks Nurey.

I really wonder why people keep saying that the first generation is more rugged than the second. I would like data to back up that claim.

As for the issue of cheaper to maintain, we made some enquiries and learnt that if the first generation uses 12,000.00 petrol for say Lagos to Port Harcourt, the second generation uses 10,000.00

Actually we are not considering the first generation because
1. given a choice between first generation and second generation, travelers tend to prefer the second generation and because of
2. slight improvements in fuel economy and
3. the window issue which Toyota got wrong but Mazda got right in 1999/2000, and which Toyota subsequently corrected in the next model
4. the 3.0 v6 engine is very sludge prone but the 3.3 v6 is not so i can run full synthetics and a longer OCI (6,213 miles or 10,000 km) given that each run we will be doing is over 500km or 800km, we hope to get 30 MPG on open roads which is not possible with the 3.0v6 engine in the 2000 - 2003 models (that should further reduce operating costs)

We did not consider this, but we can add it to our reasons:

5. better leg room
6. more ample cargo space

What i have not been able to decide on is whether to go for 2WD or 4WD or CE, LE, XLE/XLE Limited

Maybe I need to some more research.

Thanks so much

just learnt from Toyota Nation that AWD Sienna's have no space designed for a spare of any kind!

so where does it go?

MPVGoddess:
just learnt from Toyota Nation that AWD Sienna's have no space designed for a spare of any kind!

so where does it go?

if fuel economy is of concern stay away from the face lift 2007 upwards. the engine was revised from 3.3 to 3.5 and mpg dropped. Also fwd has a better mpg than awd especially in highway driving.
The leather of the second generation is nothing to write home about, not as puffy as the first generation xle and symphony edition.

I have been in both cars and weighed them side by side. I think the extra tyre goes under where the exhaust is also having a trailer anchor mount helps protect the bumper from hitting the ground.
like I said the only advantage the 2nd has over the first is still the second row window. go to jibowu and see how 1st generation sienna outshine the second.

U av ur mind set on d second gen already

Dont waste any more time then


Do the 04/05...2MZ-FE fwd

Avoid the 06/07 2gr-fe

LE trim is okay...aslong as u avoid the AWD

While AWD isnt bad,i feel its not needed since u want to use it for transportation

nurey:


if fuel economy is of concern stay away from the face lift 2007 upwards. the engine was revised from 3.3 to 3.5 and mpg dropped. Also fwd has a better mpg than awd especially in highway driving.
The leather of the second generation is nothing to write home about, not as puffy as the first generation xle and symphony edition.

I have been in both cars and weighed them side by side. I think the extra tyre goes under where the exhaust is also having a trailer anchor mount helps protect the bumper from hitting the ground.
like I said the only advantage the 2nd has over the first is still the second row window. go to jibowu and see how 1st generation sienna outshine the second.

Thanks, am told at least one transport company uses the 3.5, i think they mentioned auto...something, but am not considering those, 3.3 is ok for me!

Anywhere I think the AWD tire issue is because originally they came with runflats, which have since been replaced with normal tires as at the time of purchase as tokunbo

diportivo:
U av ur mind set on d second gen already

Dont waste any more time then


Do the 04/05...2MZ-FE fwd

Avoid the 06/07 2gr-fe

LE trim is okay...aslong as u avoid the AWD

While AWD isnt bad,i feel its not needed since u want to use it for transportation

yea agreed, that am sold on the 04/05.

What is confounding with me is which of the trims to go for and why: 2WD or 4WD or CE, LE, XLE/XLE Limited

Could you help me with why LE over the rest, I get your reason for 2WD over AWD

MPVGoddess:


yea agreed, that am sold on the 04/05.

What is confounding with me is which of the trims to go for and why: 2WD or 4WD or CE, LE, XLE/XLE Limited

Could you help me with why LE over the rest, I get your reason for 2WD over AWD

The higher the trim,the higher u pay to buy it

For transportation,u need to maximize ur profit....and since the ce will deliver the same output as the xle engine wise,the cheaper variant should be ur best bet...

