colp2015:
Not quite!

Satan is a complex being. You can't pin him to any particular action or situation. If God had said to Adam and Eve ''Hey, look out for serpent, your enemy may use it to deceive you..'' Please read below for the situation in the Garden of Eden.

First, man knew nothing about Satan. The whole concept of Satan could not sink because Satan is invisible.

Second, Satan would use another method to carry out his enterprise. This is perhaps the most difficult aspect of Satan's nature. He can manifest in any form he chooses.

So, the problem was not about God, but the limitation of man's understanding.

Man simply did not know that Satan was in the garden/earth. The story is the same for every one who repudiates the existence of God and Satan.



To underscore my posit on this issue, I'd like to ask you a question:

Do you know that Satan is the ruler of this world?

I urge you to read an interesting article on http://faithfuljoel.com/2015/07/the-tree-of-knowledge-of-good-evil/

Nmeri17:
You can use as much allusion as you like, as long as you answer the question posited. It's not even a challenging question but I even know the answer more than you the supposed Christian Lol. Maybe you should join me

OP said, in His omniscience He knew we lack self control, why did He still put the damned bread in the fridge? Simple question.

Why was the bread not given the house help or the house rats or even thrown in the garbage?
Where's kingebukasblog

cloudgoddess:
Super idiotic assertions here.

KingEbukasBlog:


How far ?

cloudgoddess:

I read the link and the argument put forward there is very nonsensical.

Satan was too powerful, so God was unable to disclose his presence to Adam & Eve? Foolishness. How does Satan being powerful/invisible prevent God from putting a warning sign? If anything Satan's "ultra powerful-ness" and invisibility would be even MORE reason for God to DO SOMETHING to INFORM/PROTECT HIS CREATIONS rather than simply allow Satan to work is way into Adam & Eve's minds, especially when he knew they would be too mentally unfit (and lacking in knowledge) to be able to resist!

And, Satan's super-powerful complexity and deceptive abilities are even more reason why it makes NO SENSE AT ALL for Yahweh to have PUNISHED Adam & Eve for blundering, especially with such severity of punishment (cursing them and every generation of human beings?). THEY WERE NO MATCH FOR SATAN THE FIRST PLACE - they did not know of his existence AND they were not suited to overcome his deceptive abilities. That is like putting a mouse and a lion in a cage for a fight, sitting back and watching the lion tear the mouse to shreds, and then punishing and damning the mouse (and every member of the mouse's familly, and all future decendents) when he inevitably loses the fight. Nonsensical, unfair, and cruel.

That blog is just more mental gymnastics that answers nothing, creates even more questions, and dodges the problem at hand. A convoluted non-answer that is extremely typical of apologetic arguments.

analice107:

No one can make you believe anything. The facts will be stated before you, the choice to believe is solely yours.
What is Atheism. Atheism is refusing to believe there's a supreme being. Or the unbelieve in the supernatural, hence; the believe in one's self.
Adam started the believe in self. Rejected God's rule over him.

colp2015:
The way you are arguing against the blog post would have been the same way Adam and Eve would ask endless questions about Satan, his nature and modus operandi. It's a futile exercise to discuss about an invisible entity with Man. The problem was never with God, but the limitations of man. Man was incapable of understanding Satan and his forces. The Bible describes him as a Dragon with seven heads. The most practical way to alert Man of another entity in the Garden of Eden was to give Adam an instruction like God did. To people like you, God and Satan are nothing more than figments of man's imagination.

The reason for creating man predates the drama recorded in Genesis. God actually wanted man to dominate the forces of darkness on earth.

The argument in your post is valid to some extent, but have you ever wondered why God decided to save Man? Man was disadvantaged from the beginning, but not without an instruction that gave him an edge over Satan.

In addition to the submission above, God actually wanted man to know that Satan was, and still is, in the world. Adam and Eve, though, were no match for their enemy, they were capable of obeying a simple instruction. They were given a choice to live by God's enabling power or live independent of him. They made their choice and consequently plunged their kind into a mess.

