Joagbaje:


We should be concerned about what. Christ instructed

What did he command?
Mattew: 24:14. Mattew 28:19,20.
He instructed his followers to preach the good news about the kingdom, to teach people all that he has commanded and baptize them.
Above all when Christ walked the earth the theme of his message was THE KINGDOM OF GOD!

goodnews201668:


So that's strange to you?
Or they didn't show you were it is in the Bible?
Or because your doesn't teach that make JWs not to be Christians?
You ask them to show you where it is in the Bible not to come here to condemn them.

my brother, i know it's in the bible, but using it as yardstick is where my pros with them is, that phrase, "the meek shall inherit the earth does not just means that christians will occupy everywhere on earth as they make it seem...this is why they said that there's nothing like heaven or hell cos of that singular scripture...the meek shall inherit the earth also means that, the christians shall dominate the earth with the power of God and do exploits with signs and wonders, performing miracles, taking territories for God just like caleb and joshua...and etc...another problem i have with you guys is, you dnt believe in the holy spirit nd speaking in tonques...mehnn, una get looooooong way to go.

firstking01:
my brother, i know it's in the bible, but using it as yardstick is where my pros with them is, that phrase, "the meek shall inherit the earth does not just means that christians will occupy everywhere on earth as they make it seem...this is why they said that there's nothing like heaven or hell cos of that singular scripture...the meek shall inherit the earth also means that, the christians shall dominate the earth with the power of God and do exploits with signs and wonders, performing miracles, taking territories for God just like caleb and joshua...and etc...another problem i have with you guys is, you dnt believe in the holy spirit nd speaking in tonques...mehnn, una get looooooong way to go.

Well it might also interest you to know that God has a purpose in creating the earth and that purpose will surely be accomplished.
Read psalm 115:16 and see what the Bible said concerning the heavens and the earth.
Read Mattew 5:5 as well and see what Jesus said there concerning good people and the earth.

goodnews201668:


1....Not true, it's only jehovah that has the title almighty God.
2....The Bible acknowledges the fact that jesus is a powerful God too, apart from almighty God himself no other person is bigger than Jesus.
Now listen to that bible portion thats John 1:1 it says in the beginning the word was with God.
3.... Think about this , what beginning is the bible talking about here?
4.... Almighty God doesn't have a beginning but the bible clearly tells us that Jesus has a beginning and was created by Jehovah himself.
Then again think about this the said he was with God, 5....now how can one be with another person and at the same time be that same person?
6.... It may interest you to know that Jesus christ never at a any point claim to be the same person as his father. No eye can see Jehovah but eyes saw Jesus christ. 7....There are many reasons why christ and his father Jehovah are different personalities.

1....False, and I already know that supposed jw's don't believe Bible verses that don't agree with their false doctrines

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Jesus said He is the Alpha and the Omega, John said He is the Almighty,
but supposed jw's would change that to say something else.



2....That's false, no part of the Bible acknowledges that Jesus is "a god"




3....That doesn't take much thinking, do you think you are a bible teacher? you are not, certinally not mine
It's talking about the beginning of Creation, there is no beginning before creation,
and creation probably began with the Creation of the Angels by the Word-Jesus Christ.



4....False, the person of Wisdom-the Word-Jesus Christ had no beginning, God's Spirit has no beginning,
Wisdom-the Word-Jesus Christ
but being God's spirit He is Eternal and God, before being bought forth as another person with God, He was in the bosom of God



5....You are confused, eg, the Word cannot be the Father, but He can be and is God,
It's impossible for you, not having the Holy Spirit, to understand
but you should just believe the verses anyway instead of believing your orgs. changed verses (satanic verses)


6....Of course not, they are not the same person, one is the Father the other is the Son.


7....False, That's nonsense, Jesus is the express image of His Father, they are diffrent persons not diffrent personalities.



Read from this site and see that you belong to an anti christ orginisation:
www.jwfacts.com/

And read from this site and learn about the Lord:
https://carm.org/




anti christ jw's reject God's scriptures:

johnw74:


There is only one God and he is called mighty, and He is called almighty

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

God is Almighty God
the Word is Almighty God

There is not a Almighty God and a mighty God, only a sect would teach and believe that.

He is mighty and He is almighty.

almighty and mighty are words used in the Bible for referring to God in some instances, and are not referring to God, and "a god".



I have seen many times where supposed jw's say that Almighty God refers to Jehovah and mighty god refers to
the Word Jesus Christ "a god".

The below verses all refer to Jehovah:

Deu_7:21 Thou shalt not be affrighted at them: for the LORD thy God is among you, a mighty God and terrible.

Psa_50:1 A Psalm of Asaph. The mighty God, even the LORD, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof.

Psa_132:2 How he sware unto the LORD, and vowed unto the mighty God of Jacob;

Psa_132:5 Until I find out a place for the LORD, an habitation for the mighty God of Jacob.

Jer_32:18 Thou shewest lovingkindness unto thousands, and recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them: the Great, the Mighty God, the LORD of hosts, is his name,

Hab_1:12 Art thou not from everlasting, O LORD my God, mine Holy One? we shall not die. O LORD, thou hast ordained them for judgment; and, O mighty God, thou hast established them for correction.


Jesus called mighty God:

Isa_9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Both Jesus and Jehovah are called mighty God.