I chose the le cos of its slightly higher ground clearance.its an alloy wheel with bigger tyres.....it clld even come with a dvd entertainment system...for the price of an le still

Xle,dvd or no dvd,price shld be higher

diportivo:


The higher the trim,the higher u pay to buy it

For transportation,u need to maximize ur profit....and since the ce will deliver the same output as the xle engine wise,the cheaper variant should be ur best bet...

I chose the le cos of its slightly higher ground clearance.its an alloy wheel with bigger tyres.....it clld even come with a dvd entertainment system...for the price of an le still

Xle,dvd or no dvd,price shld be higher

Thanks so much, i don't play in the Toyota league so I desperately need help to score!

MPVGoddess:


yea agreed, that am sold on the 04/05.

What is confounding with me is which of the trims to go for and why: 2WD or 4WD or CE, LE, XLE/XLE Limited

Could you help me with why LE over the rest, I get your reason for 2WD over AWD

first I won't brush against the Awd variant with full load, the fwd does poorly in rough road and muddy surface. AWD will increase traction and better handling difference in mpg is just 2.

well for the variant to go for, what you should be adamant on is
1.Roof rack the car must have one to help increase luggage area. some selected variants don't have.
2.leather seats to make cleaning easy and also for comfort. cloth can get customers wears dirty and loses finesse overtime
3. Roof DVD can add to patronage after all been entertained while awake boost customers morale.
4. 16inch rim is better or any higher rim number, 15inch would cost you change of tyre or change of rim anyone you prefer. you need more ground clearance reason for this.

so which ever trim that has all this, is the winner. my neighbour's own has the automatic slide door lock and open mechanism.the day it decided to misbehave we couldn't open the door even manually from inside and outside.

nurey:


if fuel economy is of concern stay away from the face lift 2007 upwards. the engine was revised from 3.3 to 3.5 and mpg dropped. Also fwd has a better mpg than awd especially in highway driving.
The leather of the second generation is nothing to write home about, not as puffy as the first generation xle and symphony edition.

I have been in both cars and weighed them side by side. I think the extra tyre goes under where the exhaust is also having a trailer anchor mount helps protect the bumper from hitting the ground.
like I said the only advantage the 2nd has over the first is still the second row window. go to jibowu and see how 1st generation sienna outshine the second.

a 1st gen 97-02 sienna CANNOT outshine a 2nd gen sienna 04-06 in any way. Except from the test car unit you are observing.

kingreign:


a 1st gen 97-02 sienna CANNOT outshine a 2nd gen sienna 04-06 in any way. Except from the test car unit you are observing.

you Don carry your wahala tag me again. I thought you should be queuing for fuel by now
outshine as used in my context is "for every 5 first generation you come across, you will see 1 second generation" being used

nurey:


you Don carry your wahala tag me again. I thought you should be queuing for fuel by now
outshine as used in my context is "for every 5 first generation you come across, you will see 1 second generation" being used

I don buy fuel today after queuing for 2 hours and paid 500 naira
but the 2nd gen is luxurious, bigger, spacious, beautiful "effizysious", swaggalicious than the 1st gen.

kingreign:


I don buy fuel today after queuing for 2 hours and paid 500 naira
but the 2nd gen is luxurious, bigger, spacious, beautiful "effizysious", swaggalicious than the 1st gen.

for your mind. lucky you, am about to embark on a 1000km journey again and fuel here is 187 naira per litre and very annoying cause I got no option

nurey:
the first generation is more rugged than the second generation. It will also be cheaper to maintain than the second generation.

the second Gen has better leg room and ample cargo space but at full capacity the first generation has a slightly higher ground clearance than the second generation.

another advantage the second has over the first is the second window roll down. the first generation has blocked window here which causes heat build up in holdup or hot weather.

both generation share engine parts with a lot of cars, camry, Solara, avalon, Lexus RX series, highlander.

if you going for the first generation, the 2001 to 2003 has a better fuel economy than 1997 to 2000 because the engine was revised then.

The above quoted is absolutely wrong. The 2nd generation Sienna 3MZ-FE 3.3L engine is less sludge prone compared to the 1st generation.

