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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin (36409 Views)
Why Is Sex Attached To Sin By Most Religion? / Why Does God Create People When He Knows They Are Going To Hell? / Is Grace A License To Sin? - Paul Ellis (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by cloudgoddess(f): 12:03am On Apr 12, 2016 |
colp2015:I read the link and the argument put forward there is very nonsensical. Satan was too powerful, so God was unable to disclose his presence to Adam & Eve? Foolishness. How does Satan being powerful/invisible prevent God from putting a warning sign? If anything Satan's "ultra powerful-ness" and invisibility would be even MORE reason for God to DO SOMETHING to INFORM/PROTECT HIS CREATIONS rather than simply allow Satan to work is way into Adam & Eve's minds, especially when he knew they would be too mentally unfit (and lacking in knowledge) to be able to resist! And, Satan's super-powerful complexity and deceptive abilities are even more reason why it makes NO SENSE AT ALL for Yahweh to have PUNISHED Adam & Eve for blundering, especially with such severity of punishment (cursing them and every generation of human beings?). THEY WERE NO MATCH FOR SATAN THE FIRST PLACE - they did not know of his existence AND they were not suited to overcome his deceptive abilities. That is like putting a mouse and a lion in a cage for a fight, sitting back and watching the lion tear the mouse to shreds, and then punishing and damning the mouse (and every member of the mouse's familly, and all future decendents) when he inevitably loses the fight. Nonsensical, unfair, and cruel. That blog is just more mental gymnastics that answers nothing, creates even more questions, and dodges the problem at hand. A convoluted non-answer that is extremely typical of apologetic arguments. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by KingEbukasBlog(m): 6:46am On Apr 12, 2016 |
Nmeri17: How far ? |
Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by analice107: 9:09am On Apr 12, 2016 |
cloudgoddess:Thank you. |
Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by Nmeri17: 11:14am On Apr 12, 2016 |
KingEbukasBlog:nothing much jore. If you don't mind, I'm curious about your opinion concerning the OP though since you're like the most intelligible christian I've seen on here. PS: please don't disappoint ![]() |
Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by colp2015: 1:45pm On Apr 12, 2016 |
cloudgoddess:The way you are arguing against the blog post would have been the same way Adam and Eve would ask endless questions about Satan, his nature and modus operandi. It's a futile exercise to discuss about an invisible entity with Man. The problem was never with God, but the limitations of man. Man was incapable of understanding Satan and his forces. The Bible describes him as a Dragon with seven heads. The most practical way to alert Man of another entity in the Garden of Eden was to give Adam an instruction like God did. To people like you, God and Satan are nothing more than figments of man's imagination. The reason for creating man predates the drama recorded in Genesis. God actually wanted man to dominate the forces of darkness on earth. And, Satan's super-powerful complexity and deceptive abilities are even more reason why it makes NO SENSE AT ALL for Yahweh to have PUNISHED Adam & Eve for blundering, especially with such severity of punishment (cursing them and every generation of human beings?). THEY WERE NO MATCH FOR SATAN THE FIRST PLACE - they did not know of his existence AND they were not suited to overcome his deceptive abilities. That is like putting a mouse and a lion in a cage for a fight, sitting back and watching the lion tear the mouse to shreds, and then punishing and damning the mouse (and every member of the mouse's familly, and all future decendents) when he inevitably loses the fight. Nonsensical, unfair, and cruel.The argument in your post is valid to some extent, but have you ever wondered why God decided to save Man? Man was disadvantaged from the beginning, but not without an instruction that gave him an edge over Satan. In addition to the submission above, God actually wanted man to know that Satan was, and still is, in the world. Adam and Eve, though, were no match for their enemy, they were capable of obeying a simple instruction. They were given a choice to live by God's enabling power or live independent of him. They made their choice and consequently plunged their kind into a mess. That blog is just more mental gymnastics that answers nothing, creates even more questions, and dodges the problem at hand. A convoluted non-answer that is extremely typical of apologetic arguments.The question to you is: What's your take on God's salvation plan for man? You cannot straddle the fence on this matter: if you reject the creation story in the Bible, then you must be bold to say that the Christian faith is a hoax. |
Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by lookingfly: 4:54pm On Apr 12, 2016 |
analice107:I just don't believe Adam rejected God's rule because he started believing in himself. But I know Adam sinned by eating from the tree God said he shouldn't eat. What has adams sin got to do with Adam being the origin of atheism? |
Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by cloudgoddess(f): 7:17pm On Apr 12, 2016 |