John calls Jesus the almighty:

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

God and the Word are called mighty and are called almighty, because that's what God is.
I like to call Him "awesome", His that to.

paulGrundy:


Assuming I pretend to agree with you, then why is the preaching of Jesus left out by JW's?

was never out. jw preach about God kingdom and Jesus is the king. you cannot separate Jesus from god kingdom. the title of last year convention of jw is "imitate Jesus'.

firstking01:
my brother, i know it's in the bible, but using it as yardstick is where my pros with them is, that phrase, "the meek shall inherit the earth does not just means that christians will occupy everywhere on earth as they make it seem...this is why they said that there's nothing like heaven or hell cos of that singular scripture...the meek shall inherit the earth also means that, the christians shall dominate the earth with the power of God and do exploits with signs and wonders, performing miracles, taking territories for God just like caleb and joshua...and etc...another problem i have with you guys is, you dnt believe in the holy spirit nd speaking in tonques...mehnn, una get looooooong way to go.

jw believe in holy spirit and speaking in tongue. try to understand what jw believe about these.

joyandfaith:


jw believe in holy spirit and speaking in tongue. try to understand what jw believe about these.

they dnt, i ve worshipped with them before in the kingdom hall...if they dnt believe in God the father, God the son and God the holy ghost, how would they now believe in speaking in tonques cos it's the work of the holy ghost accordint to acts chapt 1 vs 8 and acts chapt 2 vs 1??

johnw74:




1....False, and I already know that supposed jw's don't believe Bible verses that don't agree with their false doctrines

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Jesus said He is the Alpha and the Omega, John said He is the Almighty,
but supposed jw's would change that to say something else.



2....That's false, no part of the Bible acknowledges that Jesus is "a god"




3....That doesn't take much thinking, do you think you are a bible teacher? you are not, certinally not mine
It's talking about the beginning of Creation, there is no beginning before creation,
and creation probably began with the Creation of the Angels by the Word-Jesus Christ.



4....False, the person of Wisdom-the Word-Jesus Christ had no beginning, God's Spirit has no beginning,
Wisdom-the Word-Jesus Christ
but being God's spirit He is Eternal and God, before being bought forth as another person with God, He was in the bosom of God



5....You are confused, eg, the Word cannot be the Father, but He can be and is God,
It's impossible for you, not having the Holy Spirit, to understand
but you should just believe the verses anyway instead of believing your orgs. changed verses (satanic verses)


6....Of course not, they are not the same person, one is the Father the other is the Son.


7....False, That's nonsense, Jesus is the express image of His Father, they are diffrent persons not diffrent personalities.



Read from this site and see that you belong to an anti christ orginisation:
www.jwfacts.com/

And read from this site and learn about the Lord:
https://carm.org/




anti christ jw's reject God's scriptures:

Stop mixing things up, this is not Scrabble.
No just show me one scripture were Jesus is being address as Almighty "God"

goodnews201668:

1....Stop mixing things up, this is not Scrabble.
2....No just show me one scripture were Jesus is being address as Almighty "God"

1....Only things mixed up are in your head.

2....I have showed you rev 1:8 where John refers to Jesus
as the Almighty.
Of course I know that supposed jw's don't believe parts of the Bible that go against their false doctrines,
so you would twist it to say something different.
I showed you many verses of Jesus and Jahovah being called mighty God,
it doesn't matter to me that Jesus is not often called Almighty God, but you worry on it.

johnw74:



1....Only things mixed up are in your head.

2....I have showed you rev 1:8 where John refers to Jesus
as the Almighty.
Of course I know that supposed jw's don't believe parts of the Bible that go against their false doctrines,
so you would twist it to say something different.
I showed you many verses of Jesus and Jahovah being called mighty God,
it doesn't matter to me that Jesus is not often called Almighty God, but you worry on it.

I am glad you are quoting Bible now not from links created by disgruntled people.

Now look at this, it's not from our source. It's for you to know others also know the truth about this issue.
Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must shortly take place; and He sent and communicated {it} by His angel to His bond-servant John. (NAS)

GOD gave the revelation TO Jesus Christ; if Jesus was truly “God” why does he need another “God” to give him the revelation? This fact alone proves Jesus Christ is lesser in knowledge than God. The Trinitarian camp and the Jesus is God camp simply cannot explain Revelation 1:1.
Revelation 1:4-6 John TO the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him (God the Father) who is and who was and who is to come; AND from the seven Spirits who are before His throne; AND from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the first-born of the dead, AND the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him (Jesus) who loves us, and released us from our sins by his blood, AND he (Jesus) has made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father; to him (God the Father) be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen. (NAS)

John writes his apocalypse in very clear terms; he addresses the “seven churches” in Asia, and then qualifies exactly to whom and from WHOM each message was given. First he gives supreme recognition to God the Father by addressing Him as, “Him who is and who was and who is to come.” Many Christians mistake this phrase as referring to Jesus without carefully reading the grammatical structure of the paragraph. The paragraph reads, “…Him who is and who was and who is to come AND FROM Jesus Christ.” In Revelation 1:5 Jesus is not God BECAUSE he made a kingdom of priests to, “his God.” Jesus has made his church to be a kingdom, priests, “to his God and Father.” How could Jesus be “God” in heaven if his kingdom belongs to, “his God and Father?”