The question to you is: What's your take on God's salvation plan for man?

You cannot straddle the fence on this matter: if you reject the creation story in the Bible, then you must be bold to say that the Christian faith is a hoax.

cloudgoddess:


It's a futile exercise to discuss about an invisible entity with Man.
It's a futile exercise to discuss things that have not been proven to exist. There are invisible things who's existence of which we have clear, objective evidence for, and can thus discuss productively.

The problem was never with God, but the limitations of man.
But... God created man. So God created those very limitations. In fact, the problem is precisely with God. Adam had no say in how he was made.

If a sculptor makes a flawed piece, do you blame the piece for being flawed, or the sculptor for being unskilled? The fact that God can even create something imperfect clearly contradicts the idea that he is perfect.

Man was incapable of understanding Satan and his forces.
Again, God's fault. He could've easily given man the ability if he wanted to.

God actually wanted man to dominate the forces of darkness on earth.
So why couldn't we? If God is truly all-powerful then he should get exactly what he wants. Nothing is superior to Him, correct? So why should anything, or anyone be able to interfere with his plans?

have you ever wondered why God decided to save Man?
Save Man from what? The very problems he created by making them flawed in the first place?

Adam and Eve, though, were no match for their enemy, they were capable of obeying a simple instruction.
Actually, no. This statement is self-contradictory.

That they were no match for the enemy means that they in fact were not capable of obeying the instruction. Them obeying the instruction was a potentiality that would only be actualized IF they indeed WERE a match for Satan & capable of discerning his trickery.

if you reject the creation story in the Bible, then you must be bold to say that the Christian faith is a hoax.
That is precisely my stance. Christianity is a hoax, along with the thousands of religions that came before and after it.

Humans created religions and the God(s) within them to explain things they did not understand (like weather, disease, and death), to maintain control over societies, to give hope and emotional comfort, the list goes on.

Before science, before medicine, before education, before space travel and exploration, before widespread availability of food and resources, humans needed some sort of guiding ideas for their societies, some semblence of protection, and some relief from the fear of dying (since death was far more frequent and common in the absense of medicine & reliable food production).

So every society created their own ideas of gods, and what supposedly pleases those gods (typically aligned with whatever the society valued at that time). The religions with the most powerful supporters conquered, and the ones less popular died out. Emperor Constantine of Rome is the reason Christianity still exists today. He spread it forcefully throughout that geographical region, and history ran it's course.

This proclivity of religion to to fill gaps in understanding and provide comfort in harsh societal climates is still clear today; we see that most under-developed countries who lack access to education, medicine, science and resources, also have the highest degree of religious belief. And the countries that are thriving, making steady scientific progress, living long and living peacefully, have very low rates of religiosity. Because they no longer need those comforting imaginative ideas.

gossipatrol:
I asked my aunty this question when I was young and she told me that God made it clear to them that they must not eat from the tree of good and evil... and that by so doing he gave man "will" to choose to do that which is good or bad, obedience or disobedience.

It goes to show that God did not create slaves because he gave us "freewill"

gossipatrol:
I asked my aunty this question when I was young and she told me that God made it clear to them that they must not eat from the tree of good and evil... and that by so doing he gave man "will" to choose to do that which is good or bad, obedience or disobedience.

It goes to show that God did not create slaves because he gave us "freewill"

Tjayjosh:
@Op. The bible says, God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth (Genesis 1:27-28 KJV). And then here God commanded the man saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: "But of the three of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" (Genesis 2:16-17). God gave man everything, and wanted something back in return. Let me brake this down. God put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden to give Adam and Eve a choice to obey Him or disobey Him. Adam and Eve were free to do anything they wanted, except eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. If God had not given Adam and Eve the choice, they would have essentially been robots, simply doing what they were programmed to do. God created
Adam and Eve to be free beings, able to make decisions, able to choose between good and evil. In order for Adam and
Eve to truly be free, they had to have a choice. Hear this, the bible let us to know that God is omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent. With all this power, knowledge and versatility that God posseses. He cannot control you or alter your freewill. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil was a. symbol. God said, "if ye love me, keep my commandments" (John 14:15). That tree was the only way God could get love back from the man He loved and gave everything.

cloudgoddess:

Truth. Obvious truth.