colp2015: It's a futile exercise to discuss about an invisible entity with Man. It's a futile exercise to discuss things that have not been proven to exist. There are invisible things who's existence of which we have clear, objective evidence for, and can thus discuss productively. The problem was never with God, but the limitations of man. But... God created man. So God created those very limitations. In fact, the problem is precisely with God. Adam had no say in how he was made. If a sculptor makes a flawed piece, do you blame the piece for being flawed, or the sculptor for being unskilled? The fact that God can even create something imperfect clearly contradicts the idea that he is perfect. Man was incapable of understanding Satan and his forces. Again, God's fault. He could've easily given man the ability if he wanted to. God actually wanted man to dominate the forces of darkness on earth. So why couldn't we? If God is truly all-powerful then he should get exactly what he wants. Nothing is superior to Him, correct? So why should anything, or anyone be able to interfere with his plans? have you ever wondered why God decided to save Man? Save Man from what? The very problems he created by making them flawed in the first place? Adam and Eve, though, were no match for their enemy, they were capable of obeying a simple instruction. Actually, no. This statement is self-contradictory. That they were no match for the enemy means that they in fact were not capable of obeying the instruction. Them obeying the instruction was a potentiality that would only be actualized IF they indeed WERE a match for Satan & capable of discerning his trickery. if you reject the creation story in the Bible, then you must be bold to say that the Christian faith is a hoax. That is precisely my stance. Christianity is a hoax, along with the thousands of religions that came before and after it. Humans created religions and the God(s) within them to explain things they did not understand (like weather, disease, and death), to maintain control over societies, to give hope and emotional comfort, the list goes on. Before science, before medicine, before education, before space travel and exploration, before widespread availability of food and resources, humans needed some sort of guiding ideas for their societies, some semblence of protection, and some relief from the fear of dying (since death was far more frequent and common in the absense of medicine & reliable food production). So every society created their own ideas of gods, and what supposedly pleases those gods (typically aligned with whatever the society valued at that time). The religions with the most powerful supporters conquered, and the ones less popular died out. Emperor Constantine of Rome is the reason Christianity still exists today. He spread it forcefully throughout that geographical region, and history ran it's course. This proclivity of religion to to fill gaps in understanding and provide comfort in harsh societal climates is still clear today; we see that most under-developed countries who lack access to education, medicine, science and resources, also have the highest degree of religious belief. And the countries that are thriving, making steady scientific progress, living long and living peacefully, have very low rates of religiosity. Because they no longer need those comforting imaginative ideas. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by colp2015: 8:47pm On Apr 12, 2016 |
cloudgoddess:As stated earlier, the problem with you was the same problem with Adam. With all the seeming intelligence you demonstrate on this thread, you still fail to see all the evidences of EVIL, nay the presence of Satan, in the world. Your very essence is flawed just like Adam was a flawed creation. The problem was never with God, but the limitations of man.Adam had no say in his make-up, but he understood that when man is hungry, s/he eats food, not poison, to quench the hunger. Adam and Eve were intelligent enough to understand what it means to 'be wise like God;' thus their desire to be like God. If a sculptor makes a flawed piece, do you blame the piece for being flawed, or the sculptor for being unskilled? The fact that God can even create something imperfect clearly contradicts the idea that he is perfect.Adam was a sentient being - a being capable of independent action. He was not an inanimate object devoid of intellect, emotion and volition. In fact, Adam was endowed with sufficient wisdom, hence he put the blame of his disobedience on Eve. Man was incapable of understanding Satan and his forces.The ability to decipher and checkmate the forces of darkness was contained in the fruit of life. Adam and Eve were not barred from the tree of life until they disobeyed God. God actually wanted man to dominate the forces of darkness on earth.Actually there are people on earth dreaded by Satan. They are folks who maintain holiness and righteousness through Christ Jesus. God is powerful and He's getting His desires through believers in Christ Jesus. have you ever wondered why God decided to save Man?...to save man from eternal perdition, separation of man from God. ''God is in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their sins unto them...'' 2 Cor 5:19. Adam and Eve, though, were no match for their enemy, they were capable of obeying a simple instruction.No! It's