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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? (22588 Views)
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Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by Medicis(m): 6:30pm On Apr 19, 2016 |
dolphinheart:Hello! Pls are you an atheist or Muslim? I'll really wanna know your faith b4 I respond. |
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by dolphinheart(m): 6:37pm On Apr 19, 2016 |
Medicis: does my faith determine the truth? no does my faith determines what the scriptures says? no does my faith determine if you will tell me you view of the scriptures I quoted to you or not? I guess so it will. so ill tell you this, I'm a follower of christ. |
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by Medicis(m): 6:42pm On Apr 19, 2016 |
dolphinheart:Follower of Christ.. Ie you believe he died on the cross and rose from the dead and that he is the son of the living God Right ![]() |
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by Jessicha(f): 6:42pm On Apr 19, 2016 |
Medicis: dont just quote anything, none of the verse above said soul of man is immortal, for sampling see 1 cor 15:53,54 yourself as it testify that man is MORTAL " will all be changed, in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we will be changed. For this which is corruptible must put on incorruption, and this which is mortal must put on immortal " the italics said nobody is changed incorruptible until they are ressurected . the Bold provides evidence that man is mortal , waiting to be changed to put on immortality
but how does the dribbles ànswer the op , wait o ... since God has given man immortality already, that means they cant die ? Satan said man will not die {immortality] , God said man will die [mortality] , who is lying ? dont forget u said God has given man immortality again, how can Jesus save immortal beings who cant die from DEATH ? its contradictory pls explain again, how can Jesus claim to give everlasting [ never ending] life to man, if they are immortals ? 2 Likes |
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by goodnews201668: 6:51pm On Apr 19, 2016 |
Medicis: Trash? Yet you can't refute it. Smh for you! If you are immortal why do you still need resurrection? |
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by Jessicha(f): 6:51pm On Apr 19, 2016 |
Medicis: dont you know you just contradict yourself again, Jesus DIED ? really ? but when he was on earth , is he not a MAN ? nd u said God has given Man immortality , abi ? oga, how could he die ? |
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by dolphinheart(m): 6:54pm On Apr 19, 2016 |
Medicis:I believe that Jesus died and was ressurected by God, yes I believe Jesus is the son of the living God. can you now respond to the scriptures quoted and explained? |
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by dorox(m): 7:39pm On Apr 19, 2016 |
Medicis: Last I checked atheist are not in the habit of using scriptures to argue their point and muslims also believe in the immortality of the soul, so it will safe to conclude that he is neither of those. |
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by Scholar8200(m): 8:53pm On Apr 19, 2016 |
Now the Bible says the devil and his angels will be tormented in the lake of fire for ever and the same has been active since the time of Genesis till now; does that mean the devil has Eternal life? Let someone answer! And since there are that claim that the story of Lazarus was just a symbol, let someone soundly exegesize that symbol and its meaning (backed by parallel scriptures vis a vis similar ones eg Matthew 25) once and for all. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by EMILO2STAY(m): 9:08pm On Apr 19, 2016 |
Humans are not immortals, humans are mortal beings that is why the bible said that when christ appears this mortality will put on immortality. Those who teach that humans are immortals are physicaly and spiritually blind some are Outright idiots who have rejected the teaching of scriptures for the teachings of men. Simply because they feel comfortable with the thought that humans continue to live after death. 3 Likes |
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by Scholar8200(m): 9:29pm On Apr 19, 2016 |
EMILO2STAY:Correct me if I am wrong, that passage refers to the corruptible , outer man, not the soul. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by CANTICLES: 7:31am On Apr 20, 2016 |