The answer is that Revelation 1:8 is NOT Jesus speaking; it is the Father God speaking, as I will prove from the text internal evidence:

Revelation 1:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” (NAS)

The MAIN reason this verse is God speaking and not Jesus is the phrase, “the Lord God…the Almighty.” Jesus Christ is NEVER referred to as the “Almighty.” Not one single place in the entire New Testament can you find Jesus described as the “Almighty” One; the Greek word for Almighty is “Pantokrator,” and means, “All ruling one.”

Furthermore Revelation 1:8 is a reference to God the Father (aka in the OT as Yahweh, Elohim, El, Eloah, etc) as the Creator, who is He that was in the beginning (alpha) and end of everything (omega) which has been created, including the creation of His son Jesus (read Genesis. 1:1).

I don’t know where Christians get it in the head that alpha and omega have anything to do with deity. It may stem from using only the King James Version, a Bible that has so many flaws in its Greek translation it should never be held as credible for the serious student of scripture. Below is the KJV rendering of Revelation 1:8 and I have highlighted in red the words erroneously added by the KJV translators:

Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending,” saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. KJV

Anyone that apppreciates the truth will identify!

firstking01:
they dnt, i ve worshipped with them before in the kingdom hall...if they dnt believe in God the father, God the son and God the holy ghost, how would they now believe in speaking in tonques cos it's the work of the holy ghost accordint to acts chapt 1 vs 8 and acts chapt 2 vs 1??

speaking in tongue is a Gift from God. if you have the gift, fine.

what is holy spirit?
The Bible’s answer
The holy spirit is God’s power in action, his active force. ( Micah 3:8; Luke 1:35 ) God sends out his spirit by projecting his energy to any place to accomplish his will.— Psalm 104:30; 139:7 .
In the Bible, the word “spirit” is translated from the Hebrew word ru′ach and the Greek word
pneu′ma. Most often, those words refer to God’s active force, or holy spirit. ( Genesis 1:2 ) However, the Bible also uses those words in other senses:
Breath.— Habakkuk 2:19; Revelation 13:15 .
Wind.— Genesis 8:1; John 3:8 .
The vital, or animating, force in living creatures.— Job 34:14, 15 .
A person’s disposition or attitude.— Numbers 14:24 .
Spirit persons, including God and the angels.— 1 Kings 22:21; John 4:24 .
These meanings all share the sense of something invisible to humans that produces visible effects. Similarly, the spirit of God, “like the wind, is invisible, immaterial and powerful.”— An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, by W. E. Vine.
The Bible also refers to God’s holy spirit as his “hands” or “fingers.” ( Psalm 8:3; 19:1; Luke 11:20 ; compare Matthew 12:28 .) Just as a craftsman uses his hands and fingers to do his work, God has used his spirit to produce such results as the following:
The universe.— Psalm 33:6; Isaiah 66:1, 2 .
The Bible.— 2 Peter 1:20, 21.
The miracles performed by his ancient servants and their zealous preaching.— Luke 4:18; Acts 1:8; 1 Corinthians 12:4-11 .
The fine qualities displayed by people who obey him.— Galatians 5:22, 23 .
The holy spirit is not a person
By referring to God’s spirit as his “hands,” “fingers,” or “breath,” the Bible shows that the holy spirit is not a person. ( Exodus 15:8, 10) A craftsman’s hands cannot function independent of his mind and body; likewise, God’s holy spirit operates only as he directs it. ( Luke 11:13 ) The Bible also compares God’s spirit to water and associates it with such things as faith and knowledge. These comparisons all point to the impersonal nature of the holy spirit.— Isaiah 44:3; Acts 6:5; 2 Corinthians 6:6 .
The Bible gives the names of Jehovah God and of his Son, Jesus Christ; yet, nowhere does it name the holy spirit. ( Isaiah 42:8; Luke 1:31 ) When the Christian martyr Stephen was given a miraculous heavenly vision, he saw only two persons, not three. The Bible says: “He, being full of holy spirit, gazed into heaven and caught sight of God’s glory and of Jesus standing at God’s right hand.” ( Acts 7:55 ) The holy spirit was God’s power in action, enabling Stephen to see the vision.
Misconceptions about the holy spirit
Misconception: The “Holy Ghost,” or holy spirit, is a person and is part of the Trinity, as stated at 1 John 5:7, 8 in the King James version of the Bible.
Fact: The King James version of the Bible includes at 1 John 5:7, 8 the words “in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth.” However, researchers have found that those words were not written by the apostle John and so do not belong in the Bible. Professor Bruce M. Metzger wrote: “That these words are spurious and have no right to stand in the New Testament is certain.”— A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament.
Misconception: The Bible personifies the holy spirit, and this proves that it is a person.
Fact: The Scriptures do at times personify the holy spirit, but this does not prove that the holy spirit is a person. The Bible also personifies wisdom, death, and sin. ( Proverbs 1:20; Romans 5:17, 21 ) For example, wisdom is said to have “works” and “children,” and sin is depicted as seducing, killing, and working out covetousness.— Matthew 11:19; Luke 7:35; Romans 7:8, 11 .
Similarly, when the apostle John quoted Jesus, he personified the holy spirit as a “helper” (paraclete) that would give evidence, guide, speak, hear, declare, glorify, and receive. He used masculine personal pronouns such as “he” or “him” when referring to that “helper.” ( John 16:7-15 ) However, he did so because the Greek word for “helper” ( pa·ra′kle·tos ) is a masculine noun and requires a masculine pronoun according to the rules of Greek grammar. When John referred to the holy spirit using the neuter noun pneu′ma, he used the genderless pronoun “it.”— John 14:16, 17.
Misconception: Baptism in the name of the holy spirit proves that it is a person.
Fact: The Bible sometimes uses “name” to stand for power or authority. ( Deuteronomy 18:5, 19-22; Esther 8:10 ) This is similar to its use in the English expression “in the name of the law,” which does not mean that the law is a person. A person who is baptized “in the name of ” the holy spirit recognizes the power and role of the holy spirit in accomplishing God’s will.—
Matthew 28:19 .
Misconception: Jesus’ apostles and other early disciples believed that the holy spirit was a person.
Fact: The Bible does not say that, nor does history. The Encyclopædia Britannica states: “The definition that the Holy Spirit was a distinct divine Person . . . came at the Council of Constantinople in ad 381.” This was over 250 years after the last of the apostles had died.