not contradictory! You simply refuse to engage your faculties! God did not discuss with Adam and Eve about Satan - just as Christians are instructed not to expend their energy and time on the devil, but to abide in Christ - God simply gave Adam and Eve a simple instruction to guide them from becoming captives in the devil's net. That they were no match for the enemy means that they in fact were not capable of obeying the instruction. Them obeying the instruction was a potentiality that would only be actualized IF they indeed WERE a match for Satan & capable of discerning his trickery.The statement above is a mockery of your intellect. Adam and Eve wanted to be like God, hence their disobedience. Don't suspend your faculties, lady! if you reject the creation story in the Bible, then you must be bold to say that the Christian faith is a hoax.I knew you would say that! I was on board the same boat with you until God rescued me. You will soon see the light, because people like you (as was I) will never leave the Christian faith and its adherents alone. Why do you bother to read the Bible since you believe it is a compendium of fairy tales put together to control the minds of the 'gullible'? I leave you with this: https://answersingenesis.org/world-religions/atheism/why-do-atheists-care/ |
Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by Princewell2012(m): 9:03pm On Apr 12, 2016 |
gossipatrol: |
Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by Princewell2012(m): 9:21pm On Apr 12, 2016 |
gossipatrol: Mmmmm, let me reserve my comment. |
Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by Princewell2012(m): 9:31pm On Apr 12, 2016 |
Tjayjosh: Mmmmm, is it not better they were remained robot, than they been given a choice and ended up in everlasting fire ![]() 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by sandygechy(f): 9:57pm On Apr 12, 2016 |
U obviously don't know the meaning of truth! Abeg,park well!!! cloudgoddess: |
Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by Nobody: 12:08am On Apr 13, 2016 |
cloudgoddess: If you are truly a girl,well am impressed,you are way too intelligent to your opponents,you strucked the nails at the right places,I however do not agree that God is a haox,but yes religions are a very big hoax,just a means to govern the people of their time,just as we have political systems,democracy etc. E.g in the past what we call crime today,would've been called sin in those days,so a criminal today,would've been known as a sinner in those days. It's just the change of the time. But,here let everyone keep doing that which that work for them. Shalom. |
Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by Nobody: 1:54am On Apr 13, 2016 |
booqee: You are not alone. Some have wondered the same thing esp when they learn of the belief in predestination and hell fire, they view God as unloving. How can He predestine humans to eat the fruit and then prepare a hell fire to burn them eternally? But this can make God seem unlovable only if we really understand what the bible really teaches. We are not ruled by fate. God never predestined they would eat the fruit. they did it of their own volition. Why place the tree there? That tree stands for God's right to set moral laws, to determine what should be considered Right and Wrong. In other words, the tree stand for God's Sovereignty. He didnt place any poison in it. If God has just dos dos without don'ts, there is no way to show if they loved Him and want to live under His directions. There was no poison in it, but when someone presumptuously eats of that tree, what God, as a universal Ruler, had marked as wrong, the penalty is death because He has challenged God's exclusive right to set moral laws. It is like saying that God's right is wrong and His wrong right. A perfect person is not prone to fall like we do today. He does not have that inner motivation to sin. So he cursed man because he sinned deliberately. He didnt predestine that action they took. 1 Like |
Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by analice107: 11:42am On Apr 13, 2016 |
lookingfly:Because atheism is the worship of self. Satan worships himself instead of his creator. Satan made man to also worship himself. Adam fell into the trap. The trap Satan set for Jesus when he tempted him, but Jesus bounced. Can u now see? |
Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by Tjayjosh(m): 2:45pm On Apr 13, 2016 |
Sacluxpaint:Was Pharaoh an innocent or godly man who did not oppose/harden his heart, and spoke against God's command? |
Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by cloudgoddess(f): 4:05pm On Apr 13, 2016 |