Scholar8200: If the lake of fire is a symbol of destruction, why does the Bible say that in it the Devil, the wild beast, and the false prophet “will be tormented day and night forever and ever”? ( Revelation 20:10) Consider four reasons why this torment does not refer to literal torture: 1. For the Devil to be tortured eternally, he would have to be kept alive forever. However, the Bible says that he will be brought to nothing, or put out of existence.— Hebrews 2:14 . 2. Everlasting life is a gift from God, not a punishment.— Romans 6:23 . 3. The wild beast and the false prophet are symbols and cannot experience literal torture. 4. The context of the Bible indicates that the torment of the Devil is everlasting restraint or destruction. The word used for “torment” in the Bible can also mean “a condition of restraint.” For example, the Greek word for “tormentors” used at Matthew 18:34 is rendered as “jailers” in many translations, showing the connection between the words “torment” and “restraint.” Likewise, the parallel accounts at Matthew 8:29 and Luke 8:30, 31 equate “torment” with “the abyss,” a figurative place of complete inactivity or death. ( Romans 10:7; Revelation 20:1, 3 ) In fact, several times the book of Revelation uses the word “torment” in a symbolic sense.— Revelation 9:5; 11:10; 18:7, 10
The Jerusalem Bible, in a footnote, acknowledges that it is a “parable in story form without reference to any historical personage.” If taken literally, it would mean that those enjoying divine favor could all fit at the bosom of one man, Abraham; that the water on one’s fingertip would not be evaporated by the fire of Hades; that a mere drop of water would bring relief to one suffering there. Does that sound reasonable to you? If it were literal, it would conflict with other parts of the Bible. If the Bible were thus contradictory, would a lover of truth use it as a basis for his faith? But the Bible does not contradict itself. What does the parable mean? The “rich man” represented the Pharisees. (See verse 14) The beggar Lazarus represented the common Jewish people who were despised by the Pharisees but who repented and became followers of Jesus. (See Luke 18:11, john 7:49, matthew 21:31,32) Their deaths were also symbolic, representing a change in circumstances. Thus, the formerly despised ones came into a position of divine favor, and the formerly seemingly favored ones were rejected by God, while being tormented by the judgment messages delivered by the ones whom they had despised.— . Act 5:33; 7:54 |
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by CANTICLES: 7:33am On Apr 20, 2016 |
Scholar8200: and the man is the soul " the Man Became a living Soul " Gen 2:7, its the man that became a soul . |
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by Scholar8200(m): 8:12am On Apr 20, 2016 |
CANTICLES:Living in a body. Adam was not a corpse before God breathed in Him! The death that occurred after the fall was that the Living soul was separated from his source of Life hence he died. Consider this: 46 And Mary said, “My soul magnifies and exalts the Lord, 47 And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior. Luke 1:46,47 Also: For the word of God is living and active and full of power [making it operative, energizing, and effective]. It is sharper than any two-edged [b]sword, penetrating as far as the division of the [c]soul and spirit [the completeness of a person], and of both joints and marrow [the deepest parts of our nature], exposing and judging the very thoughts and intentions of the heart Hebrew 4:12 |
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by Scholar8200(m): 8:52am On Apr 20, 2016 |
CANTICLES:Quote that passage for all to see. Quite distinct from immortality. That the devil has been since the time of Genesis till now, does that mean God loaned him Eternal Life? Your opinion till you prove this. Remember that Revelations is not the only place where the antichrist is mentioned. Consider the following: 26 Then after the sixty-two weeks [of years] the Anointed One will be cut off [and denied His Messianic kingdom] and have nothing [and no one to defend Him], and the people of the [other] prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined. 27 And he will enter into a binding and irrevocable covenant with the many for one week (seven years), but in the middle of the week he will stop the sacrifice and grain offering [for the remaining [size=14pt]three and one-half years][/b[/size]]; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until the complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who causes the horror. Daniel 9:26,27 Who is that other prince? Take particular notice of his period of operation and compare with: And when the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth, he persecuted the woman who had given birth to the male Child. 14 But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished for a [b]time and times and half a time (three and one-half years), away from the presence of the serpent (Satan). Revelation 12:13,14 Talking of how Israel would be preserved from the antics of that other prince/antichrist/beast for 3.5yrs. Now the Bible further speaks of the proxy that the devil/dragon/serpent will use: 3 Let no one in any way deceive or entrap you, for that day will not come unless the [c]apostasy comes first [that is, the great rebellion, the abandonment of the faith by professed Christians], and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction [the Antichrist, the one who is destined to be destroyed], 4 who opposes and exalts himself [so proudly and so insolently] above [d]every so-called god or object of worship, so that he [actually enters and] takes his seat in the temple of God, publicly proclaiming that he himself is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you, I was telling you these things? 