joyandfaith:


speaking in tongue is a Gift from God. if you have the gift, fine.

what is holy spirit?
The Bible’s answer
The holy spirit is God’s power in action, his active force. ( Micah 3:8; Luke 1:35 ) God sends out his spirit by projecting his energy to any place to accomplish his will.— Psalm 104:30; 139:7 .
In the Bible, the word “spirit” is translated from the Hebrew word ru′ach and the Greek word
pneu′ma. Most often, those words refer to God’s active force, or holy spirit. ( Genesis 1:2 ) However, the Bible also uses those words in other senses:
Breath.— Habakkuk 2:19; Revelation 13:15 .
Wind.— Genesis 8:1; John 3:8 .
The vital, or animating, force in living creatures.— Job 34:14, 15 .
A person’s disposition or attitude.— Numbers 14:24 .
Spirit persons, including God and the angels.— 1 Kings 22:21; John 4:24 .
These meanings all share the sense of something invisible to humans that produces visible effects. Similarly, the spirit of God, “like the wind, is invisible, immaterial and powerful.”— An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, by W. E. Vine.
The Bible also refers to God’s holy spirit as his “hands” or “fingers.” ( Psalm 8:3; 19:1; Luke 11:20 ; compare Matthew 12:28 .) Just as a craftsman uses his hands and fingers to do his work, God has used his spirit to produce such results as the following:
The universe.— Psalm 33:6; Isaiah 66:1, 2 .
The Bible.— 2 Peter 1:20, 21.
The miracles performed by his ancient servants and their zealous preaching.— Luke 4:18; Acts 1:8; 1 Corinthians 12:4-11 .
The fine qualities displayed by people who obey him.— Galatians 5:22, 23 .
The holy spirit is not a person
By referring to God’s spirit as his “hands,” “fingers,” or “breath,” the Bible shows that the holy spirit is not a person. ( Exodus 15:8, 10) A craftsman’s hands cannot function independent of his mind and body; likewise, God’s holy spirit operates only as he directs it. ( Luke 11:13 ) The Bible also compares God’s spirit to water and associates it with such things as faith and knowledge. These comparisons all point to the impersonal nature of the holy spirit.— Isaiah 44:3; Acts 6:5; 2 Corinthians 6:6 .
The Bible gives the names of Jehovah God and of his Son, Jesus Christ; yet, nowhere does it name the holy spirit. ( Isaiah 42:8; Luke 1:31 ) When the Christian martyr Stephen was given a miraculous heavenly vision, he saw only two persons, not three. The Bible says: “He, being full of holy spirit, gazed into heaven and caught sight of God’s glory and of Jesus standing at God’s right hand.” ( Acts 7:55 ) The holy spirit was God’s power in action, enabling Stephen to see the vision.
Misconceptions about the holy spirit
Misconception: The “Holy Ghost,” or holy spirit, is a person and is part of the Trinity, as stated at 1 John 5:7, 8 in the King James version of the Bible.
Fact: The King James version of the Bible includes at 1 John 5:7, 8 the words “in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth.” However, researchers have found that those words were not written by the apostle John and so do not belong in the Bible. Professor Bruce M. Metzger wrote: “That these words are spurious and have no right to stand in the New Testament is certain.”— A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament.
Misconception: The Bible personifies the holy spirit, and this proves that it is a person.
Fact: The Scriptures do at times personify the holy spirit, but this does not prove that the holy spirit is a person. The Bible also personifies wisdom, death, and sin. ( Proverbs 1:20; Romans 5:17, 21 ) For example, wisdom is said to have “works” and “children,” and sin is depicted as seducing, killing, and working out covetousness.— Matthew 11:19; Luke 7:35; Romans 7:8, 11 .
Similarly, when the apostle John quoted Jesus, he personified the holy spirit as a “helper” (paraclete) that would give evidence, guide, speak, hear, declare, glorify, and receive. He used masculine personal pronouns such as “he” or “him” when referring to that “helper.” ( John 16:7-15 ) However, he did so because the Greek word for “helper” ( pa·ra′kle·tos ) is a masculine noun and requires a masculine pronoun according to the rules of Greek grammar. When John referred to the holy spirit using the neuter noun pneu′ma, he used the genderless pronoun “it.”— John 14:16, 17.
Misconception: Baptism in the name of the holy spirit proves that it is a person.
Fact: The Bible sometimes uses “name” to stand for power or authority. ( Deuteronomy 18:5, 19-22; Esther 8:10 ) This is similar to its use in the English expression “in the name of the law,” which does not mean that the law is a person. A person who is baptized “in the name of ” the holy spirit recognizes the power and role of the holy spirit in accomplishing God’s will.—
Matthew 28:19 .
Misconception: Jesus’ apostles and other early disciples believed that the holy spirit was a person.
Fact: The Bible does not say that, nor does history. The Encyclopædia Britannica states: “The definition that the Holy Spirit was a distinct divine Person . . . came at the Council of Constantinople in ad 381.” This was over 250 years after the last of the apostles had died.