colp2015:More assumptions with no evidence, and you're going off topic. There is no proof for the existence of Gods or Satan. There is no proof of the existence of "evil" as some standalone supernatural entity; there is no reason to believe that this force you call "evil" is anything other than the inevitable result of the selfish tendencies, psychological maladies, overblown egos, & conflicting motives of human beings. Before you can dare to tell me I'm in the wrong, you must provide evidence for all of these fantastic supernatural claims. Because I can just as easily, as you're doing now, say "There are aliens controling everyone in the world through telekenesis, and we just don't know it because we are blinded by our own egos. If you doubt me you are a fool." See? Anyone can make baseless claims and insult others for not accepting them. That doesn't make those claims true or valid. Also, how can a perfect being create something flawed? How can the pinnacle of perfection and the unlimited potential to make anything possible, "mess up"? Adam had no say in his make-up, but he understood that when man is hungry, s/he eats food, not poison, to quench the hunger. Adam and Eve were intelligent enough to understand what it means to 'be wise like God;' thus their desire to be like God.Another big contradictory jumble of words. 1. If Adam had no say in his make-up, that means he is NOT RESPONSIBLE for his flaws, because his flaws were not chosen by him, but selected precisely by whoever/whatever created him. When a sculptor makes a flawed vase, do you now blame the vase for being flawed? Or do you say the sculptor should've did something different? Inanimate or animate, any thing that was indeed created can ONLY have properties bestowed upon it by said creator. If the created thing is flawed in some way, then the flaws are the responsibility OF THE CREATOR. 2. Why should Adam & Eve have to desire to be like God in the first place?? Why couldn't God just make them like him from the beginning, what was stopping him from simply doing that? Adam was a sentient being - a being capable of independent action. He was not an inanimate object devoid of intellect, emotion and volition. In fact, Adam was endowed with sufficient wisdom, hence he put the blame of his disobedience on Eve. He blamed Eve after he had already eaten the fruit and gained knowledge of good and evil. Prior to that he did not even know the meaning of evil, and was unable to even comprehend that disobeying commands was "evil". And he clearly did not have sufficient wisdom because if he did, he would not have succumbed to Satan's tricks. He would've seen right through them. But his brain and all the processes within it, which were both created by God, did not allow him that advantage. Actually there are people on earth dreaded by Satan. They are folks who maintain holiness and righteousness through Christ Jesus. God is powerful and He's getting His desires through believers in Christ Jesus.Biblical claims without evidence. You can't prove something by referring to another unproven thing. The bible being the true & infallible word of an all-powerful entity, rather than the writings of imaginative Hebrew men, has not been proven by any external, objective, reliable measure. No! It's not contradictory! You simply refuse to engage your faculties! God did not discuss with Adam and Eve about Satan - just as Christians are instructed not to expend their energy and time on the devil, but to abide in Christ - God simply gave Adam and Eve a simple instruction to guide them from becoming captives in the Devil's net.Yes, it was contradictory. If they were not responsible for how they were created, then they were not responsible for their flaws. Whatever blunder in decision-making they made was a direct result of their flawed brains, the creation of which they had no control over. Again, why did Adam & Eve have to "want to be like god", when God had the full power to make them like him from the beginning? At the very least, why couldn't they simply have been created with knowledge of how to discern trickery? You still have not shown why God was unable to give them that simple ability, or even a simple forwarning about Satan. God created them ill-equipt for the situation at hand, and then punished them... for being the way he made them; for acting precisely how God KNEW they would act given the way He created them. I knew you would say that! I was on board the same boat with you until God rescued me. You will soon see the light, because people like you (as was I) will never leave the Christian faith and its adherents alone. Why do you bother to read the Bible since you believe it is a compendium of fairy tales put together to control the minds of the 'gullible'?Anyone who uses their brains for anything other than apologetic mental-gymnastics will quickly see through the idiocy of religion. A few things: I was a Christian for most of my life. Then I did research and actually learned about things other than a 2,000 year old Hebrew storybook passed down to my people by WHITE COLONISTS who wiped out the religions of my forefathers to dominate them. Knowledge is the enemy of religion, once you understand how the world actually works, how history ACTUALLY played out, it becomes strikingly clear that the whole thing (Christianity, & other religions) is a fabrication of the human mind and a plague onto societal progress. I am not the first ex-Christian and I certainly won't be the last. People all over the developed world are leaving religion behind by the droves and their societies are clearly benefiting from it. Imagine if all the money spent on tithes to greedy pastors, building mega-churches, and funding idiotic anti-science Creationism programs, was put into research for HIV and Cancer? Or eradicating world hunger and spreading education to underdeveloped ocuntries? Or within Nigeria alone, rebuilding our government infrastructure and upgrading our schools. Pursuits that have TANGIBLE, REAL LIFE benefits, and do not depend on suppositions of an afterlife that haven't even the tiniest shred of proof? Our country and the world would be infinitely better off. Religion feeds ignorance and halts societal progress, history shows us this clearly. Why WOULDN'T someone who understands this, do whatever is in their power to OPEN PEOPLES EYES? 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by lookingfly: 8:21pm On Apr 13, 2016 |