The 2nd gen is more rugged, spacious, executive & offers a better leg & headroom & more cargo space for transportation plus the luxury of rolling the rear windows down when the air conditioner fails to work. The 1st generation sienna has a very high failure rate of the steering rack, door handles etc. The 2nd generation has a better mpg and a higher ground clearance on 17" rim against the 15/16" of the 1st generation.

In terms of the trim to buy; with a good bargain, you should consider the LE variant with leather seat, & rear entertainment. The FWD offers a spare tyre space underneath the van unlike the AWD which has no space for spare tyre. The FWD also offers a better mpg than the AWD, though the awd gives better traction both on rough roads & during rainfall. On the LE trim, one automatic door is offered. The power door is very sensitive & fixing is expensive.

As per cost of maintenance, there's not much difference between the 1st & 2nd generation Sienna if you buy Genuine OEM spare parts. Your Oil Change Interval should not exceed 5000 miles with 5W-30 SAE spec.

Good luck with your choice.

bravolad:


The above quoted is absolutely wrong. The 2nd generation Sienna 3MZ-FE 3.3L engine is less sludge prone compared to the 1st generation.

The 2nd gen is more rugged, spacious, executive & offers a better leg & headroom & more cargo space for transportation plus the luxury of rolling the rear windows down when the air conditioner fails to work. The 1st generation sienna has a very high failure rate of the steering rack, door handles etc. The 2nd generation has a better mpg and a higher ground clearance on 17" rim against the 15/16" of the 1st generation.

In terms of the trim to buy; with a good bargain, you should consider the LE variant with leather seat, & rear entertainment. The FWD offers a spare tyre space underneath the van unlike the AWD which has no space for spare tyre. The FWD also offers a better mpg than the AWD, though the awd gives better traction both on rough roads & during rainfall. On the LE trim, one automatic door is offered. The power door is very sensitive & fixing is expensive.

As per cost of maintenance, there's not much difference between the 1st & 2nd generation Sienna if you buy Genuine OEM spare parts. Your Oil Change Interval should not exceed 5000 miles with 5W-30 SAE spec.

Good luck with your choice.

you keep saying what you don't know about. just because of a class action law suit. it didn't have anything to do only with sienna, it's about the V6 engine fixed in the car reason why the engine was revised in the 2001 to 2003 model year. keep on thinking the 2nd generation is more rugged than the 1st with its plastic appearance. my older first generation still looks more sturdy than my neighbour's carefully used second generation. And who told you all second generation came with 16 to 17inch rim nah you be futoshiro yamayama

nurey:


you keep saying what you don't know about. just because of a class action law suit. it didn't have anything to do only with sienna, it's about the V6 engine fixed in the car reason why the engine was revised in the 2001 to 2003 model year. keep on thinking the 2nd generation is more rugged than the 1st with its plastic appearance. my older first generation still looks more sturdy than my neighbour's carefully used second generation. And who told you all second generation came with 16 to 17inch rim nah you be futoshiro yamayama

My 2004 Toyota Sienna XLE Limited is 4 years + and could be sold as direct Toks. The only parts I have replaced are one side of the shaft, timing belt & drive belt as a preventive maintenance. Brake pads, oil change & spark plugs. The leather seat is still very clean. Whereas my friend who uses the 1st generation has replaced steering rack twice in three years. He has also replaced door handles among other things.

My review is a result of a first hand experience. Again, the 04/05 Sienna is an improvement of the 1st generation.

bravolad:


My 2004 Toyota Sienna XLE Limited is 4 years + and could be sold as direct Toks. The only parts I have replaced are one side of the shaft, timing belt & drive belt as a preventive maintenance. Brake pads, oil change & spark plugs. The leather seat is still very clean. Whereas my friend who uses the 1st generation has replaced steering rack twice in three years. He has also replaced door handles among other things.

My review is a result of a first hand experience. Again, the 04/05 Sienna is an improvement of the 1st generation.

I know the 2nd was an improvement over the first still doesn't mean it is more rugged or reliable. In my 2yrs plus running the first generation i have only changed one oxygen sensor, changed exhaust mesh and brake pads.the only engine work done is top gasket reseal.

I know the first generation door handles are crap but i have never changed mine. The 01-03 has a better fuel economy to the awd 2nd generation.