Just watch Paul Grundy impostor and his team will come and twist the truth!

goodnews201668:


Just watch Paul Grundy impostor and his team will come and twist the truth!

Yet with all the 'truth' of the holy spirit that your society knows, she is still confused. No gifts of the spirit, no miracles, No special experience to prove that Jehovah backs your organization. Just bedroom talk about how an imaginary and invisible Jesus visited the earth and choose the watchtower as his mouth-piece.

Its so easy to decieve people in the name of religion

That mean someone suffering from malaria can claim to see Jesus, and then create one funny organization claiming absolute Truth.

Truth be told, the watchtower does not have the holyspirit. The holy spirit is the spirit of Truth. John 16:13. As long as a lie or "apostasy" as you guys call it, is found in doctrine, its proof that you don't have the holy-spirit, no matter how you try to rationalize it away.

Its dangerous to give your absolute loyalty, to a human directed organization.

paulGrundy:


Yet with all the 'truth' of the holy spirit that your society knows, she is still confused. No gifts of the spirit, no miracles, No special experience to prove that Jehovah backs your organization. Just bedroom talk about how an imaginary and invisible Jesus visited the earth and choose the watchtower as his mouth-piece.

Its so easy to decieve people in the name of religion

That mean someone suffering from malaria can claim to see Jesus, and then create one funny organization claiming absolute Truth.

Truth be told, the watchtower does not have the holyspirit. The holy spirit is the spirit of Truth. John 16:13. As long as a lie or "apostasy" as you guys call it, is found in doctrine, its proof that you don't have the holy-spirit, no matter how you try to rationalize it away.

Its dangerous to give your absolute loyalty, to a human directed organization.

Question for you: What are the fruitages of the holy spirit?
Tell me what the result of your research is and I'll tell you JWs have the holy spirit more than you think you know.

goodnews201668:


I am glad you are quoting Bible now not from links created by disgruntled people.

Now look at this, it's not from our source. It's for you to know others also know the truth about this issue.
Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must shortly take place; and He sent and communicated {it} by His angel to His bond-servant John. (NAS)

GOD gave the revelation TO Jesus Christ; if Jesus was truly “God” why does he need another “God” to give him the revelation? This fact alone proves Jesus Christ is lesser in knowledge than God. The Trinitarian camp and the Jesus is God camp simply cannot explain Revelation 1:1.
Revelation 1:4-6 John TO the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him (God the Father) who is and who was and who is to come; AND from the seven Spirits who are before His throne; AND from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the first-born of the dead, AND the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him (Jesus) who loves us, and released us from our sins by his blood, AND he (Jesus) has made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father; to him (God the Father) be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen. (NAS)

John writes his apocalypse in very clear terms; he addresses the “seven churches” in Asia, and then qualifies exactly to whom and from WHOM each message was given. First he gives supreme recognition to God the Father by addressing Him as, “Him who is and who was and who is to come.” Many Christians mistake this phrase as referring to Jesus without carefully reading the grammatical structure of the paragraph. The paragraph reads, “…Him who is and who was and who is to come AND FROM Jesus Christ.” In Revelation 1:5 Jesus is not God BECAUSE he made a kingdom of priests to, “his God.” Jesus has made his church to be a kingdom, priests, “to his God and Father.” How could Jesus be “God” in heaven if his kingdom belongs to, “his God and Father?”

The answer is that Revelation 1:8 is NOT Jesus speaking; it is the Father God speaking, as I will prove from the text internal evidence:

Revelation 1:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” (NAS)

The MAIN reason this verse is God speaking and not Jesus is the phrase, “the Lord God…the Almighty.” Jesus Christ is NEVER referred to as the “Almighty.” Not one single place in the entire New Testament can you find Jesus described as the “Almighty” One; the Greek word for Almighty is “Pantokrator,” and means, “All ruling one.”

Furthermore Revelation 1:8 is a reference to God the Father (aka in the OT as Yahweh, Elohim, El, Eloah, etc) as the Creator, who is He that was in the beginning (alpha) and end of everything (omega) which has been created, including the creation of His son Jesus (read Genesis. 1:1).

I don’t know where Christians get it in the head that alpha and omega have anything to do with deity. It may stem from using only the King James Version, a Bible that has so many flaws in its Greek translation it should never be held as credible for the serious student of scripture. Below is the KJV rendering of Revelation 1:8 and I have highlighted in red the words erroneously added by the KJV translators:

Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending,” saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. KJV

@ bold, Stop with your lying, if at all possible. Because they tell the truth you maliciously call them disgruntled people.

as for the rest, address my post first, and I will show you again where you are wrong here also.

goodnews201668:


I am glad you are quoting Bible now not from links created by disgruntled people.