analice107:so atheism is now the worship of self (pls which dictionary gave that defination). The fact that someone says he/she doesn't believe in God, doesn't mean that person worship him/her self. Satan only wanted to be worshipped just like God, but he really acknowledged the presence of God. So how is that atheism...... Pls check your dictionary for the meaning of atheism. Ok 1 Like |
Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by analice107: 8:42pm On Apr 13, 2016 |
lookingfly:Am, this guy. You are deceived into believing atheism is just an unbelief in God. Everybody worships something dear. Everyone. You are an Atheist and you don't know this? O boy. Atheism is the worship of self. Anyways. Any enough said about this matter. |
Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by lookingfly: 11:17pm On Apr 13, 2016 |
[quote author=analice107 post=44676210] Am, this guy. You are deceived into believing atheism is just an unbelief in God. Everybody worships something dear. Everyone. You are an Atheist and you don't know this? O boy. Atheism is the worship of self. Anyways. Any enough said about this matter./quote]OK |
Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by Nobody: 11:21pm On Apr 13, 2016 |
Tjayjosh: Not that I am questioning what God did, but wasn't freewill meant to be allowed at that moment instead of being controlled to be hardened? |
Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by cloudgoddess(f): 11:46pm On Apr 13, 2016 |
analice107:Actually, NO. YOU worship something, and because you and the likes of you are so brainwashed beyond any concievable measure, you can not fathom that other humans exist who do NOT need to "worship" things, people, or objects, to carry on their lives peacefully. Your assertions are unfounded, incredibly bigoted, and annoying to read. Just saying things over and over will never make them true. Bring your evidence for these outrageous claims and maybe people will take you seriously. But of course, you have no evidence, because your ideas are borne solely out of the programmed need to defend your religious beliefs at all costs, despite how ridiculous you have to make yourself look, and how much you have to degrade humanity in order to do so. The expected fruits of an indoctrinated mind. And you wonder why the nonreligious are so sickened by all of this. 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by DrLazDevitan: 7:58am On Apr 14, 2016 |
gossipatrol: Freewill or freechoice is inherent,transhistoric and universal attribute of humanity.No one was given for free,not even a god can do that... |
Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by lookingfly: 8:07am On Apr 14, 2016 |
cloudgoddess:help me tell her that someone being an atheist doesn't mean the person worship self. #proud believer in God |
Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by DrLazDevitan: 8:08am On Apr 14, 2016 |
Larryfly: Then your god is as zombie as our president... 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by gossipatrol(f): 8:43am On Apr 14, 2016 |
DrLazDevitan: We are talking about the creation of humanity! I don't even know why am dignifying you with a response, I know your type, pls run along and don't quote me again |
Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by analice107: 11:09am On Apr 14, 2016 |
cloudgoddess:It sounds ridiculous to you because your mind is blinded. But that's okay. The day you will receive the gift of the Spirit you'll understand and these things will cease sounding ridiculous to you 1 Corinthians 2:14 says; But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated. See why I don't hold anything against you? But there's time for everything and season. Now is when we are here sounding as ridiculous as we can, but nevertheless presenting this gospel to you. A time will come you'll wish you listened. May the Lord help you. |
Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by Tjayjosh(m): 11:53am On Apr 14, 2016 |
analice107:For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God (1 Corinthians 1:18). |
Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by analice107: 11:56am On Apr 14, 2016 |
Tjayjosh:On point dear. These things are indeed foolishness to them, but may God save them. 1 Like |
Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by analice107: 12:15pm On Apr 14, 2016 |
cloudgoddess:See how good you are as the Devil's advocate, meanwhile you don't believe the devil exists. When I say it over and over that atheists are Satanists, those who don't understand disbelieve. Stand firm darling, defend Satan, when you stand before the Judgement seat, Satan will be your advocate. Hahahahaha. |
Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by analice107: 12:22pm On Apr 14, 2016 |
Princewell2012:When did you join them? |
Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by johnydon22(m): 12:35pm On Apr 14, 2016 |
analice107: Honestly this is so petty for a defence, more like pleading!!! |
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