6 And you know what restrains him now [from being revealed]; it is so that he will be revealed at his own [appointed] time. 9 The coming of the [Antichrist, the lawless] one is through the activity of Satan, [attended] with great power [all kinds of counterfeit miracles] and [deceptive] signs and false wonders [all of them lies], 2 Thessalonians 2 Yes Revelation uses symbols in SOME places (not ALL), but this one is clear enough! No sir, the contexts are not the same, the word used is explained here http://biblehub.com/strongs/greek/928.htm! The incarceration of the devil in the bottomlesss pit for a thousand years uses the word bind(more like restrain) but the Lake of fire and torment means what just it says otherwise, what differentiates the bottomless pit from the lake of fire Revelations 20:2-4? http://biblehub.com/strongs/greek/928.htm shows what was intended when the word was used. Besides, what purpose does the use of the word torment figuratively serve? That does not preclude the existence of the places mentioned! Why would Jesus make such far examples in a parable? What is a parable? Abraham's bosom is a place sir, that is why the parable talks of a big gulf fixed between both places!!! The fact that: 1. Both men died refutes your interpretation. Else what does that death symbolise? 2. the Rich man had brothers refutes this interpretation. Else, who are those brothers? 3. Lazarus was not sent to the brother of the rich man refutes this interpretation. Else, who are those to speak to those brothers? 4. there is no proof that the fire represents messages refutes this interpretation. Else, why the reference to Moses and the prophets literally? 5. Lazarus was not sent to either the rich man or his brothers refutes this interpretation. Else, what messages was tormenting the rich man? After all Lazarus (whom you claim delivered messages) NEVER spoke to the rich man! 6. Jesus referred to both sides immediately after death underscores the immortality of the soul. Else why use a false example for parabolic purposes? Is that not confusing? 7. Stephen at the point of his demise cried ,"Lord Jesus receive my SPIRIT" shows indeed this is not just a symbol but reality! Jesus also said something similar. etc Care to clarify further? 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by Medicis(m): 9:15am On Apr 20, 2016 |
dolphinheart:it means;(1)the soul that continues in sin, without repentance towards God, and faith in Christ, shall surely die the second death; shall be separated from the presence of God, and endure his wrath to all eternity: (2).or the meaning in the context of that bible verse is that a person that is guilty of gross sins, and continues inthem, shall personally suffer; he shall endure one calamity or another, as the famine, sword, pestilence, or be carried into captivity, which is the death all along spoken of in this chapter; the Lord will exercise no patience towards him, or defer punishment to a future generation, his offspring; but shall immediately execute it upon himself. Matt 10:28 "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. This verse shows that the body can be killed and the soul can still exist separately. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by Medicis(m): 9:21am On Apr 20, 2016 |
Jessicha:Stop confusing yourself. Even if said God gave man immortality, you should know I'm talking about the soul. 1 Like 2 Shares |
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by Scholar8200(m): 9:52am On Apr 20, 2016 |
Medicis:This settles it. Nothing symbolic here!!! 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by dolphinheart(m): 10:07am On Apr 20, 2016 |
Medicis: you can see that you had to add a lot of your personal views to make your explanation of that verse semi credible, the verse says, the soul that is sinning will die. In a short it explicitely tells us souls can die. I believe you are a Christian too, so pls make use of the scriptures when making these additions. you quoted part of matt 10: 28, but subtly omitted the second part of what happens to the soul and body in gehenna. that is not how we are supposed to discuss bro. We are discussing immortality of the soul, so I wunt digress by asking you how come the body and soul goes to the same place at death!, cus I thought you said they seperate. pls add your views of gen 2:7 to your reply when responding. you can also add gen 3:19 if you feel ok with it |
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by CANTICLES: 11:19am On Apr 20, 2016 |
Scholar8200: " therefore, since the young children are sharers of blood and flesh, he also similarly shared in the same things , so that through his death he might bring to nothing the one having the means to cause death, that is, the Devil " Heb 2:14 scripture clearly showed , Satan will be brought to nothing, reduced to non existence .