Now look at this, it's not from our source. It's for you to know others also know the truth about this issue.
Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must shortly take place; and He sent and communicated {it} by His angel to His bond-servant John. (NAS)

GOD gave the revelation TO Jesus Christ; if Jesus was truly “God” why does he need another “God” to give him the revelation?

You didn't reply to my post because you couldn't, however I will reply to you post.

Why do you deny the Father sharing with His Son?

This fact alone proves Jesus Christ is lesser in knowledge than God.

perhaps the Father knows more than the son, my flesh father knows more than me, but what it proves is that the Father and the Son share in what they do

The Trinitarian camp and the Jesus is God camp

Christians you mean

simply cannot explain Revelation 1:1.

Just believe what is written:
God gave Jesus revelation, and Jesus sent it with His Angel to John.

Revelation 1:4-6 John TO the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him (God the Father) who is and who was and who is to come; AND from the seven Spirits who are before His throne; AND from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the first-born of the dead, AND the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him (Jesus) who loves us, and released us from our sins by his blood, AND he (Jesus) has made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father; to him (God the Father) be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen. (NAS)

John writes his apocalypse in very clear terms; he addresses the “seven churches” in Asia, and then qualifies exactly to whom and from WHOM each message was given. First he gives supreme recognition to God the Father by addressing Him as, “Him who is and who was and who is to come.” Many Christians mistake this phrase as referring to Jesus without carefully reading the grammatical structure of the paragraph. The paragraph reads, “…Him who is and who was and who is to come AND FROM Jesus Christ.” In Revelation 1:5 Jesus is not God BECAUSE he made a kingdom of priests to, “his God.” Jesus has made his church to be a kingdom, priests, “to his God and Father.” How could Jesus be “God” in heaven if his kingdom belongs to, “his God and Father?”


The answer is that Revelation 1:8 is NOT Jesus speaking; it is the Father God speaking, as I will prove from the text internal evidence:

Revelation 1:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” (NAS)

The MAIN reason this verse is God speaking and not Jesus is the phrase, “the Lord God…the Almighty.” Jesus Christ is NEVER referred to as the “Almighty.” Not one single place in the entire New Testament can you find Jesus described as the “Almighty” One; the Greek word for Almighty is “Pantokrator,” and means, “All ruling one.”

Furthermore Revelation 1:8 is a reference to God the Father (aka in the OT as Yahweh, Elohim, El, Eloah, etc) as the Creator, who is He that was in the beginning (alpha) and end of everything (omega) which has been created, including the creation of His son Jesus (read Genesis. 1:1).

I don’t know where Christians get it in the head that alpha and omega have anything to do with deity. It may stem from using only the King James Version, a Bible that has so many flaws in its Greek translation it should never be held as credible for the serious student of scripture. Below is the KJV rendering of Revelation 1:8 and I have highlighted in red the words erroneously added by the KJV translators:

Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending,” saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. KJV

re last six paragraphs on rev 1:8

what blind rubbish you write, of course rev 1:8 is Jesus Speaking

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

verses 5-8 are concerning Jesus, previous verse 7, who is it that is said to be coming with clouds?
who was it that was pierced?

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.


It is Jesus speaking to the Churches, or perhaps supposed jw's say that the Father was dead.

Rev 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

johnw74:


@ bold, Stop with your lying, if at all possible. Because they tell the truth you maliciously call them disgruntled people.

as for the rest, address my post first, and I will show you again where you are wrong here also.

what is the truth?

paulGrundy:


Yet with all the 'truth' of the holy spirit that your society knows, she is still confused. No gifts of the spirit, no miracles, No special experience to prove that Jehovah backs your organization. Just bedroom talk about how an imaginary and invisible Jesus visited the earth and choose the watchtower as his mouth-piece.

Its so easy to decieve people in the name of religion

That mean someone suffering from malaria can claim to see Jesus, and then create one funny organization claiming absolute Truth.

Truth be told, the watchtower does not have the holyspirit. The holy spirit is the spirit of Truth. John 16:13. As long as a lie or "apostasy" as you guys call it, is found in doctrine, its proof that you don't have the holy-spirit, no matter how you try to rationalize it away.

Its dangerous to give your absolute loyalty, to a human directed organization.

what are fruitage of holy spirit? Gal 5:22,23. you cannot claim to have holy spirit and living in contrary to that verses. it is just about speaking in tongue.
what is speaking in tongue.