But you are too brainwashed to see it.

cloudgoddess:


It's a futile exercise to discuss about an invisible entity with Man.
It's a futile exercise to discuss things that have not been proven to exist. There are invisible things who's existence of which we have clear, objective evidence for, and can thus discuss productively.

The problem was never with God, but the limitations of man.
But... God created man. So God created those very limitations. In fact, the problem is precisely with God. Adam had no say in how he was made.

If a sculptor makes a flawed piece, do you blame the piece for being flawed, or the sculptor for being unskilled? The fact that God can even create something imperfect clearly contradicts the idea that he is perfect.

Man was incapable of understanding Satan and his forces.
Again, God's fault. He could've easily given man the ability if he wanted to.

God actually wanted man to dominate the forces of darkness on earth.
So why couldn't we? If God is truly all-powerful then he should get exactly what he wants. Nothing is superior to Him, correct? So why should anything, or anyone be able to interfere with his plans?

have you ever wondered why God decided to save Man?
Save Man from what? The very problems he created by making them flawed in the first place?

Adam and Eve, though, were no match for their enemy, they were capable of obeying a simple instruction.
Actually, no. This statement is self-contradictory.

That they were no match for the enemy means that they in fact were not capable of obeying the instruction. Them obeying the instruction was a potentiality that would only be actualized IF they indeed WERE a match for Satan & capable of discerning his trickery.

if you reject the creation story in the Bible, then you must be bold to say that the Christian faith is a hoax.
That is precisely my stance. Christianity is a hoax, along with the thousands of religions that came before and after it.

Humans created religions and the God(s) within them to explain things they did not understand (like weather, disease, and death), to maintain control over societies, to give hope and emotional comfort, the list goes on.

Before science, before medicine, before education, before space travel and exploration, before widespread availability of food and resources, humans needed some sort of guiding ideas for their societies, some semblence of protection, and some relief from the fear of dying (since death was far more frequent and common in the absense of medicine & reliable food production).

So every society created their own ideas of gods, and what supposedly pleases those gods (typically aligned with whatever the society valued at that time). The religions with the most powerful supporters conquered, and the ones less popular died out. Emperor Constantine of Rome is the reason Christianity still exists today. He spread it forcefully throughout that geographical region, and history ran it's course.

This proclivity of religion to to fill gaps in understanding and provide comfort in harsh societal climates is still clear today; we see that most under-developed countries who lack access to education, medicine, science and resources, also have the highest degree of religious belief. And the countries that are thriving, making steady scientific progress, living long and living peacefully, have very low rates of religiosity. Because they no longer need those comforting imaginative ideas.

booqee:
I keep wondering why did God even create the tree of life in the garden of Eden in the first place if He didn't want man to sin..

Some say its intentional... if it is, why was He so displeased to the extent of placing a curse on them...

He created us as man.. not as gods or heavenly creatures.. so of course he was easy and prone to falling for temptation.. so I assumed He knew from the start while creating him, that man would fall by eating the forbidden fruit...

so why bother creating it and then cursing man when it is believed He knew he would fall.. (that's the part that makes it look unfair) .. its similar to setting a concealed trap right in front of us..


I'm confused honestly ..

contributions are welcome

lookingfly:
I just don't believe Adam rejected God's rule because he started believing in himself. But I know Adam sinned by eating from the tree God said he shouldn't eat. What has adams sin got to do with Adam being the origin of atheism?

Sacluxpaint:


So why was Pharoah's heart hardened?

colp2015:
As stated earlier, the problem with you was the same problem with Adam. With all the seeming intelligence you demonstrate on this thread, you still fail to see all the evidences of EVIL, nay the presence of Satan, in the world. Your very essence is flawed just like Adam was a flawed creation.