There is always a reason why we have more of something the other.

My 2000 sienna CE was bought at 1.5 i could have added 300-500k for the second generation but i declined and i dont regret it.

Nurey no dey give up sha he must defend him sienna anyday

nurey:


I know the 2nd was an improvement over the first still doesn't mean it is more rugged or reliable. In my 2yrs plus running the first generation i have only changed one oxygen sensor, changed exhaust mesh and brake pads.the only engine work done is top gasket reseal.

I know the first generation door handles are crap but i have never changed mine. The 01-03 has a better fuel economy to the awd 2nd generation.

There is always a reason why we have more of something the other.

My 2000 sienna CE was bought at 1.5 i could have added 300-500k for the second generation but i declined and i dont regret it.

Whether you accept it or not, the 2nd generation Sienna will outclass the 1st generation in all department of comparison; performance, ruggedity, luxury, resale value, customer preference in transportation etc. The 2nd generation has a better suspension & better turning radius.

I know you have consistently made conscious efforts to defend your ride, I always see such arguments as purely academic to score a few points.

Healthy debate going on here.

Thanks for all the input, if not because of cost considerations actually the 2006 version is better because of side curtain airbags as a standard option.

I will create a shopping list of must-have options based on all the information presented here!

How important is it to get a vehicle with this package: Vehicle Stability Control (VSC)+ Traction Control (TRAC) — includes windshield de-icer grid, Daytime Running Lights (DRL) and rear disc brakes?


VSC is in a package option for non AWD models and the VSC package is standard in AWD models and XLE Limited. The package includes:

-VSC
-Traction Control
-Rear disc brakes
-Windshield de-icer grid
-Daytime running lights

Courtesy : Toyota Nation

bravolad:


Whether you accept it or not, the 2nd generation Sienna will outclass the 1st generation in all department of comparison; performance, ruggedity, luxury, resale value, customer preference in transportation etc. The 2nd generation has a better suspension & better turning radius.

I know you have consistently made conscious efforts to defend your ride, I always see such arguments as purely academic to score a few points.

I won't gain anything by saying a car is better than another simply because I use it. I have given the op the needed advice and reasons to pick a particular generation over the other. I have not actually discredit or voted for any.

My brother in law 1999 sienna is 7years running and no sludge issue my family friends 2001 sienna is 4 years running and Ill maintained and no sludge issues too.

Inorder to stop the argument from degenerating into unhealthy discussion I will rest my case

MPVGoddess:
Healthy debate going on here.

Thanks for all the input, if not because of cost considerations actually the 2006 version is better because of side curtain airbags as a standard option.

I will create a shopping list of must-have options based on all the information presented here!

How important is it to get a vehicle with this package: Vehicle Stability Control (VSC)+ Traction Control (TRAC) — includes windshield de-icer grid, Daytime Running Lights (DRL) and rear disc brakes?


VSC is in a package option for non AWD models and the VSC package is standard in AWD models and XLE Limited. The package includes:

-VSC
-Traction Control
-Rear disc brakes
-Windshield de-icer grid
-Daytime running lights

Courtesy : Toyota Nation

Vehicle Stability Control just as the name implies ensures that your vehicle goes in the direction that you steer it. Tranction Control keeps wheel spinning when power is applied. Day time running light provides visibility for on coming traffic during severe wheather conditions especially in Europe & countries with constant snow. The Windshield de-icer grid is a heater for the windshield wiper that prevents ice build up on the windshield. Not much of usefulness in this part of the world.

nurey:

for your mind. lucky you, am about to embark on a 1000km journey again and fuel here is 187 naira per litre and very annoying cause I got no option

I don go Kaduna come back you still dey where you dey dey claim 1000km loading. how fa your Micra?

kingreign:

I don go Kaduna come back you still dey where you dey dey claim 1000km loading. how fa your Micra?

My almera is fine. About to do my scene 2 act one with it. Nah around jigawa idey nah. No dissing allowed but I will overlook your Micra comment

bravolad:


Vehicle Stability Control just as the name implies ensures that your vehicle goes in the direction that you steer it. Tranction Control keeps wheel spinning when power is applied. Day time running light provides visibility for on coming traffic during severe wheather conditions especially in Europe & countries with constant snow. The Windshield de-icer grid is a heater for the windshield wiper that prevents ice build up on the windshield. Not much of usefulness in this part of the world.