Heb 2:14 tells u satans end is destruction, he will be brought to nothing just as death the last enemy will be brought to nothing ' 1cor 15:26
are you saying, The BEAST and false prophet SYMBOLIZE the Antichrist ? then, what does the lake of fire to which they are thrown represents ?
the Lake of fire symbolize second death! anything said to be in the lake of fire will be no more Rev 20:14 said death is thrown into the lake of fire ? does it mean death ( a condition of been dead) will be literally burning forever ? not at all scripture explains it means " Death will be no more" Rev 21:4 not literal torment .
destruction "they will stand at a distance because of their fear of her [ babylon the great] TORment and say: Too bad, too bad, you great city, Babylon you strong city, because in one hour your judgement has arrived! " - Revelation 18:10 here babylon the great is said to experience TORMENT , yet its symbolic of her Destruction to non existence, how do we know ? " And a strong angel lifted up a stone like a great millstone and hurled it into the sea, saying: " Thus with a swift pitch wikl Babylon the great city be hurled down, ,AND SHE WILL NEVER BE FOUND AGAIN " Rev18:21
firstly , how can Abaraham bossom be a place if u insist the parable is literal ? my bossom is my chest position literally, why change the meaning of bossom to mean a PLACE ? 2 Likes |
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by CANTICLES: 11:24am On Apr 20, 2016 |
Scholar8200: there is a Living soul .. nephesh , that breathes nd there is a DEAD soul .. scripture rightly call a corpse a "dead soul" Numbers 6:6. dead soul, plain and simple . nothing imortal here 1 Like |
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by Jessicha(f): 11:33am On Apr 20, 2016 |
Medicis: wow, so the soul of Jesus is immortal ? the real man is the soul ryt ? ![]() moreover, Isaiah 53:12 said the Christ will pour out his soul to death , my brother how can an immortal soul be poured to death ? pls tell me 1 Like |
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by orunto27: 12:11pm On Apr 20, 2016 |
Jesus Christ is in Heaven as Son of God and Heir to The Throne of Grace. He keeps a Book where all the names of Saints are written. The saints are those already promised eternal life 'cos they believe in Christ Jesus. If you believe in Jesus Christ, when you die to sin, you become immortal saints by the order of Jesus Christ. 1 Like |
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by DoctorAlien(m): 2:25pm On Apr 20, 2016 |
The doctrine that the human soul is immortal is a terrible lie! There is absolutely no text in the Bible that supports that lie. When a man dies, he is in a complete and total state of rest. The notion that he merely leaves his physical body and goes elsewhere is a terrible lie which has no foundation in the Bible. This lie found its way into the Church in the middle ages when apostasy began creeping into the church and false doctrines such as spiritism, immortality of the soul (which are purely pagan beliefs) began gaining wide acceptance in the church. Nevertheless, we are not left unguided. The Bible is there to guide us. Now, consider this Bible text in clear contrast with the immortality of the soul: "...the soul that sinneth shall die" Ezek.18:4 Suffice it to say that the Bible definition of "soul" is not the popular definition of the soul. Majority hold the view that the soul is a separate entity from the body, although a part of being, which is immortal. This is not Biblical. |
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by DoctorAlien(m): 2:31pm On Apr 20, 2016 |
According to the Bible, only one person has immortality: “King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen” 1 Tim 6:15, 16. Nobody, apart from GOD, has immortality. |
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by DoctorAlien(m): 2:44pm On Apr 20, 2016 |
Now, the Bible definition of the soul? “And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul” Genesis 2:7 After GOD formed man, he was just a lifeless structure made of dust. Then GOD breathed into his nostrils, "and man became a living soul". It is now clear that the body plus the breath of life makes up the soul. Notice also these two words in Gen. 2:7 - "living soul". If there is a living soul, there can also be a dead soul. This is in stark contrast to the popular teaching that the soul cannot die. The soul, therefore, is not an immortal entity, neither is the soul separate from the body. |
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by Scholar8200(m): 2:51pm On Apr 20, 2016 |