Adam had no say in his make-up, but he understood that when man is hungry, s/he eats food, not poison, to quench the hunger. Adam and Eve were intelligent enough to understand what it means to 'be wise like God;' thus their desire to be like God.

Adam was a sentient being - a being capable of independent action. He was not an inanimate object devoid of intellect, emotion and volition. In fact, Adam was endowed with sufficient wisdom, hence he put the blame of his disobedience on Eve.

Actually there are people on earth dreaded by Satan. They are folks who maintain holiness and righteousness through Christ Jesus. God is powerful and He's getting His desires through believers in Christ Jesus.

...to save man from eternal perdition, separation of man from God. ''God is in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their sins unto them...'' 2 Cor 5:19.

No! It's not contradictory! You simply refuse to engage your faculties! God did not discuss with Adam and Eve about Satan - just as Christians are instructed not to expend their energy and time on the devil, but to abide in Christ - God simply gave Adam and Eve a simple instruction to guide them from becoming captives in the Devil's net.

The statement above is a mockery of your intellect. Adam and Eve wanted to be like God, hence their disobedience. Don't suspend your faculties, lady!

I knew you would say that! I was on board the same boat with you until God rescued me. You will soon see the light, because people like you (as was I) will never leave the Christian faith and its adherents alone. Why do you bother to read the Bible since you believe it is a compendium of fairy tales put together to control the minds of the 'gullible'?

analice107:

Because atheism is the worship of self.
Satan worships himself instead of his creator. Satan made man to also worship himself. Adam fell into the trap. The trap Satan set for Jesus when he tempted him, but Jesus bounced.
Can u now see?

lookingfly:
so atheism is now the worship of self (pls which dictionary gave that defination). The fact that someone says he/she doesn't believe in God, doesn't mean that person worship him/her self. Satan only wanted to be worshipped just like God, but he really acknowledged the presence of God. So how is that atheism...... Pls check your dictionary for the meaning of atheism. Ok

Tjayjosh:

Was Pharaoh an innocent or godly man who did not oppose/harden his heart, and spoke against God's command?

analice107:

Am, this guy. You are deceived into believing atheism is just an unbelief in God. Everybody worships something dear. Everyone.
You are an Atheist and you don't know this?
O boy. Atheism is the worship of self.
Anyways. Any enough said about this matter.

gossipatrol:
I asked my aunty this question when I was young and she told me that God made it clear to them that they must not eat from the tree of good and evil... and that by so doing he gave man "will" to choose to do that which is good or bad, obedience or disobedience.

It goes to show that God did not create slaves because he gave us "freewill"

cloudgoddess:

Actually, NO.

YOU worship something, and because you and the likes of you are so brainwashed beyond any concievable measure, you can not fathom that other humans exist who do NOT need to "worship" things, people, or objects, to carry on their lives peacefully. Your assertions are unfounded, incredibly bigoted, and annoying to read. Just saying things over and over will never make them true. Bring your evidence for these outrageous claims and maybe people will take you seriously.

But of course, you have no evidence, because your ideas are borne solely out of the programmed need to defend your religious beliefs at all costs, despite how ridiculous you have to make yourself look, and how much you have to degrade humanity in order to do so. The expected fruits of an indoctrinated mind. And you wonder why the nonreligious are so sickened by all of this.

Larryfly:
God is not a human that he should give you reasons for His actions. He has told you what to do shikena do it or dont do it at your own peril.


Even Buhari sef wont explain why he is travelling upandan when the country is upside down.

DrLazDevitan:


Freewill or freechoice is inherent,transhistoric and universal attribute of humanity.No one was given for free,not even a god can do that...

cloudgoddess:

Actually, NO.