In the Bible, we read of some men and women who were given power to speak languages that they had never learned. This first occurred on the day of Pentecost 33 C.E., a few weeks after the death of Jesus Christ. On that day in Jerusalem, some 120 disciples of Jesus “became filled with holy spirit and started to speak with different tongues.” Visitors from foreign lands “were bewildered, because each one heard them speaking in his own language.”— .
The Bible mentions other early followers of Jesus who had this remarkable ability. For example, empowered by holy spirit, the apostle Paul could miraculously speak in numerous tongues. ( ) But any such gift of God’s holy spirit should logically have a good purpose. So, what purpose did speaking in tongues serve in Bible times?
A Sign of God’s Backing
When writing to Christians in the city of Corinth, some of whom apparently could speak in tongues, Paul explained that “tongues are for a sign . . . to the unbelievers.” (
) Hence, along with other miraculous abilities, the power to speak in tongues was an indication to observers that the newly formed Christian congregation had God’s approval and backing. The miraculous gifts were like a street marker pointing out where truth-seekers should now go to find God’s chosen people.
Significantly, the Bible does not mention that Jesus or any of the pre-Christian prophets miraculously spoke in tongues that they had not learned. The gift of tongues bestowed upon Jesus’ disciples, then, evidently had some additional objective.
A Tool to Spread the Good News
Early in his ministry, Jesus directed his disciples to preach the good news of God’s Kingdom to the Jews only. ( ) As a result, the disciples rarely set foot outside of areas predominantly inhabited by Jews. But that would soon change.
Shortly after his death in 33 C.E., the resurrected Jesus commanded his followers to “make disciples of people of all the nations.” He also told his followers that they would be witnesses of him “to the most distant part of the earth.” ( ) Spreading the good news to that extent would require the use of many tongues other than Hebrew.
However, many of those early disciples were “unlettered and ordinary.” ( ) How, then, would they be able to preach in distant lands where languages were spoken that they may never have heard of, let alone learned to speak? Holy spirit empowered some of those zealous preachers with the miraculous ability to preach fluently in languages they had never before learned to speak.
Thus, the gift of tongues served two vital purposes. First, it provided a sign as evidence of God’s backing. Second, it was an effective tool to help the first-century Christians fulfill their commission to preach to people of many languages. Does the speaking in tongues done in many churches today accomplish these purposes?
Speaking in Tongues Today—A Sign of God’s Backing?
Where would you post a sign to benefit as many individuals as possible in your community? Inside a small building? Of course not! The account of the day of Pentecost tells us that a “multitude” of passersby observed the sign provided by the disciples’ miraculous speaking in tongues. Why, as a result, “about three thousand souls were added” to the Christian congregation on that day! ( ) If people today claim to speak in tongues but do so within the confines of a church building, how can the practice serve as a public sign to multitudes of unbelievers?
God’s Word mentions fornication and other “works of the flesh” as being opposed to the operation of holy spirit, adding that “those who practice such things will not inherit God’s kingdom.” ( ) If you observe people of questionable morals speaking in tongues, you might rightly wonder, ‘Would it not be inconsistent—even misleading—for God’s holy spirit to be bestowed on individuals who persistently engage in conduct that God’s own Word condemns?’ That would be like installing a street sign that directs traffic the wrong way.
Speaking in Tongues Today—A Tool to Spread the Good News?
What about the other purpose of the gift of tongues in the first century? Does the speaking in tongues practiced in churches serve as a tool for preaching the good news to people of different languages? Recall that observers who were in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost 33 C.E. were from many lands, and they clearly understood the languages miraculously spoken by the disciples. In contrast, those who speak in tongues today usually utter speech that is unintelligible to any listener.
Clearly, modern-day speaking in tongues is very different from the gift of holy spirit given to Jesus’ early followers. In fact, there is no reliable record of anyone receiving that same miraculous power since the death of the apostles. This is not surprising to Bible readers. Regarding the miraculous gifts, including that of speaking in tongues, the inspired apostle Paul prophesied: “They will cease.” ( ) How, then, can one discern who has the holy spirit today?
Who Give Evidence of Having Holy Spirit?
Jesus well knew that the gift of tongues would cease relatively soon after the formation of the Christian congregation. Shortly before he died, Jesus mentioned a timeless sign, or mark, that would identify his true followers. “By this all will know that you are my disciples,” he said, “if you have love among yourselves.” ( ) In fact, in the same verse where God’s Word foretold that the miraculous gifts would eventually cease, it says: “Love never fails.”— .
Love is listed as the first of nine aspects of “the fruitage,” or product, of God’s holy spirit. ( ) So those who truly have God’s spirit—and hence God’s backing—would show genuine love for one another. In addition, the third aspect of the spirit’s fruitage is peace. Thus, those people who today have holy spirit would be committed to peace, earnestly seeking to rise above bigotry, racism, and violence.
Also, recall Jesus’ prophecy recorded at . He foretold that his disciples would receive power to be witnesses of him “to the most distant part of the earth.” Jesus also indicated that this work would continue “unto the end of the world.” ( , King James Version) Hence, this international preaching work would continue to be an identifying mark of those who are truly empowered by holy spirit.
What do you think? With what group of people do you find evidence of holy spirit today? Who are manifesting the spirit’s fruitage, particularly love and peace, to the extent that they suffer at the hands of governments because of their refusal to bear arms worldwide? (
) Who are endeavoring to avoid the works of the flesh, such as fornication, even removing unrepentant practicers of such conduct from their midst? ( ) Who are preaching in all the earth the good news that God’s Kingdom is the only hope for humanity?
— .

paulGrundy:


Assuming I pretend to agree with you, then why is the preaching of Jesus left out by JW's?

jw preach about Christ. imitate Jesus convention was dedicated to Jesus last year.

joyandfaith:


what is the truth?

Don't be a coward, address the points in my posts and then I will tell you what is the truth, because you certainly don't know.

joyandfaith:


jw preach about Christ. imitate Jesus convention was dedicated to Jesus last year.

Supposed jw preach a false christ who is "a god".

johnw74:


re last six paragraphs on rev 1:8

what blind rubbish you write, of course rev 1:8 is Jesus Speaking

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

verses 5-8 are concerning Jesus, previous verse 7, who is it that is said to be coming with clouds?
who was it that was pierced?

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.


It is Jesus speaking to the Churches, or perhaps supposed jw's say that the Father was dead.