CANTICLES:That passage reads dead body. Besides, Adam was alive and breathing before God breathed into him. Death was when he lost that Divine Inspiration and his soul was separate from God but he was still physically alive. That is the death of a soul - existence outside God. |
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by Scholar8200(m): 3:14pm On Apr 20, 2016 |
CANTICLES: Choosing one out of a number of synonyms is questionable! Especially when the view given by such choice clearly contradicts the Whole Picture as given by the Word. Besides, when will this destruction take place since the devil is still very active today. Rather, I would say the synonym ( you chose out of many) suggests that even though we all know spirits do not die. Explain this in the light of your claim: Then these [unbelieving people] will go away into eternal (unending) punishment, but those who are righteous and in right standing with God [will go, by His remarkable grace] into eternal (unending) life.” Matthew 25:46 The false prophet is not the antichrist, the beast is. The Lake of Fire is literally: 8 But as for the cowards and unbelieving and abominable [who are devoid of character and personal integrity and practice or tolerate immorality], and murderers, and sorcerers [with intoxicating drugs], and idolaters and occultists [who practice and teach false religions], and all the liars [who knowingly deceive and twist truth], their part will be in the lake that blazes with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8 Explain that passage in Matthew 25:46 at least that one is not in Revelations and it says the same thing as regards a continual state of torment! Contrary to your rather aloof stance of annihilation! Babylon is not a personality that's wrong application! If we will be true to the passage in question, you wont need to ask this. Already I said there was a great gulf fixed between both places. Besides, http://biblehub.com/strongs/greek/2859.htm shows that the word bosom has a synonym and usage that supports place. Reason! How would angels carry a man to another man's chest!!! The place can be rendered Abraham's bay just as we have a place in the Temple then called Solomon's porch. |
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by bstringz(m): 3:28pm On Apr 20, 2016 |
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by DoctorAlien(m): 3:41pm On Apr 20, 2016 |
Scholar8200: Using this to support your claim of the immortality of the soul is wrong! Now, consider this verse: "Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire" Jude 7. It is quite obvious that Sodom is not still burning today. The Dead Sea rolls over the place where those ancient cities once stood. Yet the Bible says that Sodom burned with an "eternal" fire. What does that mean? Eternal fire, as applied to Sodom above, refers to a fire that cannot be quenched till it has accomplished it's purpose of complete destruction. 1 Like |
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by Scholar8200(m): 3:57pm On Apr 20, 2016 |
DoctorAlien:That passage speaks not of the place where once stood Sodom and Gomorrah but the people, God did not judge the place and properties but the people: just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the adjacent cities, since they in the same way as these angels indulged in gross immoral freedom and unnatural vice and sensual perversity. They are exhibited [in plain sight] as an example in undergoing the punishment of everlasting fire Jude 7 In fact this passage underscores the immortality of the soul since it speaks of the people so destroyed as currently undergoing judgement. |
Re: How Can Jesus Give Everlasting Life To Immortal Beings? by DoctorAlien(m): 4:01pm On Apr 20, 2016 |
Scholar8200: The "Continual state of torment" doctrine is completely unbiblical. The word "eternal" as Jesus uses it there means that the punishment which sinners will suffer will be their final, total and complete end. (See Jude 7). It doesn't mean that sinners will be alive forever in hell burning. Meanwhile, if sinners will be in hell be alive forever in hell burning, doesn't that negate the Bible teaching that only the righteous ones will live forever? If sinners are alive forever burning, that means they have eternal life too, just that they spend theirs in a place different from where the righteous people spend theirs. But the Bible is clear that only the righteous ones will live forever with GOD. So, the "unending torment" doctrine is totally unbiblical. 2 Likes |
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