YOU worship something, and because you and the likes of you are so brainwashed beyond any concievable measure, you can not fathom that other humans exist who do NOT need to "worship" things, people, or objects, to carry on their lives peacefully. Your assertions are unfounded, incredibly bigoted, and annoying to read. Just saying things over and over will never make them true. Bring your evidence for these outrageous claims and maybe people will take you seriously.

But of course, you have no evidence, because your ideas are borne solely out of the programmed need to defend your religious beliefs at all costs, despite how ridiculous you have to make yourself look, and how much you have to degrade humanity in order to do so. The expected fruits of an indoctrinated mind. And you wonder why the nonreligious are so sickened by all of this.

analice107:

It sounds ridiculous to you because your mind is blinded. But that's okay. The day you will receive the gift of the Spirit you'll understand and these things will cease sounding ridiculous to you

1 Corinthians 2:14 says; But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.

See why I don't hold anything against you?
But there's time for everything and season. Now is when we are here sounding as ridiculous as we can, but nevertheless presenting this gospel to you. A time will come you'll wish you listened.
May the Lord help you.

Tjayjosh:

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God (1 Corinthians 1:18).

cloudgoddess:


It's a futile exercise to discuss about an invisible entity with Man.
It's a futile exercise to discuss things that have not been proven to exist. There are invisible things who's existence of which we have clear, objective evidence for, and can thus discuss productively.

The problem was never with God, but the limitations of man.
But... God created man. So God created those very limitations. In fact, the problem is precisely with God. Adam had no say in how he was made.

If a sculptor makes a flawed piece, do you blame the piece for being flawed, or the sculptor for being unskilled? The fact that God can even create something imperfect clearly contradicts the idea that he is perfect.

Man was incapable of understanding Satan and his forces.
Again, God's fault. He could've easily given man the ability if he wanted to.

God actually wanted man to dominate the forces of darkness on earth.
So why couldn't we? If God is truly all-powerful then he should get exactly what he wants. Nothing is superior to Him, correct? So why should anything, or anyone be able to interfere with his plans?

have you ever wondered why God decided to save Man?
Save Man from what? The very problems he created by making them flawed in the first place?

Adam and Eve, though, were no match for their enemy, they were capable of obeying a simple instruction.
Actually, no. This statement is self-contradictory.

That they were no match for the enemy means that they in fact were not capable of obeying the instruction. Them obeying the instruction was a potentiality that would only be actualized IF they indeed WERE a match for Satan & capable of discerning his trickery.

if you reject the creation story in the Bible, then you must be bold to say that the Christian faith is a hoax.
That is precisely my stance. Christianity is a hoax, along with the thousands of religions that came before and after it.

Humans created religions and the God(s) within them to explain things they did not understand (like weather, disease, and death), to maintain control over societies, to give hope and emotional comfort, the list goes on.

Before science, before medicine, before education, before space travel and exploration, before widespread availability of food and resources, humans needed some sort of guiding ideas for their societies, some semblence of protection, and some relief from the fear of dying (since death was far more frequent and common in the absense of medicine & reliable food production).

So every society created their own ideas of gods, and what supposedly pleases those gods (typically aligned with whatever the society valued at that time). The religions with the most powerful supporters conquered, and the ones less popular died out. Emperor Constantine of Rome is the reason Christianity still exists today. He spread it forcefully throughout that geographical region, and history ran it's course.

This proclivity of religion to to fill gaps in understanding and provide comfort in harsh societal climates is still clear today; we see that most under-developed countries who lack access to education, medicine, science and resources, also have the highest degree of religious belief. And the countries that are thriving, making steady scientific progress, living long and living peacefully, have very low rates of religiosity. Because they no longer need those comforting imaginative ideas.

Princewell2012:


Mmmmm, is it not better they were remained robot, than they been given a choice and ended up in everlasting fire

analice107:

See how good you are as the Devil's advocate, meanwhile you don't believe the devil exists.
When I say it over and over that atheists are Satanists, those who don't understand disbelieve.
Stand firm darling, defend Satan, when you stand before the Judgement seat, Satan will be your advocate. Hahahahaha.