Rev 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

So now g news you can see that John was not talking about the Father but about Jesus christ when he called Him the Almighty.
Or maybe you will go on rejecting the Lord Jesus Christ, and go on following your christ who is "a god" right up until you are about to be thrown into the Lake Of Fire, I believe it will be too late for you then.

johnw74:

Supposed jw preach a false christ who is "a god".

jw preach about son of God who died for our sin.

johnw74:


re last six paragraphs on rev 1:8

what blind rubbish you write, of course rev 1:8 is Jesus Speaking

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

verses 5-8 are concerning Jesus, previous verse 7, who is it that is said to be coming with clouds?
who was it that was pierced?

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.


It is Jesus speaking to the Churches, or perhaps supposed jw's say that the Father was dead.

Rev 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

You have started condemning me already? No wahala. But before you do please take to study the book of revelation and other scriptures and what they said about Christ and his God and Father.

And remember the book of revelation talks about Jehovah and Jesus but then if you take time to review it you'll see that Jehovah is superior.

Rev.1
[ 1] The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him,

(take note God gave unto him to show his servants)

to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
[ 2] Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw

(two persons here, remember Bible said word of God and the testimony of Christ!)

[ 3] Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
[ 4] John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

(Here refers to Jehovah himself he alone occupies the throne in the heavenly setting, then the next verse referred to Jesus. That's why you will read and. 'Take note and')

[ 5] And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
[ 6] And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father;

(and he made us kings and priests unto his GOD and FATHER)

to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
[ 7] Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
[ 8] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
(This place is referring to Jehovah, in the old testament it's common to read thus said the lord when referring to Almighty God Jehovah the father and God of Jesus Christ! In my previous comment I talked about this.)

Revelation 2:8 if you read it very well it's reminding us about Jesus revelation, read from beginning. He is the only person to be resurrected by Jehovah himself to a spirit form of live! Christ was the first and the last which was dead and was resurrected by Jehovah himself. But in case you forget, if you concluded so maybe you are telling us you killed God and am afraid I can't even help you!

joyandfaith:


jw preach about son of God who died for our sin.

Supposed jw preach a false christ who is "a god".

goodnews201668:



You have started condemning me already? No wahala. But before you do please take to study the book of revelation and other scriptures and what they said about Christ and his God and Father.

And remember the book of revelation talks about Jehovah and Jesus but then if you take time to review it you'll see that Jehovah is superior.

Rev.1
[ 1] The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him,

(take note God gave unto him to show his servants)

to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
[ 2] Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw

(two persons here, remember Bible said word of God and the testimony of Christ!)

[ 3] Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
[ 4] John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

(Here refers to Jehovah himself he alone occupies the throne in the heavenly setting, then the next verse referred to Jesus. That's why you will read and. 'Take note and')

[ 5] And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
[ 6] And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father;

(and he made us kings and priests unto his GOD and FATHER)

to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
[ 7] Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
[ 8] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
(This place is referring to Jehovah, in the old testament it's common to read thus said the lord when referring to Almighty God Jehovah the father and God of Jesus Christ! In my previous comment I talked about this.)

Revelation 2:8 if you read it very well it's reminding us about Jesus revelation, read from beginning. He is the only person to be resurrected by Jehovah himself to a spirit form of live! Christ was the first and the last which was dead and was resurrected by Jehovah himself. But in case you forget, if you concluded so maybe you are telling us you killed God and am afraid I can't even help you!

@bold, You condemmed yourself when you joined the supposed jw sect and said the Word is "a god"


@red, What absolute nonsense, and all because you cannot address my post
supposed jw don't answer because they cannot, and then talk rot in trying to get away from issues where they have been shown to be wrong.

Answer my points, for example: Jesus adressed the seven Churches, not the Father as you said, and answer all the other points as well.

johnw74:


@bold, You condemmed yourself when you joined the supposed jw sect and said the Word is "a god"


@red, What absolute nonsense, and all because you cannot address my post
supposed jw don't answer because they cannot, and then talk rot in trying to get away from issues where they have been shown to be wrong.

Answer my points, for example: Jesus adressed the seven Churches, not the Father as you said, and answer all the other points as well.

Oga you are just confused my answer is very straight and precise, it's clear in the Bible. Revelation 1:1 clearly shows the visions came from Jesus and it was giving to him by his father and God which is Jehovah! read again.

I am not surprised you guys will just beating around the bush always and shifting the goal post. Any sound mind will see the sense in my explanations, I was even thinking you will come up with another portion. You are Paul Grundy, I know I have seen his traits!

goodnews201668:


Oga you are just confused my answer is very straight and precise, it's clear in the Bible. Revelation 1:1 clearly shows the visions came from Jesus and it was giving to him by his father and God which is Jehovah! read again.

duh, all you supposed jw's don't answer points made and go into confusion.
Father gave revelation to Jesus, Jesus sent it to John by His Angel, simple, and what about it, no one questioned that.

goodnews201668:
I am not surprised you guys will just beating around the bush always and shifting the goal post. Any sound mind will see the sense in my explanations, I was even thinking you will come up with another portion. You are Paul Grundy, I know I have seen his traits!

Ha ha, now this is getting even more interisting,
who else is Paul Grundy? are you going to answer g newsy, or are you going to go dumb and confused again.

johnw74:


Don't be a coward, address the points in my posts and then I will tell you what is the truth, because you certainly don't know.

if you do no know meaning of truth, you will not understand. so what is truth?