Day time running lights and Windshield de-icer are attachments of the VSC+TRAC package. So one cannot get the VSC+TRAC without getting them.

My question is more of how critical is VSC+TRAC to the Sienna driving experience or how does a Sienna without this package compare to one with it?

Or simply put, can I ignore this option when creating my list of must-haves or it must be there?

Seems like a nice to have, what I do not get yet, is if it is a must-have.

Read horror stories of the VSC+TRAC turning on when it shouldn't (on absolutely dry roads, and drivers feeling that the vehicle is taking over the driving from them), I think the feature is a good to have feature, but should it break down, how easy is it to fix in Nigeria, I guess it is controlled by two sensors, the yaw sensor and the steering angle sensor.

Has anyone got a run-in with this issue and successfully fixed it here?

Remember I am entering uncharted territory but I am trying my very best not to make a purchase just because nearly every agrees it should be a Sienna but am trying to buy a Sienna that I know will be good for me and my business because I did my homework.

Yea, am not buying one, am buying a fleet, so all this homework becomes all the more important, so the fleet can stay online and not offline because of things I should have prepared for, but did not.

Thanks again!!

A minus for the AWD:

all-wheel-drive versions of the Sienna lose the center seat in the second row and the second-row tip feature (though the seats still slide), and have a seven-passenger capacity. Cargo capacity is unchanged on all-wheel-drive models.
Read more at https://www.cars.com/articles/2014/02/do-you-need-an-all-wheel-drive-minivan/#05su8sGRI0kqLsZ0.99

FWD has better MPG than AWD but AWD is a big issue in slippery roads, the five negatives of the AWD higher repair/maintenance costs, lower fuel economy, no space for a spare tire, 7 passenger instead of 8 and tires will require replacement sooner. One can safely do without the AWD for this application.

VOTE: FWD wins!

If the vehicle was going to be bought for personal or family usage, then we would have aimed for the XLE or XLE Limited.

But because are are aiming at commercial utilization, the trims that have the best advantage with respect to seating capacity are CE and LE.

it is worthy to note that all the trims come with 7 seater as standard, but the 8 seats were an option available for just the CE and the LE, while the option could not be fitted to the XLE or XLE Limited.

Like the 5th post suggested, why go for the base edition, if you can get better? So we are getting the LE with as many options as possible.

VOTE: LE carries the day! Thanks diportivo and bravolad!!

Interesting. I think Op should focus on considering the purpose of the vehicle and which is best to maximize his profit. Like someone pointed out earlier....stuff like rare entertainment...a later model bus...leather seats..... these are the stuff that would attract passengers. FWD or AWD?....decision should be made on road condition....if is all good paved road...FWD....less fuel..less expensive maintenance. If the roads are poor and do get like off road condition....then AWD is the way to go...with tow bar attached as suggested earlier....while others get stuck you just keep cruising on....and that would bring you even more riders.So take all these stuffs into consideration...including roof rack....afterall....this is about business.

Originalsly:
Interesting. I think Op should focus on considering the purpose of the vehicle and which is best to maximize his profit. Like someone pointed out earlier....stuff like rare entertainment...a later model bus...leather seats..... these are the stuff that would attract passengers. FWD or AWD?....decision should be made on road condition....if is all good paved road...FWD....less fuel..less expensive maintenance. If the roads are poor and do get like off road condition....then AWD is the way to go...with tow bar attached as suggested earlier....while others get stuck you just keep cruising on....and that would bring you even more riders.So take all these stuffs into consideration...including roof rack....afterall....this is about business.

Toyota AWD on the Sienna is part-time, only works when it senses loss of traction at the rear.

Van is really heavy, with careful driving on the FWD one can still manage without and avoid unnecessary expense and complexity.

Without all of these issues one can get a sienna for around $2,000 to $2,500, with this long shopping list, we are looking at $5,000 and more per vehicle, great deal for a $35,000 vehicle when brand new